Is Yo! Son Goku and his friend return! Canon?

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Re: Is Yo! Son Goku and his friend return! Canon?

Post by Luso Saiyan » Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:42 am

TheGreatness25 wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:45 am I mean, I've made my points as to how I see canon. I don't think that anything that didn't come from Toriyama's pen is canon because it will never be considered in building future material. Until Toriyama is not the person driving the story, it won't be anyone else's decision either. The story can change (like the Kanzenban ending and Battle of Gods being deliberately rewritten).
The Kanzenban ending and Battle of Gods aren't comparable. Battle of Gods was deliberately rewritten by whom? When? And for what purpose?

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Re: Is Yo! Son Goku and his friend return! Canon?

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:40 am

JulieYBM wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:55 pm What's more canon, Heaven's Feel or Unlimited Blade Works? The answer is....the amount of money flowing into the bank accounts of the licensors.

There's no right answer but greed for the licensors. Capitalism has taught us this since the beginning.
Okay but this was never about capitalism at all
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Re: Is Yo! Son Goku and his friend return! Canon?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:12 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:45 am It's cool, though. If you want to think that everything or nothing is canon, that's cool. I just find it funny that pre-2015, "Only the manga matters!" but not, everything is canon or its own. But I'm curious how far this extends. Are all of the dubs their own canon? That's all official and they changed the story ranging from minor things to big things. Are the video games their own canon? Are commercials their own canon? If yes, then wow! If not, why not? What's the difference?
I mean...technically yes, since they're all an official body of work. :shifty:
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Is Yo! Son Goku and his friend return! Canon?

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:18 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:12 pm
TheGreatness25 wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:45 am It's cool, though. If you want to think that everything or nothing is canon, that's cool. I just find it funny that pre-2015, "Only the manga matters!" but not, everything is canon or its own. But I'm curious how far this extends. Are all of the dubs their own canon? That's all official and they changed the story ranging from minor things to big things. Are the video games their own canon? Are commercials their own canon? If yes, then wow! If not, why not? What's the difference?
I mean...technically yes, since they're all an official body of work. :shifty:
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Re: Is Yo! Son Goku and his friend return! Canon?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:15 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:12 pm
TheGreatness25 wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:45 am It's cool, though. If you want to think that everything or nothing is canon, that's cool. I just find it funny that pre-2015, "Only the manga matters!" but not, everything is canon or its own. But I'm curious how far this extends. Are all of the dubs their own canon? That's all official and they changed the story ranging from minor things to big things. Are the video games their own canon? Are commercials their own canon? If yes, then wow! If not, why not? What's the difference?
I mean...technically yes, since they're all an official body of work. :shifty:
That's the standard now, though? Whatever is official? How can the Dragon Ball franchise give equal weight to contradicting events? How could the Bardock special and Minus/Broli both happen? How could Super and GT exist as canon? How could any of the video games or the various Funimation dubs be canon? Are we arbitrarily assigning canon to what we feel goes together even? Who is the writer? Should the writer take everything into consideration? I feel like what I laid out was nice and simple. Yeah, it makes a lot of things inconsequential to the story, but a lot of it sure feels like it when the story ignores or contradicts certain things. I think that classifying everything as canon is just too much. The story can't take everything into consideration. And if we're mixing the idea behind Super Dragon Ball Heroes and Xenoverse and things like that, then sure--it all happens! But the story that is presented to us still doesn't follow all of it.

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Re: Is Yo! Son Goku and his friend return! Canon?

