Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:32 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:44 pm I never said that the TERF arguments made sense or were correct. I was just stating what their perspective was, according to what they say.

As for conservatives making the 'predators in bathrooms' argument, I think they mostly know that's false and just use it as a mask for their bigotry, because they are not consistently against sex abuse and harassment (see how they so often defend sex offenders and institutions like the Catholic church). They don't actually care about women being harassed or raped, they just pretend to in order to hate on trans people.

TERFs, on the other hand, seem to genuinely believe that this is an issue and that cis women are in danger from it. Of course they're wrong, and they will use motivated reasoning to dismiss the evidence that shows them to be wrong, but they actually believe that the safety of women is their primary goal.

J.K. Rowling is a TERF and if you read through many of the things she has said on the subject, she certainly doesn't come off as right-wing at all (although she has aligned and agreed with the right on the transphobia bandwagon, which is an example of the horseshoe effect I talked about). Her arguments are just as bad and illogical as the right wing arguments, but they're coming from a different direction entirely.

TERFs also often hold extreme radical feminist views in other areas, like claiming that men can't be raped, which is definitely not something a right wing reactionary would say.

Basically my point is that if you drift too far in either direction you get really nasty views and behavior, and a lot of it is similar. I used the examples of Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia before. They were complete ideological enemies, but look at what they had in common:

- The government/leaders had absolute power and the citizens had no say
- Criticizing the government was illegal and could get you arrested or killed
- They would kill their own people en masse and on purpose
- State-run media filled with propaganda was the only news source
And with that your argument just lost all meaning.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by PurestEvil » Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:51 pm

goku the krump dancer wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:31 pm Shk
Are there any readers’ age statistics from the 80s/90s during the original run of the manga?
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:54 pm

Cure Dragon 255 wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:32 pm
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:44 pm I never said that the TERF arguments made sense or were correct. I was just stating what their perspective was, according to what they say.

As for conservatives making the 'predators in bathrooms' argument, I think they mostly know that's false and just use it as a mask for their bigotry, because they are not consistently against sex abuse and harassment (see how they so often defend sex offenders and institutions like the Catholic church). They don't actually care about women being harassed or raped, they just pretend to in order to hate on trans people.

TERFs, on the other hand, seem to genuinely believe that this is an issue and that cis women are in danger from it. Of course they're wrong, and they will use motivated reasoning to dismiss the evidence that shows them to be wrong, but they actually believe that the safety of women is their primary goal.

J.K. Rowling is a TERF and if you read through many of the things she has said on the subject, she certainly doesn't come off as right-wing at all (although she has aligned and agreed with the right on the transphobia bandwagon, which is an example of the horseshoe effect I talked about). Her arguments are just as bad and illogical as the right wing arguments, but they're coming from a different direction entirely.

TERFs also often hold extreme radical feminist views in other areas, like claiming that men can't be raped, which is definitely not something a right wing reactionary would say.

Basically my point is that if you drift too far in either direction you get really nasty views and behavior, and a lot of it is similar. I used the examples of Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia before. They were complete ideological enemies, but look at what they had in common:

- The government/leaders had absolute power and the citizens had no say
- Criticizing the government was illegal and could get you arrested or killed
- They would kill their own people en masse and on purpose
- State-run media filled with propaganda was the only news source
And with that your argument just lost all meaning.
Believe it or not, there are people who make that claim.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Shaddy » Sat Sep 11, 2021 5:45 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:44 pm I never said that the TERF arguments made sense or were correct. I was just stating what their perspective was, according to what they say.
Yes, and I am telling you that they're lying pieces of shit. You shouldn't be taking them at their words.
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:44 pm As for conservatives making the 'predators in bathrooms' argument, I think they mostly know that's false and just use it as a mask for their bigotry, because they are not consistently against sex abuse and harassment (see how they so often defend sex offenders and institutions like the Catholic church). They don't actually care about women being harassed or raped, they just pretend to in order to hate on trans people.
And terfs are any different? They condone and participate in the constant harassment of trans people and anyone who vocally defends against this.
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:44 pm TERFs, on the other hand, seem to genuinely believe that this is an issue and that cis women are in danger from it. Of course they're wrong, and they will use motivated reasoning to dismiss the evidence that shows them to be wrong, but they actually believe that the safety of women is their primary goal.
No they don't. If you believe in the safety of women, you believe in the safety of trans women.
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:44 pm J.K. Rowling is a TERF and if you read through many of the things she has said on the subject, she certainly doesn't come off as right-wing at all
Yes she does.
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:44 pm(although she has aligned and agreed with the right on the transphobia bandwagon, which is an example of the horseshoe effect I talked about). Her arguments are just as bad and illogical as the right wing arguments, but they're coming from a different direction entirely.
Fucking how? She's not even left. She's a billionaire capitalist whose claim to progressive fame was not writing a gay character as gay. She retweets antisemites claiming trans people are a conspiracy by the jews. She wrote a whole book series where the main character learns about all the systemic injustice in society, and then ignores it to become a wizard cop.
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:44 pm TERFs also often hold extreme radical feminist views in other areas, like claiming that men can't be raped
That's not a feminist view.
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:44 pm which is definitely not something a right wing reactionary would say.
It most certainly is. "Sexual conquest" is romanticized by the toxic-masculine right. Any sex a man gets is perceived as good for him, and any man that complains or dares to have feelings is showing weakness.
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:44 pm Basically my point is that if you drift too far in either direction you get really nasty views and behavior, and a lot of it is similar. I used the examples of Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia before. They were complete ideological enemies, but look at what they had in common:

