What haven't you seen?

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
Grimlock
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8241
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Cybertron.

Re: What haven't you seen?

Post by Grimlock » Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:20 pm

ClutchBangstrip wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:54 pm Like 90% of Heroes. The fact that it ain't "canon" kills it for me.
The fact that there's no canon makes that to be a very senseless reason, actually. I understand the anime, which is very short and there's no time for anything, but the manga and mainly the arcade? C'mon.
Goodbye friend. You are weak, so you must be destroyed!

~ War of the Dinobots ~

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: What haven't you seen?

Post by ABED » Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:49 pm

DB and its anime adaptations have their own canon. I don't know where this whole idea started that it didn't. All canon means is essentially there's a continuity.

As for canon status of any particular product killing it for anyone, all I can say is that I don't understand it. If you like it, why should it bother you if it's not in continuity?

I haven't seen Heroes but the novelty of it sounds somewhat interesting.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
Skar
I Live Here
Posts: 2206
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:04 pm
Location: US

Re: What haven't you seen?

Post by Skar » Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:01 pm

Grimlock wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:20 pmThe fact that there's no canon makes that to be a very senseless reason, actually. I understand the anime, which is very short and there's no time for anything, but the manga and mainly the arcade? C'mon.
To be fair, the arcade game is only released in Japan and the manga is hard to find since you have to go out of your way to find it on "unofficial" manga sites. The anime episodes are all available on YouTube so makes sense it's what most fans would be familiar with. I know there's technically no canon but it's not really part of Toriyama's continuity that does have an official release internationally.

User avatar
Grimlock
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8241
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Cybertron.

Re: What haven't you seen?

Post by Grimlock » Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:40 pm

Then go "out of your way" to find it, that's no excuse. Do whatever it takes or just keep following the arcade thread. If you have a Twitter, it's should be even easier to find it...
Goodbye friend. You are weak, so you must be destroyed!

~ War of the Dinobots ~

User avatar
Skar
I Live Here
Posts: 2206
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:04 pm
Location: US

Re: What haven't you seen?

Post by Skar » Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:58 pm

Grimlock wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:40 pm Then go "out of your way" to find it, that's no excuse. Do whatever it takes or just keep following the arcade thread. If you have a Twitter, it's should be even easier to find it...
Well I've read the Heroes manga or at least the ones that have been translated by fans. Heroes isn't really intended for the overall DB audience and more of a niche audience only within Japan so I could understand that there's still a lot of people who wouldn't be interested in looking for it since it's technically illegal. There were people here who didn't watch DBS until it was available on a legitimate streaming or read the DBS manga until it sold in their country even though those are easier to find online.

User avatar
Yuji
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1107
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:20 pm

Re: What haven't you seen?

Post by Yuji » Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:05 pm

Grimlock wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:40 pm Then go "out of your way" to find it, that's no excuse. Do whatever it takes or just keep following the arcade thread. If you have a Twitter, it's should be even easier to find it...
You're speaking as if fans have a moral obligation to keep up with Heroes. Some fans may not want to peruse works illegally, some fans may not think it is worth the hassle. Nobody is making "excuses" for not following a piece of fiction.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6201
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: What haven't you seen?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:42 pm

Grimlock wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:40 pm Then go "out of your way" to find it, that's no excuse. Do whatever it takes or just keep following the arcade thread. If you have a Twitter, it's should be even easier to find it...
The excuse is everything about Dragon Ball Heroes looks awful

User avatar
Demon Prince Piccolo
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 911
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:34 pm

Re: What haven't you seen?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:44 pm

No one should have to justify not consuming a piece of media to anyone, but Heroes? Yeah, you'll be waiting a looong time if you think I need to watch that lol.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

User avatar
Grimlock
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8241
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Cybertron.

Re: What haven't you seen?

