Home video release ideas thread

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Kakacarrottop
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Home video release ideas thread

Post by Kakacarrottop » Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:53 pm

As far as niche releases go, one idea I have is:

"Dragon Ball: The Lost dubs"

Volume 1 (Dragon Ball):
The BLT dub for DB episodes 1-13 and DB movie 1
The Blue Water dub for the rest of Dragon Ball
The Big Green dub for DB movies 2-3
Also comes with a CD of "Dragon Ball: Original USA Television soundtrack"

Volume 2 (Dragon Ball Z Part one):
The Saban dub for DBZ episodes 1-53 and movie 3
The Pioneer dub for DBZ movies 1-2
Also comes with a CD of "Dragon Ball Z: Original USA Television soundtrack"

Volume 3 (Dragon Ball Z Part two):
The Westwood dub for DBZ episodes 108-276
The Big Green dub for DBZ movies 4-9 and specials 1-2

Volume 4 (Dragon Ball GT):
The Blue Water dub for DBGT
The Big Green dub for the GT special

I'm pretty sure all of these dubs are owned by either AB Groupe or Funimation, so it theoretically wouldn't be too much of a nightmare to put together.
"I will literally dress as Goku and walk around jumping up and down, pretending to fly, in public if this ever gets an official release"

- ShadowDude112 on Ocean's Kai dub

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Re: Home video release ideas thread

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:23 am

Kakacarrottop wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:53 pm
As far as niche releases go, one idea I have is:

"Dragon Ball: The Lost dubs"

Volume 1 (Dragon Ball):
The BLT dub for DB episodes 1-13 and DB movie 1
The Blue Water dub for the rest of Dragon Ball
The Big Green dub for DB movies 2-3
Also comes with a CD of "Dragon Ball: Original USA Television soundtrack"

Volume 2 (Dragon Ball Z Part one):
The Saban dub for DBZ episodes 1-53 and movie 3
The Pioneer dub for DBZ movies 1-2
Also comes with a CD of "Dragon Ball Z: Original USA Television soundtrack"

Volume 3 (Dragon Ball Z Part two):
The Westwood dub for DBZ episodes 108-276
The Big Green dub for DBZ movies 4-9 and specials 1-2

Volume 4 (Dragon Ball GT):
The Blue Water dub for DBGT
The Big Green dub for the GT special

I'm pretty sure all of these dubs are owned by either AB Groupe or Funimation, so it theoretically wouldn't be too much of a nightmare to put together.
I like that idea, I will add that Funimation would only need to license the Westwood and Blue Water dubs from Ocean Studios, as a fellow fan I'm in contact with recently phoned an Ocean rep, who passed him on to a higher up that informed him they could provide those dubs should any distributor be interested in putting together a home release. While we're on the subject of Ocean, I'd also put episodes 1-13 of Blue Water's OG Dragon Ball dub, and the Canadian edit of Funimation edited episodes 54-107 for good measure.

For the Big Green dubs Funimation could license those from AB Groupe/Mediawan Thematics. I'd also throw in the Big Green dub of DB movie 1, DBZ movies 1-3 and the Pioneer dub of movie 3.

I'd like to see a line of Blu-Rays like this inspired by the concept of the "Zack Synder's Justice League" BD:

"Karl Willem's Dragon Ball Z Kai"

Volume 1
5 BD Discs with four audio tracks, all using the Nicktoons edit, and an extras disc featuring interviews with Canadian cast, Karl Willems and Ken Morrison.
Audio tracks include:
- Ocean Studios DBZK dub with Canadian broadcast score episodes 1-50
- Funimation DBZK dub with Canadian broadcast score episodes 1-50
- Ocean Studios DBZK dub with original Japanese score episodes 1-50
- Funimation DBZK dub with original Japanese score episodes 1-50

Volume 2
5 BD Discs with four audio tracks, all using the Nicktoons edit, and an extras disc featuring interviews with Canadian cast, Karl Willems and Ken Morrison.
Audio tracks include:
- Ocean Studios DBZK dub with Canadian broadcast score episodes 51-98
- Funimation DBZK dub with Canadian broadcast score episodes 51-98
- Ocean Studios DBZK dub with original Japanese score episodes 51-98
- Funimation DBZK dub with original Japanese score episodes 51-98

