Favorite Goku Voice?

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:18 am

NitroEX wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:18 amIt's just a shame we never got to hear his take on Namek Super Saiyan Goku because we never heard his Goku in a full rage.
Kelamis did dub the flashbacks to Namek, which included Goku freaking out before the planet exploded, but I agree there was so much more he could have done with that material. I recall there was a petition for Ocean to dub season 3 back in the day, but that never came to be, and Kelamis likely wouldn't have returned. Cartoon Network UK were also quick to stop showing the series altogether in 2005 after everything had aired on Toonami so Westwood Media probably thought it wouldn't be worth the effort even if enough fans expressed interest.
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:58 pm

I really wish Ocean Kai was released. But anyway, Kelamis nor Morrow were voicing Goku in that to begin with. But then again, we might be throwing Richard Ian Cox's name in the ring of we every heard his rendition. I personality can't envision his Goku, but hey, he is talented. I'm sure there's a reason they cast him.

Man, Steve Blum never gets any love for his portrayal of Goku, does he? Lol

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by Aim » Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:37 pm

dva_raza wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:06 am Lol I'm not very good at media analysis because I don't feel a woman voicing a man is suiting?..what?
What "analysis" did I miss?
Apologies for late reply.

You’re entire premise was that it’s not fitting because it’s a woman voicing Son, not because you feel it’s not fitting, despite her being able to do multiple voices for each of the family members and still sound different so they can be told apart. I don’t know where people get this idea that Nozawa makes Goku sound “womanly”, because she doesn’t, she makes Goku sound like Goku.

dva_raza wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:06 am"a WOMAN voices my maculine manly man character?! Unacceptable"

First of all, Goku is anything but "manly", neither are Sean's and Mario's voices. Which is why they suit him perfectly.
That was my entire point. Sean’s voice in slice of life is fine but he goes off character to the point he essentially sounds like he’s copying Vegeta when Goku fights. I don’t know if this is directly from Schemmel, but whatever it is, it isn’t a fit for Goku and you can see that by easily comparing the Vegeta and Goku, in the English version their personalities become too similar in the sense Goku becomes hyper masculine and extremely arrogant in his speech.

Even Ajay touched on this in one of his videos criticizing the dub, certain nuances of characters are changed, though I’m not sure whether he was specifically talking about Goku.

If you can’t pick that out you’re either watching the old Z dub or you’re not paying attention.


dva_raza wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:06 am Secondly, I never said it was " unnaceptable", but that it's a no "for me", if comparing to a voice that actually suits Goku considering basic elements about the character as..again..him being a grown man.
You don’t need to sound like a “typical” grown man to be a grown man, that’s what Goku is essentially, he’s strange, he’s a kid, he’s goofy. There’s literally a man who can sound like Nozawa and it doesn’t sound weird at all, because Nozawa when voicing Goku doesn’t sound like a woman. Again, it seems like you’re saying “men should sound like this it’s easier for me to digest”, which is fine, but saying a woman shouldn’t be voicing a male character? That’s extremely over the top to me and quite sexist considering Nozawa does a better job at portraying the character than Funimation.


dva_raza wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:06 am Women voice kids constantly, almost every boy in the series is voiced by a woman in Mexico at least and that's great because it's suits. When the guy is grown, it doesn't.
Kinda sad that women are so restricted don’t you think? Look at the English VA for Naruto, women can do it, maybe not all, but that doesn’t mean that it should always go to men because they sound like typical men.

This just makes for these fictional characters to sound the same over and over again and there’s barely any magic to it like in most Japanese versions.
dva_raza wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:06 am Oh you've been waiting? So go ahead, exactly what is stupid about my argument? I didn't see any argument from you, you just calling my opinion stupid doesn't really count as such.
I know, I was waiting for a response, usually people aren’t so quick to call out that there wasn’t an argument presented by the person criticizing them, so hats off to you.

It’s stupid because you’re limiting the potential of great character voices to people because of their gender. It’s a typical thing people seem to do in the west, they can’t fathom Son Goku not sounding like a regular typical man and going full on macho arrogant when he comes into confrontation. I made a thread about this, lots of people disagree, but maybe you’ll pull out some better arguments.
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by Aim » Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:42 pm

jjgp1112 wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:25 am
Aim wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:45 am
dva_raza wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:06 am Sean 100%, he captures the personality perfectly and he is very similar to latin american Goku, Mario Castañeda who I grew up with and is in my opinion the perfect voice for Goku.
An old lady voicing a grown man will always be a no for me
Ah, I was waiting for someone to do this.

