Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
Aim
Banned
Posts: 761
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:06 am
Contact:

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Aim » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:47 pm

jjgp1112 wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:36 pm I don't know why anybody at this stage would just expect the human race to properly police themselves.
What does this even mean

User avatar
SuperSaiyaManZ94
I Live Here
Posts: 2712
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:01 pm
Location: Alabama, USA

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:58 pm

Ok, all the politics/economics/society/whatever made my head spin. I mean i get that discussions in threads go off topic to other discussions sometimes but seriously what does any of what was posted on the last few pages have anything to do with this topic specifically?

Honest question here because color me confused. :?:
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

User avatar
Aim
Banned
Posts: 761
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:06 am
Contact:

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Aim » Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:48 am

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:58 pm Ok, all the politics/economics/society/whatever made my head spin. I mean i get that discussions in threads go off topic to other discussions sometimes but seriously what does any of what was posted on the last few pages have anything to do with this topic specifically?

Honest question here because color me confused. :?:
It ties in I guess in the way that society wouldn’t have to worry about some of these problems if it were built differently and didn’t promote bad behaviour.

User avatar
Shaddy
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1612
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Shaddy » Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:52 am

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:58 pm Ok, all the politics/economics/society/whatever made my head spin. I mean i get that discussions in threads go off topic to other discussions sometimes but seriously what does any of what was posted on the last few pages have anything to do with this topic specifically?

Honest question here because color me confused. :?:
Well, I had a big hand in the problem, so I might as well lay it out. The line of reasoning was basically that Dragon Ball contains misogyny -> a Women's group took issue with that -> Women's groups tend to operate on feminist theory -> polyphase says "feminism can go too far" and cites a bad example -> I say he's full of shit, prompting him to do more of that -> I am addicted to dumb internet discourse and keep responding.

Other people have contributed good and bad things, but I think polyphase and I are responsible for the core feedback loop keeping the socioeconomic arguments going. And yes, this is all supremely off-topic and has far outlived the usefulness of discussion potential of this thread.

But what can I say, for some inexplicable reason I just can't help but be a bit perturbed when I'm arbitrarily equated to straw-misandrist propaganda or genocidal anti-worker conservative dictatorships on completely fabricated and dishonest bases.

User avatar
Kunzait_83
I Live Here
Posts: 2974
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:19 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Kunzait_83 » Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:03 pm

Shaddy wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:52 am
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:58 pm Ok, all the politics/economics/society/whatever made my head spin. I mean i get that discussions in threads go off topic to other discussions sometimes but seriously what does any of what was posted on the last few pages have anything to do with this topic specifically?

Honest question here because color me confused. :?:
Well, I had a big hand in the problem, so I might as well lay it out. The line of reasoning was basically that Dragon Ball contains misogyny -> a Women's group took issue with that -> Women's groups tend to operate on feminist theory -> polyphase says "feminism can go too far" and cites a bad example -> I say he's full of shit, prompting him to do more of that -> I am addicted to dumb internet discourse and keep responding.

Other people have contributed good and bad things, but I think polyphase and I are responsible for the core feedback loop keeping the socioeconomic arguments going. And yes, this is all supremely off-topic and has far outlived the usefulness of discussion potential of this thread.

But what can I say, for some inexplicable reason I just can't help but be a bit perturbed when I'm arbitrarily equated to straw-misandrist propaganda or genocidal anti-worker conservative dictatorships on completely fabricated and dishonest bases.
That's a good, solid rundown of the trajectory of this thread.

For my part in it, here's where I stand on these political topics coming up on here:

I've had more than enough experience on not just the forums, but also "behind the scenes" with a whole ton of notable members here over the years (literally roughly 15 years now: fuck me, where does the time go? :crazy: ) to know that there has long always been a massive, massive broader-ranging issue with a vast bulk of this community often being made up of completely sheltered, insulated people ("manchildren" would be the less kind way of putting it) who have gone well far out of their way across all these years that this forum's been around to completely shield themselves about a VAST array of just... incredibly basic facts of reality and basic-most recent history regarding the real world in a very, very broad sense.