Post by Grimlock » Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:45 pm

Skar wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:58 pmWell I've read the Heroes manga or at least the ones that have been translated by fans. Heroes isn't really intended for the overall DB audience and more of a niche audience only within Japan so I could understand that there's still a lot of people who wouldn't be interested in looking for it since it's technically illegal.
I think you might be referring to Dragon Ball Heroes Victory Mission. That one isn't indeed for everyone, as it basically translates the game itself into manga panels. It's intended for those who play the game and/or at least understand its mechanics (though, needless to say, I'm not talking about the arcade exclusively, Dragon Ball Heroes World Mission, which is available for everyone, is good enough for you to get the gist of Heroes, even if it's telling its own story).

However, Heroes post-2016 is, in a way, for everyone. Its stories aren't tied to the avatars' lore or set in the real world or anything. You just need to wait for the arcade (or manga) to be translated, and the videos where the translations belong to all come from one place.
Yuji wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:05 pmYou're speaking as if fans have a moral obligation to keep up with Heroes.
No, I speak as if fans want to keep up with Heroes, they should just keep up with Heroes. You have three media/continuities, and sticking only to a promotional anime isn't doing any favor to you and to the content itself.
Yuji wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:05 pmSome fans may not want to peruse works illegally, some fans may not think it is worth the hassle. Nobody is making "excuses" for not following a piece of fiction.
I understand those who don't want to do anything illegal, but if that's the case, they shouldn't watch the anime as well to begin with. Or watching the anime, which is officially region locked, is safe/okay for these people? I smell hypocrisy/contradiction here.
MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:42 pm The excuse is everything about Dragon Ball Heroes looks awful
We have to put up with Dragon Ball Super for years now. Trust me, no harm will come in having a bit more of "awfulness".
Goodbye friend. You are weak, so you must be destroyed!

~ War of the Dinobots ~

User avatar
Skar
I Live Here
Posts: 2206
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:04 pm
Location: US

Re: What haven't you seen?

Post by Skar » Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:51 pm

Grimlock wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:45 pmHowever, Heroes post-2016 is, in a way, for everyone. Its stories aren't tied to the avatars' lore or set in the real world or anything. You just need to wait for the arcade (or manga) to be translated, and the videos where the translations belong to all come from one place
That seems more like watching a Let's Play to be honest. Previous video games have had their own stories or what-ifs but that's something you experience as you play the game and not really intended to be viewed independently. It's an option but I can understand why someone wouldn't consider an arcade game as a full fledged story.
I understand those who don't want to do anything illegal, but if that's the case, they shouldn't watch the anime as well to begin with. Or watching the anime, which is officially region locked, is safe/okay for these people? I smell hypocrisy/contradiction here.
I think he meant Heroes in general since some people aren't interesting in watching the episodes either. It's a promotional short anime meant to promote a game that the majority of us can't play. They're also technically illegal but just easier to find since they're available on the biggest video sharing site.

User avatar
Grimlock
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8241
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Cybertron.

Re: What haven't you seen?

Post by Grimlock » Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:55 am

Skar wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:51 pmThat seems more like watching a Let's Play to be honest. Previous video games have had their own stories or what-ifs but that's something you experience as you play the game and not really intended to be viewed independently. It's an option but I can understand why someone wouldn't consider an arcade game as a full fledged story.
Well, Next even does us a favor by showing only the dialogues, he skips the entire fights/play in his videos. So even Japanese players understand that it can be viewed independently, why wouldn't you?

If you don't consider the arcade a full-fledged story, what would that make the anime? Which barely cover half of what's in the arcade?
Skar wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:51 pmI think he meant Heroes in general since some people aren't interesting in watching the episodes either. It's a promotional short anime meant to promote a game that the majority of us can't play. They're also technically illegal but just easier to find since they're available on the biggest video sharing site.
But then he misses the point, ClutchBangstrip said they don't keep up with Heroes because it's "not canon" (though there is no canon to begin with), not "I don't keep up because I don't want to". A reason was "provided" (not quite) for not following it. If they had said the latter, I obviously wouldn't be saying anything, but that isn't the case.
Goodbye friend. You are weak, so you must be destroyed!