People like you aren’t very good at media analysis, it shows because the only criticisms you have is “this sounds foreign to me thus it’s wrong” and “a WOMAN voices my maculine manly man character?! Unacceptable!”.

Anyways you’re titled to your opinion, I’ve been waiting to point out these kind of arguments from the fandom are stupid.
You projected a whole bunch of nonsense onto him for no reason.
Ah yes, what did I project exactly?
An old lady voicing a grown man will always be a no for me

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by Aim » Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:47 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:34 am
Aim wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:45 am
dva_raza wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:06 am Sean 100%, he captures the personality perfectly and he is very similar to latin american Goku, Mario Castañeda who I grew up with and is in my opinion the perfect voice for Goku.
An old lady voicing a grown man will always be a no for me
Ah, I was waiting for someone to do this.

People like you aren’t very good at media analysis, it shows because the only criticisms you have is “this sounds foreign to me thus it’s wrong” and “a WOMAN voices my maculine manly man character?! Unacceptable!”.

Anyways you’re titled to your opinion, I’ve been waiting to point out these kind of arguments from the fandom are stupid.
How much conceit is within you, to make such an abrasive and inconsiderate comment like this? Have you literally been waiting a long time to start an argument on this subject with that attitude?
Just live and let live, man. There is no need to make accusations of idiocy against someone while discussing this subject.
How conceited do you have to be to shut down any form of criticism because “live and let live, dude”.

Yes, I will throw accusations of idiocy when people’s only criticisms of Nozawa is always “old lady no voice man >:(“.

Well, figuratively speaking, I just check back here to see what topics are happening, I knew someone was going to say some stupid stuff like “Nozawa is an old lady, big no no for me, women voice kids only”, so I usually enjoy jumping on that, because since the topic I started a while ago now, I’m still yet to hear a convincing argument to why Nozawa doesn’t fit other than “she’s a woman”.

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by jjgp1112 » Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:44 am

Aim wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:42 pm
jjgp1112 wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:25 am
Aim wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:45 am
Ah, I was waiting for someone to do this.

People like you aren’t very good at media analysis, it shows because the only criticisms you have is “this sounds foreign to me thus it’s wrong” and “a WOMAN voices my maculine manly man character?! Unacceptable!”.

Anyways you’re titled to your opinion, I’ve been waiting to point out these kind of arguments from the fandom are stupid.
You projected a whole bunch of nonsense onto him for no reason.
Ah yes, what did I project exactly?
An old lady voicing a grown man will always be a no for me
You're the one who added a bunch of bullshit about him wanting an aggressive manly man voice. You want it to be one way so you can have a more easily disputable argument to moralize at him for,

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Expecting some baseline level of "adult" from an adult male voice doesn't mean you want everyone to sound like Hulk Hogan on Columbia's finest and an injection of Dianbol either. And whether it's plausible doesn't mean you actually want to hear it.

Like people keep repeatedly mentioning, Sean Schemmel isn't even the manliest voice and I don't think he sounds "over-the-top" during action scenes aside from Super Saiyan 3/4 and the intitial Frieza-saga SSJ in Kai - and yes, considering the dub is my primary viewing experience I'm very much "paying attention" and don't pick up anything even remotely resembling Sabat's Vegeta's performance.
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by MyVisionity » Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:39 am

jjgp1112 wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:44 am Expecting some baseline level of "adult" from an adult male voice...
It's a cartoon tho, a fantasy cartoon at that. Maybe it's that sort of expectation that's the real problem. Not all the artists out there trying to express themselves and be creative. Of course not everybody's gonna like it, but maybe people just need to unbuckle their imaginations a little bit more. "Jarring" doesn't have to be a bad thing. It can be a starting point.

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by dva_raza » Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:15 am

Aim wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:37 pm
dva_raza wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:06 am Lol I'm not very good at media analysis because I don't feel a woman voicing a man is suiting?..what?
What "analysis" did I miss?
Apologies for late reply.

You’re entire premise was that it’s not fitting because it’s a woman voicing Son, not because you feel it’s not fitting despite her being able to do multiple voices for each of the family members and still sound different so they can be told apart. I don’t know where people get this idea that Nozawa makes Goku sound “womanly”, because she doesn’t, she makes Goku sound like Goku.

dva_raza wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:06 am"a WOMAN voices my maculine manly man character?! Unacceptable"

First of all, Goku is anything but "manly", neither are Sean's and Mario's voices. Which is why they suit him perfectly.
That was my entire point. Sean’s voice in slice of life is fine but he goes off character to the point he essentially sounds like he’s copying Vegeta when Goku fights. I don’t know if this is directly from Schemmel, but whatever it is, it isn’t a fit for Goku and you can see that by easily comparing the Vegeta and Goku, in the English version their personalities become too similar in the sense Goku becomes hyper masculine and extremely arrogant in his speech.