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:18 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:15 pm
Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:12 pm
TheGreatness25 wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:45 am It's cool, though. If you want to think that everything or nothing is canon, that's cool. I just find it funny that pre-2015, "Only the manga matters!" but not, everything is canon or its own. But I'm curious how far this extends. Are all of the dubs their own canon? That's all official and they changed the story ranging from minor things to big things. Are the video games their own canon? Are commercials their own canon? If yes, then wow! If not, why not? What's the difference?
I mean...technically yes, since they're all an official body of work. :shifty:
That's the standard now, though? Whatever is official? How can the Dragon Ball franchise give equal weight to contradicting events? How could the Bardock special and Minus/Broli both happen? How could Super and GT exist as canon? How could any of the video games or the various Funimation dubs be canon? Are we arbitrarily assigning canon to what we feel goes together even? Who is the writer? Should the writer take everything into consideration? I feel like what I laid out was nice and simple. Yeah, it makes a lot of things inconsequential to the story, but a lot of it sure feels like it when the story ignores or contradicts certain things. I think that classifying everything as canon is just too much. The story can't take everything into consideration. And if we're mixing the idea behind Super Dragon Ball Heroes and Xenoverse and things like that, then sure--it all happens! But the story that is presented to us still doesn't follow all of it.
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Re: Is Yo! Son Goku and his friend return! Canon?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:36 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:15 pm
Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:12 pm
TheGreatness25 wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:45 am It's cool, though. If you want to think that everything or nothing is canon, that's cool. I just find it funny that pre-2015, "Only the manga matters!" but not, everything is canon or its own. But I'm curious how far this extends. Are all of the dubs their own canon? That's all official and they changed the story ranging from minor things to big things. Are the video games their own canon? Are commercials their own canon? If yes, then wow! If not, why not? What's the difference?
I mean...technically yes, since they're all an official body of work. :shifty:
That's the standard now, though? Whatever is official? How can the Dragon Ball franchise give equal weight to contradicting events? How could the Bardock special and Minus/Broli both happen? How could Super and GT exist as canon? How could any of the video games or the various Funimation dubs be canon? Are we arbitrarily assigning canon to what we feel goes together even? Who is the writer? Should the writer take everything into consideration? I feel like what I laid out was nice and simple. Yeah, it makes a lot of things inconsequential to the story, but a lot of it sure feels like it when the story ignores or contradicts certain things. I think that classifying everything as canon is just too much. The story can't take everything into consideration. And if we're mixing the idea behind Super Dragon Ball Heroes and Xenoverse and things like that, then sure--it all happens! But the story that is presented to us still doesn't follow all of it.
You can judge it however you choose, but that doesn't mean the canon is exactly or only what you're presenting it to be. It's not like Tolkien or even Star Wars where works have been officially specified as "canon" or "non-canon." All this is proving is that you're having to do the work yourself to piece together a canon through line with Dragon Ball; that's fine if you enjoy doing that, but that's not really how it works in an official capacity with this franchise. You saying "there HAS to be a canon" and then going over the works you're judging to fit that is still just that; it's what you're determining to be canon based on your critieria. What you're judging to be non-canon is, again, your criteria, not some official one.

Again, my definition of canon (which is not something I even subscribe to, but here we are) in the case of Dragon Ball is not "everything fits together narratively" but rather official bodies of work that have "Dragon Ball" in common. If I were to try to form a "perfect canon narrative" across the different media apart from the original Toriyama manga, I'd have to break it up (which is dumb to me), and any work I deem as "official canon" or "non-canon" would still be me going off of my own criteria, no matter how sensible or obvious I thought it was. That's just how it is.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Is Yo! Son Goku and his friend return! Canon?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:03 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:18 pm
Everything happens where it happens. If something doesn't happen in one place...it doesn't happen in one place.
[/quote]

Where do the filler, movies, GT, amd several Funimation dubs "happen?" Does the present official series display any indication of acknowledging that all of those things happened?

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:36 pm
But the story is based on something, right? The story needs to have certain things that happened which are considered and some that aren't, right? In its current run--which by all evidence--is meant to be the current, present story that legitimately continues the Dragon Ball franchise, Toriyama is at the helm. He determines what canon is, not by coming out and saying it, but by the things that are written. As of now, the franchise evidently (not explicitly) cannot possibly lead to GT. The movies also could not have possibly existed. To me, that's canon. Correct me if I'm wrong, but canon is about what the definitive story is, not by you or me or the official media released, but by what defines the story.

And yes, I'm piecing it together because nobody has ever nor will anyone ever come out and say what counts and what doesn't. But at the same time, it's pretty obvious that certain things don't count in this official continuation of the story. So because nobody came out and said that some things don't count, does that mean that everything has the same amount of weight? Could the three Z Broli movies happened with the new Broli movie? No. So, somethibg isn't canon. Strong lean toward the Z movies not having happened. Could the Bardock special happened with the Broli movie? No, right? Only one could happen. Which doesn't count? The Z special. Could Battle of Gods happened with that first Super arc? No. So which doesn't count? Most likely, the one that came first, which was overtly rewritten doesn't count. Could GT happen with Super? No. What doesn't count? GT. To me, it's that simple. Or am I missing something? Could someone address this, please? I really would love to learn all about why I might be wrong about this viewpoint. And saying, "Oh, it takes place in a different timeline or different universe or whatever" would be a pure fan theory. You could say that about anything. The moon landing happened and didn't happen; Elvis is dead and alive; Batgirl is Commissioner Gordon's daughter and Alfred's niece! It can all happen because of parallel universes. But I'm talking about the DB story as it is currently presented. It can't all happen--especially when the guy who started this whole thing is writing the story.

