Why does the OG Dragon Ball gets so little love from TOEI / BANDAI etc

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Re: Why does the OG Dragon Ball gets so little love from TOEI / BANDAI etc

Post by MyVisionity » Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:31 pm

I don't think that Naked Goku is a problem. I am a fan of the nudity in this series, and it would be a shame to lose it.

It's not like the Nirvana baby. Goku is a fictional cartoon character, not a real person.

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Re: Why does the OG Dragon Ball gets so little love from TOEI / BANDAI etc

Post by Shintoki » Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:05 pm

DB can be rebooted and still contain its classical content, but ultimately it would be for a different audience aka an adult one so i don't think Toei would be happy investing in an anime reboot that would be R rated at minimum.
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Re: Why does the OG Dragon Ball gets so little love from TOEI / BANDAI etc

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:32 pm

Shintoki wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:05 pm DB can be rebooted and still contain its classical content, but ultimately it would be for a different audience aka an adult one so i don't think Toei would be happy investing in an anime reboot that would be R rated at minimum.
If they did that they could only make such a thing for two different types of adults: men who hate women or actively lean into eroticism and make the work pornographic.
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Re: Why does the OG Dragon Ball gets so little love from TOEI / BANDAI etc

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:17 pm

MyVisionity wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:31 pm I don't think that Naked Goku is a problem. I am a fan of the nudity in this series, and it would be a shame to lose it.

It's not like the Nirvana baby. Goku is a fictional cartoon character, not a real person.
It's not portrayed offensively per se, but I don't understand what kind of appeal 12-year-old Goku's wee-wee adds to the show for someone to be a fan of it.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Why does the OG Dragon Ball gets so little love from TOEI / BANDAI etc

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:23 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:17 pm
MyVisionity wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:31 pm I don't think that Naked Goku is a problem. I am a fan of the nudity in this series, and it would be a shame to lose it.

It's not like the Nirvana baby. Goku is a fictional cartoon character, not a real person.
It's not portrayed offensively per se, but I don't understand what kind of appeal 12-year-old Goku's wee-wee adds to the show for someone to be a fan of it.
I always just took it as something that felt natural. Like little kids have no sense of modesty until they’re like I dunno 5? And Goku wasn’t taught social norms. So it made sense for him to have no qualms parading around with his little nyiobo out.


There’s no reason we need to see Goku’s junk but it makes sense that it’s there.

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Re: Why does the OG Dragon Ball gets so little love from TOEI / BANDAI etc

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:26 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:23 pm
Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:17 pm
MyVisionity wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:31 pm I don't think that Naked Goku is a problem. I am a fan of the nudity in this series, and it would be a shame to lose it.

It's not like the Nirvana baby. Goku is a fictional cartoon character, not a real person.
It's not portrayed offensively per se, but I don't understand what kind of appeal 12-year-old Goku's wee-wee adds to the show for someone to be a fan of it.
I always just took it as something that felt natural. Like little kids have no sense of modesty until they’re like I dunno 5? And Goku wasn’t taught social norms. So it made sense for him to have no qualms parading around with his little nyiobo out.


There’s no reason we need to see Goku’s junk but it makes sense that it’s there.
That part I actually understand. I took MyVisionity's comment as saying Goku's actual junk was also warranted. But the nudity itself served a function. I just finished the re-watching 21st Budokai arc in the anime where Goku woke up after Roshi/Jackie Chun destroyed the moon and was laughing like crazy at him standing there naked without a care in the world, while the crowd laughed. I just don't think the show would lose that comedic effect without the junk being visible, but it's not something I'd say is a necessary change either.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Why does the OG Dragon Ball gets so little love from TOEI / BANDAI etc

Post by MyVisionity » Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:57 pm

I was just talking about naked Goku in general, not focusing so much on the genitals themselves. But if there's going to a full frontal shot, I see no reason to edit out the dicknballs. If he's gonna be naked, let him be naked.

