Why did Cartoon Network revert back to the Saban dub in early 2006?

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Why did Cartoon Network revert back to the Saban dub in early 2006?

Post by Arian » Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:54 am

So, here's one that I don't think has been broached anywhere since it first happened.

After Cartoon Network's initial run of Dragon Ball Z's Ultimate Uncut Special Editon, (dubbed simply as Dragon Ball Z Uncut or DBZ Uncut by Cartoon Network) featuring the Saiyan and Namek "sagas" in their full uncut form dubbed in English by FUNimation's Texas-based cast on a Monday-Thursday rotation at 10:30pm had concluded with episode 67, A Legend Revealed on Monday, October 10, 2005, it was then swiftly moved to their Toonami block, which at that point only had a weekly presence on Saturday nights starting on Saturday, October 15, 2005.

Naturally they started from the beginning of the series, sticking with FUNimation's uncut dub, though occasionally an episode would be postponed or skipped due to a tight schedule or the occasional Naruto marathon (which was only a taste of what was to come for the short-term future of the network).

However, on the January 21, 2006 edition of Toonami, Cartoon Network opted to air the episode Escape from Piccolo, rooted from the Saban dub rather than the episode that would have followed the UUSE's The Strangest Robot, the episode titled A New Friend.

What's particularly strange about this is that rather than starting the series over from scratch once again or at least lining up the subsequent episode of the alternate dub to directly follow the episode they played the previous week, they decided to skip a pretty good number of episodes therein (albeit filler episodes, but still). My only rationale for this is that the Saban dub equivalent to the episode they were supposed to air, Gohan Makes a Friend borrows footage seen in The Strangest Robot and uses it to piece together a slightly different narrative than what was seen in the uncut version of the series. (Ex. Gohan walking through the sandstorm with tears in his eyes was originally in reaction to what happened to the robot, but because that storyline was skipped over in the Saban dub, the same footage was used for Gohan to react to

I apologize for my extensive meanderings. Because this is a sidestep to the point of this thread.

What interested me, was that ItachiIshtar of Tumblr, while creating a pretty comprehensive and accurate archive of Toonami's weekly schedules between 2004 and 2013, he does point out something pretty bold about the dub swap with no citation.

Jan 21, 2006

7:30pm: Dragon Ball Z - “Escape from Picccolo” (Switched to old edited dub due to low ratings)


Is there actually any evidence to back this up, just for history's sake? Not that I wouldn't believe that that was the reason, but I'd rather have something to fall back on, as we all do.

Also because given the fact that they ran FUNimation's uncut dub in its completion and began to run it again, the content at hand clearly wasn't an issue, at least not immediately, and considering what they're able to air as of late, not much has really changed.

Anyway, I'd love to hear any input, if possible.
Was the hate for Kai largely unjustified?
Super Saiyan Prime wrote:It's an edited, cynically produced, cheap recut with a poorly utilized ancient score and awful scene recreations that later got traded in for a weird green tint.

The story of Kai's production is far more interesting than the actual product.
Danfun64 wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:40 pm Screw Corus and it's monopoly. It should sell off the Nick, Disney, and CN assets at minimum.

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Re: Why did Cartoon Network revert back to the Saban dub in early 2006?

Post by superrayman3 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:35 am

Now that you mention it I actually do remember something like that actually happening one time although in my case I believe it was for the second episode instead (I stumbled upon it by chance while channel surfing). I'm more than positive it was episode 2 because I recall Raditz at Kame House talking about Goku's origins, another thing I noticed right away is the cast sounded nothing like FUNi's in-house cast at all. Since it seems we've both have encountered this I'd say it's possible there's more instances of this happening, now why it happened is anybody's guess, maybe a label on the source medium might have been misread by the person in charge of operating the equipment and have been a simple mix-up, it's hard to say.
If anyone has any of the DB/DBZ/DBGT or Maho Tsuaki Sally Japanese single DVD's that they'd be interested in selling send me a PM and I'll see if we can work something out. ;).

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Re: Why did Cartoon Network revert back to the Saban dub in early 2006?

Post by Kakacarrottop » Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:49 am

A similar sort of thing happened here when Network Ten started playing The Saban dub again in 2010, 6 years after it had last played anything Dragon Ball related. It seemed very random at the time, and they didn't go past episode 53 into Funi's dub.

I'm pretty sure the Saban dub aired just once in 2000 and afterwards it was only Funi's dub, so a lot of people wouldn't even have been that familiar with the voices or music.
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Re: Why did Cartoon Network revert back to the Saban dub in early 2006?