Even Ajay touched on this in one of his videos criticizing the dub, certain nuances of characters are changed, though I’m not sure whether he was specifically talking about Goku.

If you can’t pick that out you’re either watching the old Z dub or you’re not paying attention.


dva_raza wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:06 am Secondly, I never said it was " unnaceptable", but that it's a no "for me", if comparing to a voice that actually suits Goku considering basic elements about the character as..again..him being a grown man.
You don’t need to sound like a “typical” grown man to be a grown man, that’s what Goku is essentially, he’s strange, he’s a kid, he’s goofy. There’s literally a man who can sound like Nozawa and it doesn’t sound weird at all, because Nozawa when voicing Goku doesn’t sound like a woman. Again, it seems like you’re saying “men should sound like this it’s easier for me to digest”, which is fine, but saying a woman shouldn’t be voicing a male character? That’s extremely over the top to me and quite sexist considering Nozawa does a better job at portraying the character than Funimation.


dva_raza wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:06 am Women voice kids constantly, almost every boy in the series is voiced by a woman in Mexico at least and that's great because it's suits. When the guy is grown, it doesn't.
Kinda sad that women are so restricted don’t you think? Look at the English VA for Naruto, women can do it, maybe not all, but that doesn’t mean that it should always go to men because they sound like typical men.

This just makes for these fictional characters to sound the same over and over again and there’s barely any magic to it like in most Japanese versions.
dva_raza wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:06 am Oh you've been waiting? So go ahead, exactly what is stupid about my argument? I didn't see any argument from you, you just calling my opinion stupid doesn't really count as such.
I know, I was waiting for a response, usually people aren’t so quick to call out that there wasn’t an argument presented by the person criticizing them, so hats off to you.

It’s stupid because you’re limiting the potential of great character voices to people because of their gender. It’s a typical thing people seem to do in the west, they can’t fathom Son Goku not sounding like a regular typical man and going full on macho arrogant when he comes into confrontation. I made a thread about this, lots of people disagree, but maybe you’ll pull out some better arguments.


Honestly I'm kinda exhausted with this discussion and with me seemingly offending people for saying I'd rather a have a male character be voiced by a voice who sounds male, which Nozawa doesn't manage to do.

You’re entire premise was that it’s not fitting because it’s a woman voicing Son, not because you feel it’s not fitting
Well no, actually it is more specifically because it’s not fitting. So maybe I should’ve said "a person who sounds like an old lady will always be a no for me" for Goku.
I’ll put it like this, if Nozawa sounded like Sean Schemmel, I couldn’t care less if she is a woman. Or if Goku’s japanese voice actor was a man who sounded exactly like Nozawa I would critizise it just the same because he sounds like a woman and that’s offputing for me as it doesn’t match the character. What I care about is how the voice sounds not who the person is.

I don’t know where people get this idea that Nozawa makes Goku sound “womanly”
Probably from the fact that she makes Goku sound womanly.

You don’t need to sound like a “typical” grown man to be a grown man,
No you don’t which is why I didn’t say “typical”. I said like a man, which is a wide concept already. A male and female voice have both a huge variety of types and ranges.

because Nozawa when voicing Goku doesn’t sound like a woman.
I mean that’s the thing, she does to me and probably to other people as well, don't know why you can't accept this instead of trying to find some malicious preconception that isn't there from anybody who don't experience the same thing you do

but saying a woman shouldn’t be voicing a male character? That’s extremely over the top to me and quite sexist
..don’t even know what to say to this. Not sure if you are just trolling by this point. WTF is sexist about saying I prefer a more naturally suiting voice for a character that a non suiting one? It would be the same as saying I prefer (which I do) a female character to be voiced by a female actress, not by a male actor who KINDA sounds female, no matter how much of a great performer he is.

Nozawa does a better job at portraying the character than Funimation.
This is only your personal opinion, nothing more. Everybody does a good job. You liking someone better doesn't mean they did it better than other actors.

Kinda sad that women are so restricted don’t you think?
...no? I don't think. Wtf are you talking about? Women play women, men play men. How are women restricted?