Volume 3
8 BD Discs, five discs with four audio tracks each, and extra three discs with Japanese audio, all using original unedited video master.
Audio tracks include:
- Ocean Studios DBZK uncut dub with Canadian broadcast score episodes 1-50
- Funimation DBZK uncut dub with Canadian broadcast score episodes 1-50
- Ocean Studios DBZK uncut dub with original Japanese score episodes 1-50
- Funimation DBZK uncut dub with original Japanese score episodes 1-50
- Original Japanese audio episodes 1-50 with Japanese OP, ED and title cards

Volume 4
8 BD Discs, five discs with four audio tracks each, and extra three discs with Japanese audio, all using original unedited video master.
Audio tracks include:
- Ocean Studios DBZK uncut dub with Canadian broadcast score episodes 51-98
- Funimation DBZK uncut dub with Canadian broadcast score episodes 51-98
- Ocean Studios DBZK uncut dub with original Japanese score episodes 51-98
- Funimation DBZK uncut dub with original Japanese score episodes 51-98
- Original Japanese audio episodes 51-98 with Japanese OP, ED and title cards

I'd put Volumes 1-2 in standard amaray cases, while volumes 3-4 would be fat cases. The spines would line up to show high quality promo art for Dragon Ball Kai.

There would be a Kikuchi track made for each "original Japanese score" and "original Japanese audio" option because TOEI would likely not approve of any release with the Yamamoto score.

Otherwise, this would be the ideal Kai collection regardless of one's dub preference.

If these releases did well, Ocean would be contacted to dub TFC and sequel volumes would be made to also include both English dubs and the Japanese audio with OPs, EDs and title cards for the purists.

Again, depending on sales I'd also create a limited edition Rock the Dragon-style box containing all the above discs, possibly titled the "Fight with Power Edition".

Someone should seriously hire one of us. These releases would make so much money :lol:
Selling
- Arrival DVD single
- Betrayal DVD single

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- Showdown DVD single
- any of the Bridge Ent DVDs containing the Big Green dubs

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Re: Home video release ideas thread

Post by Ozotto » Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:39 pm

Japanese Dragon Boxes.
On Bluray.
With English subtitles.

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Re: Home video release ideas thread

Post by KingVegetto » Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:51 pm

I like that lost dubs idea.

I'd like a proper box set of the Ultimate Uncut episodes as they were originally broadcast, no cropping or DNR anything like that.

Also a box-set of the Funimation uncut dub episodes on the singles with Dragon Box or Level-Set quality visuals.

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Re: Home video release ideas thread

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:43 am

KingVegetto wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:51 pm
I like that lost dubs idea.

I'd like a proper box set of the Ultimate Uncut episodes as they were originally broadcast, no cropping or DNR anything like that.

Also a box-set of the Funimation uncut dub episodes on the singles with Dragon Box or Level-Set quality visuals.
Even those cringe red screen filters they applied to the title cards?

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Re: Home video release ideas thread

Post by KingVegetto » Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:52 am

MasenkoHA wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:43 am
KingVegetto wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:51 pm
I like that lost dubs idea.

I'd like a proper box set of the Ultimate Uncut episodes as they were originally broadcast, no cropping or DNR anything like that.

Also a box-set of the Funimation uncut dub episodes on the singles with Dragon Box or Level-Set quality visuals.
Even those cringe red screen filters they applied to the title cards?
Yes, I have a soft spot for that intro and UU theme.

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Re: Home video release ideas thread

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:15 pm

For the Lost Dubs collections I'd suggest making 'Dragon Ball (Part Two)' the second volume, with 'Dragon Ball Z (Part One') as the third volume, as there's more dubs out there that could make great additions to the collection:

Harmony Gold dub of episodes 1-5 + the movies 1 & 3 feature : some users here spoke to Harmony Gold and they agreed to let what they dubbed be sent on to Funimation so that would be rather simple.

Frontier Enterprises dub of movie 1 : said company no longer exists, so that dub's rights have likely reverted back to TOEI, who Funimation would need to negotiate with anyway. Only tricky part would be finding the masters, which TOEI have a bad track record of preserving. Though I have a feeling Kei17 may have a copy of this dub.

Speedy dub of movies 1-4 : would likely be quite cheap considering how low budget these dubs were, and how old they are now.

AB Groupe ("Big Green") dub of movies 1-3 : see above, same applies for these dubs.