This total lack of basic intellectual curiosity about real world events and basic societal dynamics has directly contributed to a TON of folks here (as with tons of other online nerd spaces) becoming increasingly susceptible to radicalization from far right wing groups that have been infiltrating online nerd spaces exactly like this one for the better part of the last decade or so now and who have been directly preying on these people's total, abject ignorance about real world events to spoonfeed them mind-warping bullshit.

And this was a problem (that of massively self-imposed sheltering and insulation from basic reality, of an almost Hikikomori-esque level across a BROAD swath of this community, and others like it) that I'd encountered on here - and once again, in tons of other similar online groups and communities - and that I'd been deeply alarmed by going back to WELL some years prior to the whole Gamergate/alt-right/Redpill/MAGA fiasco that marked the whole second half of the 2010s. This is a problem I'd been gravely concerned about and had been discussing (largely off the forums among other members) going back to the mid/late 2000s now.

Its not even just so much of the core userbase of this place being made up of self-sheltering individuals, it also continually ATTRACTS a lot of those types, because so many people of that persuasion have made up such a VAST bulk of internet nerd culture, particularly increasingly since the early/mid 2000s.

At this point, I *immensely* regret not having made my concerns with this stuff more open and public on here going back YEARS and years ago: so now, I generally tend to encourage nudging more people in nerd communities like this one toward getting the fuck outside of their self-imposed little internet nerd bubble and actually... just get exposed to the real fucking world more.

I'm obviously not going to go around and make a whole bunch of offtopic threads on here of course (there MIGHT be one such thread that I might make in the Community Discussion forum at some point down the line: but we'll see about that): rather though, when these topics come up in the natural course of DB discussion on here, I'm not going to in any way dissuade them from happening and would rather instead further ENCOURAGE people on here to broaden their scope of interests and intellectual focus well far beyond and outside of children's cartoons and media, or whatever else they're engaging with online that coddles and flatters their pre-existing biases.

Which is something that SHOULD'VE been happening on here since well more than a decade ago now.

Basically, whenever real life politics and world events does come up in the natural course of discussing DB's real-world adjacent topics, I'm going to simply further double down on stressing to people here that they should look much, much more deeply into these topics (via actually credible sources of info) and not just blindly accept what other neckbeardy Otaku-types in similar-such nerd spaces are telling them about this stuff (that they're likely just getting off of /pol/ or from other reactionaries on Youtube and the like), and will provide - to the best that I can at least - as much actual concrete information and historical context as I can to back up whatever it is that we happen to be talking about.

In essence, I think that the attitude of "I'm so sick of politics, I just don't want to think about it and just want to talk about anime!" is EXACTLY wrong and has been actually contributing to/helping this problem right along: because honestly, 9 times out of 10, the people who most often express that sentiment tend to often be EXACTLY the sorts of people who have almost NEVER engaged with any discourse or thinking about real world topics for most of their lives in the first place and who usually just actively avoid all of it fairly consistently: in no small part by burying themselves in a protective cocoon of children's schlock 24/7.

That cocoon should be and needs to be broken. So tough shit: the real world isn't going away just because you want it to. You're gonna have to deal with it at SOME point whether you like it or not. So no more "safe spaces" where you can just come to burry yourself in cartoon nostalgia all day, every day: when real world topics come up, they SHOULD BE engaged with, particularly by exactly the sorts of people who have engaged with them the least, and I don't see ANY benefit in further encouraging more people in places like this to just keep themselves further distracted from them: especially since such a vast chunk of people in communities like this have already been actively avoiding engaging in learning about the basic real world around them for so many years of their adult lives thus far anyhow.

I've watched this play out in front of me in real time (with Kanz here acting as a microcosm example of what's been happening more broadly in online nerd communities overall) over the past 15 years now, and I've seen and experienced MORE than enough of it to have at least a baseline understanding of what's NOT helping matters any. And so many people in these communities trying to just continually ignore reality outside their computer monitor and stay comfortably shielded inside their little kids' cartoon world has been the EXACT diametric opposite of helpful.
http://80s90sdragonballart.tumblr.com/

Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 16503
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:20 pm

I blame neoliberalism and Thatcher-ism. The idea that we don't have a duty to society mixed in with stripping away many of our financial securities has made helping one another a foreign idea to a lot of people, especially those with less privilege, and as a result we're seeing grown-ups struggle to interact.

