GT vs Super

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GT vs Super

Post by Kappa » Sat Oct 30, 2021 2:19 pm

Are you team Super or team GT?

I'm personally a fan of both series, but I like GT a little more because we get to see Adult Goten and Trunks.
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Re: GT vs Super

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Oct 30, 2021 2:48 pm

I like elements of both for various reasons. Pan is cute in GT (although gets shafted) and Super has these cool ideas for new characters and a few cool fights. It also has marginally better queer representation than GT, what with it's transphobia and such. It's not a competition.
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Re: GT vs Super

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sat Oct 30, 2021 2:49 pm

I wouldn't say I'm "Team" anything because...well, I just don't do that. But I can cover some of what I like/dislike about both.

Well both are drastically inferior to OG Dragon Ball and Z imho. That said, I do really enjoy both, although what I like about each is totally different. Once Super got past the recap arcs, the animation *mostly* improved, and I personally loved the U6 Tournament and all the different candy colors and opponents. Then the Recruitment/Universal Survival Arc took that a step further. Sure it was bloated and didn't really deliver on a battle royale-style tournament, but I loved it all the same, especially the new Limit Breaker opening and the new shading in the animation. I also loved both Ultra Instinct forms (especially Omen for its haunting nature and unique sense of movement), although it's a bit bittersweet because I feel like this is more or less what Super Saiyan God (Red) could have been. I like Blue, but I wish RoF and then Super didn't brush SS Red to the wayside so quickly, as I love that design and the fiery nature of its power. Really liked Damask/Goku Black and the concept of an evil Kai. Anyway, I don't really care much for the general character dynamics in Super or how Goku's stupidity is exaggerated at times; where I appreciate it falls more or less fron an action standpoint. The action in general, especially by the TOP, just feels very high-energy and wild. And I felt like episode 131 just nailed Dragon Ball across the board, down to the heartfelt moments.

With GT, I'm referring solely to the OG Japanese version, and my perspective has been directly impacted by what has come since. One thing I love about GT in contrast to Super is the new designs/outfits to show that time has passed since EoZ. And while the Black Star saga is weak, I love that there was a shift back to the adventurous tone of OG DB, and that we got Pan and Trunks as leads with Goku. SSJ4 and Golden Oozaru are my favorite transformations of the entire series; I love the whole concept of them. I actually really loved the Baby arc overall; he's one of my favorite villains of the entire franchise. I enjoy the art style/design as well (firmly rooted in that mid-late 90s/late Z aesthetic, with a darker palette). I love Goku's characterization, even when he's in his kid's body, as he feels like a seasoned veteran (similarly to in the Boo arc). I like Adult Goten's unique personality from his brother and father. The premise for the Shadow Dragon arc and consequences to overusing the Dragon Balls. The ending. And of course, the music (the score, OP/ED credits), quite possibly my favorite of the franchise. My biggest disappointment here is probably Oob being underutilized.

I think I appreciate GT a tad more because it was meant to really be an ending, and honestly, I think it delivered that well, and even where it didn't, I don't fault Toei for trying to deliver a more-or-less definitive ending. Super has mainly been cramming arcs into the 10-year timeskip. Animation aside, I'm still eager to see where Super Hero goes.
Last edited by Demon Prince Piccolo on Sat Oct 30, 2021 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: GT vs Super

Post by Kaboom » Sat Oct 30, 2021 3:13 pm

The short answer is "the advent of Super has only deepened my appreciation for GT."
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Re: GT vs Super

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sat Oct 30, 2021 3:18 pm

Kaboom wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 3:13 pm The short answer is "the advent of Super has only deepened my appreciation for GT."
Even though I probably enjoy Super more than you, that was the gist I was going for in my (much longer) post :lol:
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: GT vs Super

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Oct 30, 2021 3:33 pm

Honestly, my appreciation for GT has lessened but that has less to do with Super (which I do think is more fun) and more to do with being older and having a vastly more positive outlook on life than I did ten years ago. The more I lool at who was making it, for whom they were making it and what they were making it gets harder to be supportive. There's still ideas present that tickle my brain as a writer and art appreciator but there's also content and philosophy present that I--as an adult and media analysist--find very harmful.

Also, just kind of sucks seeing a franchise you lile peddle transphobic tropes to kids.

But hey, Super Saiyan 4 Gokuu and Vegeta are hot!
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Re: GT vs Super

Post by ABED » Sat Oct 30, 2021 3:38 pm

It's a tad simplistic but by and large Super has good execution of uninteresting and often boring ideas, whereas GT has poor execution of good ideas.
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Re: GT vs Super

Post by PurestEvil » Sat Oct 30, 2021 3:53 pm

GT, but only by a tiny little sliver. GT had only one good arc, whereas Super's best arcs were only a little above average.
Neither of them are all that good, to be honest.
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Re: GT vs Super

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat Oct 30, 2021 4:03 pm

I often find myself rewatching clips of Super when I'm bored, whereas I haven't watched a clip of GT in years. That says it all for me.

