What is the drama with Resurrection F?

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

How the fuck is this movie already six years old? I still remember the shit storm over Blue Goku getting hurt by Sorbet's ring beam like it was yesterday.

[Demon Prince Piccolo]

How the fuck is this movie already six years old? I still remember the shit storm over Blue Goku getting hurt by Sorbet's ring beam like it was yesterday.

I almost remember even more complaining about that than about Vegeta not getting the kill. But yeah, time really flies. 2015 does NOT feel like six years ago...although so much has changed since then so in some ways it does.

[Koitsukai]

What I remember the most is how people kept wondering about what form was stronger Red or Blue. That went on for quite a while. That's why you have to stick to numbers for forms, Toriyama, we are dragonball fans!

[Grimlock]

Well, that'd explain why Super Saiyan 4 is conveniently called "Super Saiyan 4" instead of "Super Saiyan Primal" or some other word. We wouldn't know it's a stronger form than Super Saiyan 3 otherwise.

But really, you first get a form called "Super Saiyan God" and then a form called "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" (and with Dragon Ball always being about progress, not a single transformation was debuted while being weaker than its predecessor), was that really hard to understand which form is stronger? Especially with the explanation provided...

[PurestEvil]

People were confused about the power scaling between SSG and SSGSS??? Were they on crack when they saw the movie?!

[Koitsukai]

I've seen threads in this forum, old threads and people were convinced SSRED >>> SSB.

DBS cleared that up for good.

[BootyCheeksJohnson]

Pretty sure this is old news now. Like, really old news. If there was drama it ended years ago.
I think Vegeta being the one to take out Freeza would have made sense given their shared history and going down different paths, reforming, ect. But, Toriyama decided to go with a cheeky comedic kill because he likes to troll the audience. And, as cheap as it was it got a good laugh out of me for what it's worth.

[dva_raza]

Pretty sure this is old news now. Like, really old news. If there was drama it ended years ago.
I think Vegeta being the one to take out Freeza would have made sense given their shared history and going down different paths, reforming, ect. But, Toriyama decided to go with a cheeky comedic kill because he likes to troll the audience. And, as cheap as it was it got a good laugh out of me for what it's worth.

Well it's not old news if it's being constantly brought up now. Videos being made about it, fans complaining on discussions about the current manga, etc, it's something that's being constantly brought up now. If it wasn't I wouldn't had found out about it, because I wasn't even aware of the movie when it came out

[Kataphrut]

People were confused about the power scaling between SSG and SSGSS??? Were they on crack when they saw the movie?!

I remember thinking that at the time. It was based on two things, one that SSG got a better showing since it appeared to be able to stand up to Beerus, while Blue had kind of a slow start against the much weaker Golden Freeza. Second, that because God needed a ritual while Blue could be done at will, it seemed like God might inherently be more special and require more effort.

In hindsight it's obvious that the newer thing would be better, that's just what people thought.

[Koitsukai]

People were confused about the power scaling between SSG and SSGSS??? Were they on crack when they saw the movie?!

I remember thinking that at the time. It was based on two things, one that SSG got a better showing since it appeared to be able to stand up to Beerus, while Blue had kind of a slow start against the much weaker Golden Freeza. Second, that because God needed a ritual while Blue could be done at will, it seemed like God might inherently be more special and require more effort.

In hindsight it's obvious that the newer thing would be better, that's just what people thought.

The notion of SSG from BoG being a particular stronger form due to the ritual is something that is still flying around. There was a thread, not too long ago, wondering if BoG SSG >> ToP/Broly SSG, or something like that.

[Cipher]

Goku stealing the kill was one of my favourite parts of RoF. It was just funny, especially Vegeta having 0 context why Goku decided to do such an asshole move

Situational humor?

In my DB??

But yes, that is definitely the intended thrust of the beat. Like a lot of "F," however (which I do like!), it's a little more funny to look at the script and basic beats and imagine the timing with which Toriyama probably intended/would have delivered them, which doesn't always come through in the film's fairly staid, somewhat self-serious directing.

(Though it all still comes through enough that I think it remains head and shoulders more enjoyable than any of the original-run Z films.)

[PurestEvil]

You know what, I think RoF would have been better if it was a simple comedy. The plot structure had the potential to be one IMO.

[BWri]

If his victims never got THEIR revenge, why does Vegeta deserve his?

That's a really good quote and an even better question. I guess the only difference is Frieza's victims were never in a position to get said revenge, but Vegeta had the power to at the time of RoF, once Frieza's power waned during his fight with Goku.