Disabilities and trauma forcing people to fall back into nasty habits don't help, either.
She/Her💕 💜 💙
progesterone princess, estradiol empress
Lucifer's bimbo daughter

User avatar
Demon Prince Piccolo
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 911
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:34 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:32 pm

@Kunzait_83 I will say it's at least encouraging that discussions like this can happen here at all within a Dragon Ball community, and while it may have gone off course, the points were relevant to the topic at large, I think. I can't imagine having this conversation in modern Star Wars fan communities. And I'm not the biggest fan of the new content other than Rogue One, Mandalorian, and Visions, but the far right wing nonsense and conspiracy theories among the "neckbeard" types of that group are insane.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 16503
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:34 pm

The utter cesspool of loud misogyny and racism brewing in Star Wars and Star Trek fandom in modern times is pretty indicative of just how bad things are. I'm not a part of those fandoms but as I think about it I realize that the outsider perspective shines a light on just how bad DB and anime fandom also has it. The rampant racism, misogyny, homophobia and transphobia are a bit more apparent in other corners of the fandom than here but its still a big issue.

A lack of desire to be critical of the media we consume is a nasty issue and part of why I've tried to nudge my posts to being higher-quality by including media critique beyond dumb shit like power levels.
She/Her💕 💜 💙
progesterone princess, estradiol empress
Lucifer's bimbo daughter

User avatar
Lord Exor
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 317
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:54 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Lord Exor » Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:40 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:03 pm
Shaddy wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:52 am
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:58 pm Ok, all the politics/economics/society/whatever made my head spin. I mean i get that discussions in threads go off topic to other discussions sometimes but seriously what does any of what was posted on the last few pages have anything to do with this topic specifically?

Honest question here because color me confused. :?:
Well, I had a big hand in the problem, so I might as well lay it out. The line of reasoning was basically that Dragon Ball contains misogyny -> a Women's group took issue with that -> Women's groups tend to operate on feminist theory -> polyphase says "feminism can go too far" and cites a bad example -> I say he's full of shit, prompting him to do more of that -> I am addicted to dumb internet discourse and keep responding.

Other people have contributed good and bad things, but I think polyphase and I are responsible for the core feedback loop keeping the socioeconomic arguments going. And yes, this is all supremely off-topic and has far outlived the usefulness of discussion potential of this thread.

But what can I say, for some inexplicable reason I just can't help but be a bit perturbed when I'm arbitrarily equated to straw-misandrist propaganda or genocidal anti-worker conservative dictatorships on completely fabricated and dishonest bases.
That's a good, solid rundown of the trajectory of this thread.

For my part in it, here's where I stand on these political topics coming up on here:

I've had more than enough experience on not just the forums, but also "behind the scenes" with a whole ton of notable members here over the years (literally roughly 15 years now: fuck me, where does the time go? :crazy: ) to know that there has long always been a massive, massive broader-ranging issue with a vast bulk of this community often being made up of completely sheltered, insulated people ("manchildren" would be the less kind way of putting it) who have gone well far out of their way across all these years that this forum's been around to completely shield themselves about a VAST array of just... incredibly basic facts of reality and basic-most recent history regarding the real world in a very, very broad sense.

This total lack of basic intellectual curiosity about real world events and basic societal dynamics has directly contributed to a TON of folks here (as with tons of other online nerd spaces) becoming increasingly susceptible to radicalization from far right wing groups that have been infiltrating online nerd spaces exactly like this one for the better part of the last decade or so now and who have been directly preying on these people's total, abject ignorance about real world events to spoonfeed them mind-warping bullshit.

And this was a problem (that of massively self-imposed sheltering and insulation from basic reality, of an almost Hikikomori-esque level across a BROAD swath of this community, and others like it) that I'd encountered on here - and once again, in tons of other similar online groups and communities - and that I'd been deeply alarmed by going back to WELL some years prior to the whole Gamergate/alt-right/Redpill/MAGA fiasco that marked the whole second half of the 2010s. This is a problem I'd been gravely concerned about and had been discussing (largely off the forums among other members) going back to the mid/late 2000s now.