Creative Product Corp dub of episodes 1-101 or 122 : for anyone aware, it is not known what point this dub stopped airing or ceased production, but these are the theorized counts for each. May be more costly than the rest

Creative Product Corp dub of movies 2 & 3 : sure, why not while we're at it?

Animax dub of episodes 1-153 : masters or a recording hopefully exists somewhere as this only aired about 15 years ago. Could possibly be included as an extra audio track with the Creative Product Corp dub of the series a as an extra audio track. If you put them on SD Blu-Rays you could get the entirety of both dubs on 3 discs, like Discotek's release of Fist of the North Star.

Of course such a release may not be cheap for Funimation, but it would be viable because with only two sets collectors could have all the known dubs of OG Dragon Ball other than the Funimation dub (which they can get on the blue bricks anyway), especially if they did a standard edition at any point.
Last edited by Dragon Ball Ireland on Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Selling
- Arrival DVD single
- Betrayal DVD single

Looking For
- Showdown DVD single
- any of the Bridge Ent DVDs containing the Big Green dubs

If interested PM with offers

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Re: Home video release ideas thread

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:18 pm

KingVegetto wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:52 am
MasenkoHA wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:43 am
KingVegetto wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:51 pm
I like that lost dubs idea.

I'd like a proper box set of the Ultimate Uncut episodes as they were originally broadcast, no cropping or DNR anything like that.

Also a box-set of the Funimation uncut dub episodes on the singles with Dragon Box or Level-Set quality visuals.
Even those cringe red screen filters they applied to the title cards?
Yes, I have a soft spot for that intro and UU theme.
I meant the red filter they applied to the title cards of the episodes. Not the intro itself

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Re: Home video release ideas thread

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:28 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:15 pm

Harmony Gold dub of episodes 1-5 + the movies 1 & 3 feature : (some users here spoke to Harmony Gold and they agreed to let what they dubbed be sent on to Funimation so that would be rather simple.
FUNimation got the Harmony Gold material in 1994. It doesn’t mean they still have them or that they are in presentable condition. I doubt preserving it was ever on their minds.

. Though I have a feeling Kei17 may have a copy of this dub.
It was a dub for airlines. Idk if anyone but Toei would have it

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Re: Home video release ideas thread

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Sun Oct 10, 2021 2:12 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:28 pm
FUNimation got the Harmony Gold material in 1994. It doesn’t mean they still have them or that they are in presentable condition. I doubt preserving it was ever on their minds.
Fair, although luckily all that Harmony Gold dubbed has been found, so if Funimation no longer has the original masters the audio from the fan recordings could be used. It wouldn't be ideal, sure, but better than nothing. The audio can always be synched to any of the existing video masters. The eyecatches and ED could be recreated from scratch, and then the OP would be easy enough to recreate because it uses existing shots.
MasenkoHA wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:28 pm
It was a dub for airlines. Idk if anyone but Toei would have it
Thing about the Frontier Enterprises dub is that you could make the argument it's existence is debatable. After all it was seemingly only first mentioned on forums about 6 years ago, and Richard Nieskens is the only VA who claimed to have worked on it and as he referred to it as "Dragon Ball Z" it seems to be a false memory on his part to an extent (the time he worked for Frontier predates even Z airing in Japan by at least 2 years). Despite all that, whenever Kei mentioned this dub he has shown little to no doubt of it being real (and I trust him, as I do regarding the supposed Korean educational dub of DBZ), so I'm inclined to think either Frontier sent all their materials back to the relevant license holders (obviously TOEI in Dragon Ball's case) before closing shop in 2000, and he managed to source a copy through connections, or one of Kei's older relatives who he trusts saw the dub on a flight when it allegedly was shown in 1987.
Selling
- Arrival DVD single
- Betrayal DVD single

Looking For
- Showdown DVD single
- any of the Bridge Ent DVDs containing the Big Green dubs

If interested PM with offers

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Re: Home video release ideas thread

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:16 am

A pretty simple Blu-ray set of DBZ which I will call "The Realist's Hope":

Video is Funimations 2013-2015 cleaned-up and colour-corrected transfer without any of the DNR, cropping, or awful contrast/tinting bullshit they've done for either incarnation of the Season Blu-ray releases. (In layman's terms: Basically the improved Level video that Funimation keeps deciding to not give us)
The title cards will vary depending on your audio track.