- The government/leaders had absolute power and the citizens had no say
- Criticizing the government was illegal and could get you arrested or killed
- They would kill their own people en masse and on purpose
- State-run media filled with propaganda was the only news source
They were not ideological enemies. They literally had an alliance at one point. State violence, attacking unions, hatred of democracy, propaganda, those things were the ideology. It is not the logical extreme of the people who think racism is bad and want more people to vote. If you say "I am going to build a stateless classless moneyless society" and then do the opposite of that, anyone who says "well this PROVES states, class and money are good" is the one falling for propaganda.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:35 pm

Shaddy wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 5:45 pm
Yes, and I am telling you that they're lying pieces of shit. You shouldn't be taking them at their words.

And terfs are any different? They condone and participate in the constant harassment of trans people and anyone who vocally defends against this.

No they don't. If you believe in the safety of women, you believe in the safety of trans women.
Their whole argument is that trans women aren't women, but men that want to prey on women. They base their worldview on this crazy assumption.
Yes she does.

Fucking how? She's not even left. She's a billionaire capitalist whose claim to progressive fame was not writing a gay character as gay. She retweets antisemites claiming trans people are a conspiracy by the jews. She wrote a whole book series where the main character learns about all the systemic injustice in society, and then ignores it to become a wizard cop.
It struck me while reading some of her rantings, she focuses completely on things like the perceived threat to women, talks about her and her friends being survivors of sexual assault and the trauma they endured from that, expresses support for gays and lesbians, and makes a lot of comments and actions that, in absence of the transphobic element, many right-wingers would probably call 'SJW' or 'leftist', such as her focus to and donation to charities for domestic abuse victims. She was doing stuff like that years before she started with the whole transphobia thing, so I think she is at least genuine in believing in those kinds of causes.

And she doesn't seem to align with the right wing on any other issues other than the transphobia.

In fact, she seems to bizarrely identify 'trans activists' with right-wing misogynists, as shown by this quote:
We’re living through the most misogynistic period I’ve experienced. Back in the 80s, I imagined that my future daughters, should I have any, would have it far better than I ever did, but between the backlash against feminism and a porn-saturated online culture, I believe things have got significantly worse for girls. Never have I seen women denigrated and dehumanised to the extent they are now. From the leader of the free world’s long history of sexual assault accusations and his proud boast of ‘grabbing them by the pussy’, to the incel (‘involuntarily celibate’) movement that rages against women who won’t give them sex, to the trans activists who declare that TERFs need punching and re-educating, men across the political spectrum seem to agree: women are asking for trouble. Everywhere, women are being told to shut up and sit down, or else.
This also dovetails into the anti-porn views I was talking about. Meanwhile, right-wing reactionaries are saying stuff like 'Vic Mignogna is innocent and all of those women were conspiring to ruin his life, Trump is great and not sexist, male-on-female rape and sexual assault rarely happens and isn't a problem, women already have equal rights so modern feminism is unnecessary, these feminists are just getting triggered over nothing and hate men'. I just don't see how these two perspectives can be considered identical, rather than just having a few things in common.
That's not a feminist view.
Certainly not a mainstream feminist view, but I'm talking about extreme fringe wackos.
It most certainly is. "Sexual conquest" is romanticized by the toxic-masculine right. Any sex a man gets is perceived as good for him, and any man that complains or dares to have feelings is showing weakness.
That's, again, the opposite direction of where the wackos I'm talking about are coming from. Another example of the horseshoe effect.
They were not ideological enemies. They literally had an alliance at one point.
An alliance of convenience that Hitler broke.
State violence, attacking unions, hatred of democracy, propaganda, those things were the ideology. It is not the logical extreme of the people who think racism is bad and want more people to vote.
Where did I say anything like that?
If you say "I am going to build a stateless classless moneyless society" and then do the opposite of that, anyone who says "well this PROVES states, class and money are good" is the one falling for propaganda.
History has shown that every attempt at communism has inevitably lead to death, misery, and abuse. Maybe some time in the far future where our technology lets us have a truly post-scarcity society then an 'ideal' communist government could work, but certainly not today.