~ War of the Dinobots ~

ClutchBangstrip
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 190
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:19 am
Location: Middle America

Re: What haven't you seen?

Post by ClutchBangstrip » Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:38 pm

Grimlock wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:20 pm
ClutchBangstrip wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:54 pm Like 90% of Heroes. The fact that it ain't "canon" kills it for me.
The fact that there's no canon makes that to be a very senseless reason, actually. I understand the anime, which is very short and there's no time for anything, but the manga and mainly the arcade? C'mon.
That's what I mean, mainly, the anime. The fact that it doesn't follow the og manga or anime and the fact that those pieces don't refer to the events of Heroes makes it feel like a waste of time. Also doesn't help that the animation is a bit too stiff, for me.

I also don't like the art and style of the manga and I'm not a gamer in any way. So that adds to it, too.

User avatar
Skar
I Live Here
Posts: 2206
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:04 pm
Location: US

Re: What haven't you seen?

Post by Skar » Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:55 pm

Grimlock wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:55 amWell, Next even does us a favor by showing only the dialogues, he skips the entire fights/play in his videos. So even Japanese players understand that it can be viewed independently, why wouldn't you?
Do you mean Japanese players who have played the game? It's available for anyone to watch but I assume the people most interested in it would be those who have played the arcade game.
If you don't consider the arcade a full-fledged story, what would that make the anime? Which barely cover half of what's in the arcade?
To be honest I assumed they were basically video game cut scenes. It's labeled a promotional anime so I thought it was meant to accompany the game. I don't really have any complaints about it because I'm not the target audience.
But then he misses the point, ClutchBangstrip said they don't keep up with Heroes because it's "not canon" (though there is no canon to begin with), not "I don't keep up because I don't want to". A reason was "provided" (not quite) for not following it. If they had said the latter, I obviously wouldn't be saying anything, but that isn't the case.
I was replying to what Yuji said which wasn't about canon. I read fan comics so I don't mind if something isn't canon or part of Toriyama's continuity. It could be a reason for some people though since he's the original author and they're only interested if he's involved. Part of Broly's success was that he was Toriyama's reboot of the character and not just a different version from Toei.

User avatar
Grimlock
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8241
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Cybertron.

Re: What haven't you seen?

Post by Grimlock » Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:03 pm

ClutchBangstrip wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:38 pmThe fact that it doesn't follow the og manga or anime
Dragon Ball Heroes does follow the anime, some of the characters they are using are from Dragon Ball Super, it takes place after Movie 1 (since Goku and Vegeta know the Metamoru fusion) and such.

(But if an actual sequel to the manga is what you want, then play Dragon Ball Online and take a look at the threads about it here).
ClutchBangstrip wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:38 pmand the fact that those pieces don't refer to the events of Heroes makes it feel like a waste of time.
The original series also doesn't refer to the events of Dragon Ball Super. Shouldn't it be a waste of time too?
Skar wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:55 pmIt's available for anyone to watch but I assume the people most interested in it would be those who have played the arcade game.
A lot of people, even those who don't play it, are interested in it. That's why some of them take the time to translate those dialogues and make them available.
Skar wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:55 pmPart of Broly's success was that he was Toriyama's reboot of the character and not just a different version from Toei.
Weird. Because Toriyama's Broly is just a (slight) different version from Toei's Broly... :think: But I digress.
Goodbye friend. You are weak, so you must be destroyed!

~ War of the Dinobots ~

User avatar
LoganForkHands73
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1358
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:54 pm

Re: What haven't you seen?