Audio is:
1. Japanese broadcast audio (which they definitely have), with some work by an audio engineer to get the best out of it. Japanese title cards are displayed with a subtitle showing the translation.
2. A new version of the Funimation + Kikuchi dub mixed in 5.1 surround. All the insert songs are included this time, and the various mixing errors in previous "Remastered" releases are corrected, and the correct Japanese OP/ED music is used like on the Dragon Boxes. Current "Remastered" episode titles are displayed with the Kai episode title font.
3. The original Funimation dub with US music in stereo and, where available, 5.1 surround. For episodes 1-67, this is taken directly from the 5.1 mixes of the Ultimate Uncut dub, for episodes 68+, this is the original uncut home video dub released on DVD in 1999-2004. Anyone who wants to watch with the Faulconer score and all that would prefer that this track was presented this way, so this is really how it should be. Original episode titles are displayed with the original font and styling Funimation used to use in 1999-2004 (and on the Orange Bricks).

There would also be a bonus feature on the disc that includes Z episodes 67 and/or 68, containing the original uncut home video dub of the portions of Z episode 67 that were included on the original DVD release of edited episode #54.

--

My ideal (and completely unrealistic) Blu-ray set:

Video is the same as the "Realist's hope", except they also cover DB; Funimation definitely had film prints of DB when they started in 1995 and kept them until at least the Blue Bricks' authoring in about 2008ish*, so I would assume they either still have at least some portion of the show, or they transferred it all at the same time as Z in about 2011-2015 before disposing of it. But if they don't have any prints of DB anymore and they didn't transfer it all in HD, then they would have to talk to Toei and arrange to pay for a new HD transfer to be done in Japan, probably from available archive prints since the negatives are unlikely to be cleared for use. Same for GT.
If either DB or GT prove impossible to get in HD, then Funimation instead does upscales; the SD source being upscaled is Dragon Box for GT, but for DB it's a mixture of their original 1995-2003 transfers, their ~2008 new transfers for the Blue Bricks*, and the Dragon Boxes. (Depending on which source looks best for each episode; and it will vary)

* Some episodes of DB on the Blue Bricks appear to be totally new transfers, but most episodes are taken from their original transfers. (Both are badly filtered though, so it all looks a bit crap)

Audio is:
1. Japanese broadcast audio (which they definitely have). Same as realistic audio track #1.
2. Funimation + Kikuchi in 5.1. A completely new dub using scripts based off the Simmons/Mandelin translations, written faithfully to the original dialogue (like the Pioneer dub movies). Where available, the Kikuchi music is taken from the masters Nippon Columbia has used to author CDs (some of this is in stereo), all the music they can't get in this way is worked on by a good audio engineer to fit in with the high-quality CD music as best as possible. All the insert songs are included this time, and the correct Japanese OP/ED music is used like on the Dragon Boxes. New episode titles are presented in the style and font of Kai (and yes, Doc Morgan records all-new narration for the show).
3. Ocean + Kikuchi in 5.1. Same as #2 except all the dialogue is recorded by Ocean. Dialogue is mixed to be combined with the 5.1 music & SFX of Funimation's new dub created for audio track #2. Same episode titles and presentation as Funimation + Kikuchi in 5.1.
4. The original Funimation dub (with US music for Z and GT), in stereo and, where available, 5.1 surround. For episodes 1-67, this is taken directly from the 5.1 mixes of the Ultimate Uncut dub, for episodes 68+, this is the original uncut home video dub released on DVD in 1999-2004. This is the original dub; if you want the original pre-Kai Funimation dubbing and the Faulconer score, this is the version you want, that you remember from Toonami in 1999, but it's uncut and they still say "Mr. Satan". Original episode titles are displayed with the original font and styling Funimation used to use in 1999-2004 (and on the Orange Bricks).

In addition, since we're in super-idealised fantasyland, seamless branching of the video is used to include the original Saban dub, the TV edit of the Funi dub (with the Ocean edit of episodes 54-107), the original Westwood dubs, Japanese Kai, Funimation's uncut Kai dub, and Ocean's Kai dub, all recreated using the new HD footage used on the main episodes (plus extra footage of the intros/outros of the relevant alternate versions).

--

I'll also propose one further possibility, a sort of happy medium between the two extremes. Whereas the "Realist's Hope" is the minimum one could reasonably expect out of Funimation deciding to do an actually-good release of DBZ, this is what one could realistically propose if Funimation decided to spend some extra cash to give something special to the fans; it's not the extravagant craziness of the ideal version, but it would become the definitive version of Dragon Ball to own in the west, it would have most of what we'd all want out of the ideal version, and wouldn't be difficult or massively expensive produce...