I would say that the presence of Zamasu/Goku Black definitely redeems Super for the dogshit retelling arcs, but at the same time the ToP arc is also genuinely entertaining and enjoyable.

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Re: GT vs Super

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:22 pm

I always liked GT even before Super was a thing. Didn't even hear about it get any hate or being "non canon" for years until i discovered fan community. Never really felt it was any inferior when i watched it as a kid or thought that it might not be made by the same guy. I actually liked it more than Z and i still do, even though i consider DBZ to be better overall in terms of execution of its ideas and i noticed some of GTs flaws after i got older and rewatched it. A big factor here has to be a fact my favourite form (SSJ4), favorite good character (Pan) and favorite villain (Baby) all belong to that series. Another has to be bigger focus on adventures, gag characters and return of monkeys, which is something DBZ lacked. I'm DB>DBZ guy, so i enjoyed GT bringing back at least some of OG series elements.

So i'm "team GT" here. I feel Super tried too hard to be DBZ successor that it forgot about having its own identity. I couldn't get rid of that weird feeling that i'm watching some kind of DBZ filler full of old characters returning. With GT, we got different cast and everyone changed since Z, so even when they tried to mimic early DB in first arc, it still made it somewhat unique experience. That is something Super missed for me, focusing too much on sticking to things people know and like, bringing back popular characters like Trunks or 17, being afraid of more significant changes for majority of time. One example here is getting rid of RoF outfits for Goku and Vegeta after U6 arc for unknown reasons, even though they were cool. Also having 2 movie retelling didn't help it at all + i was never big fan of tournaments so that kinda left me with only one new story arc, which was Zamasu arc, that just didn't please me. I'm not sure if making DBS a "midquel" was good idea cause series had some big limitations because of that, like they couldn't kill Piccolo or Buu permamently like GT, so you could watch DBS but you always knew everything is going to be okay in the end which heavily impacted any tension and feel of danger.

Anyway, why is it always "GT vs Super" but never "GT vs Z" or "Super vs Z"? I dislike Super, but even it has some things better than Z for me. I feel like these two always have to fight for "less shitty sequel" title. Saying GT or Super is your favorite series is basically exposing yourself to tons of hate in community even though there is NOTHING wrong with saying that. Maybe not here, but try saying that on youtube or facebook lol, enjoy getting eaten :lol:
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Re: GT vs Super

Post by ABED » Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:31 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:22 pm I always liked GT even before Super was a thing. Didn't even hear about it get any hate or being "non canon" for years until i discovered fan community. Never really felt it was any inferior when i watched it as a kid or thought that it might not be made by the same guy. I actually liked it more than Z and i still do, even though i consider DBZ to be better overall in terms of execution of its ideas and i noticed some of GTs flaws after i got older and rewatched it. A big factor here has to be a fact my favourite form (SSJ4), favorite good character (Pan) and favorite villain (Baby) all belong to that series. Another has to be bigger focus on adventures, gag characters and return of monkeys, which is something DBZ lacked. I'm DB>DBZ guy, so i enjoyed GT bringing back at least some of OG series elements.

So i'm "team GT" here. I feel Super tried too hard to be DBZ successor that it forgot about having its own identity. I couldn't get rid of that weird feeling that i'm watching some kind of DBZ filler full of old characters returning. With GT, we got different cast and everyone changed since Z, so even when they tried to mimic early DB in first arc, it still made it somewhat unique experience. That is something Super missed for me, focusing too much on sticking to things people know and like, bringing back popular characters like Trunks or 17, being afraid of more significant changes for majority of time. One example here is getting rid of RoF outfits for Goku and Vegeta after U6 arc for unknown reasons, even though they were cool. Also having 2 movie retelling didn't help it at all + i was never big fan of tournaments so that kinda left me with only one new story arc, which was Zamasu arc, that just didn't please me. I'm not sure if making DBS a "midquel" was good idea cause series had some big limitations because of that, like they couldn't kill Piccolo or Buu permamently like GT, so you could watch DBS but you always knew everything is going to be okay in the end which heavily impacted any tension and feel of danger.