Its not even just so much of the core userbase of this place being made up of self-sheltering individuals, it also continually ATTRACTS a lot of those types, because so many people of that persuasion have made up such a VAST bulk of internet nerd culture, particularly increasingly since the early/mid 2000s.

At this point, I *immensely* regret not having made my concerns with this stuff more open and public on here going back YEARS and years ago: so now, I generally tend to encourage nudging more people in nerd communities like this one toward getting the fuck outside of their self-imposed little internet nerd bubble and actually... just get exposed to the real fucking world more.

I'm obviously not going to go around and make a whole bunch of offtopic threads on here of course (there MIGHT be one such thread that I might make in the Community Discussion forum at some point down the line: but we'll see about that): rather though, when these topics come up in the natural course of DB discussion on here, I'm not going to in any way dissuade them from happening and would rather instead further ENCOURAGE people on here to broaden their scope of interests and intellectual focus well far beyond and outside of children's cartoons and media, or whatever else they're engaging with online that coddles and flatters their pre-existing biases.

Which is something that SHOULD'VE been happening on here since well more than a decade ago now.

Basically, whenever real life politics and world events does come up in the natural course of discussing DB's real-world adjacent topics, I'm going to simply further double down on stressing to people here that they should look much, much more deeply into these topics (via actually credible sources of info) and not just blindly accept what other neckbeardy Otaku-types in similar-such nerd spaces are telling them about this stuff (that they're likely just getting off of /pol/ or from other reactionaries on Youtube and the like), and will provide - to the best that I can at least - as much actual concrete information and historical context as I can to back up whatever it is that we happen to be talking about.

In essence, I think that the attitude of "I'm so sick of politics, I just don't want to think about it and just want to talk about anime!" is EXACTLY wrong and has been actually contributing to/helping this problem right along: because honestly, 9 times out of 10, the people who most often express that sentiment tend to often be EXACTLY the sorts of people who have almost NEVER engaged with any discourse or thinking about real world topics for most of their lives in the first place and who usually just actively avoid all of it fairly consistently: in no small part by burying themselves in a protective cocoon of children's schlock 24/7.

That cocoon should be and needs to be broken. So tough shit: the real world isn't going away just because you want it to. You're gonna have to deal with it at SOME point whether you like it or not. So no more "safe spaces" where you can just come to burry yourself in cartoon nostalgia all day, every day: when real world topics come up, they SHOULD BE engaged with, particularly by exactly the sorts of people who have engaged with them the least, and I don't see ANY benefit in further encouraging more people in places like this to just keep themselves further distracted from them: especially since such a vast chunk of people in communities like this have already been actively avoiding engaging in learning about the basic real world around them for so many years of their adult lives thus far anyhow.

I've watched this play out in front of me in real time (with Kanz here acting as a microcosm example of what's been happening more broadly in online nerd communities overall) over the past 15 years now, and I've seen and experienced MORE than enough of it to have at least a baseline understanding of what's NOT helping matters any. And so many people in these communities trying to just continually ignore reality outside their computer monitor and stay comfortably shielded inside their little kids' cartoon world has been the EXACT diametric opposite of helpful.
You know what's diametrically opposed to helpful? Posting on a forum about a little kids' cartoon rather than directly participating in the political accountability and activism you seem to be a proponent of. Pontificating on a website about Dragon Ball isn't contributing toward making the changes you want to see in the world. Instead of doing that, you could be attending a protest or running for office. Perhaps you could even inculcate our youth with ideology through higher education? I dunno, anything but waste your time interacting with the so-called puerile philistines you apparently despise.
"My dear friend, how can I make this even more painful for you? I could crush your hands, rip off both of your ears, or maybe I'll just smash in your tiny little cranium. Ehehehehehehehe."
—Frieza

"Alright big guy, whatever turns you on."
—Frieza

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6201
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:48 pm

Lord Exor wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:40 pm
You know what's diametrically opposed to helpful? Posting on a forum about a little kids' cartoon rather than directly participating in the political accountability and activism you seem to be a proponent of. Pontificating on a website about Dragon Ball isn't contributing toward making the changes you want to see in the world. Instead of doing that, you could be attending a protest or running for office. Perhaps you could even inculcate our youth with ideology through higher education? I dunno, anything but waste your time interacting with the so-called puerile philistines you apparently despise.
Damn good point. It’s not like people can do more than one thing in their life. If someone is posting on an internet forum they can’t possibly be doing anything in their real life like doing outreach work or protesting. What a rock solid argument you have made my good sir!