Video is the same as the ideal one, except we're excluding GT, and the probability of DB being upscaled (either partially or entirely) is much higher because we're only using video material Funimation has on-hand, so any DB video they never transferred in HD is upscaled from their original 1995-2008 transfers or maybe the Dragon Boxes (whichever is better for any given episode, as judged by their engineers)

Audio is:
1. Japanese broadcast audio (which they definitely have). Same as realistic and ideal track #1.
2. Funimation + Kikuchi in 5.1. Funimation's Z dialogue is taken from Kai with all the actors asked back to reprise their roles to record any extra dialogue they can't fill in with either video game dialogue (particularly DBZ Kakarot) or the original Z dub, with the scripts for any extra dialogue adapted from Steve Simmons' subtitles for the show; DB is the original dub but with the dialogue edited (including using alternate takes and some audio from their dubs of the movies and video games) to minimise the badness of Funimation's original scripts; a handful of lines are totally rewritten and thus redubbed at the same time as the Z fill-ins. Soundalikes fill in for unavailable actors. Music+SFX and episode titles/title cards are as in the ideal version.
3. (DB, and Z 123-291 only) The Remastered Westwood dubs, newly created by Ocean from their stems of the original Westwood dub recordings of DB and Z 123-291 (yes, it all still exists, a friend was able to talk to a representative from Ocean a while ago, and they confirmed all their old recordings still exist); the dialogue is all fitted to the uncut footage, the very limited amount of missing dialogue (it won't be all that much) is re-recorded by either the original actors or stand-ins, all handled by Ocean in Canada. The original edited dub of Z is referenced to recreate the original score, using all the same music Ocean used in 2001-2003, and DB has its dialogue mixed to be combined with the new music & effects 5.1 mix Funimation created for #2. DB uses new title cards matching the original episode titles and styled somewhat similarly but placed over the title card sequence, Z uses the same title cards as #4.
4. The original Funimation dub (with US music for Z), in stereo and, where available, 5.1 surround. Same as in the ideal version.
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Re: Home video release ideas thread

Post by NitroEX » Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:22 pm

As far as Big Green dubs go, those should just be additional audio tracks or thrown in the bonus features on uncut movie releases. The same goes for the Pioneer uncut movie dubs honestly.
The AB movie dubs definitely don't warrant their own independent release.

The main reason to include Pioneer's uncut Ocean dubs on uncut releases is to prevent Funimation from meddling with history. They've previously given the false impression with the RTD set that everything Ocean dubbed was edited, despite that being false in the case of the Pioneer dubs. Sticking them on the uncut set dispels this idea plus it gives more people a chance to hear it who otherwise wouldn't purchase a "lost dubs" set.

The Westwood/Ocean broadcast dub of episodes 108-276 and Blue Water dubs definitely deserve some kind of dedicated box set. I think the only way to make it work in this day and age is to fashion it around a larger documentary or interview series that documents the bizarre story behind the dub itself and the producers, directors and actors who were all involved in it. You could even get stories from fans who preserved broadcast rips if you really wanted to. I think it would be a fascinating doc just by itself, never mind finally having all the episodes in high-quality audio for the first time. You could even include commentary tracks for certain episodes which I personally would find amazing to listen to.
This release would mainly be for UK and Canadian markets, with the marketing and packaging tweaked and customized for their respective region to reflect either Toonami UK or YTV themed packaging. You could perhaps even throw in some promos and ads sourced from their channel archives to add to the nostalgic broadcast experience, but the documentary and episodes would remain unaltered on both. Obviously this would require permission from both Turner and Corus which could prove difficult but, it would be the best way to maximize the marketing potential of the set as everyone seeing a promo for it would understand what it is even if they don't necessarily remember the voices right away. If this set proved successful in those regions then naturally you could sell it as a limited release for the US fans, although I think you'd probably want to instead give the US a totally different "broadcast" set than this one.