Anyway, why is it always "GT vs Super" but never "GT vs Z" or "Super vs Z"? I dislike Super, but even it has some things better than Z for me. I feel like these two always have to fight for "less shitty sequel" title. Saying GT or Super is your favorite series is basically exposing yourself to tons of hate in community even though there is NOTHING wrong with saying that. Maybe not here, but try saying that on youtube or facebook lol, enjoy getting eaten :lol:
I mean, they're sequel series so they don't have to have their own identity. DBZ didn't have its own identity separate from DB.
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Re: GT vs Super

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:37 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:22 pm I always liked GT even before Super was a thing. Didn't even hear about it get any hate or being "non canon" for years until i discovered fan community. Never really felt it was any inferior when i watched it as a kid or thought that it might not be made by the same guy. I actually liked it more than Z and i still do, even though i consider DBZ to be better overall in terms of execution of its ideas and i noticed some of GTs flaws after i got older and rewatched it. A big factor here has to be a fact my favourite form (SSJ4), favorite good character (Pan) and favorite villain (Baby) all belong to that series. Another has to be bigger focus on adventures, gag characters and return of monkeys, which is something DBZ lacked. I'm DB>DBZ guy, so i enjoyed GT bringing back at least some of OG series elements.
SSJ4 is for sure my favorite form as well. From design to the lore/how the transformation itself happens. I recently stumbled across some of the Limit Breakers action figures at my local Barnes & Noble, and the only one I cared to buy was SSJ4 Goku. My favorite villain is Piccolo Daimao/Piccolo Jr., probably followed by Lord Freeza...but I think Baby is a close 3rd. I love his introduction, backstory, and he's just genuinely creepy. I definitely prefer him to Cell (2nd and Perfect forms anyway) and probably even Boo. I've never watched it right after Z, but as I'm currently watching OG DB, I'm looking forward to going from Z to GT, then Super just to see how GT works coming right after Z like it was originally released (I watched Super first).
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: GT vs Super

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:47 pm

GT had some interesting ideas, but man, the execution of them was not good. It's annoying that the reason why Pan never went Super Saiyan was because she needed to be a damsel in distress.

There are some good things about it, like the Japanese soundtrack. The Shenron themes are fantastic pieces of music. Then you also have Dan Dan Kokoro, a beautiful song that I just can't get enough of. Don't You See! is fantastic. Izumi Sakai had such a lovely voice.

Super isn't perfect and is definitely flawed, but at least I had fun with it, and at least characters other than Goku get to shine, the ToP Arc being an example of that. I particularly love when 18 beats Ribrianne, Roshi's most powerful Kamehameha and Gohan and Piccolo beating the Universe 6 Nameks. All great moments. Even Yamcha gets a baseball episode where he gets to shine, and I love that.
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Re: GT vs Super

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:54 pm

ABED wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:31 pm I mean, they're sequel series so they don't have to have their own identity. DBZ didn't have its own identity separate from DB.
Perhaps i didn't pick proper word here. What i meant is that i never felt i'm watching something different and new. I had that feeling watching Z even though manga was always just "Dragon Ball" which is kinda funny. But it changed cast a bit by introducing Gohan as well as Piccolo as ally. We learned about Goku and Piccolo being aliens, we saw them travel to different planet, were introduced to transformations, everything had different tone and biggest stakes. It totally felt like a different journey than what we got before. Also Goku was adult here for entire series which also was different. I feel there is a reason why TOEI made it a different series because it was different.

Maybe DBS would've felt better to me if it was what i actually thought it would be and that is Goku and others actually travelling to other universes. One example - Instead of Zamasu arc happening in future timeline, which isn't anything new, why couldn't it happen in actual universe Zamasu came from? That would help a lot. I never felt DBS made any good use of concepts it introduced. We didn't even get Vegeta visiting U6 saiyans in their universe. The same problem with god ki. It seemed fresh at first, but in the end it was just another powerup as most of antagonists in DBS didn't even have god ki. Except for UI, i never felt Goku evolved further than just becoming stronger as god ki had absolutely no meaning for most of series after first arc.
Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:37 pm My favorite villain is Piccolo Daimao/Piccolo Jr., probably followed by Lord Freeza...but I think Baby is a close 3rd. I love his introduction, backstory, and he's just genuinely creepy. I definitely prefer him to Cell (2nd and Perfect forms anyway) and probably even Boo.
Piccolo Daimao is probably my 2nd favorite after Baby tbh. Third one would be Buu because of how many different versions of him we got and his weird but cool powers.
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Re: GT vs Super

Post by Shaddy » Sat Oct 30, 2021 6:58 pm

GT is too predictable and too boring for me to appreciate much of anything about it. Super is full of stupid bullshit nonsense, but it does way more to keep you on your toes and feels more authentically "Toriyama" than most of what Toei makes. It's the difference between a bad show, and a bad show that also drags its feet way more despite being less than half as long.

