GT vs Super

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Re: GT vs Super

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:08 pm

What does Videl actually do in Super to show any fierceness, though? She's as dull as dishwater. In GT she made more of an impression on me with her few appearances even with her look alone. And I'm not a big fan of the torture in Z, but at least she's doing something that showcases her spirit. I never felt like her femininity was sacrificed at the expense of her toughness in Z or GT.

EDIT: Actually, her red devil dress in Super is pretty cool, I won't lie. Just wish there was any notable personality to her at all in Super.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: GT vs Super

Post by PurestEvil » Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:35 pm

the most notable thing videl did in Super was call Barry Khan out for attempting to poison her marriage with Gohan
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Re: GT vs Super

Post by Dbzk1999 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:36 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:08 pm What does Videl actually do in Super to show any fierceness, though?
I would say the way she reacts to Barry Kahn’s attempt to frame Gohan for infidelity is a good example of the fierceness she still has

Edit: Oh hey look, seems like it just got mentioned above.

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Re: GT vs Super

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:53 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:08 pm What does Videl actually do in Super to show any fierceness, though? She's as dull as dishwater. In GT she made more of an impression on me with her few appearances even with her look alone. And I'm not a big fan of the torture in Z, but at least she's doing something that showcases her spirit. I never felt like her femininity was sacrificed at the expense of her toughness in Z or GT.

EDIT: Actually, her red devil dress in Super is pretty cool, I won't lie. Just wish there was any notable personality to her at all in Super.
The episode where she decides for to follow her own instincts over those of others after Pan is born and also the Barry Kahn episodes. Those were so cool really the sort of thing I want to see more of, both in small and larger scenarios.
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Re: GT vs Super

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:05 pm

Dbzk1999 wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:36 pm
Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:08 pm What does Videl actually do in Super to show any fierceness, though?
I would say the way she reacts to Barry Kahn’s attempt to frame Gohan for infidelity is a good example of the fierceness she still has

Edit: Oh hey look, seems like it just got mentioned above.
I guess so, but that was such a terrible episode that I didn't think of it.
JulieYBM wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:53 pm The episode where she decides for to follow her own instincts over those of others after Pan is born and also the Barry Kahn episodes. Those were so cool really the sort of thing I want to see more of, both in small and larger scenarios.
Those are positive character traits, maybe with a hint of her fierceness, but they don't make her interesting or dynamic to me like she was before.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: GT vs Super

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:55 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:05 pm
Dbzk1999 wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:36 pm
Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:08 pm What does Videl actually do in Super to show any fierceness, though?
I would say the way she reacts to Barry Kahn’s attempt to frame Gohan for infidelity is a good example of the fierceness she still has

Edit: Oh hey look, seems like it just got mentioned above.
I guess so, but that was such a terrible episode that I didn't think of it.
JulieYBM wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:53 pm The episode where she decides for to follow her own instincts over those of others after Pan is born and also the Barry Kahn episodes. Those were so cool really the sort of thing I want to see more of, both in small and larger scenarios.
Those are positive character traits, maybe with a hint of her fierceness, but they don't make her interesting or dynamic to me like she was before.
Being annoyed with your dumbass dad and not!boyfriend and then getting the shit kicked out of you in an extremely realistic and dehumanizing matter aren't interesting. Super at the very least doesn't portray Videl as constantly paranoid and annoyed. She's calm and confident and not afraid to beat the shit out of a douchebag if need be.
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Re: GT vs Super

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:50 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:55 pm Being annoyed with your dumbass dad and not!boyfriend and then getting the shit kicked out of you in an extremely realistic and dehumanizing matter aren't interesting. Super at the very least doesn't portray Videl as constantly paranoid and annoyed. She's calm and confident and not afraid to beat the shit out of a douchebag if need be.
She's calm and confident in Z. She might have had an "edge," but she wasn't any less confident in her abilities. And her getting beaten isn't what made her interesting. She had a much more effective presence in general. Being annoyed with her dad was great because it showed a clear contrast in her to him. What she does in Super may be good personality traits, but none of it is noteworthy as interesting or impactful character moments. She's not entertaining or engaging to watch.

This isn't just exclusive to Videl. I feel this way about characters like Tenshinhan in Super as well. Positive personality traits are nice, but they aren't what make a character pop onscreen.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: GT vs Super

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:59 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:50 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:55 pm Being annoyed with your dumbass dad and not!boyfriend and then getting the shit kicked out of you in an extremely realistic and dehumanizing matter aren't interesting. Super at the very least doesn't portray Videl as constantly paranoid and annoyed. She's calm and confident and not afraid to beat the shit out of a douchebag if need be.
She's calm and confident in Z. She might have had an "edge," but she wasn't any less confident in her abilities. And her getting beaten isn't what made her interesting. She had a much more effective presence in general. Being annoyed with her dad was great because it showed a clear contrast in her to him. What she does in Super may be good personality traits, but none of it is noteworthy as interesting or impactful character moments. She's not entertaining or engaging to watch.

