Favorite Goku Voice?

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by MyVisionity » Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:56 am

PurestEvil wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:07 am A woman voicing a man is also a “contradiction”.
Yes, but that's a marginalized group voicing a dominant group, meaning not a problematic situation.

PurestEvil wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:07 am “Sound like an Asian” is an incredibly vague term that encompasses billions of people and hundreds of cultures. It is pretty much subjective.
I wasn't referring to the *sound* of a non-Asian voice, just non-Asian voice work in and of itself. It's an inherent contradiction to an Asian character and thus does negate the character's Asian identity.

PurestEvil wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:07 am The issue here is you are effectively arguing that Chris Sabat and Phil LaMarr were doing something as immoral as literal yellow face.
No, I have not argued any such thing. I called the practice out as racist, but there are all different forms and degrees of racism. You made the connection with Yellowface, not me.

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:57 am

ABED wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:46 am Masako Nozawa hands down. After that, Schemmel. Corlette is good for that version of Goku but he lacks the energy Goku requires and his performance doesn't convey manchild.
It's easy to say in retrospect Corlett didn't have the energy, but like the other actors in the Saban dub he wasn't exactly very well educated on the character. Schemmel's delivery was very flat and wooden when he started off in season 3, but today he plays the childlike aspects of Goku's character excellently having learned more over the years about the type of person Goku is. There's no reason Corlett couldn't have improved his performance if he was given the opportunities Schemmel had.
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by PurestEvil » Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:17 am

MyVisionity wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:56 am
PurestEvil wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:07 am “Sound like an Asian” is an incredibly vague term that encompasses billions of people and hundreds of cultures. It is pretty much subjective.
I wasn't referring to the *sound* of a non-Asian voice, just non-Asian voice work in and of itself. It's an inherent contradiction to an Asian character and thus does negate the character's Asian identity.
That is even more arbitrary and meaningless.
PurestEvil wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:07 am The issue here is you are effectively arguing that Chris Sabat and Phil LaMarr were doing something as immoral as literal yellow face.
No, I have not argued any such thing. I called the practice out as racist, but there are all different forms and degrees of racism. You made the connection with Yellowface, not me.
Correct, I was speaking rhetorically because your argument is absurd.
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:28 pm

ABED wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:46 am Masako Nozawa hands down. After that, Schemmel. Corlette is good for that version of Goku but he lacks the energy Goku requires and his performance doesn't convey manchild.
I’m quite fond of Corlette’s take, mostly on talent alone, but I will say his Goku always seemed more like the nice chill guy you’d have a beer with and not a kung fu hillbilly.

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by BootyCheeksJohnson » Sun Nov 14, 2021 1:25 am

I completely forgot about the different kid Goku actors. As far as English speaking actors go I don't care for Stephanie Nadolny or Colleen Clinkenbeard. I think that Saffron Henderson did the best job. Too bad she never really got a fair shot at the character.
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by Aim » Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:44 am

jjgp1112 wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:19 am Did you seriously just try to play this card with me? Shit, considering Goku's dialect I'd expect a black voice actor to knock it out the park,
What card? I was literally explaining how it wouldn’t make sense to exclude a black guy based on race, it’s all depending on the performance.
jjgp1112 wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:19 am and considering black voices have a little more bass in them compared to white folks I think it would go over well with the people you keep strawmanning, too.
Again, what people? The one guy in this thread I strawmanned once at the start? Listen, I get it, your brain is very big. You’re so desperate for an own your brain is swelling.
jjgp1112 wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:19 am A "typical man voice" has a wide range, and Nozawa is way outside of that
Which isn’t a bad thing, I’ve thought about this and I’ve looked over the evolution of Son Goku from kid to adult, there is a change in his voice, albeit not exactly the same one you’d see in a typical male, there’s something fitting about it for someone like Goku, guess it’s why Toriyama still roots for her.

jjgp1112 wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:19 am and also kind of grating. I don't want a Goku voice to sound particularly deep, but I wouldn't want it to sound like Nozawa either - hence why I think Sean Schemmel, Ian Corlett et al are in the right wheelhouse.
Funny since Schemmel completely betrays that during serious and fight scenes and power up scenes. Everything else he does is okay.

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by Aim » Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:03 am

dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am You don’t sound tired at all, you sound like you want to argue very very badly.
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I can see you’re very, very tired.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am Which I would be fine with if it was done in a coherent way, but clearly that’s not happening from your end.
Image

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’baseless’
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am I say this because of the fact that you acknowledged what I said at the begining of your latest post but then you procede to deny I said it.
I never said you denied it, if anything I just told you to be clearer, because you kept walking back.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am I said a few times already, that even though men USUALLY sound like men and women usually sound like women hence the “importance” of gender to some degree, I DON’T care about someone’s gender morso about the voice being a match for the character’s gender.
In which I already answered and said “Fair”.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am I'm copying it:

- I should’ve said "a person who sounds like an old lady will always be a no for me" for Goku.