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:09 pm

Grimlock wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:03 pm
ClutchBangstrip wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:38 pmThe fact that it doesn't follow the og manga or anime
Dragon Ball Heroes does follow the anime, some of the characters they are using are from Dragon Ball Super, it takes place after Movie 1 (since Goku and Vegeta know the Metamoru fusion) and such.
One issue I have with Heroes is that it's not even close to consistent about this either. The main 'Capsule Corp' Goku and Vegeta of Heroes have ostensibly lead the same lives as the ones as from Super as you say, except Vegeta knows Toei Movie characters like Cooler, then Goku apparently doesn't recognise the Legendary Super Saiyan transformation despite having presumably encountered Kale and Toriyama-Broly before. It's far from Heroes' biggest problem but little things like that don't help with the immersion.

User avatar
Grimlock
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8241
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Cybertron.

Re: What haven't you seen?

Post by Grimlock » Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:39 pm

I agree. But we shouldn't really expect them to pay attention to these details. I don't recall at the moment if such acknowledgement happens in the arcade continuity, but if it does, then it's like I said, we can't expect everything to be perfect.

Dimps should hire their own "Kevin Feige" to maintain consistency and oversee these details. I could be the one! :P
Goodbye friend. You are weak, so you must be destroyed!

~ War of the Dinobots ~

User avatar
Skar
I Live Here
Posts: 2206
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:04 pm
Location: US

Re: What haven't you seen?

Post by Skar » Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:26 pm

Grimlock wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:03 pm(But if an actual sequel to the manga is what you want, then play Dragon Ball Online and take a look at the threads about it here).
I've wanted to try Online before but the only option is an unofficial English version and I'm not sure how many active players it has. I assume it's less than the average MMO that do have official English servers.
A lot of people, even those who don't play it, are interested in it. That's why some of them take the time to translate those dialogues and make them available.
I don't think there's anything wrong with that and it's available for people who are interested. It just seemed like you were questioning why someone wouldn't be interested and I was giving some reasons. To get the full Heroes experience, you have to read the manga illegally and watch video game footage so it's understandable it's too much effort for some people.
Weird. Because Toriyama's Broly is just a (slight) different version from Toei's Broly... :think: But I digress.
Well they did say they wanted to retain what made him popular or something like that. I assume they meant that he turns into a raging juggernaut in LSSJ since that's what he's most known for. Toriyama did change his personality in both. I still like both versions of Broly though 8).

User avatar
Grimlock
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8241
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Cybertron.

Re: What haven't you seen?

Post by Grimlock » Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:01 pm

Skar wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:26 pmI've wanted to try Online before but the only option is an unofficial English version and I'm not sure how many active players it has. I assume it's less than the average MMO that do have official English servers.
I played recently for a little bit and the initial "lobby/city" had plenty of people. Of course, the map is huge so for the most part you will be alone during your journey, but if you want to see people, go to a city. TMQs is often made with a group of people, so be sure to get some friends to do those.
Goodbye friend. You are weak, so you must be destroyed!

~ War of the Dinobots ~

Gridlock
Newbie
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:10 pm

Re: What haven't you seen?

Post by Gridlock » Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:43 pm

Dragon Ball Heroes. I saw first 8 episodes, I think? At with point I realized "wow, I don't care at all where this is going". It feels like the most bare bones version od Dragon Ball. Other than that some mangas, like Heroes again, or the SD. I pretty much only follow the main one. Also never saw first three DB movies. Feels like I should, just never really got around to do it.

User avatar
Skar
I Live Here
Posts: 2206
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:04 pm
Location: US

Re: What haven't you seen?

Post by Skar » Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:54 pm

Grimlock wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:01 pmI played recently for a little bit and the initial "lobby/city" had plenty of people. Of course, the map is huge so for the most part you will be alone during your journey, but if you want to see people, go to a city. TMQs is often made with a group of people, so be sure to get some friends to do those.
Well I don't have any friends interested in playing an unofficial version of an outdated MMO. I do like the concept of DBO and some of the events taking place after EoZ but I'm a fan interested in these kinds of things and just saying not many would be. For example, I have one friend who is more of a casual fan and played some of Xenoverse but never heard of DBO or that Xenoverse was inspired by it.

Post Reply