I don't really have an answer to the main question you asked but I'll try.

I guess it's just, at this point, since the story is trying to foist Vegeta into a co-protagonist spot that we expect him to get a major victory here or there over a main villain. It just doesn't happen due to the nature of what Dragon Ball currently is. On top of that, with Vegeta being the most connected to Frieza, and not only subjugated by him but also demeaned, and ultimately killed by him; and the fact that he was Vegeta's #1 antagonist and goal for probably most of his life and the fact that Vegeta's desire and hope to be the Super Saiyan of legend or his goal of immortality was so strongly linked to his desire to topple Frieza shows that their history goes very deep and is a conflict that was once very personal for Vegeta.

Goku, on the other hand probably met and killed Frieza in the same day by comparison. And while Goku and Frieza have built quite a strong rivalry just based on actions we've seen in the story Frieza, no doubt, is Vegeta's greatest antagonist whereas for Goku, it was only Tuesday ... a very eventful Tuesday.

So I always empathized with Vegeta fans and this point of contention with the movie even if I didn't 100% share it. I do think the Frieza/Vegeta dynamic would make for a much better focus as far storytelling and drama, but that's not the direction Toriyama-san wanted to go.

[dva_raza]

If his victims never got THEIR revenge, why does Vegeta deserve his?

That's a really good quote and an even better question. I guess the only difference is Frieza's victims were never in a position to get said revenge, but Vegeta had the power to at the time of RoF, once Frieza's power waned during his fight with Goku.

I don't really have an answer to the main question you asked but I'll try.

I guess it's just, at this point, since the story is trying to foist Vegeta into a co-protagonist spot that we expect him to get a major victory here or there over a main villain. It just doesn't happen due to the nature of what Dragon Ball currently is. On top of that, with Vegeta being the most connected to Frieza, and not only subjugated by him but also demeaned, and ultimately killed by him; and the fact that he was Vegeta's #1 antagonist and goal for probably most of his life and the fact that Vegeta's desire and hope to be the Super Saiyan of legend or his goal of immortality was so strongly linked to his desire to topple Frieza shows that their history goes very deep and is a conflict that was once very personal for Vegeta.

Goku, on the other hand probably met and killed Frieza in the same day by comparison. And while Goku and Frieza have built quite a strong rivalry just based on actions we've seen in the story Frieza, no doubt, is Vegeta's greatest antagonist whereas for Goku, it was only Tuesday ... a very eventful Tuesday.

So I always empathized with Vegeta fans and this point of contention with the movie even if I didn't 100% share it. I do think the Frieza/Vegeta dynamic would make for a much better focus as far storytelling and drama, but that's not the direction Toriyama-san wanted to go.

Thank you, this is the first response I've gotten that is close to what I was hoping for when I made the post. To have someone who disagrees actually explain their perspective

I guess the only difference is Frieza's victims were never in a position to get said revenge, but Vegeta had the power to at the time of RoF,

My point was about the concept of revenge itself, and people demanding it for Vegeta when he hasn't paid his dues to the people he owes to and that seems contradictory to me, maybe even hypocritical. They victimize Vegeta when his actions as villain hold much more weight than whatever he suffered from Frieza. How is it fair that Vegeta would get a revenge when his victims aren't able to? It's not. Vegeta living a sweet life is already too much more of a revenge against Frieza that he has ever deserved.

Vegeta being the most connected to Frieza, and not only subjugated by him but also demeaned, and ultimately killed by him

I understand that with this narrative, a fan of Vegeta naturally would want a revenge for him. The thing I was trying to argue is the fact that I feel that that is a major headcanon, meaning I don't feel that Vegeta was ever a victim.
In my opinion a bad guy who is just as bad as the guy who subjected him, doesn't need revenge, like what happenes to him is actually something he has to go through so he gets a taste of what he has done to others and therefore questions his own actions and therefore is able to change, if anything I think his 'history' with Frieza saved him from living as a genocidal villain for good on planet Vegeta and accomplishing nothing. The point is I find it strange when people demand more for him that what he has already gotten without ever having to suffer any consequences of what he did previously.

[jjgp1112]

Goku stealing the kill was one of my favourite parts of RoF. It was just funny, especially Vegeta having 0 context why Goku decided to do such an asshole move

Similarly, I love the Jump special ending where Goku distracts Vegeta so he can have the glory for himself. I kinda like when they lean into Goku being John Cena-like - and it adds funnier context to the RF ending since Goku wasn't even trying to do that, but past behavior brings his intentions into doubt.