The issue isn't that a 'stateless, classless, moneyless society' is a bad idea, it's that it can't realistically work. It ignores human nature and how people who gain power creating such a society will inevitably abuse it.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by jjgp1112 » Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:10 pm

Humans basically haven't been playing fair since we lived in caves. While other animals were shooting the fair one with their bare hands, we were using our brains to build tools, gang up on them and eventually become the dominant species in spite of our immense physical disadvantages. It's practically hardwired in humans as a collective society to figure out how to cheat the system. The people who are as rich in intelligence as they are scarce in empathy will always figure out how to screw everyone else over and hide in plain sight. I don't trust communism one bit.

One way or another, humans will figure out a way to bring about their demise. Our greatest gift is our curse.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Aim » Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:39 pm

jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:10 pm Humans basically haven't been playing fair since we lived in caves. While other animals were shooting the fair one with their bare hands, we were using our brains to build tools, gang up on them and eventually become the dominant species in spite of our immense physical disadvantages. It's practically hardwired in humans as a collective society to figure out how to cheat the system. The people who are as rich in intelligence as they are scarce in empathy will always figure out how to screw everyone else over and hide in plain sight. I don't trust communism one bit.

One way or another, humans will figure out a way to bring about their demise. Our greatest gift is our curse.
This is a really pessimistic and to be quite frank ignorant take.

We are shaped by our environment, we have created scarcity and not to mention live in a system that promotes this kind of behavior, it’s in order for us to survive.

Humans would have never gotten this far if it wasn’t for our ability to collectively come together and form bonds. People like Bezo and Musk are apathetic because they feel they have a right to their riches, that they have earned it. No matter how collective you are it is incredibly hard to give up your wealth especially if the system is going to stay the same.

It is in human nature to help one another and thrive, if it wasn’t we’d be dead. We got together and did what’s best for our fellow peoples, this started to change when we developed the concept of money and wealth, and the deserving aspect to life. Under a socialist society needs would be met and there’d be choices to explore, the most freedom a society has ever given its people. In said society it would take time for the Uber wealthy to adjust, but most would, as seeing your community thrive is something that is built in us.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:30 pm

It might be a stretch to call someone like J.K. Rowling rightwing. She seems to disagree with conservatives on pretty much every issue that doesn’t involve trans people. Trump supporters widely regarded her as an obnoxious SJW for years. It was a big meme for a while that she had a tendency to retroactively establish things about the Harry Potter universe in an attempt to seem more progressive. That’s why many people were surprised by her trans comments.

No, that isn’t me defending Rowling. What I’m saying is that ‘rightwing’ can’t simply be used as a catch all term for anyone who happens to have ignorant views. Human beings are unfortunately more complex than that.

To try and cycle this back to Dragon Ball, I imagine that J.K. Rowling would be pretty disgusted by how the series plays sexual assault against women for laughs, which would probably lead to her getting accused of being a “triggered leftist” by grifters like The Quartering.

On another note, I would echo the sentiment that it’s not really human nature to adapt to things like communism or socialism.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by MyVisionity » Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:45 pm

jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:10 pm Humans basically haven't been playing fair since we lived in caves. While other animals were shooting the fair one with their bare hands, we were using our brains to build tools, gang up on them and eventually become the dominant species in spite of our immense physical disadvantages.
Uhh... what? What other animals? Wild animals that people hunt? Gang up on them? Is this pre or post Homo?

It's because of physical advantages that modern humans evolved in the first place. Right along with brain power. And we became the dominant species by a process of adapting and absorption, not by jumping folks.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by fleahop » Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:49 pm

So...how far off topic from Dragon Ball are we allowed to go and how many times do we need to retread the same crap on here?

C'mon. It's a Dragon Ball forum.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:15 am

fleahop wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:49 pm So...how far off topic from Dragon Ball are we allowed to go and how many times do we need to retread the same crap on here?

C'mon. It's a Dragon Ball forum.
It weeds out the rotten apples.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by fleahop » Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:43 am

JulieYBM wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:15 am
fleahop wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:49 pm So...how far off topic from Dragon Ball are we allowed to go and how many times do we need to retread the same crap on here?