The Ocean Kai dub is where I think you'd run into the most trouble simply because there's zero built-in nostalgic audience for it (aside from the reprisal of certain actors of course). You might be able to give it a jump start by preparing and releasing a trailer for it on the aforementioned Westwood/broadcast set. That would be quite a shot in the arm.... but I digress.
Because the Kai dub remains unreleased and because it was made with modern tools it's likely they have more options they could explore with it, they could hypothetically even retool the dub and music so that it caters to a different audience than the one it was initially made for, depending on who's interested in selling it. So, for instance, on one hand, you could keep it as-is and market it to a younger demographic as a kid-friendly version of Dragon Ball Kai. I think this idea would be perfect for kids streaming apps. Numerous kids anime have been streamed in this way and found an audience who weren't even born when the anime aired.

Alternatively, they could swap out the music and re-edit it to fit uncut footage, potentially record some last-minute ADR to fill any gaps or (in the event of a missing actor) recast and replace their performance, then add the Japanese music track and sell it on a Kai re-release. Admittedly this would be far from an ideal situation since it wouldn't have been directed to fit the tone of the Japanese music placement but, this way fans would at least get a public release of it in some form. Thinking about it more, if you gave Ocean enough time to rearrange the Kikuchi score, I'm sure they'd probably turn the Kai placement into something halfway decent.

Aside from the lost dub nonsense, I'd just want a Dragon Box styled Blu-ray box with properly remastered footage, Japanese broadcast audio and (ideally) barring Funimation employees entirely from the footage restoration and production of the set. I don't even need their uncut dub on the set, at this point I'd rather let Netflix or Amazon finance and produce a new dub, provided they sourced talent from LA, Vancouver (or, ideally, both). And yeah, I know, never going to happen but a guy can dream. :lol:

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Re: Home video release ideas thread

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:23 pm

NitroEX wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:22 pm
As far as Big Green dubs go, those should just be additional audio tracks or thrown in the bonus features on uncut movie releases. The same goes for the Pioneer uncut movie dubs honestly.
Agreed, and just to be clear for anyone who doesn't know already: While Funimation could at least attempt to make the argument that they don't want to have to negotiate/pay for the rights to use the Big Green dubs on their DVDs/Blu-rays, there is literally no reason for them to not include the Pioneer dubs. They paid for the Pioneer dubs, produced them, and have always owned the rights, just like the Saban dub.
NitroEX wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:22 pm
The Westwood/Ocean broadcast dub of episodes 108-276 and Blue Water dubs definitely deserve some kind of dedicated box set. I think the only way to make it work in this day and age is to fashion it around a larger documentary or interview series that documents the bizarre story behind the dub itself and the producers, directors and actors who were all involved in it.
I think there are enough fans from back then and new fans who would be interested, that you wouldn't have to work particularly hard to pitch this as a very cool thing worthy of its own DVD box set, and it would be pretty cheap to produce too; Ocean still has all the final masters, I believe on digital beta (so no need to even transfer it from analogue to digital), they could just knock together some menus, encode it all for DVD and boom, you're done. Ideally we'd get some bonus features (a few interviews with the actors and/or directors would be nice), but just having the episodes would be fine.

And the reality is that the story behind the dub isn't especially bizarre; Ocean produced their own dub to sell to the UK and the Netherlands for AB Groupe when AB and/or the local outlets found Funimation's dubs too expensive (or lacking in quality), and eventually Canada picked it up too. The music for Z was all put in their dub by Ocean themselves, using stock music they had a royalty-free license for, probably done because Funimation most likely didn't send them the Kikuchi music, and then when they switched to using AB Groupe's masters for DB and GT, they started using the music that was already on that (which was the original Japanese score).

People have built the Westwood dubs' history up as being this huge, mythical thing over the years, but it's really quite straightforward. The thing that's unusual is the specific details; the fact they started at episode 108 instead of 54, the fact they used Funimation's scripts for Z, and even their video masters for Z 108-270ish, and the fact that Ocean produced their own edit of Funi's TV dub for Canada covering Z episodes 54-167.
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Re: Home video release ideas thread

Post by NitroEX » Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:36 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:23 pm
And the reality is that the story behind the dub isn't especially bizarre; [...]
People have built the Westwood dubs' history up as being this huge, mythical thing over the years, but it's really quite straightforward.
It might not be bizarre to you and me but it is bizarre to the average fan.

The documentary wouldn't be for my personal benefit either (aside from hearing a few anecdotes and opinions from staff). I'm already familiar with the story behind the Westwood and BW dubs but that's because I've done the research. A lot of fans don't and just rely on rumour and speculation so a doc would help clear up misinformation whilst also having the added benefit of being an introduction point. It would be great for younger fans in particular who weren't around when the series was broadcast and would help give context to the whole thing and answer common questions like; "Where are episodes 54-107?" or "why are we starting at 108?" etc. It's a win no matter how you look at it and wouldn't be that expensive to produce provided the right people agree to speak on the subject.