User avatar
PurestEvil
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1948
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:34 pm
Location: Constantinopolee!

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by PurestEvil » Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:51 pm

Lord Exor wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:40 pm You know what's diametrically opposed to helpful? Posting on a forum about a little kids' cartoon rather than directly participating in the political accountability and activism you seem to be a proponent of. Pontificating on a website about Dragon Ball isn't contributing toward making the changes you want to see in the world. Instead of doing that, you could be attending a protest or running for office. Perhaps you could even inculcate our youth with ideology through higher education? I dunno, anything but waste your time interacting with the so-called puerile philistines you apparently despise.
What a fallacious argument. He has a real life and more personal issues to deal with, you can't expect everyone who complains about the detrimental aspects of modern politics to become activists at the drop of a hat.
This post was brought to you by 魔族

Rest in Peace, Toriyama-san

User avatar
Lord Exor
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 317
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:54 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Lord Exor » Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:08 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:48 pm
Lord Exor wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:40 pm
You know what's diametrically opposed to helpful? Posting on a forum about a little kids' cartoon rather than directly participating in the political accountability and activism you seem to be a proponent of. Pontificating on a website about Dragon Ball isn't contributing toward making the changes you want to see in the world. Instead of doing that, you could be attending a protest or running for office. Perhaps you could even inculcate our youth with ideology through higher education? I dunno, anything but waste your time interacting with the so-called puerile philistines you apparently despise.
Damn good point. It’s not like people can do more than one thing in their life. If someone is posting on an internet forum they can’t possibly be doing anything in their real life like doing outreach work or protesting. What a rock solid argument you have made my good sir!
Posting on an Internet forum emblematic of Kunzait's long-standing critique of the alleged infantilization of Western culture. His indulgent diatribes serve no function and his posts are devoid of joy. He spends a hefty amount of time drafting scathing screeds ironically condemning the very focus of the platform he partakes in. What for? To what end? Who is being convinced?

You want to effect change? Spend this time compiling an academic paper. Write an op ed. Spread the word to a broader audience, one that may be more receptive to this sort of criticism. What are you doing coming back here day in and day out?
"My dear friend, how can I make this even more painful for you? I could crush your hands, rip off both of your ears, or maybe I'll just smash in your tiny little cranium. Ehehehehehehehe."
—Frieza

"Alright big guy, whatever turns you on."
—Frieza

kemuri07
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1005
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:09 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by kemuri07 » Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:13 pm

YEET I SAY. YEET!!! INTO THE SUN!!!


Activism is no doubt a public good that everyone should be encouraged to do whenever they can. But the realties of life makes that rather difficult, particularly if you have a job, or children, or dealing with day-to-day pressures of life.

What is detrimental is people stomping out any and all arguments that go beyond I LIKE CARTOON CAUSE IT GO BOOMHA HA, because I think things like this would be helpful. Unfortunately we currently are in a never ending culture war so talking about socialism and feminism is spoooooky. I think there's a lot to be gained of people discussing these things; yes, even on a forum for a Japanese cartoon. I've said this before: a lot of us are older and dealing with shit beyond that of an anime, and I've long since held that people having increasingly gone off topic because there's only so many times a person can make a thread about fucking power levels.

Honestly, these things tend to happen in anime and video games because for certain people, they are meant to be an escape from a cruel world. I'd also argue that these things, particularly in the past, often held populist/conservative view points that maintained the status quo. Once people started questioning that, people get their panties in a bunch and start crying and whining about Cancel Culture and censorship, and no doubt a bunch of words they've only heard on a Joe Rogan podcast.
You want to effect change? Spend this time compiling an academic paper. Write an op ed. Spread the word to a broader audience, one that may be more receptive to this sort of criticism. What are you doing coming back here day in and day out?