Interesting that in later episodes, they do often obscure the genitals behind things or just stick to shots from behind. Maybe Toei's standards began to change.

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Re: Why does the OG Dragon Ball gets so little love from TOEI / BANDAI etc

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:08 am

MyVisionity wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:57 pm I was just talking about naked Goku in general, not focusing so much on the genitals themselves. But if there's going to a full frontal shot, I see no reason to edit out the dicknballs. If he's gonna be naked, let him be naked.

Interesting that in later episodes, they do often obscure the genitals behind things or just stick to shots from behind. Maybe Toei's standards began to change.
Later episodes of early Dragon Ball?

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Re: Why does the OG Dragon Ball gets so little love from TOEI / BANDAI etc

Post by MyVisionity » Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:32 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:08 am
MyVisionity wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:57 pm I was just talking about naked Goku in general, not focusing so much on the genitals themselves. But if there's going to a full frontal shot, I see no reason to edit out the dicknballs. If he's gonna be naked, let him be naked.

Interesting that in later episodes, they do often obscure the genitals behind things or just stick to shots from behind. Maybe Toei's standards began to change.
Later episodes of early Dragon Ball?
There's an episode during Goku's training with God where they cover up the genitals with a bush or tree branch in a close up shot, which I find odd.

And of course in DBZ while there is nudity you don't get the frontal shots just bare ass.

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Re: Why does the OG Dragon Ball gets so little love from TOEI / BANDAI etc

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:36 am

MyVisionity wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:32 am
MasenkoHA wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:08 am
MyVisionity wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:57 pm I was just talking about naked Goku in general, not focusing so much on the genitals themselves. But if there's going to a full frontal shot, I see no reason to edit out the dicknballs. If he's gonna be naked, let him be naked.

Interesting that in later episodes, they do often obscure the genitals behind things or just stick to shots from behind. Maybe Toei's standards began to change.
Later episodes of early Dragon Ball?
There's an episode during Goku's training with God where they cover up the genitals with a bush or tree branch in a close up shot, which I find odd.

And of course in DBZ while there is nudity you don't get the frontal shots just bare ass.
In the case of Z Goku is an adult so clearly there’s a difference between “innocent child nudity “ and a “grown man’s dick”. You still see Gohan’s penis a few times as a child in Z and baby Broli and Trunks. So it’s not like they changed their standards. And Goku’s penis makes a return in GT

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Re: Why does the OG Dragon Ball gets so little love from TOEI / BANDAI etc

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:19 am

The Dragon Ball Z "brand" is simply much more popular and bankable for distributors like Toei and Bandai. That's not to say there isn't a market to advertise for "OG Dragon Ball". It just doesn't have a "gimmick" to associate with it as Super Saiyan does for the "Z" portion of the story, to push merch.

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Re: Why does the OG Dragon Ball gets so little love from TOEI / BANDAI etc

Post by TheMajinRedComet » Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:29 pm

I think its pretty obvious that most of the north American and Japanese merch we get is based on worldwide popularity trends. When it comes to merch it goes DBZ, S, GT then OG. Now I have no understanding why Xenoverse completely ignores OG. It would take nearly zero effort to make a King Piccolo or a end series Goku skins.
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Re: Why does the OG Dragon Ball gets so little love from TOEI / BANDAI etc

Post by KingVegetto » Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:41 pm

jjgp1112 wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:05 am
MasenkoHA wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:49 am
Saiya6Cit wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:31 am

Original Dragon Ball needs a reboot and one that has to be "cleaner".
It doesn’t need a reboot. But if it were to get one, yes it would be a good idea to not have the questionable content of the 86 series included.
, now that even the nervermind baby is suing! https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-58327844
Not sure how the Nirvana baby making an excuse to get more money by being lawsuit happy is relevant?
Especially considering he was more than happy to do a photoshoot about it recently :lol:
Am I the only one who always found that album cover creepy as hell? It always struck me as weird that people found the original cover of Scorpions "Virgin Killer" ultra-controversial yet few people batted an eye at Nevermind's cover.