I don't think the story needs to be particularly amazing either, it just needs to enlighten people on a subject that was otherwise not widely known and present it in an entertaining way.

Also, most older fans unfortunately do tend to age out of this stuff so aiming a barebones release solely at the older group would just end up limiting the audience quote a lot. I think a documentary serves the need of both the new and old fan quite nicely.

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Re: Home video release ideas thread

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:47 pm

NitroEX wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:36 pm
Robo4900 wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:23 pm
And the reality is that the story behind the dub isn't especially bizarre; [...]
People have built the Westwood dubs' history up as being this huge, mythical thing over the years, but it's really quite straightforward.
It might not be bizarre to you and me but it is bizarre to the average fan.

The documentary wouldn't be for my personal benefit either (aside from hearing a few anecdotes and opinions from staff). I'm already familiar with the story behind the Westwood and BW dubs but that's because I've done the research. A lot of fans don't and just rely on rumour and speculation so a doc would help clear up misinformation whilst also having the added benefit of being an introduction point. It would be great for younger fans in particular who weren't around when the series was broadcast and would help give context to the whole thing and answer common questions like; "Where are episodes 54-107?" or "why are we starting at 108?" etc. It's a win no matter how you look at it and wouldn't be that expensive to produce provided the right people agree to speak on the subject.

I don't think the story needs to be particularly amazing either, it just needs to enlighten people on a subject that was otherwise not widely known and present it in an entertaining way.

Also, most older fans unfortunately do tend to age out of this stuff so aiming a barebones release solely at the older group would just end up limiting the audience quote a lot. I think a documentary serves the need of both the new and old fan quite nicely.
I mean, as I say, I don't think it would be just for older fans. Lots of people are interested, I'm sure. Lots of people bought the Rock The Dragon set in the US, after all.

I see the point in having some kind of explanation, but a "documentary series" would be very bloated, I think. A single, probably not very long documentary (maybe half an hour?) could cover it all nicely, and honestly I think most of it would be either the background of the other dubs that led things to that point, or interviews with the voice cast talking about doing the show.
Loading it up with bonus features in general would be nice, but I think even one documentary would be pushing it given how Funimation kinda shat out the Rock The Dragon set with the TV edited versions of the uncut movie dubs, no bonus features, and horrible video quality. Still, if they did manage to put lots of bonus features on it, that would be great.

Ideally, I think such a set would include the entire Saban dub too, and the Ocean-edited Funi dub of 54-107, just so you have the entire Z series, and the full body of Ocean's work on the original Z. This kind of thing would probably be done by either Funimation or a subsidiary of them, so they would have the appropriate rights to include this extra material if they were getting ahold of the Westwood dubs.
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Re: Home video release ideas thread

Post by NitroEX » Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:32 pm

I see the point in having some kind of explanation, but a "documentary series" would be very bloated, I think.
I did say "a larger documentary or interview series". So I basically left it up in the air for either since this is all hypothetical. I don't personally think the documentary/retrospective would bloat things but I do think trying to include the Saban and in-house Z dubs would. It would also price a lot of people out of buying it, most likely. I would save those for their own sets and ideally provide those releases with their own retrospective material.
Loading it up with bonus features in general would be nice, but I think even one documentary would be pushing it given how Funimation kinda shat out the Rock The Dragon set with the TV edited versions of the uncut movie dubs, no bonus features, and horrible video quality. Still, if they did manage to put lots of bonus features on it, that would be great.
They'd definitely be lazy and cheap about it but they've gone out of their way doing interviews for their own in-house dub releases so it's inexcusable for them not to do something for this. It might not be realistic for Funimation but that's definitely how I would produce the set at least, if given the choice.