Seriously, what is canon? Does it only separate official from unofficial? Otherwise, can't you just call it "official/unofficial?" I feel like claiming that everything is canon or nothing is canon kind of undermines the entire point.

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Re: Is Yo! Son Goku and his friend return! Canon?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:10 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:03 pm But the story is based on something, right? The story needs to have certain things that happened which are considered and some that aren't, right? In its current run--which by all evidence--is meant to be the current, present story that legitimately continues the Dragon Ball franchise, Toriyama is at the helm. He determines what canon is, not by coming out and saying it, but by the things that are written. As of now, the franchise evidently (not explicitly) cannot possibly lead to GT. The movies also could not have possibly existed. To me, that's canon. Correct me if I'm wrong, but canon is about what the definitive story is, not by you or me or the official media released, but by what defines the story.

And yes, I'm piecing it together because nobody has ever nor will anyone ever come out and say what counts and what doesn't. But at the same time, it's pretty obvious that certain things don't count in this official continuation of the story. So because nobody came out and said that some things don't count, does that mean that everything has the same amount of weight? Could the three Z Broli movies happened with the new Broli movie? No. So, somethibg isn't canon. Strong lean toward the Z movies not having happened. Could the Bardock special happened with the Broli movie? No, right? Only one could happen. Which doesn't count? The Z special. Could Battle of Gods happened with that first Super arc? No. So which doesn't count? Most likely, the one that came first, which was overtly rewritten doesn't count. Could GT happen with Super? No. What doesn't count? GT. To me, it's that simple. Or am I missing something? Could someone address this, please? I really would love to learn all about why I might be wrong about this viewpoint. And saying, "Oh, it takes place in a different timeline or different universe or whatever" would be a pure fan theory. You could say that about anything. The moon landing happened and didn't happen; Elvis is dead and alive; Batgirl is Commissioner Gordon's daughter and Alfred's niece! It can all happen because of parallel universes. But I'm talking about the DB story as it is currently presented. It can't all happen--especially when the guy who started this whole thing is writing the story.

Seriously, what is canon? Does it only separate official from unofficial? Otherwise, can't you just call it "official/unofficial?" I feel like claiming that everything is canon or nothing is canon kind of undermines the entire point.
It's not about "proving you wrong." It's just that your "perfect canon" as you deem it, especially since it is, according to you yourself, always subject to change, is still your own conjecture, until the creators say otherwise. It's fine for you to form it as you see fit, but is there a reason you are so obsessed with the notion that there is a perfect, definitive Dragon Ball canon out there, bar none? As for your last point, that's not what anyone has been saying. At all. And even if it was, you're quick to call both versions of Super canon (which, according to my applied definition of canon, I agree with). But based on your definition, one of them clearly can't be canon, right? There are a plethora of differences there, but they can't both be canon because they can't both be happening, right? You're kind of contradicting yourself here.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Is Yo! Son Goku and his friend return! Canon?

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:43 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:03 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:18 pm
Everything happens where it happens. If something doesn't happen in one place...it doesn't happen in one place.
Where do the filler, movies, GT, amd several Funimation dubs "happen?" Does the present official series display any indication of acknowledging that all of those things happened?

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:36 pm
But the story is based on something, right? The story needs to have certain things that happened which are considered and some that aren't, right? In its current run--which by all evidence--is meant to be the current, present story that legitimately continues the Dragon Ball franchise, Toriyama is at the helm. He determines what canon is, not by coming out and saying it, but by the things that are written. As of now, the franchise evidently (not explicitly) cannot possibly lead to GT. The movies also could not have possibly existed. To me, that's canon. Correct me if I'm wrong, but canon is about what the definitive story is, not by you or me or the official media released, but by what defines the story.