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Re: GT vs Super

Post by TheGreatness25 » Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:27 pm

If I had to pick, team Super. There's just more to sink my teeth into. It's like, "Hey, do you have more fun with this series of over 130 episodes, on-going manga, and on-going movies, or the same static 64 episodes and TV special that obviously haven't changed since 1998?" It's kind of a no-brainer for me. I'm having a lot more fun exploring Super from multiple angles (series and manga) and it feels like I'm discovering it for the first time... because I am. Whereas GT happened, it came, it went, I've seen it probably three times, and that's the extent of how much fun I can have with it. It will never be revisited nor built upon, so it's pretty much dead. At least DB and Z were built upon with Kai and then retcons (say what you will, but they still opened up the door for discussion of Z, for example). Plus, GT was already handicapped by having significantly less body of work compared to DB and DBZ.

So, yeah--Super.

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Re: GT vs Super

Post by ABED » Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:06 pm

I wouldn't have nearly as much issue with GT as I do if the fights were good.
But it changed cast a bit by introducing Gohan as well as Piccolo as ally. We learned about Goku and Piccolo being aliens, we saw them travel to different planet, were introduced to transformations, everything had different tone and biggest stakes. It totally felt like a different journey than what we got before.
These were progressions from what came before which was always in a state of progression.
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Re: GT vs Super

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:27 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:27 pm If I had to pick, team Super. There's just more to sink my teeth into. It's like, "Hey, do you have more fun with this series of over 130 episodes, on-going manga, and on-going movies, or the same static 64 episodes and TV special that obviously haven't changed since 1998?" It's kind of a no-brainer for me. I'm having a lot more fun exploring Super from multiple angles (series and manga) and it feels like I'm discovering it for the first time... because I am. Whereas GT happened, it came, it went, I've seen it probably three times, and that's the extent of how much fun I can have with it. It will never be revisited nor built upon, so it's pretty much dead. At least DB and Z were built upon with Kai and then retcons (say what you will, but they still opened up the door for discussion of Z, for example). Plus, GT was already handicapped by having significantly less body of work compared to DB and DBZ.

So, yeah--Super.
Weirdly enough, this is exactly what I like about GT. It isn't really a "merit" of GT, as I think the show could have used another solid arc or two to have a better identity. But I like that it's "smaller" and that it just, well, ends. And that's it (aside from the Hero's Legacy special, which I'm a big fan of).

Super is the current thing and it's definitely more pop, flash, and excitement. And it definitely feels more fun and energetic. I just happen to enjoy the elements introduced in GT, flawed execution aside. And I just love those quieter moments present in the Baby and Shadow Dragon arcs.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: GT vs Super

Post by MyVisionity » Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:57 pm

DBZ definitely had its own identity separate from DB. Certainly the anime did, with everything the rebranding brought with it. But the story itself shifted in such a way that a new identity took form naturally. In all of the aspects that are typically associated with DBZ. That doesn't mean that their identities are entirely separate, of course, being two halves of a whole. Just that they also each have their own identity as well.

To be fair, the only reason GT has its own identity is because the manga had ended. It's like a story after a story, which inherently will have a unique identity.

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Re: GT vs Super

Post by TheGreatness25 » Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:37 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:27 pm
TheGreatness25 wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:27 pm If I had to pick, team Super. There's just more to sink my teeth into. It's like, "Hey, do you have more fun with this series of over 130 episodes, on-going manga, and on-going movies, or the same static 64 episodes and TV special that obviously haven't changed since 1998?" It's kind of a no-brainer for me. I'm having a lot more fun exploring Super from multiple angles (series and manga) and it feels like I'm discovering it for the first time... because I am. Whereas GT happened, it came, it went, I've seen it probably three times, and that's the extent of how much fun I can have with it. It will never be revisited nor built upon, so it's pretty much dead. At least DB and Z were built upon with Kai and then retcons (say what you will, but they still opened up the door for discussion of Z, for example). Plus, GT was already handicapped by having significantly less body of work compared to DB and DBZ.

So, yeah--Super.
Weirdly enough, this is exactly what I like about GT. It isn't really a "merit" of GT, as I think the show could have used another solid arc or two to have a better identity. But I like that it's "smaller" and that it just, well, ends. And that's it (aside from the Hero's Legacy special, which I'm a big fan of).

Super is the current thing and it's definitely more pop, flash, and excitement. And it definitely feels more fun and energetic. I just happen to enjoy the elements introduced in GT, flawed execution aside. And I just love those quieter moments present in the Baby and Shadow Dragon arcs.
I mean there are elements of GT that I really liked. I liked the more urban feel to it (a lot of fights took place in cities instead of empty fields) and I really liked seeing the characters aged. But with Super, I can still hold out hope that it'll happen. With GT, you know what you got and it'll never be built upon again.

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