- What I care about is how the voice sounds not who the person is.

- there are basic aspects that are taken into account in casting that lean on a basic physical (vocal) match before anything else
(a vocal match is a vocal match, it can come from any gender to any character)
Basically.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am No
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aW9KQ39WzGQ

I think it’s very interesting.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am Yes it would.
I literally adressed that here: Or if Goku’s japanese voice actor was a man who sounded exactly like Nozawa I would critizise it just the same because he sounds like a woman
Right, however I’ve found that when seeing it actually come out of a mans mouth it’s a lot less bizarre to people that Goku would sound like that.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am and that’s offputing for me as it doesn’t match the character.
Welp, if that’s how you see the character .
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am dva_raza wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:15 am
Probably from the fact that she makes Goku sound womanly.
I would actually beg to differ,
I am very aware by this point that you differ. I don’t see why you keep arguing, I said everyone has a different perception of how masculine or feminine she sounds and you need to accept that and make peace with it
If you want to stop arguing, let me know, and it can stop, otherwise I think I’ve made myself clear that I enjoy in engaging in discussion like this, as I’ve said before, I’m aware of the different perceptions, which is why after saying “I beg to differ” I followed up with some theories on why the sound is perceived differently across the two cultures. You’re still super offended and hooked up on the fact I opened this discussion being less than respectful, let it go.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am The only thing that’s making my head spin is how shamelessly you either insert words I didn’t say or leave out things I did say that would interfere in you straw man attempt.
Image
It’s what you initially said, then it seemed like you were going around it circles. This is the whole reason I responded.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am I never said they should or shouldn’t do it, I said I prefer a more naturally suiting voice just the same as I would prefer a female character to be voiced by a female actress, and not by a male actor who KINDA sounds female.
And what if that’s what the character is meant to sound like that? What if that voice is meant to help portray a kind of personality or catch people off guard or even possibly act as a contrast to said characters attributes?

I seriously wonder if this is why western dubs just absolutely lack any kind of unique variation in their voices, because of how absolutely rigid and prevalent this view is, yes this is your preference, however I’m criticizing it, because this is an open forum and I think this is a restricting view. You claim to be a VA and work in the industry, is this a view held by many? I assume so but who knows. Some of the greatest va’s I’ve heard have literally been able to switch between gendered voices, which mean if there’s a female character who particularly sounds unique, people with names associated with men I’m guessing would be crossed out without being a chance to be heard for gender specific characters? Goes the same way.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am By “naturally” suiting I am refering to the basic fact that men usually sound like men and women usually sound like women without having to make effort to do it.

Does it matter if it takes effort?
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am...... again.. what tha F are you talking about?
You said women are being restricted - I asked how are they being restricted when they are voicing (usually) characters of their own gender, while men are voicing (usually) characters if their own gender. Where is the restriction for women?
Wait, what if they can actually voice men of the specific shows? We see this in Japan, that’s what I mean by restriction, it loses that touch that makes it unique. That’s what I mean by restricting. You get it now?
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am No.
I don’t see what the race of a person has to do with their tone/type of voice as it does in the case of gender.
Only maybe the accent, but that is something actors are usually able to neutralize or change to match the character
We spoke of typically, there is absolutely a difference here that has a whole bunch of variables that play in. It was perfectly comparable.

I’m surprised you haven’t brought up vocal tract length, weight, and all that when it comes to the gendered voices, which people have been able to achieve through training and even naturally. If we actually encouraged more variation in voices instead of “typically this typically that”, we would have a wider range of voices in anime like what we see in their original versions.

My opinion though, you’re free to criticize it, I won’t cry I promise.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am
yet still suggest that it should be based on gender DESPITE saying that it should be based on ability. Do you understand how all over the place you are?
I didn’t say it should be based on gender I said it should be based on the voice matching. It's right there.
Image

Sounds like you put a lot of emphasis on the person actually matching the gender of the character when we’ve been talking about how if someone can MATCH the voice, not based on looks but on the tone, original, and all the other nuances, then it shouldn’t matter. Get it?

dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am All over the place is precisely how I would describe your latest post.
Touché, feels like you read how I feel about your posts.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am I’m not sure if you're genuinely not understanding what I’m saying or you’re just throwing any random thing you can think of because you can’t handle the fact that you lost the debate from the moment you began making baseless attacks, let it go
Well you weren’t very clear from the moment you posted here, so I would have my bets on that you’re probably not expressing yourself very well.