Image

Ain't no safe spaces in here, cuz.
Last edited by kemuri07 on Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Kunzait_83
I Live Here
Posts: 2974
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:19 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Kunzait_83 » Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:15 pm

Lord Exor wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:40 pmYou know what's diametrically opposed to helpful? Posting on a forum about a little kids' cartoon rather than directly participating in the political accountability and activism you seem to be a proponent of. Pontificating on a website about Dragon Ball isn't contributing toward making the changes you want to see in the world. Instead of doing that, you could be attending a protest or running for office. Perhaps you could even inculcate our youth with ideology through higher education?
Uh... actually I do BOTH of these things simultaneously believe it or not.

Look at my join date, and look at my post count dude. This is actually a very solidly tangible reason for why my post count on here is still sitting at less than 3000, despite my being here literally from almost the very-most beginning of this forum's existence more than 15 years ago (while people who are here for less than a year quickly rack up tens upon tens of thousands of posts in extremely short order). Its also why literally whole months (sometimes *years*) have fallen off the calendar without so much as a peep from me on here.

Its because I'm a 37 year old grown-ass man. I not only have a life outside of this place, but I also... wait for it... I also spend most of my day to day time doing real world political work and activism within my home state, rather than just post on here constantly. :shock: :o

Holy shit! But... but how is it that I somehow manage to juggle all of that work and responsibility with the all of ten to fifteen fucking minutes (at most) out of my day that it takes for me to throw up a post on here once every few weeks/months or so?

You mean its possible for someone to both walk AND chew gum at the same time?! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

But yes, in real life I've been working with (and from time to time, even helping to lead/co-chair) a local political action committee that's largely focused on passing anti-bribery legislation, and I also do tons of volunteer work with a number of other activist orgs, both locally as well as nationally.

One such org I'd even mentioned earlier in this very thread here, which was devoted to deconverting and helping deradicalize former alt-right/Neo Nazis and helping them reacclimate themselves to life outside of hate movements. Which... is a LOT of painstaking work that is in no way at all remotely easy and takes a genuine mental and emotional toll on you. And I put quite a few years into that job, and like I said, even though I haven't been working there since the start of Covid, I'm still in active contact with a good majority of the former alt-righters that I've worked with helping there and still take time whenever I can to try and help them with things that they're still struggling with.

And as it happens, a good number of the former Nazis I've worked with trying to help rehabilitate at that collective were in many cases people who were in NO WAY all that dissimilar to a lot of the folks who've been active members of this forum for a good many, many years now.

A lot of their stories of how they first got indoctrinated and fell into those groups... many of those people could've EASILY been any number of you folks, based on their back history and the overall trajectory of how they were first indoctrinated. So you might imagine then why it might kind of hit close to home for me when I see no small number of people in this very community sometimes regurgitating a lot of the same toxic garbage talking points that a lot of former alt-right guys I've worked with had genuinely been lead to believe in for years.

Lord Exor wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:40 pmI dunno, anything but waste your time interacting with the so-called puerile philistines you apparently despise.
You know what's funny about this? If I "despised" you guys or regarded you all here as "puerile philistines" (who the fuck even THINKS in those terms, much less talk that way?)... then why exactly would I be on here AT ALL interacting with you guys in ANY way, much less trying at times to actively HELP people here better understand these issues?

If I held the level of contempt and distain for folks here that you're claiming... you know what I wouldn't be doing? Spending ANY time on here AT ALL whatsoever. I'd be loooooooong gone, and you'd never, ever hear a peep from me ever again. I don't typically make a point of going out of my way to hang around people whom I loathe and despise, much less expend energy and effort trying to HELP them in any way. Most people don't generally.

So why exactly would someone, including me, bother spending my valuable 37 year old adult time trying to help IMPROVE people's knowledge and broaden their understanding in a place like this? Why would I even care about it at all one way or the other?

Its almost like.... its almost like I actually, genuinely give a crap about other people's wellbeing, including those who post on here. Its almost like it actually matters to me whether or not a bunch of very young adults/kids are withering away in their basements and letting themselves get indoctrinated into far right hate cults, whether or not I know or are close to them IRL. Its almost like other human beings, regardless of their immediate physical proximity to me and regardless on whether or not they agree with me on everything, actually MATTER to me.