It’s stupid because you’re limiting the potential of great character voices to people because of their gender
If your only argument is a baseless acusation of sexism then I can say with certainty you are the one falling on the “stupid” side or reasoning here. You keep calling me or my opinion stupid, stupid meaning lack of common sense, when common sense (sound judgment in practical matters) is the very thing I'm basing my opinion on, a practical judgement, along with my criteria as someone who's worked in VA for 10 plus years having grown into the bussiness with my mom being a VA too and knowing there are basic aspects that are taken into account in casting that lean on a basic physical (vocal) match before anything else believe it or not. If Nozawa sounds like a man to you that's you're opinion and I have mine and there's nothing stupid about it. The only thing that's stupid is acusing someone of being discriminative against a gender because they don't like such person for a particular role. That is plain dumb

I made a thread about this, lots of people disagree, but maybe you’ll pull out some better arguments.
Nah I got no better argument. Nozawa is an old lady who sounds like one. That is why she doesn’t fit the character of Goku IN MY HUMBLE OPINION . That's it. Your attacks are off base

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by PurestEvil » Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:33 am

Aim wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:47 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:34 am
Aim wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:45 am
Ah, I was waiting for someone to do this.

People like you aren’t very good at media analysis, it shows because the only criticisms you have is “this sounds foreign to me thus it’s wrong” and “a WOMAN voices my maculine manly man character?! Unacceptable!”.

Anyways you’re titled to your opinion, I’ve been waiting to point out these kind of arguments from the fandom are stupid.
How much conceit is within you, to make such an abrasive and inconsiderate comment like this? Have you literally been waiting a long time to start an argument on this subject with that attitude?
Just live and let live, man. There is no need to make accusations of idiocy against someone while discussing this subject.
How conceited do you have to be to shut down any form of criticism because “live and let live, dude”.

Yes, I will throw accusations of idiocy when people’s only criticisms of Nozawa is always “old lady no voice man >:(“.
I said “live and let live” because your comment I replied too had an unnecessarily snarky tone that conveyed a feeling of chagrin and intolerance, which is a sign of arrogance.
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:52 am

TheGreatness25 wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:58 pm I really wish Ocean Kai was released. But anyway, Kelamis nor Morrow were voicing Goku in that to begin with. But then again, we might be throwing Richard Ian Cox's name in the ring of we every heard his rendition. I personality can't envision his Goku, but hey, he is talented. I'm sure there's a reason they cast him.
What we know about the decision to cast Richard Ian Cox is that Kirby Morrow auditioned, he was told by the producers to kidify his voice, they decided what Morrow offered wasn't what they were looking for, thinking he was "too cool" for the role they continued to look for a suitable recast, eventually settling on Ian Cox.

By the looks of things Ocean were also looking for actors that could show commitment for their Kai dub. Robo4900 noticed a pattern that it was the longest running cast members from both Vancouver and Calgary that were re-auditioned, hence neither Kelamis nor Corlett were asked to audition as both played Goku for significantly less episodes than Morrow.

It seems that Richard Ian Cox's casting was meant to be a top secret, so much so that even actors who have spoke about this dub have shied away from the subject. Brian Drummond was asked about his casting, claimed to have not known Cox was cast as Goku, or heard the voice. Conversely Scott McNeil with his usual disregard for NDAs broke the news to certain fans, also giving his opinion that Cox was the perfect man for the job.

I think it's hard to picture Cox as Goku because everyone thinks of the more punky voice he uses for Inuyasha, but I agree he's a good actor so there's no reason he can't soften his voice to better suit Goku's carefree nature. From what we've heard I'm really curious to hear how the voice sounds, so hopefully one day we will see it, and the rest of this dub of course.
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by Aim » Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:11 am

PurestEvil wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:33 am
Aim wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:47 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:34 am

How much conceit is within you, to make such an abrasive and inconsiderate comment like this? Have you literally been waiting a long time to start an argument on this subject with that attitude?
Just live and let live, man. There is no need to make accusations of idiocy against someone while discussing this subject.
How conceited do you have to be to shut down any form of criticism because “live and let live, dude”.

Yes, I will throw accusations of idiocy when people’s only criticisms of Nozawa is always “old lady no voice man >:(“.
I said “live and let live” because your comment I replied too had an unnecessarily snarky tone that conveyed a feeling of chagrin and intolerance, which is a sign of arrogance.
I actually LIKE Masako, FYI.
Okay, fair enough, I can see that, my tone definitely did come off as snarky and passive aggressive, as I was trying to invoke a response albeit in a really obnoxious way. I personally feel it’s warranted when the criticisms are consistently on the fact Nozawa is a woman, one thing I can’t stand about the majority of the DB community is how sexist they can be. At one point I even got DM’s on forums asking “who’s the biggest hoe” out of Vados and Kafla, so forgive me for coming down hard on people whose only criticisms consist of the person for their gender.

