With DB targeting a more international audience nowadays, do you see a minority someday becoming part of the main cast?

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Re: With DB targeting a more international audience nowadays, do you see a minority someday becoming part of the main ca

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:15 pm

KingVegetto wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:09 pm I never said they wouldn't, i'm just saying it dosen't have to be one or the other, there's no reason at all why we can't have both original films starring BIPOC and remakes and reboots featuring traditionally white characters as a different race. I don't believe it's half-hearted at all, also you never specifically asked what made them more interesting before now. Your post certainly isn't doing anything to change my mind, so I guess that leaves us at a stalemate. I don't really see how changing a characters race functions on the idea that media will still be dominated by white characters, that makes no sense to me at all.

I think this nicely sums up Fury:https://www.domtheartist.com/2019/10/01 ... ame-black/
Well, I'm asking now. What does make them more interesting? And regarding your last question: if you're always race-swapping, it shows that white characters are still the majority (since obviously it's not happening the other way around). Unless you race-swap every single white character, in which case, what was the whole point anyway? You still haven't really said how it's inherently a great thing in and of itself.

I suppose it can exist along with new original characters, but I'm mainly wondering what gives merit to race-swapping in general. Again, the Fury article is nice, but that also could have been done with an original character since he's fundamentally different anyway.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: With DB targeting a more international audience nowadays, do you see a minority someday becoming part of the main ca

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:48 pm

And now, to break up the hot argument that is currently going on, I shall add my own smartass remark.

I find it funny how whenever race comes into a conversation, shit goes from zero to 100 in a matter of a few posts, then all of a sudden, you have a hail storm of angry, offended people who are cursing each other out and ignoring the original point of the argument entirely.
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Re: With DB targeting a more international audience nowadays, do you see a minority someday becoming part of the main ca

Post by PurestEvil » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:50 pm

FPSSJ4_Goku wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:48 pm And now, to break up the hot argument that is currently going on, I shall add my own smartass remark.

I find it funny how whenever race comes into a conversation, shit goes from zero to 100 in a matter of a few posts, then all of a sudden, you have a hail storm of angry, offended people who are cursing each other out and ignoring the original point of the argument entirely.
But that didn’t occur here
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Re: With DB targeting a more international audience nowadays, do you see a minority someday becoming part of the main ca

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:56 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:50 pm But that didn’t occur here
People in this group can be overdramatic as hell. No one was agreeing, but it wasn't really a heated argument. I didn't see where anyone was really being a smartass, either. It's funny how these "stir-the-pot" comments like to call out things that weren't there to begin with; it happened on that Vegeta thread also.

Then again, I feel like this thread was going to be controversial from the start, so what do I know? Lol
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: With DB targeting a more international audience nowadays, do you see a minority someday becoming part of the main ca

Post by KingVegetto » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:23 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:56 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:50 pm But that didn’t occur here
People in this group can be overdramatic as hell. No one was agreeing, but it wasn't really a heated argument. I didn't see where anyone was really being a smartass, either. It's funny how these "stir-the-pot" comments like to call out things that weren't there to begin with; it happened on that Vegeta thread also.

Then again, I feel like this thread was going to be controversial from the start, so what do I know? Lol
Yeah all things considered this is a much more civil exchange then i've seen compared to the likes of Twitter and Reddit where things tend to turn ugly real fast. I wish all of my debates could be this pleasant and civil. :angel:

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Re: With DB targeting a more international audience nowadays, do you see a minority someday becoming part of the main ca

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:39 pm

KingVegetto wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:23 pm Yeah all things considered this is a much more civil exchange then i've seen compared to the likes of Twitter and Reddit where things tend to turn ugly real fast. I wish all of my debates could be this pleasant and civil. :angel:
Likewise :) . This is actually just about the only online space where I'll engage in this type of discourse nowadays. I've had the most positive experience here even talking disagreements, even considering occasional harsh wording, compared to any other fan community I've been a part of (and I'm a fan of a lot more thab DB)
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: With DB targeting a more international audience nowadays, do you see a minority someday becoming part of the main ca

Post by Anonymous Friend » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:13 pm

Glad I'm not the only one who missings white Fury. The Sam Jackson is a good version, but the white one is a very different beast of a bastard.

When it comes to race lifts, they know what their doing. 99% of the time, you're trying to gain favor with that race and hopes that you'll gain more _________ audience because you have a _____________ character. Which did/does work short term sometimes because there are plenty of people who fall for it. But is it worth risking the alien nation of current fans when that's the only reasonable reason.