But NO, surely THAT can't be it, right? I'm just completely wasting my time trying to help explain complex, important issues to people who clearly don't have a very good grasp on them and/or have been mislead because I actively loathe and disdain them and look down my nose at them. Yeah that makes VASTLY more sense, clearly. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Last edited by Kunzait_83 on Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
http://80s90sdragonballart.tumblr.com/

Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

kemuri07
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1005
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:09 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by kemuri07 » Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:18 pm

Image

User avatar
PurestEvil
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1948
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:34 pm
Location: Constantinopolee!

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by PurestEvil » Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:19 pm

Lord Exor wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:08 pm Posting on an Internet forum emblematic of Kunzait's long-standing critique of the alleged infantilization of Western culture. His indulgent diatribes serve no function and his posts are devoid of joy. He spends a hefty amount of time drafting scathing screeds ironically condemning the very focus of the platform he partakes in. What for? To what end? Who is being convinced?

You want to effect change? Spend this time compiling an academic paper. Write an op ed. Spread the word to a broader audience, one that may be more receptive to this sort of criticism. What are you doing coming back here day in and day out?
Okay, why don't you write an academic literary analysis about these supposed lazy slackers who make joyless diatribes and how they are detrimental to progressive activism?
Though, to be honest, it seems like you don't actually care about progressive activism in the first place.
This post was brought to you by 魔族

Rest in Peace, Toriyama-san

User avatar
PurestEvil
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1948
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:34 pm
Location: Constantinopolee!

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by PurestEvil » Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:24 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:15 pm shkkkk
Wow, man. I must give my praise to you for fighting the good fight. Thank you for working to make our country a better place! :clap:
This post was brought to you by 魔族

Rest in Peace, Toriyama-san

User avatar
VegettoEX
Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
Posts: 17541
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:10 pm
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by VegettoEX » Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:20 pm

To an earlier point, I welcome the external criticism of "KANZENSHUU IS ALL POLITICS NOWADAYS". Goddamn, did anyone look at the Usenet posts I recently shared? Anime fandom as a whole, nevermind within Dragon Ball itself, is a self-repeating cycle of the same conversions year after year with churning groups of new people. You could rather easily (and probably should?!) make a robot version of me that just tells the same four or five historical context stories, since I've been answering those same questions every other week for a couple decades now.
Lord Exor wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:40 pm You know what's diametrically opposed to helpful? Posting on a forum about a little kids' cartoon rather than directly participating in the political accountability and activism you seem to be a proponent of. Pontificating on a website about Dragon Ball isn't contributing toward making the changes you want to see in the world. Instead of doing that, you could be attending a protest or running for office. Perhaps you could even inculcate our youth with ideology through higher education? I dunno, anything but waste your time interacting with the so-called puerile philistines you apparently despise.
Just want to add on that, while I don't have anything substantive to add that hasn't already been said, it's worth noting from an administrative perspective that this is 100% absolutely itself purposefully disingenuous performative bullshit.

Wild that we can do multiple things in our lives and that we don't share intimate details of each part of it, huh?
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::

User avatar
HokutoNanto519
Newbie
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:53 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by HokutoNanto519 » Sat Oct 09, 2021 7:42 am

It was long overdue that said character got taken to task, let's not kid ourselves. Still, cancelling the entire fucking thing now strikes me as wack. They really didn't check/censor the material they air before they goddamned aired it? After all this time? Unbelievable.
"When all these bland Marvel Comics franchise movies blur together in memory, it won't prove that they amounted to one great epic master narrative, but that they're all indistinguishable". - Armond White on "Captain America: The First Avenger," 2011.

User avatar
PurestEvil
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1948
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:34 pm
Location: Constantinopolee!

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by PurestEvil » Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:05 am

HokutoNanto519 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 7:42 am It was long overdue that said character got taken to task, let's not kid ourselves. Still, cancelling the entire fucking thing now strikes me as wack. They really didn't check/censor the material they air before they goddamned aired it? After all this time? Unbelievable.
ONCE AGAIN:
They. Temporarily. Pulled. The. Show. To. Edit. Bad. Parts. Out. They. Are. Not. Cancelling. It. Completely.
This post was brought to you by 魔族

Rest in Peace, Toriyama-san

Locked