C'mon. It's a Dragon Ball forum.
It weeds out the rotten apples.
Idk I'm still around after being banned last time I quoted you. Let's see if I'm still kicking after this one.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:23 am

Ban evader alert lol.
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by fleahop » Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:31 am

Cure Dragon 255 wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:23 am Ban evader alert lol.
Or it was a temp ban
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Shaddy » Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:06 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:35 pm *a lot of nebulous things, really*
You are trying to prove the existence of a caricature of leftism that only exists within the idiom of conservative propaganda.

Let me break this down into the most basic terms I can.

A leftist belief is "unions are good". A conservative belief is "unions are bad".

So when China alleges that it is "communist", and then destroys leftist unionization attempts, why would that mean they're "too far left" instead of just not believing the leftist opinion?

I'm assuming you know better than to say "well, they have 'communist' in their names".

See, I'm here saying "if a leftist practices the exact opposite of everything they claim to believe, they are not meaningfully worth considering a part of the left". The right says "every leftist actually wants what we want, just with blacks on top instead of whites".

There is no part of feminism that includes thinking one gender is inherently inferior. It's not a "fringe".

If you're claiming "both sides are the same", the fact that the left doesn't say "both sides are the same" should be a pretty fucking significant difference to you. We do not think right-wingers secretly want the world to be equal. The closest thing you get is some of us grouping republicans and democrats together because they're both capitalist puppets that love bombing brown people.

If you are treating someone espousing the opposite of leftism as just as legitimate as someone pointing out that it's not leftist, you have already picked a side.
WittyUsername wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:30 pm It might be a stretch to call someone like J.K. Rowling rightwing.
Not really. Fundamentally leftism is anti-capitalist. Centrist liberals are not the same as the far-right, but they are, inevitably, reinforcing the same capitalist hierarchy, and all it brings with it. Even someone like Bernie, who called himself a socialist (a big mistake, really), was not meaningfully planning to dismantle oppressive systems, he just had a lot of nice ideas of how to make the oppression more survivable.
WittyUsername wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:30 pm On another note, I would echo the sentiment that it’s not really human nature to adapt to things like communism or socialism.
What part of working a shitty 9-5 is "natural"? Where does human nature enter into business investments? What part of "nature" requires humans to maintain it without strong efforts to dismantle it?
https://youtu.be/yts2F44RqFw?t=804 wrote: The necessary counter-narrative is to stress that the problems we face are not natural features of the world, that in fact, very little of human life is natural, and even if it were, what is natural is not necessarily what is right. The way nature deals with a pandemic is to let everyone without a genetic resistance to the illness die, and if what's left is not a stable breeding population, you go extinct. That's natural. Humanity as we know it only exists in defiance of nature. Every form of bigotry, every means of oppression, is a thing we created. They are human problems, and they have human solutions. They have not always existed, and there are places in the world where they are being addressed.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 am

fleahop wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:43 am
JulieYBM wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:15 am
fleahop wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:49 pm So...how far off topic from Dragon Ball are we allowed to go and how many times do we need to retread the same crap on here?

C'mon. It's a Dragon Ball forum.
It weeds out the rotten apples.
Idk I'm still around after being banned last time I quoted you. Let's see if I'm still kicking after this one.
I don't remember, sorry? :(
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by goku the krump dancer » Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:04 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:51 pm
goku the krump dancer wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:31 pm Shk
Are there any readers’ age statistics from the 80s/90s during the original run of the manga?
Not that I could find, but I doubt there'd be any significant changes between who reads it the most and who reads it the least.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by WittyUsername » Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:45 pm

I was under the impression that the target demographic for Shonen Jump in Japan was usually boys in the Elementary school range. The idea that it’s actually largely meant to appeal to teenagers seems like a strange concept to me. I mean, yeah, teenagers are still considered kids, but when we refer to things that are specifically meant “for children,”we’re usually talking about the ones who still play with toys, not the ones who watch The Breakfast Club.
Shaddy wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:06 am
What part of working a shitty 9-5 is "natural"? Where does human nature enter into business investments? What part of "nature" requires humans to maintain it without strong efforts to dismantle it?
Human beings love material possessions and the status of being wealthy.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by goku the krump dancer » Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:58 pm

SHFiguarts toys don't sell out because soccer moms are buying them for little Timmy, its the schmucks like us on this forum and various content creators on the interwebs who buy them and I think its a safe bet to say we're all past our middle school years.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:13 pm

There are some toys aimed at kids. But those are only available on places that edited Super for kids like the UK.
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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