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by Aim » Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:50 am

jjgp1112 wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:44 am
Aim wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:42 pm
jjgp1112 wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:25 am

You projected a whole bunch of nonsense onto him for no reason.
Ah yes, what did I project exactly?
An old lady voicing a grown man will always be a no for me
You're the one who added a bunch of bullshit about him wanting an aggressive manly man voice.
People keep saying that? Who exactly? Consistently in the fandom the criticism is that Nozawa isn’t masculine enough for Goku, or that it should sound like a man, essentially saying the voice isn’t “man enough”.
jjgp1112 wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:44 am You want it to be one way so you can have a more easily disputable argument to moralize at him for,

Image
How exactly do I want it to be one way when I’m all open for hearing arguments? I may throw out an assumption initially but I never just leave it at that.

I literally admitted to throwing out the assumption to provoke a response, to try hear something that isn’t the same old easy disputable argument you claim I want him to have. You’re literally doing to me what you’re accusing me of doing to him.

Image
jjgp1112 wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:44 am Expecting some baseline level of "adult" from an adult male voice doesn't mean you want everyone to sound like Hulk Hogan on Columbia's finest and an injection of Dianbol either.
What exactly is the baseline of “adult” when it comes to a fictional character? What makes these characters more interesting and connected to their environment is their expression and voices don’t and aren’t the typical thing you see in real life.

Like, if a black guy can do a good voice for Goku, why shouldn’t he? Or should he be excluded because of race instead of gender? After all you speak of a baseline, which I honestly can think of a thousand different voices people may consider baseline, to me it just seems like you mean someone that just obvious sounds like the typical man.

When we are talking about baselines there’s like a thousand different variables that come in, tone, dialect, pitch, all that stuff, which Nozawa does perfectly for what Son Goku’s character is. Again, like I said, this just sounds like “it’s not man enough”, perhaps you could explain further.
jjgp1112 wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:44 am And whether it's plausible doesn't mean you actually want to hear it.
Yeah, listening to a woman who’s getting on in age voice a man seems to really rub the westerners the wrong way.
jjgp1112 wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:44 am Like people keep repeatedly mentioning, Sean Schemmel isn't even the manliest voice
That’s my argument, I haven’t seen that point repeated much if at all from the people who dislike Nozawa. The whole premise usually is that it’s not man enough, I swear we’ve been over this before in a long thread though I might be misremembering you with someone else.
jjgp1112 wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:44 am and I don't think he sounds "over-the-top" during action scenes aside from Super Saiyan 3/4 and the intitial Frieza-saga SSJ in Kai
Ironically he got the characters tones better in the old Z dub.

Funimation have made Goku far more arrogant in speech and tone than in the original version, they give him those iconic Vegeta “hmmph” phonation’s far more than he does in the original, as I said, this slowly but surely changes the nuances of the characters and their personalities.
jjgp1112 wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:44 am - and yes, considering the dub is my primary viewing experience I'm very much "paying attention" and don't pick up anything even remotely resembling Sabat's Vegeta's performance.
This is about analyzing the characters between the original and English dub, in my thread where I provided videos and lines as what I saw as unnecessary changes, it’s clear that the script writers are giving Goku too much arrogance in moments of conflict, my primary viewing is now Japanese, so if anything Schemmel’s Goku is too much like the originals Vegeta in some ways during conflict. I don’t know about Vegeta in the dub, if you can’t see it then the changes are the scripts have been changed probably unnecessarily once again.

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by Aim » Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:43 am

dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:15 am Honestly I'm kinda exhausted with this discussion and with me seemingly offending people for saying I'd rather a have a male character be voiced by a voice who sounds male, which Nozawa doesn't manage to do.
Me too, people get really offended these days when they’re criticized and honestly it’s really tiring when they complain about that.