Anyways i'm in agreement with others in that DB is simply too outdated in terms of its attitudes to really appeal to many people today with all of its creepy sexual humor, some of which is problematic even for the time it originally came out. Plus it takes a while for the action stuff to kick in and a fair amount of viewers won't have the patience to stick around for that long, I remember watching the show on Toonami as a kid and being caught off-guard by how different it felt from Z, so it's easy to see why the series isn't a top priority for a lot of distributors. Z by comparison is more violent but has way less problematic sexual stuff, Roshi gets a creepy scene occasionally but those are easy enough to edit out, it's not like it's almost impossible to work around like in the beginning of DB(no wonder Harmony Gold gave up after only 5 episodes).

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Re: Why does the OG Dragon Ball gets so little love from TOEI / BANDAI etc

Post by Saiya6Cit » Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:34 am

Anonymous Friend wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:09 pm
Saiya6Cit wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:31 am I said something similar to this and got bashed at another topic, but I still think this firmly:

Original Dragon Ball needs a reboot and one that has to be "cleaner".
The reality is DB came out in 1986 and it was for a japanese society of that time. The world as it is today would never accept Roshi's behavior, underage Bulma lifting skirts and being touched by Yamcha as well as Goku's nudity, now that even the nervermind baby is suing! https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-58327844


Making dragon ball Kai and DBZ videogames has been a nice way to keep the story of dragon ball Z current. You know how kakarot the videogame is in reality a summary of the DBZ sagas, maybe we need a videogame of original DB and people will be more fond of it and the companies that you mentioned would invest on DB...
You say that and it's true but them we have plenty of underaged TikTokThots that no one really does anything about. Roshi being a pervert and getting beat down for it could potentially work. Goku definitely couldn't be nude. Accidental groping are mainstream anime tropes that will never go away.

All of these can be reasonably removed from broadcast though. OG DB's main issue is that it's a really old show. And it was already old when Toonami first aired it after Dragon Ball Z original run. It has less of the high energy and pop! That DBZ and the other anime that came over after Z and are currently watched. Which is a shame because it has the same buildup and beats as all other fighting anime.
Yes, TikTok is full of bad things for underage people, even Youtube Kids is facing legal issues as we speak and people that make a living out of corrupting young minds always find sneaky ways to break security but that is beyond our hands. But I really want the world to leave DB alone and in peace, and people will continue to attack dragon ball for something that was OK in Japan in 1986 but it is unacceptable worldwide in 2021, however it is in Toei Animation's hands to create a clean reboot of original DB and if I were them, I would be already producing it.


MasenkoHA wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:49 am
Saiya6Cit wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:31 am

Original Dragon Ball needs a reboot and one that has to be "cleaner".
It doesn’t need a reboot. But if it were to get one, yes it would be a good idea to not have the questionable content of the 86 series included.
, now that even the nervermind baby is suing! https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-58327844
Not sure how the Nirvana baby making an excuse to get more money by being lawsuit happy is relevant?
It was to serve as an example of Goku's nudity. It is frequently shown in original DB (also in DBGT btw) and for many years no one cared because no one would sexualize babies, but apparently that changed. The Nirvana baby cover album came out in 1991, those years are far behind, now if you put kids genitals it is illegal, that is why the guy is placing a lawsuit, so technically in some parts of the world original DB is forbiden for the mere fact that it shows child nudity.