And yes, I'm piecing it together because nobody has ever nor will anyone ever come out and say what counts and what doesn't. But at the same time, it's pretty obvious that certain things don't count in this official continuation of the story. So because nobody came out and said that some things don't count, does that mean that everything has the same amount of weight? Could the three Z Broli movies happened with the new Broli movie? No. So, somethibg isn't canon. Strong lean toward the Z movies not having happened. Could the Bardock special happened with the Broli movie? No, right? Only one could happen. Which doesn't count? The Z special. Could Battle of Gods happened with that first Super arc? No. So which doesn't count? Most likely, the one that came first, which was overtly rewritten doesn't count. Could GT happen with Super? No. What doesn't count? GT. To me, it's that simple. Or am I missing something? Could someone address this, please? I really would love to learn all about why I might be wrong about this viewpoint. And saying, "Oh, it takes place in a different timeline or different universe or whatever" would be a pure fan theory. You could say that about anything. The moon landing happened and didn't happen; Elvis is dead and alive; Batgirl is Commissioner Gordon's daughter and Alfred's niece! It can all happen because of parallel universes. But I'm talking about the DB story as it is currently presented. It can't all happen--especially when the guy who started this whole thing is writing the story.

Seriously, what is canon? Does it only separate official from unofficial? Otherwise, can't you just call it "official/unofficial?" I feel like claiming that everything is canon or nothing is canon kind of undermines the entire point.
[/quote]

Dragon Ball GT happens in Dragon Ball GT. The FUNimation dub happens in the FUNimation dub.

You're making things more complicated than they need to be.
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Re: Is Yo! Son Goku and his friend return! Canon?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:56 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:10 pm
TheGreatness25 wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:03 pm But the story is based on something, right? The story needs to have certain things that happened which are considered and some that aren't, right? In its current run--which by all evidence--is meant to be the current, present story that legitimately continues the Dragon Ball franchise, Toriyama is at the helm. He determines what canon is, not by coming out and saying it, but by the things that are written. As of now, the franchise evidently (not explicitly) cannot possibly lead to GT. The movies also could not have possibly existed. To me, that's canon. Correct me if I'm wrong, but canon is about what the definitive story is, not by you or me or the official media released, but by what defines the story.

And yes, I'm piecing it together because nobody has ever nor will anyone ever come out and say what counts and what doesn't. But at the same time, it's pretty obvious that certain things don't count in this official continuation of the story. So because nobody came out and said that some things don't count, does that mean that everything has the same amount of weight? Could the three Z Broli movies happened with the new Broli movie? No. So, somethibg isn't canon. Strong lean toward the Z movies not having happened. Could the Bardock special happened with the Broli movie? No, right? Only one could happen. Which doesn't count? The Z special. Could Battle of Gods happened with that first Super arc? No. So which doesn't count? Most likely, the one that came first, which was overtly rewritten doesn't count. Could GT happen with Super? No. What doesn't count? GT. To me, it's that simple. Or am I missing something? Could someone address this, please? I really would love to learn all about why I might be wrong about this viewpoint. And saying, "Oh, it takes place in a different timeline or different universe or whatever" would be a pure fan theory. You could say that about anything. The moon landing happened and didn't happen; Elvis is dead and alive; Batgirl is Commissioner Gordon's daughter and Alfred's niece! It can all happen because of parallel universes. But I'm talking about the DB story as it is currently presented. It can't all happen--especially when the guy who started this whole thing is writing the story.

Seriously, what is canon? Does it only separate official from unofficial? Otherwise, can't you just call it "official/unofficial?" I feel like claiming that everything is canon or nothing is canon kind of undermines the entire point.
It's not about "proving you wrong." It's just that your "perfect canon" as you deem it, especially since it is, according to you yourself, always subject to change, is still your own conjecture, until the creators say otherwise. It's fine for you to form it as you see fit, but is there a reason you are so obsessed with the notion that there is a perfect, definitive Dragon Ball canon out there, bar none? As for your last point, that's not what anyone has been saying. At all. And even if it was, you're quick to call both versions of Super canon (which, according to my applied definition of canon, I agree with). But based on your definition, one of them clearly can't be canon, right? There are a plethora of differences there, but they can't both be canon because they can't both be happening, right? You're kind of contradicting yourself here.
No, not really. Akira Toriyama is spearheading the story. The anime and manga are both taking shape based on the creator's vision. That's why they're both canon--they are both following the story that Toriyama is laying out. There might come a day where per Toriyama's vision, the manga or anime might have to contradict itself in favor of the other. At that point, the story that is abandoned will no longer be canon. That's how I look at it.