Besides that you never mentioned criticism about how she sounded more so that it was an old lady…? It was specifically about her being an old lady.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:15 am Well no, actually it is more specifically because it’s not fitting.
Nice! Now we are getting somewhere.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:15 am So maybe I should’ve said "a person who sounds like an old lady will always be a no for me" for Goku.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:15 am I’ll put it like this, if Nozawa sounded like Sean Schemmel, I couldn’t care less if she is a woman. Or if Goku’s japanese voice actor was a man who sounded exactly like Nozawa
Fair.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:15 am I would critizise it just the same because he sounds like a woman and that’s offputing for me as it doesn’t match the character. What I care about is how the voice sounds not who the person is.
Sure. I have a question, have you seen the man that plays Masako Nozawa in Tajima Identity? If so, does seeing that voice come out of a real life man still sound off putting?
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:15 am Probably from the fact that she makes Goku sound womanly.
I would actually beg to differ, there doesn’t seem to be the same criticisms coming from the One Piece or Naruto fandoms on the VA’s dub voices even though Naruto is very close to the Japanese, I think this has something more to do with the culture and people that Dragon Ball has attracted and been marketed to in the west. I don’t think the Japanese people at all think Goku sounds like this old lady like what the English fandom seem to think. Which is why I think it has something more to do with Goku’s muscular design and people expecting him to be more stereotypically sounding like a Superman esque voice.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:15 am No you don’t which is why I didn’t say “typical”. I said like a man, which is a wide concept already. A male and female voice have both a huge variety of types and ranges.
Which is why I think this has less to do with the idea people clock the VA as an old lady and more to do with the culture surrounding the people that watch the series. Though I could be completely wrong I still think it’s interesting how this is something only shared between the western fandom in Deagon Ball as opposed to others.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:15 am I mean that’s the thing, she does to me and probably to other people as well, don't know why you can't accept this instead of trying to find some malicious preconception that isn't there from anybody who don't experience the same thing you do
I mean, I wasn’t trying to find anything malicious, I went by what you said and hit hard, probably wasn’t too good of me to jump in like that, though I really like these discussions and it interests me especially on this topic since this isn’t something shared with other fandoms to my knowledge, although others may be able to chime in.

dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:15 am ..don’t even know what to say to this. Not sure if you are just trolling by this point. WTF is sexist about saying I prefer a more naturally suiting voice for a character that a non suiting one?
What do you mean exactly? You mean just a stereotypical voice instead of the variation we get in Japan? I literally grew up with the Funimation dub and it wasn’t even after learning of the other versions, watching them and reading the manga did it become apparent to me that the English dub wasn’t portraying a faithful dub of Dragon Ball, especially recently in regards to Son Goku’s voice. And yes, it is sexist to suggest women shouldn’t voice men because they are women, if that makes your head spin then I have no idea what to say to you, people these days can’t seem to comprehend anything other than “x should fit into y” because “z is x” and so on. It’s this kind of essentialism that makes media bland.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:15 am This is only your personal opinion, nothing more. Everybody does a good job. You liking someone better doesn't mean they did it better than other actors.
No, it’s more so I understand enough to see how the performance correlates with the authors intentions of the characters and story. You can take a thousand different voices and they can suit a character of a show, but doesn’t mean they would be best for that character, like how Pauline Newstone did fit Freeza and so did Lindsey, however, they fit in the kind of show that was portrayed which was some mixture between a parody and knock off dub.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:15 am ...no? I don't think. Wtf are you talking about? Women play women, men play men. How are women restricted?
You’re literally doing it again, you’re not even distinguishing between someone being able to voice a character “properly” and voicing a character because they share the same sex as them. If you can’t see how it’s restricting to restrict VA’s based on gender and not ability then I’m honestly speechless.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:15 am If your only argument is a baseless acusation of sexism then I can say with certainty you are the one falling on the “stupid” side or reasoning here.
“ An old lady voicing a grown man will always be a no for me”

Hmm, maybe this will help you,

“A black man voicing a white man will always be a no to me”

Do you see the potential message here?
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:15 am You keep calling me or my opinion stupid, stupid meaning lack of common sense, when common sense (sound judgment in practical matters) is the very thing I'm basing my opinion on, a practical judgement,
Yes, it was stupid, be clearer.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:15 am along with my criteria as someone who's worked in VA for 10 plus years having grown into the bussiness with my mom being a VA too and knowing there are basic aspects that are taken into account in casting that lean on a basic physical (vocal) match before anything else believe it or not.
Right, you grew up with a parent who’s a VA and you’re a VA yourself yet still suggest that it should be based on gender DESPITE saying that it should be based on ability but then alluding that it’s not restricting to just expect women to play characters based on their genders as well as men? Do you understand how all over the place you are? I understand after reading everything, it’s as simple as saying

“Usually men are typically suited for man characters as women are for men, though it ultimately all comes down to ability of the VA being able to do a voice suited for that character”.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:15 am If Nozawa sounds like a man to you that's you're opinion
Goku doesn’t sound typically male, but he definitely is a man.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:15 am and I have mine and there's nothing stupid about it. The only thing that's stupid is acusing someone of being discriminative against a gender because they don't like such person for a particular role. That is plain dumb
Everything above should essentially explain why this idea I was attacking you for thinking her voice doesn’t fit because of her performance doesn’t hold up.