Post by Arian » Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:49 am

superrayman3 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:35 am Now that you mention it I actually do remember something like that actually happening one time although in my case I believe it was for the second episode instead (I stumbled upon it by chance while channel surfing). I'm more than positive it was episode 2 because I recall Raditz at Kame House talking about Goku's origins, another thing I noticed right away is the cast sounded nothing like FUNi's in-house cast at all. Since it seems we've both have encountered this I'd say it's possible there's more instances of this happening...
Well, I had first gotten a blurb of this happening from a forum post from the time, reporting this. I want to say it was AnimeNewsNetwork, but I can't be sure. I definitely can't find that thread, but I did find this one from ToonZone (I'm not entertaining that joke of which they choose to call themselves now) in which the replies directly document what happened and when in real time, it's actually quite amusing.

https://animesuperhero.com/forums/threa ... s.4053861/

The point being, that moment you saw episode 2 couldn't have been on January 21, 2006.
Was the hate for Kai largely unjustified?
Super Saiyan Prime wrote:It's an edited, cynically produced, cheap recut with a poorly utilized ancient score and awful scene recreations that later got traded in for a weird green tint.

The story of Kai's production is far more interesting than the actual product.
Danfun64 wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:40 pm Screw Corus and it's monopoly. It should sell off the Nick, Disney, and CN assets at minimum.

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Re: Why did Cartoon Network revert back to the Saban dub in early 2006?

Post by superrayman3 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:15 am

Arian wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:49 amWell, I had first gotten a blurb of this happening from a forum post from the time, reporting this. I want to say it was AnimeNewsNetwork, but I can't be sure. I definitely can't find that thread, but I did find this one from ToonZone (I'm not entertaining that joke of which they choose to call themselves now) in which the replies directly document what happened and when in real time, it's actually quite amusing.

https://animesuperhero.com/forums/threa ... s.4053861/

The point being, that moment you saw episode 2 couldn't have been on January 21, 2006.
Perhaps I should clarify it was something that happened but it might have been on a different day because I remember it happening, does anybody know how many times episode 2 aired on Toonami following the initial UUE broadcast? It could have happened during that timeframe but unless we know how many times episode 2 aired on the block after that point there's no way of knowing for sure.
If anyone has any of the DB/DBZ/DBGT or Maho Tsuaki Sally Japanese single DVD's that they'd be interested in selling send me a PM and I'll see if we can work something out. ;).

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Re: Why did Cartoon Network revert back to the Saban dub in early 2006?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:16 pm

I have no basis for this and I’m probably talking out my ass but could it be possible FUNimation just didn’t want Toonami to run those episodes anymore? FUNimation was still trying to sell those Ultimate Uncut DVDS (I think volume 8 and 9 hadn’t even come out yet) with Tivo still being a big thing they might have been worried about constant tv airings of the uncut dub would impact sales (why buy 3 episodes for $20 when I can just record these episodes off tv for free?) starting with season 3 I’m pretty sure most of the time the episodes were available on VHS before they made their Toonami debut.

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Re: Why did Cartoon Network revert back to the Saban dub in early 2006?

Post by 90sDBZ » Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:32 pm

Reading through that old toonzone topic, many seeemed to think it was because of complaints against the violence from the uncut dub.

It must have been a strange time for you guys. Reminds me of the Fusion saga dub switches we had in the UK, where it aired in Funimation's dub first, then the Westwood dub for later reruns.

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Re: Why did Cartoon Network revert back to the Saban dub in early 2006?

Post by Arian » Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:58 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:16 pmFUNimation was still trying to sell those Ultimate Uncut DVDS (I think volume 8 and 9 hadn’t even come out yet) with Tivo still being a big thing they might have been worried about constant tv airings of the uncut dub would impact sales (why buy 3 episodes for $20 when I can just record these episodes off tv for free?) starting with season 3 I’m pretty sure most of the time the episodes were available on VHS before they made their Toonami debut.
In theory, you are absolutely correct, but all 67 episodes had already aired once a piece, so if they were going to "leak" or adversely affect DVD sales, I think the proverbial shit would have already hit the fan as they say. And I do believe there was an Internet-based release at one point, but it wasn't very popular, not as popular as Orange Brick DVDrips, at least.

The hilarious thing was that in actuality, those 3-episode volume DVDs would cost $29.95+tax, sometimes more if the mood struck whatever store you were buying from. And oops, they never got finished. I guess tally one more point to Cartoon Network as far as doing what FUNimation themselves refused to do.

As for the VHS releases pre-dating Cartoon Network airings, it really depends on the arc and how they organized everything. The Cell Games Saga for instance aired in its entirety as soon as December 2000, but the first VHS release of those episodes started in November 2002. And it would be delayed further until 2003-2004. Then the DVDs of those episodes were delayed even further.
Was the hate for Kai largely unjustified?
Super Saiyan Prime wrote:It's an edited, cynically produced, cheap recut with a poorly utilized ancient score and awful scene recreations that later got traded in for a weird green tint.

