How can Vegeta's fans.....

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dva_raza
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How can Vegeta's fans.....

Post by dva_raza » Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:59 pm

Argue that Toriyama hates Vegeta when he made him beat his beloved protagonist? (in a pretty humiliating way I might add)

This makes no sense to me

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MasenkoHA
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Re: How can Vegeta's fans.....

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:38 pm

When does that happen?

I know that rumor used to float around but it was never something Vegets fans exclusively and excessively echoed.

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Re: How can Vegeta's fans.....

Post by dva_raza » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:45 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:38 pm When does that happen?

I know that rumor used to float around but it was never something Vegets fans exclusively and excessively echoed.
Are you talking about his win or the claim Toriyama hates Vegeta?

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Re: How can Vegeta's fans.....

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:49 pm

Well, how does one even police a nebulous, formless thing like 'fans of [concept]? Heck, why?
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Re: How can Vegeta's fans.....

Post by fleahop » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:50 pm

Vegeta never beat Goku if that's what you're getting at. Not by Vegeta's own standards.

He "beat" Goku in their first encounter using a form he didn't like and his opponent couldn't access. He didn't feel like he won that fight judging by his grudge.

As for their rematch during the Buu saga, that was also not a win in Vegeta's eyes as Goku was holding back SSJ3 AND Vegeta was buffed by Majin magic. So no he doesn't consider that a victory either.

Hell he makes it pretty clear that he's always chasing Goku until rather recently in the story.

Edit: I'm a Vegeta fan and I don't think Toriyama hates him. So idk what you're getting at.
Last edited by fleahop on Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How can Vegeta's fans.....

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:53 pm

dva_raza wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:45 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:38 pm When does that happen?

I know that rumor used to float around but it was never something Vegets fans exclusively and excessively echoed.
Are you talking about his win or the claim Toriyama hates Vegeta?
I feel like the second half of my post gives context for the first.

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Re: How can Vegeta's fans.....

Post by dva_raza » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:58 pm

fleahop wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:50 pm Vegeta never beat Goku if that's what you're getting at. Not by Vegeta's own standards.

He "beat" Goku in their first encounter using a form he didn't like and his opponent couldn't access. He didn't feel like he won that fight judging by his grudge.

As for their rematch during the Buu saga, that was also not a win in Vegeta's eyes as Goku was holding back SSJ3 AND Vegeta was buffed by Majin magic. So no he doesn't consider that a victory either.

Hell he makes it pretty clear that he's always chasing Goku until rather recently in the story.
Not it's not what I'm getting at at all. I agree 100% Vegeta didn't win in the second fight. The first one, I understand Vegeta doesn't see it as a win but he did win, dishonorably imo, but he won clearly one on one against Goku.

But nevertheless. That was not my point. I am referring to Vegeta's Fanboys (the ones who are always dissatisfied and whine about "Toriyama hating Vegeta"), literally anywhere, on any video in the comment section, on discussion boards, they brag that Vegeta won BOTH TIMES agains Goku. Everytime as see those posts the first thing that comes to mind is, then what are you complaining about ?

That was my point basically
Last edited by dva_raza on Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How can Vegeta's fans.....

Post by dva_raza » Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:00 pm

fleahop wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:50 pm

Edit: I'm a Vegeta fan and I don't think Toriyama hates him. So idk what you're getting at.
I'm getting at simply what I see all over the internet. You might be one of the exceptions but I find it strange you are honestly oblivious to the fact that Vegeta has a very dissatisfied fanbase

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Re: How can Vegeta's fans.....

Post by dva_raza » Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:03 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:53 pm
dva_raza wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:45 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:38 pm When does that happen?

I know that rumor used to float around but it was never something Vegets fans exclusively and excessively echoed.
Are you talking about his win or the claim Toriyama hates Vegeta?
I feel like the second half of my post gives context for the first.
Well it doesn't, not to me, which is why I asked. Maybe because english is not my first language so don't understand which you are referring to.

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Re: How can Vegeta's fans.....

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:11 pm

dva_raza wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:03 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:53 pm
dva_raza wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:45 pm

Are you talking about his win or the claim Toriyama hates Vegeta?
I feel like the second half of my post gives context for the first.
Well it doesn't, not to me, which is why I asked. Maybe because english is not my first language so don't understand which you are referring to.
My apologies let me elaborate.


Vegeta fans claiming Toriyama hates Vegeta is not a thing.

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Re: How can Vegeta's fans.....

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:59 pm

Well you did say "fanboys" in one of your follow-up comments here, so that sort of answers the question. Fanboys are known to go overboard in favor of making their favorite character look better than everyone else. That's the case with any of the characters, particularly Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, and Z Broly. But actual Vegeta fans? I honestly never see them saying Toriyama hates Vegeta. Maybe I'm being pedantic, but for me fanboy and fan have two very different definitions. Speaking as someone who is a fan of Vegeta (although he's further down the list of my favorites than he used to be).
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: How can Vegeta's fans.....