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Re: Why does the OG Dragon Ball gets so little love from TOEI / BANDAI etc

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:41 am

Saiya6Cit wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:34 am

It was to serve as an example of Goku's nudity. It is frequently shown in original DB (also in DBGT btw) and for many years no one cared because no one would sexualize babies, but apparently that changed. The Nirvana baby cover album came out in 1991, those years are far behind, now if you put kids genitals it is illegal, that is why the guy is placing a lawsuit, so technically in some parts of the world original DB is forbiden for the mere fact that it shows child nudity.
The lawsuit is because he wants money.
Nothing more. Nothing less

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Re: Why does the OG Dragon Ball gets so little love from TOEI / BANDAI etc

Post by MyVisionity » Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:12 pm

Saiya6Cit wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:34 am It was to serve as an example of Goku's nudity. It is frequently shown in original DB (also in DBGT btw) and for many years no one cared because no one would sexualize babies, but apparently that changed. The Nirvana baby cover album came out in 1991, those years are far behind, now if you put kids genitals it is illegal, that is why the guy is placing a lawsuit, so technically in some parts of the world original DB is forbiden for the mere fact that it shows child nudity.
Goku is a cartoon character, not a real life human being. Are cartoon genitals considered illegal around the world?

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Re: Why does the OG Dragon Ball gets so little love from TOEI / BANDAI etc

Post by ZeroIsOurHero » Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:26 pm

MyVisionity wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:12 pm
Saiya6Cit wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:34 am It was to serve as an example of Goku's nudity. It is frequently shown in original DB (also in DBGT btw) and for many years no one cared because no one would sexualize babies, but apparently that changed. The Nirvana baby cover album came out in 1991, those years are far behind, now if you put kids genitals it is illegal, that is why the guy is placing a lawsuit, so technically in some parts of the world original DB is forbiden for the mere fact that it shows child nudity.
Goku is a cartoon character, not a real life human being. Are cartoon genitals considered illegal around the world?
Yeah, I feel like people need to understand that cartoon characters don't abide by real world laws. This especially comes up whenever people start sexualizing underage characters. Like, I don't get off to any of that loli crap, but if you think sexualizing a big-eye cartoon character that's supposed to be 14 is anywhere near as bad as sexualizing a real 14 year old, you really need a reality check.

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Re: Why does the OG Dragon Ball gets so little love from TOEI / BANDAI etc

Post by Shaddy » Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:35 pm

Something doesn't need to be "as bad" as real-world pedophilia to still be bad enough that it shouldn't be in a given series.

The real argument should be that nudity is not inherently sexual and that the framing, context and portrayal of a given scene can completely change its perception. I mean, I'm still not really comfortable with Goku's baby dick in the early series, but I don't think of it as legitimately creepy the way I do about the way GT treats Pan, for example.

Also, I dunno about the Nirvana lawsuit being "just for money". If an incredibly famous and well-recognized album contains a photo of your own infant genitals on its cover, I think being uncomfortable is completely justified, as is taking action against those who coerced you into it as a child who wouldn't understand the implications and ramifications of such a thing.

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Re: Why does the OG Dragon Ball gets so little love from TOEI / BANDAI etc

Post by MyVisionity » Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:58 pm

Agree about nudity not being inherently sexual.

I love the naked Goku scenes, and wish there were more later on in the Z-era. The nudity in the series alternates between charming, hilarious, and deep/dramatic depending upon its usage. DB is definitely a series fit for nudity.

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Re: Why does the OG Dragon Ball gets so little love from TOEI / BANDAI etc

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Oct 23, 2021 12:11 am

Shaddy wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:35 pm Something doesn't need to be "as bad" as real-world pedophilia to still be bad enough that it shouldn't be in a given series.

The real argument should be that nudity is not inherently sexual and that the framing, context and portrayal of a given scene can completely change its perception. I mean, I'm still not really comfortable with Goku's baby dick in the early series, but I don't think of it as legitimately creepy the way I do about the way GT treats Pan, for example.

Also, I dunno about the Nirvana lawsuit being "just for money". If an incredibly famous and well-recognized album contains a photo of your own infant genitals on its cover, I think being uncomfortable is completely justified, as is taking action against those who coerced you into it as a child who wouldn't understand the implications and ramifications of such a thing.
Yeah, the Gokuu stuff doesn't feel inherently sexual to me but there's something clearly sexual about, say, Doltacki's scenes (clearly a reference to Otaku) or that scene with the deer sticking its snout under Pan's shirt.
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