As I said, if you want it to stop, just say so.

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:53 am

Does everyone who says they don't like a female actress voicing an adult male feel the same about Linda Young playing Freeza?
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:25 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:57 am
ABED wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:46 am Masako Nozawa hands down. After that, Schemmel. Corlette is good for that version of Goku but he lacks the energy Goku requires and his performance doesn't convey manchild.
It's easy to say in retrospect Corlett didn't have the energy, but like the other actors in the Saban dub he wasn't exactly very well educated on the character. Schemmel's delivery was very flat and wooden when he started off in season 3, but today he plays the childlike aspects of Goku's character excellently having learned more over the years about the type of person Goku is. There's no reason Corlett couldn't have improved his performance if he was given the opportunities Schemmel had.
While I agree that Corlett certainly always had more potential than Schemmel, I understand that you can't judge what you didn't see. For all we know, Steve Blum could've drastically improved his take on Goku and he could've been the greatest voice actor in Goku history. But we have to judge what we got. It's a bit tilted because Schemmel had a lot more time to get it right than anyone else (except Nozawa), but the fact is that he did drastically improve. So. I get it. But I still don't have Schemmel in my top 2 or 3. Not that he's not talented, he's just got some steep competition.

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:47 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:53 am Does everyone who says they don't like a female actress voicing an adult male feel the same about Linda Young playing Freeza?
Isn't Krillin's Japanese VA a woman also? For both kid and adult?
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:53 pm

Corlett definitely could have pulled off the sillier/manchild Goku had the Ocean version been written that way https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn3tf7Zz9Vs. Honestly, Schemmel's laugh for Goku sounds very similar to his. The only thing of Corlett's that needed improvement to me were his screams.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:00 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:53 pm Corlett definitely could have pulled off the sillier/manchild Goku had the Ocean version been written that way https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn3tf7Zz9Vs. Honestly, Schemmel's laugh for Goku sounds very similar to his. The only thing of Corlett's that needed improvement to me were his screams.
Corlett didn't get paid for the screams 😏

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:18 pm

Aim wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:03 am
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am You don’t sound tired at all, you sound like you want to argue very very badly.
Image

Image

I can see you’re very, very tired.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am Which I would be fine with if it was done in a coherent way, but clearly that’s not happening from your end.
Image

Image

Image

Image

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’baseless’
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am I say this because of the fact that you acknowledged what I said at the begining of your latest post but then you procede to deny I said it.
I never said you denied it, if anything I just told you to be clearer, because you kept walking back.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am I said a few times already, that even though men USUALLY sound like men and women usually sound like women hence the “importance” of gender to some degree, I DON’T care about someone’s gender morso about the voice being a match for the character’s gender.
In which I already answered and said “Fair”.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am I'm copying it:

- I should’ve said "a person who sounds like an old lady will always be a no for me" for Goku.

- What I care about is how the voice sounds not who the person is.

- there are basic aspects that are taken into account in casting that lean on a basic physical (vocal) match before anything else
(a vocal match is a vocal match, it can come from any gender to any character)
Basically.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am No
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aW9KQ39WzGQ

I think it’s very interesting.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am Yes it would.
I literally adressed that here: Or if Goku’s japanese voice actor was a man who sounded exactly like Nozawa I would critizise it just the same because he sounds like a woman
Right, however I’ve found that when seeing it actually come out of a mans mouth it’s a lot less bizarre to people that Goku would sound like that.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am and that’s offputing for me as it doesn’t match the character.
Welp, if that’s how you see the character .
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am dva_raza wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:15 am
Probably from the fact that she makes Goku sound womanly.
I would actually beg to differ,
I am very aware by this point that you differ. I don’t see why you keep arguing, I said everyone has a different perception of how masculine or feminine she sounds and you need to accept that and make peace with it
If you want to stop arguing, let me know, and it can stop, otherwise I think I’ve made myself clear that I enjoy in engaging in discussion like this, as I’ve said before, I’m aware of the different perceptions, which is why after saying “I beg to differ” I followed up with some theories on why the sound is perceived differently across the two cultures. You’re still super offended and hooked up on the fact I opened this discussion being less than respectful, let it go.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am The only thing that’s making my head spin is how shamelessly you either insert words I didn’t say or leave out things I did say that would interfere in you straw man attempt.
Image
It’s what you initially said, then it seemed like you were going around it circles. This is the whole reason I responded.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am I never said they should or shouldn’t do it, I said I prefer a more naturally suiting voice just the same as I would prefer a female character to be voiced by a female actress, and not by a male actor who KINDA sounds female.
And what if that’s what the character is meant to sound like that? What if that voice is meant to help portray a kind of personality or catch people off guard or even possibly act as a contrast to said characters attributes?