Nah I got no better argument. Nozawa is an old lady who sounds like one. That is why she doesn’t fit the character of Goku IN MY HUMBLE OPINION . That's it. Your attacks are off base
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by NitroEX » Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:26 am

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:18 am Kelamis did dub the flashbacks to Namek, which included Goku freaking out before the planet exploded, but I agree there was so much more he could have done with that material.
Definitely, though I was thinking more about the first Super Saiyan transformation, as well as the "I am" speech and "His name was Krillin!!".
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:52 am By the looks of things Ocean were also looking for actors that could show commitment for their Kai dub. Robo4900 noticed a pattern that it was the longest running cast members from both Vancouver and Calgary that were re-auditioned, hence neither Kelamis nor Corlett were asked to audition as both played Goku for significantly less episodes than Morrow.
I suspect there might be more to it than that. Doc Harris implied he also wasn't asked to audition despite being their narrator consistently in the past. In the case of Kelamis and Corlett I think it was assumed (wrongly) by Ocean that the actors wouldn't be interested based on how they left the role in the past. Either that or a fear that they might demand higher pay due to their worth increasing since the late 90s/early 2000s. Both of them stopped dubbing anime altogether around the same time (until Ian returned for Yashahime with Viz) so it could be natural to assume at the time that they were retired from it. Although I personally spoke with Kelamis at a convention a few years ago and he said he'd love to voice Goku again so it's obvious nobody from Ocean actually spoke to him, it's a real shame in my opinion, though the way things have gone it might not have been heard even if they did come back.

At the end of the day, the producers might not have liked those previous portrayals either but I think not being asked to audition would most likely have been about availability or the perceived price of that particular actor.

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:19 am

Nozawa, but I also like Schemmel and the Ocean guys.
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by jjgp1112 » Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:19 am

Aim wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:50 am

Like, if a black guy can do a good voice for Goku, why shouldn’t he? Or should he be excluded because of race instead of gender? After all you speak of a baseline, which I honestly can think of a thousand different voices people may consider baseline, to me it just seems like you mean someone that just obvious sounds like the typical man.

When we are talking about baselines there’s like a thousand different variables that come in, tone, dialect, pitch, all that stuff, which Nozawa does perfectly for what Son Goku’s character is. Again, like I said, this just sounds like “it’s not man enough”, perhaps you could explain further.
Did you seriously just try to play this card with me? Shit, considering Goku's dialect I'd expect a black voice actor to knock it out the park, and considering black voices have a little more bass in them compared to white folks I think it would go over well with the people you keep strawmanning, too.

A "typical man voice" has a wide range, and Nozawa is way outside of that and also kind of grating. I don't want a Goku voice to sound particularly deep, but I wouldn't want it to sound like Nozawa either - hence why I think Sean Schemmel, Ian Corlett et al are in the right wheelhouse.
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:29 am

jjgp1112 wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:19 am
Aim wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:50 am

Like, if a black guy can do a good voice for Goku, why shouldn’t he? Or should he be excluded because of race instead of gender? After all you speak of a baseline, which I honestly can think of a thousand different voices people may consider baseline, to me it just seems like you mean someone that just obvious sounds like the typical man.

When we are talking about baselines there’s like a thousand different variables that come in, tone, dialect, pitch, all that stuff, which Nozawa does perfectly for what Son Goku’s character is. Again, like I said, this just sounds like “it’s not man enough”, perhaps you could explain further.
Did you seriously just try to play this card with me? Shit, considering Goku's dialect I'd expect a black voice actor to knock it out the park, and considering black voices have a little more bass in them compared to white folks I think it would go over well with the people you keep strawmanning, too.