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Re: Home video release ideas thread

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Mon Oct 11, 2021 5:14 pm

NitroEX wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:32 pm
I do think trying to include the Saban and in-house Z dubs would. It would also price a lot of people out of buying it, most likely. I would save those for their own sets and ideally provide those releases with their own retrospective material.
It is a shame that since outsourcing Kai's TV edits Funimation seem to have distanced themselves from Ocean entirely. If the two companies still had a working relationship Rock the Dragon could have easily been followed up by a sequel, which included Ocean's edit of Z episodes 54-107, maybe one or two for the Westwood dub, and then later on released standard editions for the entire run. They would of all sold respectably, likely enough to give broadcasters in Canada, and other English-speaking territories an incentive to pick up Ocean's Kai dub so people that enjoyed the content on the Ocean dub DVDs would have more to enjoy. Hell as a mutual benefit for both companies Ocean could have even put together some trailers as an extra for Funimation's sets, so people would buy them, both to see the dub they grew up with and get a glimpse of what is to come.

Sadly I think the ship has sailed on a documentary on the making of the Westwood dub ever happening, but I'd be up for doing a fan series of interviews with some of the cast members, musicians, maybe even Diane Cage and Ken Morrison to get all the fan questions answered.
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Re: Home video release ideas thread

Post by NitroEX » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:29 am

Something worth mentioning is that I don't think the RTD set is really a great example for other potential broadcast sets. The introduction-less approach worked for the Saban dub episodes because those episodes had the advantage of starting from episode 1 of DBZ. By nature of what it was there was arguably less of a need for introductory material. That said, the set did actually bother to give a brief introduction and provide some context for what it was, only it wasn't in the form of a video, it was just text within a booklet that you had to open to get the discs. So in other words it was just a lazy, ineffective and non-engaging way of doing it. Most wouldn't have even bothered reading it because of the half-assed presentation.

The Westwood dubbed episodes (or even Funi's in-house dub of 54-107) don't have the same luxury. They start comparatively on a cold open on top of the fact that the story behind their production was far more convoluted than that of the Saban dub. If you were making these sets as continuations of RTD you can argue that less introduction is required but for the UK (a key market where you'd have nostalgia for these episodes) the RTD didn't even get a release. But even if it had, the convoluted nature of the production and why the dub even exists at least deserves addressing for the casual consumer and younger fan. The details of how you do that are beside the point, it's just a bare necessity of a set like this in my view.

The Blue Water dubbed episodes on the other hand could work better with the basic/RTD approach as they're more of an open and shut case. They start from episode 1 and end at the last episode, there's not much explaining necessary there.

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Re: Home video release ideas thread

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:23 am

I get what your saying, that's why I suggested the Ocean edit of Z episodes 54-107 that only ever aired on YTV as a bridge between the Saban and Westwood dubs. It's more collectible because unlike the Funimation TV edit (which is mostly available on VHS, although there are small differences, so small the vast majority of Funimation dub fans wouldn't even notice, hell many don't even notice the difference between the singles dub and the remastered dub) it was never released. It could easily be sold as a follow-up to Rock the Dragon, similarly the Westwood box set could be described as a sequel to that, featuring "the return of the legendary Ocean cast".

Though, as you've explained many times Funimation doesn't show any honour for the Canadian cast other than being the cast of some censored dub they had nothing to do with (hence the Rock the Dragon calling it "the Ocean dub", despite being Funimation's production), so none of this would ever happen as long as they hold the license, but it's still nice to dream.

Hell, if Funimation are worried about promoting competing dubs they could always buy Ocean at the rate of their growth. Not only would they have a wider range of actors for their dubs (as Ocean pays the salaries of the Vancouver and Calgary casts, and most likely the directors, editors, etc it would mean less resources on Funimation's part for more diverse casts and more talent in all areas), the possibilities for milking Dragon Ball even more through old and lost dubs, and the rest of Ocean's anime catalogue would be potentially endless.
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Re: Home video release ideas thread

Post by theoriginalbilis » Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:26 pm

A "lost dubs" release is a cool idea, and I do believe a release of the work recorded in Canada (Ocean/Westwood Z and Kai) would sell well enough to justify a physical release, even if it was a limited edition. And I doubt it would be prohibitively expensive to license these dubs, given their age. The work's already been done.

There are enough fans of Scott McNeil and Brian Drummond, myself included, who would pay good money to hear them again as Piccolo and Vegeta, but with better scripts and ADR direction.

The only recent examples that come to mind of a dub being "too expensive" to license are the Netflix dubs of Baki and Vinland Saga. The home media distributor, Sentai Filmworks, ended up dubbing these in-house for their Blu-Rays, instead of including the dubs produced by Netflix.

Personally, I just want to see official releases of "Ocean Kai" and the Japanese broadcast audio (at least for Z) within my lifetime. :lol:
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