It's not really an obsession. It's just to me, the story cannot rest on everything that's ever happened in the series. We have to be expected to ignore some things and look at them as a "side story," a.k.a. inconsequential to the story going forward. I'm also intrigued by this shift where not that long ago, all fans talked about was canon. Now, it's like, "Oh, well there is no canon." How could there not be? So, the story just kind of happens with no structure? I think that I am so focused on this topic because of what it means about discussions and how the story shapes up going forward.

If we are discussing Broli and I say, "His driving motivation is to kill Goku because Goku's crying drove him crazy as a baby. I'm glad he's dead." You can turn around and say, "No, Broli is a misunderstood character and he doesn't have anuthing personal against Goku. In fact, they're sparring partners. He is very much alive." Do we have to go through this entire process of qualifying our pisitions? Per the story, you would be right and I would be wrong. The Broli character in the main story written by the author, continuing on and building would have your version of Broli. So, clearly, both cannot be "real"--meaning that the story cannot be shaped by both of those facts. I would clearly be wrong.

By the same token, if Super Hero comes out and suddenly, it's as if Super never happened (Goku's maximum is Super Saiyan 3, Vegeta's max is Super Saiyan 2, no Beerus, no Whis, etc.), you'd seriously question what the heck is going on. That's why canon is important. Without canon, there is no structure. Each piece of material could come out with random events happening. I think because I can't imagine that scenario, that's why I'm so stuck on what the canon actually is. I feel like without canon, the series would be perfectly justified in releasing incredibly random things with very little more than the name and characters holding the story together.

Anyway, I don't know how I'm coming off, but I'm not being aggressive. And I don't want to imply that this is about right or wrong. I'm really trying to participate in this discussion and am really interested in why people feel the way they do and what they feel it means to the series. I feel that without canon, the series loses its consistency and it would be so easy to dismiss poor writing as "well, there's no canon! This can happen!" I do want to hold the series up to a higher standard than that. I'm not saying that DB is this epic, grand masterpiece of literary genius, but it can't be so dumbed down that anything can happen at any moment regardless of what came before. It's already kind of like that with retcons and rewrites, but not much of Toriyama's actual vision was changed. But now, it seems like we're giving the story full license to abandon all notion of consistency.

Maybe I'm thinking too deeply and maybe I'm just curious how fans jumped on this "no canon" thing and what it means to them.

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Re: Is Yo! Son Goku and his friend return! Canon?

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:13 pm

Everything is canon where it's said it is canon. There's no right answer to anything, everything is valid to itself and whatever wants to build off of something else.
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Re: Is Yo! Son Goku and his friend return! Canon?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:15 pm

I haven't said anywhere that you're being aggressive or that you can't hold the series to a higher standard @TheGreatness25, I just don't see Dragon Ball as a series with a canon that functions the way you're saying it does. You keep using "We" as though all of our opinions are based on a collective, but personally I've never gotten invested in the whole "GT is not canon" conversation even when it was a thing long before Super; it's not something I've given much weight to, as all of those arguments have always been, again, fan conjecture when it comes to Dragon Ball. Anyway, I've explained at length what I feel already and have exhausted enough energy on this topic, so :wave:
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Is Yo! Son Goku and his friend return! Canon?

Post by MyVisionity » Thu Nov 04, 2021 7:30 pm

They're all canon. But they're not all in continuity with one another. I'm guessing that's an important distinction, canon versus continuity.

Unless an official source states what is canon and what is not, this is the case.

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Re: Is Yo! Son Goku and his friend return! Canon?

Post by Aim » Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:19 pm

I personally like to stick to a canon, I hate the mess that western comics is and like a clear cut “this is what actually happens”, which is why I have issue with the whole Super franchise.

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Re: Is Yo! Son Goku and his friend return! Canon?

Post by Aim » Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:29 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:13 pm Everything is canon where it's said it is canon. There's no right answer to anything, everything is valid to itself and whatever wants to build off of something else.
Why are you like this.

All I want to know is if YSFR fits into the main story line, don’t take me on a trip down the “everything is canon in its own right”, because we all know there’s a definite storyline that we consider to be the main one, and it’s nice to have these so we can put things together and follow them. With DBZ it’s been stated the movies fit into their own dimensions so that explains it, but that was with DBZ until BOG and ROF.