A "typical man voice" has a wide range, and Nozawa is way outside of that and also kind of grating. I don't want a Goku voice to sound particularly deep, but I wouldn't want it to sound like Nozawa either - hence why I think Sean Schemmel, Ian Corlett et al are in the right wheelhouse.
A black guy voicing Goku would be an interesting change of pace, but I dunno....I feel like it'd be jarring. Don't call me a racist for this one because I'm not trying to be, but I'd prefer if Goku was voiced by a Japanese person, and if not him, then maybe MasakoX. There's a black YouTuber named SSJ9K that does a pretty good Goku (search up "what if goku and vegeta were black" to see some of his work), and even though he's funny AF, I think it'd make more sense for a Japanese guy to voice him, since Goku is literally a humanoid alien that grew up in the jungle and has a hickory Japanese accent. Now MasakoX, however...I'm sorry, I just love his TFS Goku voice way too much.
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by PurestEvil » Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:34 am

Why should the identity of a VA be the major factor in casting? It's not like we are going to see them in the freaking show. As long as they give a good and fit performance, it doesn't matter much.

Case in point: Phil LaMarr, the VA of Samurai Jack
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by dva_raza » Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am

Aim wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:43 amMe too, people get really offended these days when they’re criticized and honestly it’s really tiring when they complain about that.
You don’t sound tired at all, you sound like you want to argue very very badly. Which I would be fine with if it was done in a coherent way, but clearly that’s not happening from your end. I say this because of the fact that you acknowledged what I said at the begining of your latest post but then you procede to deny I said it.
I said a few times already, that even though men USUALLY sound like men and women usually sound like women hence the “importance” of gender to some degree, I DON’T care about someone’s gender morso about the voice being a match for the character’s gender.
I'm copying it:

- I should’ve said "a person who sounds like an old lady will always be a no for me" for Goku.

- What I care about is how the voice sounds not who the person is.

- there are basic aspects that are taken into account in casting that lean on a basic physical (vocal) match before anything else
(a vocal match is a vocal match, it can come from any gender to any character)

Sure. I have a question, have you seen the man that plays Masako Nozawa in Tajima Identity?
No
If so, does seeing that voice come out of a real life man still sound off putting?
Yes it would.
I literally adressed that here: Or if Goku’s japanese voice actor was a man who sounded exactly like Nozawa I would critizise it just the same because he sounds like a woman and that’s offputing for me as it doesn’t match the character.

dva_raza wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:15 am
Probably from the fact that she makes Goku sound womanly.
I would actually beg to differ,
I am very aware by this point that you differ. I don’t see why you keep arguing, I said everyone has a different perception of how masculine or feminine she sounds and you need to accept that and make peace with it
And yes, it is sexist to suggest women shouldn’t voice men because they are women, if that makes your head spin then I have no idea what to say to you
The only thing that’s making my head spin is how shamelessly you either insert words I didn’t say or leave out things I did say that would interfere in you straw man attempt.
I never said they should or shouldn’t do it, I said I prefer a more naturally suiting voice just the same as I would prefer a female character to be voiced by a female actress, and not by a male actor who KINDA sounds female. By “naturally” suiting I am refering to the basic fact that men usually sound like men and women usually sound like women without having to make effort to do it.

dva_raza wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:15 am
...no? I don't think. Wtf are you talking about? Women play women, men play men. How are women restricted?
You’re literally doing it again, you’re not even distinguishing between someone being able to voice a character “properly” and voicing a character because they share the same sex as them. If you can’t see how it’s restricting to restrict VA’s based on gender and not ability then I’m honestly speechless
...... again.. what tha F are you talking about?
You said women are being restricted - I asked how are they being restricted when they are voicing (usually) characters of their own gender, while men are voicing (usually) characters if their own gender. Where is the restriction for women?

“A black man voicing a white man will always be a no to me”

Do you see the potential message here?
No.
I don’t see what the race of a person has to do with their tone/type of voice as it does in the case of gender.
Only maybe the accent, but that is something actors are usually able to neutralize or change to match the character
yet still suggest that it should be based on gender DESPITE saying that it should be based on ability. Do you understand how all over the place you are?
I didn’t say it should be based on gender I said it should be based on the voice matching. It's right there.

All over the place is precisely how I would describe your latest post. I’m not sure if you're genuinely not understanding what I’m saying or you’re just throwing any random thing you can think of because you can’t handle the fact that you lost the debate from the moment you began making baseless attacks, let it go
Last edited by dva_raza on Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by dva_raza » Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:51 am

PurestEvil wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:34 am Why should the identity of a VA be the major factor in casting? It's not like we are going to see them in the freaking show. As long as they give a good and fit performance, it doesn't matter much.

Case in point: Phil LaMarr, the VA of Samurai Jack
It shouldn't and it isn't a factor. Don't know if your replying to what I said or something else. The only thing that matters is the accuracy in the voice for what the character is supposed to be

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