This isn't just exclusive to Videl. I feel this way about characters like Tenshinhan in Super as well. Positive personality traits are nice, but they aren't what make a character pop onscreen.
It doesn't work because Videl's only two relationships are "annoyed with dad and not-but-totally-is-her-boyfriend" Which is nothing substantial to chew on at all and a frankly tired archetype coming from a writer who doesn't write more variety into the character. The difference between the original comic and Super is that what Super has isn't bad, what is bad is that Videl needs more varied storylines in addition to what she had. The problem with the original comic is that what it does have IS bad. Videl--like most Toriyama women--is written as an outsider rather than someone the audience is meant to identify with. This leads to all of her scenes being antagonistic or drop-of-a-dime wet for Gohan.
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Re: GT vs Super

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:06 pm

I don't really agree with that take. Videl being an outsider in Z is very easy to identify with. Obviously we know the Z senshi quite well, but imagine you're a person in the Dragon Ball world and you don't. Learning about them from Videl's perspective is one of the fresher aspects of the Boo arc for me. A lot of her "annoyance" with Gohan was an act...she liked him from the beginning but she had her guard up. I don't understand how that constitutes as bad writing.
Last edited by Demon Prince Piccolo on Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: GT vs Super

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:14 pm

DBS VIdel isn't really Videl, but i still like her a lot for what she is. One of few characters in Super i liked, even if she's completely different character now. GT Videl is obviously better though. She looks and acts like Videl, she even dresses up as Great Saiyaman 2 which was badass.
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Re: GT vs Super

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:20 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:14 pm DBS VIdel isn't really Videl, but i still like her a lot for what she is. One of few characters in Super i liked, even if she's completely different character now. GT Videl is obviously better though. She looks and acts like Videl, she even dresses up as Great Saiyaman 2 which was badass.
That's what I'm saying. DBS Videl is just fine...but likable and sweet alone doesn't make interesting (moment with Barry notwithstanding). She doesn't do much of note in GT either, but her presence is more akin to being the same (and imho much more dynamic) character from before, just older and more mature. Super Hero has an opportunity to give her some unique scenes with Pan, but I feel like she'll be relegated to just being a smiling, sweet mother in the background.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: GT vs Super

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:42 pm

GT doesn't have anything going for it except the music and the design of Super Saiyan 4.

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Re: GT vs Super

Post by BeaBumby » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:00 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:14 pm DBS VIdel isn't really Videl, but i still like her a lot for what she is. One of few characters in Super i liked, even if she's completely different character now. GT Videl is obviously better though. She looks and acts like Videl, she even dresses up as Great Saiyaman 2 which was badass.
The Great Saiyaman stuff is ADORABLE and I wanna see MORE
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Re: GT vs Super

Post by MCDaveG » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:59 am

Interesting concept thinking about Videl being beatdown as a needless torture, but never seen it that way just because she is a female.
It basically shown her sheer spirit with not realizing that she is out of her league and in comparison, Goku is the greatest BDSM pleasure receiver in Dragon Ball... For example, the 8th Movie with Broly is basically everyone getting tortured until a magic fist happens, it's rudiculous.

To me as a kid, it was powerful scene and Videl was sidelined afterwards basically the same way as Kuririn or Tenshinhan did, commenting from the sideways.
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Re: GT vs Super

Post by super michael » Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:40 pm

In GT Goten and Trunks can do whatever they want, no one keeps secrets from them. In DBS anime Goten and Trunks are treated so bad, everyone stops them from doing anything. They are not welcomed to train with powerful warriors, they are not given any chance to fight enemies or join any event. They are not allowed to help their allies and keep secrets from them.

In GT Pan is the main character which was good.

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Re: GT vs Super

Post by SSJgogeto » Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:27 pm

In GT Goten and Trunks are adults, in Super they are children.

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Re: GT vs Super

Post by super michael » Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:34 pm

SSJgogeto wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:27 pm In GT Goten and Trunks are adults, in Z they are children.
DBZ Goten and Trunks are children, but they can train with their family and powerful warriors. They can join tournaments and battle evil (BoG is part of Z and Yo Son Goku Ova).

GT Goten and Trunks are adults and they can battle anyone and travel anyplace. They can date anyone.

DBS Goten and Trunks are teenagers who are not allowed to train with their family at all or powerful warriors. Trunks only training partner is the Pilaf Gang if Goten isn't availabe, how pathetic is that. They are not allowed to fight evil or join in any tournaments.

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Re: GT vs Super

Post by SSJgogeto » Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:47 pm

BoG is also part of Super, so the "they are not allowed to fight evil" isn't completely true. Also, taking the End of Z in consideration, they gradually lost the desire to fight and train.

And Goten's situation in Z and Super is different. In Z, Goku was dead and Chichi was almost without money; in Super, Goku is alive and they have a lot of money.

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Re: GT vs Super

Post by super michael » Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:56 pm

SSJgogeto wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:47 pm BoG is also part of Super, so the "they are not allowed to fight evil" isn't completely true. Also, taking the End of Z in consideration, they gradually lost the desire to fight and train.

And Goten's situation in Z and Super is different. In Z, Goku was dead and Chichi was almost without money; in Super, Goku is alive and they have a lot of money.
Goten was training with Chi Chi before they knew about the tournament in Z, so money is irrelevant. Goten was allowed to train even before Gohan mentioned about the tournament and the money. Goten was allowed to spar with Trunks also. The only reason Goten didn't train with Gohan before Gohan announced the tournament is because Gohan was studying and not training.

In Yo Son Goku Ova Goku was alive and Goten was allowed to battle.
In BoG the Z fighters were alive and Goten was allowed to battle.

DBS BoG is just a retelling of DBZ BoG, so officially that is DBZ. BoG is in DBZ Kakarot which only has Z scenes, same like DBZ RoF, which DBS RoF did was just retelling.

We never saw Goten and Trunks lose interest in training and fighting in DBS, we saw the exact opposite. We saw them motivated to train and fight, they couldn't be more motivated even if they tried.

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Re: GT vs Super

Post by SSJgogeto » Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:30 pm

I didn't say it was just about the money. Goku was dead, and Chichi changed a little because of that. She even teached Goten how to fight, something unthinkable considering her behavior with Gohan.

In the OVA the enemies are weak, Goku said something like "even the children could beat then". FighterZ is a game, so whatever.

DBS BoG is a retelling of DBZ BoG, so officially that is DBS.

And Goten and Trunks COULD be more motivated if they tried. Like, a lot.

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