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Re: Is Yo! Son Goku and his friend return! Canon?

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:30 pm

Aim wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:19 pm I personally like to stick to a canon, I hate the mess that western comics is and like a clear cut “this is what actually happens”, which is why I have issue with the whole Super franchise.
The issue with DC and Marvel is that lack of linear publishing to make picking up a volume #1 and reading through to a conclusion so damned hard. Having multiple continuities isn't an issue if you just label the damned things or stop reverting back to old numberings.

I'm reading the current Wally West run of The Flash that began with the reverting back to the old higher numberings from before the New 52 and it's just so stupid and makes organizing and figuring out where to start so hard. This despite the fact that the run having three solid story arcs already finished!
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Re: Is Yo! Son Goku and his friend return! Canon?

Post by Kaboom » Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:55 pm

Here's the straightforward common-sense answer: Whatever you consider to be the "main (post-original-manga) storyline," the 2008 special can fit into it.

It's a relatively insignificant and isolated little story with effectively zero crucial connection to anything set before or after it. There's nothing in Z's epilogue, GT, Neko Majin, DB Online, BoG/RF, or either version of Super to indicate that the Tarble special's events didn't or couldn't have happened in their respective pasts.
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Re: Is Yo! Son Goku and his friend return! Canon?

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:59 pm

Aim wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:29 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:13 pm Everything is canon where it's said it is canon. There's no right answer to anything, everything is valid to itself and whatever wants to build off of something else.
Why are you like this.

All I want to know is if YSFR fits into the main story line, don’t take me on a trip down the “everything is canon in its own right”, because we all know there’s a definite storyline that we consider to be the main one, and it’s nice to have these so we can put things together and follow them. With DBZ it’s been stated the movies fit into their own dimensions so that explains it, but that was with DBZ until BOG and ROF.
Because I want you to change how you interact with media. Don't like something? Ignore it. Like something? Enjoy it! What does it matter if it falls under a 'canon' when the reality of the situation is that the IP holders often just ignore things they made up previously to create a type of work they want to create in the now?
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Re: Is Yo! Son Goku and his friend return! Canon?

Post by linkdude20002001 » Fri Nov 05, 2021 12:07 am

Aim wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:29 pm All I want to know is if YSFR fits into the main story line, don’t take me on a trip down the “everything is canon in its own right”, because we all know there’s a definite storyline that we consider to be the main one, and it’s nice to have these so we can put things together and follow them. With DBZ it’s been stated the movies fit into their own dimensions so that explains it, but that was with DBZ until BOG and ROF.
Well, basically, Julie's right. It's like...you've got the canon in Toriyama's head (whatever that may be) AND the canon in various Toei employees' heads (whatever that may be). The movies are all canonical in the Toei canon. Even tho they can't happen, the TV episodes contain elements from some of those movies, so...they HAVE to happen, even tho they can't. It's a cartoon for children, so they don't care. Besides, they're already making up story facts only to replace them later on once Toriyama contradicts them in the comic. I think he even contradicts himself sometimes. And that makes it hard to know what's canonical. Whatever's most recent, I guess. I mean, if Toriyama ever DID state the official canon, he would probably make new stuff that contradicts that eventually.

"We all know there’s a definite storyline that we consider to be the main one", you say, but WE aren't the ones who get to decide what's canonical. Tho, of course, we're all allowed our own personal 'headcanons'.

Toriyama Canon(?):
Dr Slump
Jaco the Galactic Patrolman
Dragon Ball Minus
Dragon Ball
Dragon Ball Online
Dragon Ball: Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!!
Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods (except for where retconned in Dragon Ball Super)
Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection 'F'
Dragon Ball Super

Toei Canon 1(?):
Dr Slump & Arale - episodes and movies
Dragon Ball (animation) - episodes and movies
Dragon Ball Z - episodes, TV-specials, and movies
Dragon Ball GT - episodes and TV-special

Toei Canon 2(?):
Dr Slump & Arale - episodes and movies
Dragon Ball (animation) - episodes and movies
Dragon Ball Z - episodes, TV-specials, and movies
Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods (except for where retconned in Dragon Ball Super [animation])
Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection 'F'
Dragon Ball Super (animation)

I would assume that it's quite possible that some non Toei things could be considered canonical by Toei, since elements from them appear in their own animations. Like how Tarble is mentioned in Battle of the Gods.
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