I remember when black Fury started. In an interviewtwo decades again, they said they did it because they thought Jackson was the coolest, baddest MF'er there was. There are some cases where an impassioned actor makes a wild pitch for the role. But most times it's attempts at pandering.
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Re: With DB targeting a more international audience nowadays, do you see a minority someday becoming part of the main ca

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:31 pm

Anonymous Friend wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:13 pm Glad I'm not the only one who missings white Fury. The Sam Jackson is a good version, but the white one is a very different beast of a bastard.

When it comes to race lifts, they know what their doing. 99% of the time, you're trying to gain favor with that race and hopes that you'll gain more _________ audience because you have a _____________ character. Which did/does work short term sometimes because there are plenty of people who fall for it. But is it worth risking the alien nation of current fans when that's the only reasonable reason.

I remember when black Fury started. In an interviewtwo decades again, they said they did it because they thought Jackson was the coolest, baddest MF'er there was. There are some cases where an impassioned actor makes a wild pitch for the role. But most times it's attempts at pandering.
That could come off as you being a white supremacist to a certain group of people....
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Re: With DB targeting a more international audience nowadays, do you see a minority someday becoming part of the main ca

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:30 pm

FPSSJ4_Goku wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:31 pm
Anonymous Friend wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:13 pm Glad I'm not the only one who missings white Fury. The Sam Jackson is a good version, but the white one is a very different beast of a bastard.

When it comes to race lifts, they know what their doing. 99% of the time, you're trying to gain favor with that race and hopes that you'll gain more _________ audience because you have a _____________ character. Which did/does work short term sometimes because there are plenty of people who fall for it. But is it worth risking the alien nation of current fans when that's the only reasonable reason.

I remember when black Fury started. In an interviewtwo decades again, they said they did it because they thought Jackson was the coolest, baddest MF'er there was. There are some cases where an impassioned actor makes a wild pitch for the role. But most times it's attempts at pandering.
That could come off as you being a white supremacist to a certain group of people....
For someone claiming "shit goes from zero to 100 whenever race is mentioned," you seem to be trying to take it back there. :eh:
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: With DB targeting a more international audience nowadays, do you see a minority someday becoming part of the main ca

Post by Adamant » Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:15 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:15 pm I suppose it can exist along with new original characters, but I'm mainly wondering what gives merit to race-swapping in general. Again, the Fury article is nice, but that also could have been done with an original character since he's fundamentally different anyway.
That Fury article is complete nonsense written by someone that had no clue what he was talking about. Just look at this shit:
Then, in 2002, Nick Fury shows up once more in the title, The Ultimates, but with some notable differences. In that comic, he’s black.
(...) I don’t give a good Goddamn if they want to write Nick Fury as a black man, an Asian woman or a nonbinary Latinix with breast augmentation and a big dick. What does matter to me, however, is continuity. I was actually pretty shocked I didn’t hear more complaints about a character that has been white for four decades suddenly becoming a black man with no explanation. I believe the short answer that was given at the time was that this was merely an alternate dimension, which is the lamest writer cop out that I have heard.
The Ultimates wasn't this random series that popped out of nowhere and where Fury was now suddenly black for no explained reason, it was part of the Ultimate line of comics that rebooted the entire universe from scratch and made all sorts of similar changes all over the place. Ultimate Wasp is Asian. Ultimate Kraven is Australian and a pastiche of Steve Irwin. Ultimate Fantastic Four are teenagers. Ultimate Venom is the result of a lab experiment by Peter Parker's now-scientist dad. There weren't more complaints about Ultimate Fury being black because the entire point of this comic and the entire line it was part of was that it WASN'T in continuity with the regular Marvel universe. It wasn't a cop-out, it was literally the entire point.

Battle Scars, on the other hand, WAS set in the regular Marvel continuity. It had nothing to do with Ultimate Fury or "explaining why Fury was suddenly black now" (which he wasn't - Ultimate Fury and MCU Fury were black, but they're separate characters from regular Marvel continuity Fury, who was still white), but Marvel wanting to replace Fury with a black man also called Nick Fury because "new readers coming from the movies would be used to Fury being black". It was dumb, the comic was pretty awful, and fans did absolutely complain about it.