Post by dva_raza » Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:03 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:59 pm Well you did say "fanboys," so that sort of answers the question. Fanboys are known to go overboard in favor of making their favorite character look better than everyone else. That's the case with any of the characters, particularly Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, and Z Broly. But actual Vegeta fans? I honestly never see them saying Toriyama hates Vegeta. Speaking as someone who is a fan of Vegeta (although he's further down the list of my favorites than he used to be).
Exactly, I am specifically talking about the fanboys.
Any video I see on Youtube, any Dragon Ball discussion on reddit, also videos being made with titles like "Toriyama hates Vegeta" with fanboys explaining how Vegeta is treated unfairly, I mean it's all I see on any content regarding Goku or Vegeta.

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Re: How can Vegeta's fans.....

Post by Brodes » Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:09 pm

dva_raza wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:03 pm
Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:59 pm Well you did say "fanboys," so that sort of answers the question. Fanboys are known to go overboard in favor of making their favorite character look better than everyone else. That's the case with any of the characters, particularly Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, and Z Broly. But actual Vegeta fans? I honestly never see them saying Toriyama hates Vegeta. Speaking as someone who is a fan of Vegeta (although he's further down the list of my favorites than he used to be).
Exactly, I am specifically talking about the fanboys.
Any video I see on Youtube, any Dragon Ball discussion on reddit, also videos being made with titles like "Toriyama hates Vegeta" with fanboys explaining how Vegeta is treated unfairly, I mean it's all I see on any content regarding Goku or Vegeta.
You're biggest problems there are YouTube and Reddit. You are generally not going to find reasoned, well thought out arguments there.

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Re: How can Vegeta's fans.....

Post by dva_raza » Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:15 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:11 pm
dva_raza wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:03 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:53 pm

I feel like the second half of my post gives context for the first.
Well it doesn't, not to me, which is why I asked. Maybe because english is not my first language so don't understand which you are referring to.
My apologies let me elaborate.


Vegeta fans claiming Toriyama hates Vegeta is not a thing.

Oh well, don't mean to be rude but how is it not a "thing" when it's all over the web?
It's all over the comment section on any clip of DBZ or Super on Youtube that includes either Vegeta or Goku,
There are TONS of videos on Youtube with the titles "Toriyama hates Vegeta" with fanboys explaining how unfair Vegeta is treated.
There are tons of reddit posts saying how Vegeta is "always being humiliated" becacuse Toriyama "hates him",

I mean I agree that's not the case, my post was refering to what I've seen predominate in the online comunity to which I am new, because when I watched Dragon Ball Z years ago, youtube didn't even existed. And now I recently saw Super for the first time and became aware of all of these claims online

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Re: How can Vegeta's fans.....

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:30 am

dva_raza wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:15 pm Oh well, don't mean to be rude but how is it not a "thing" when it's all over the web?
It's all over the comment section on any clip of DBZ or Super on Youtube that includes either Vegeta or Goku,
There are TONS of videos on Youtube with the titles "Toriyama hates Vegeta" with fanboys explaining how unfair Vegeta is treated.
There are tons of reddit posts saying how Vegeta is "always being humiliated" becacuse Toriyama "hates him",

I mean I agree that's not the case, my post was refering to what I've seen predominate in the online comunity to which I am new, because when I watched Dragon Ball Z years ago, youtube didn't even existed. And now I recently saw Super for the first time and became aware of all of these claims online
Well...if you're surfing reddit threads and especially YouTube comments, you're bound to see this sort of thing. That still doesn't mean that most Vegeta fans feel that Toriyama hates Vegeta. I feel like people making videos and angry comments about that are in the vast minority, and that they belong to the "Vegeta is awesome and Goku sucks" crowd (which again, is a group whose presence is probably not even very pronounced or significant within the fandom at large. I feel like most are a fan of both characters without being extremely for or against one, but with naturally a favorite between the two). I also know there are rumors that Toriyama doesn't like the Vegeta character, but again, I don't know that there's any concrete truth to that. I think claims like that grew with how Goku "stole" Vegeta's kill against Frieza in RoF.

Honestly though...I think you're giving the people who say this more significance than they actually have, because I don't think they represent that many Dragon Ball fans. Like in the past, I've mentioned how it's become hip to hate on Goku, but I don't think that represents very many Dragon Ball fans (and this isn't so much talking about Super, where many Goku fans find problems in his characterization, but just Goku as a character in general). In fact, I think a lot of the Goku "hate" I've seen (not here, but on YouTube and social media) comes from people who either don't watch Dragon Ball or watched the dub when they were kids but outgrew the show.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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