The story of Kai's production is far more interesting than the actual product.
Danfun64 wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:40 pm Screw Corus and it's monopoly. It should sell off the Nick, Disney, and CN assets at minimum.

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Re: Why did Cartoon Network revert back to the Saban dub in early 2006?

Post by Arian » Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:05 pm

superrayman3 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:15 am
Arian wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:49 amWell, I had first gotten a blurb of this happening from a forum post from the time, reporting this. I want to say it was AnimeNewsNetwork, but I can't be sure. I definitely can't find that thread, but I did find this one from ToonZone (I'm not entertaining that joke of which they choose to call themselves now) in which the replies directly document what happened and when in real time, it's actually quite amusing.

https://animesuperhero.com/forums/threa ... s.4053861/

The point being, that moment you saw episode 2 couldn't have been on January 21, 2006.
Perhaps I should clarify it was something that happened but it might have been on a different day because I remember it happening, does anybody know how many times episode 2 aired on Toonami following the initial UUE broadcast? It could have happened during that timeframe but unless we know how many times episode 2 aired on the block after that point there's no way of knowing for sure.
I can tell you this much. Between April 2004 and when Dragon Ball Z went completely dark in March 2008, episode 2 had only aired in its uncut, FUNimation-dubbed form. The Saban dub of episode 2 never aired on the Saturday night-era of the original Toonami run (nor did it ever run on the Adult Swin-era either).
Last edited by Arian on Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Was the hate for Kai largely unjustified?
Super Saiyan Prime wrote:It's an edited, cynically produced, cheap recut with a poorly utilized ancient score and awful scene recreations that later got traded in for a weird green tint.

The story of Kai's production is far more interesting than the actual product.
Danfun64 wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:40 pm Screw Corus and it's monopoly. It should sell off the Nick, Disney, and CN assets at minimum.

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Re: Why did Cartoon Network revert back to the Saban dub in early 2006?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:08 pm

It still amazes me there was a time 3 episode DVDs cost around $30, whereas today you have fans holding out for Super season sets because they don't want to pay that much for 13 episodes on Blu-Ray. It is nice to see Dragon Ball sold well despite all that, it just goes to show how dedicated this fanbase is to supporting the series.
Do you have any info about international non-English broadcasts about the Dragon Ball anime or manga translations/editions? Please message me. Researching for a future book with Dragon Ball scholar Derek Padula :thumbup:

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Re: Why did Cartoon Network revert back to the Saban dub in early 2006?

Post by Arian » Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:15 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:08 pm It still amazes me there was a time 3 episode DVDs cost around $30, whereas today you have fans holding out for Super season sets because they don't want to pay that much for 13 episodes on Blu-Ray. It is nice to see Dragon Ball sold well despite all that, it just goes to show how dedicated this fanbase is to supporting the series.
Don't even get me started on that Level set fiasco! It is more FUNimation's fault than anything else, given that each Level set had 17 episodes while every other Dragon Ball Z release since 2007 had spanned 30 or more episodes per set, but the fans were still entitled as all hell, given what we got with the Level sets. I believe I even have screenshots somewhere of people's initial reaction of the Level set announcement and how FUNimation was milking the series and how they didn't want to buy the same thing over and over again.

The sales of the subsequent Dragon Ball Z releases reflect the fact that the general public was perfectly okay with that in the end.
Was the hate for Kai largely unjustified?
Super Saiyan Prime wrote:It's an edited, cynically produced, cheap recut with a poorly utilized ancient score and awful scene recreations that later got traded in for a weird green tint.

The story of Kai's production is far more interesting than the actual product.
Danfun64 wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:40 pm Screw Corus and it's monopoly. It should sell off the Nick, Disney, and CN assets at minimum.

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Re: Why did Cartoon Network revert back to the Saban dub in early 2006?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:24 pm

I guess you could argue the Dragon Boxes were still in print when the Level sets were announced, so in addition to it being too soon to announce a new Z release there probably were fans, particularly purists that were satisfied and genuinely felt they were being milked.
Do you have any info about international non-English broadcasts about the Dragon Ball anime or manga translations/editions? Please message me. Researching for a future book with Dragon Ball scholar Derek Padula :thumbup:

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Re: Why did Cartoon Network revert back to the Saban dub in early 2006?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:33 pm

I'm still of the mindset that if FUNi had just waited an extra couple of years (like sometime around 2013 or 2014) until after the Dragon Boxes had run their course and Kai as far as it could be released at the time out then the Level sets could've been better recieved. Those with the episode counts of the season sets i think would've sold very well and not sandwiched between three other editions of effectively the same thing.
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