Why do people write "explanatory" articles about things they know nothing about?
Last edited by Adamant on Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: With DB targeting a more international audience nowadays, do you see a minority someday becoming part of the main ca

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:24 pm

Adamant wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:15 pm
Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:15 pm I suppose it can exist along with new original characters, but I'm mainly wondering what gives merit to race-swapping in general. Again, the Fury article is nice, but that also could have been done with an original character since he's fundamentally different anyway.
That Fury article is complete nonsense written by someone that had no clue what he was talking about. Just look at this shit:
Then, in 2002, Nick Fury shows up once more in the title, The Ultimates, but with some notable differences. In that comic, he’s black.
(...) I don’t give a good Goddamn if they want to write Nick Fury as a black man, an Asian woman or a nonbinary Latinix with breast augmentation and a big dick. What does matter to me, however, is continuity. I was actually pretty shocked I didn’t hear more complaints about a character that has been white for four decades suddenly becoming a black man with no explanation. I believe the short answer that was given at the time was that this was merely an alternate dimension, which is the lamest writer cop out that I have heard.
The Ultimates wasn't this random series that popped out of nowhere and where Fury was now suddenly black for no explained reason, it was part of the Ultimate line of comics that rebooted the entire universe from scratch and made all sorts of similar changed all over the place. Ultimate Wasp is Asian. Ultimate Kraven is Australian and a pastiche of Steve Irwin. Ultimate Fantastic Four are teenagers. Ultimate Venom is the result of a lab experiment by Peter Parker's now-scientist dad. There weren't more complaints about Ultimate Fury being black because the entire point of this comic and the entire line it was part of was that it WASN'T in continuity with the regular Marvel universe. It wasn't a cop-out, it was literally the entire point.

Battle Scars, on the other hand, WAS set in the regular Marvel continuity. It had nothing to do with Ultimate Fury or "explaining why Fury was suddenly black now" (which he wasn't - Ultimate Fury and MCU Fury were black, but they're separate characters from regular Marvel continuity Fury, who was still white), but Marvel wanting to replace Fury with a black man also called Nick Fury because "new readers coming from the movies would be used to Fury being black". It was dumb, the comic was pretty awful, and fans did absolutely complain about it.

Why do people write "explanatory" posts about things they know nothing about?
Lmao I admit I kind of skimmed it. But yeah, looking closely at the article, it's kind of clear the writer doesn't know what they're talking about.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: With DB targeting a more international audience nowadays, do you see a minority someday becoming part of the main ca

Post by Anonymous Friend » Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:51 pm

FPSSJ4_Goku wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:31 pm
Anonymous Friend wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:13 pm Glad I'm not the only one who missings white Fury. The Sam Jackson is a good version, but the white one is a very different beast of a bastard.

When it comes to race lifts, they know what their doing. 99% of the time, you're trying to gain favor with that race and hopes that you'll gain more _________ audience because you have a _____________ character. Which did/does work short term sometimes because there are plenty of people who fall for it. But is it worth risking the alien nation of current fans when that's the only reasonable reason.

I remember when black Fury started. In an interviewtwo decades again, they said they did it because they thought Jackson was the coolest, baddest MF'er there was. There are some cases where an impassioned actor makes a wild pitch for the role. But most times it's attempts at pandering.
That could come off as you being a white supremacist to a certain group of people....
Are you saying that Clayton Bigsby might have some company?
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Re: With DB targeting a more international audience nowadays, do you see a minority someday becoming part of the main ca

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:34 pm

Anonymous Friend wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:51 pm
FPSSJ4_Goku wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:31 pm
Anonymous Friend wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:13 pm Glad I'm not the only one who missings white Fury. The Sam Jackson is a good version, but the white one is a very different beast of a bastard.

When it comes to race lifts, they know what their doing. 99% of the time, you're trying to gain favor with that race and hopes that you'll gain more _________ audience because you have a _____________ character. Which did/does work short term sometimes because there are plenty of people who fall for it. But is it worth risking the alien nation of current fans when that's the only reasonable reason.

I remember when black Fury started. In an interviewtwo decades again, they said they did it because they thought Jackson was the coolest, baddest MF'er there was. There are some cases where an impassioned actor makes a wild pitch for the role. But most times it's attempts at pandering.
That could come off as you being a white supremacist to a certain group of people....
Are you saying that Clayton Bigsby might have some company?
I don't know who that is
So, you decided to read my signature, eh?

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Re: With DB targeting a more international audience nowadays, do you see a minority someday becoming part of the main ca

Post by KingVegetto » Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:59 pm

FPSSJ4_Goku wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:34 pm
Anonymous Friend wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:51 pm
FPSSJ4_Goku wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:31 pm

That could come off as you being a white supremacist to a certain group of people....
Are you saying that Clayton Bigsby might have some company?
I don't know who that is
It's a character from a Chappelle's show sketch, the gag is that he's a black man that happens to be the head of a local KKK chapter but is blind himself so he does not realize the hate white people have for him(or something like that, been a while since i've seen the sketch).

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