I seriously wonder if this is why western dubs just absolutely lack any kind of unique variation in their voices, because of how absolutely rigid and prevalent this view is, yes this is your preference, however I’m criticizing it, because this is an open forum and I think this is a restricting view. You claim to be a VA and work in the industry, is this a view held by many? I assume so but who knows. Some of the greatest va’s I’ve heard have literally been able to switch between gendered voices, which mean if there’s a female character who particularly sounds unique, people with names associated with men I’m guessing would be crossed out without being a chance to be heard for gender specific characters? Goes the same way.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am By “naturally” suiting I am refering to the basic fact that men usually sound like men and women usually sound like women without having to make effort to do it.

Does it matter if it takes effort?
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am...... again.. what tha F are you talking about?
You said women are being restricted - I asked how are they being restricted when they are voicing (usually) characters of their own gender, while men are voicing (usually) characters if their own gender. Where is the restriction for women?
Wait, what if they can actually voice men of the specific shows? We see this in Japan, that’s what I mean by restriction, it loses that touch that makes it unique. That’s what I mean by restricting. You get it now?
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am No.
I don’t see what the race of a person has to do with their tone/type of voice as it does in the case of gender.
Only maybe the accent, but that is something actors are usually able to neutralize or change to match the character
We spoke of typically, there is absolutely a difference here that has a whole bunch of variables that play in. It was perfectly comparable.

I’m surprised you haven’t brought up vocal tract length, weight, and all that when it comes to the gendered voices, which people have been able to achieve through training and even naturally. If we actually encouraged more variation in voices instead of “typically this typically that”, we would have a wider range of voices in anime like what we see in their original versions.

My opinion though, you’re free to criticize it, I won’t cry I promise.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am
yet still suggest that it should be based on gender DESPITE saying that it should be based on ability. Do you understand how all over the place you are?
I didn’t say it should be based on gender I said it should be based on the voice matching. It's right there.
Image

Sounds like you put a lot of emphasis on the person actually matching the gender of the character when we’ve been talking about how if someone can MATCH the voice, not based on looks but on the tone, original, and all the other nuances, then it shouldn’t matter. Get it?

dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am All over the place is precisely how I would describe your latest post.
Touché, feels like you read how I feel about your posts.
dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am I’m not sure if you're genuinely not understanding what I’m saying or you’re just throwing any random thing you can think of because you can’t handle the fact that you lost the debate from the moment you began making baseless attacks, let it go
Well you weren’t very clear from the moment you posted here, so I would have my bets on that you’re probably not expressing yourself very well.

As I said, if you want it to stop, just say so.
Is there a reason you felt the need to screenshot all of this shit? Jesus, dude.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by Gilby1385 » Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:36 pm

Ermagerd. What is this madness?
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by MyVisionity » Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:53 pm

Maybe not quote an entire lengthy post and just "snip" or spoiler tag the contents instead.

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:47 pm
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:53 am Does everyone who says they don't like a female actress voicing an adult male feel the same about Linda Young playing Freeza?
Isn't Krillin's Japanese VA a woman also? For both kid and adult?
Yes, Mayumi Tanaka is female.

I suppose that a lot of people don't think of Freeza or Kuririn as being "manly enough" to require male voice actors.

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by ZeroIsOurHero » Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:06 pm

MyVisionity wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:53 pm I suppose that a lot of people don't think of Freeza or Kuririn as being "manly enough" to require male voice actors.
Yeah, that's kind of my thought process, although I don't think it's as misogynistic as you seem to be implying. If a male character has a skinnier, shorter, or generally more "androgynous" appearance, them being voiced by a woman feels a lot less jarring. I feel like that's the reason why people who complain about Nozawa's Goku are perfectly fine with the voices for Naruto and Luffy: If a male character has a physique that looks like it was chiseled out of marble, them being voiced by a woman becomes a lot harder to buy.

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by ABED » Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:14 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:53 pm Corlett definitely could have pulled off the sillier/manchild Goku had the Ocean version been written that way https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn3tf7Zz9Vs. Honestly, Schemmel's laugh for Goku sounds very similar to his. The only thing of Corlett's that needed improvement to me were his screams.
I don't get manchild from that clip at all.
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by MyVisionity » Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:34 pm

Goku's not really much of a manchild. He's silly, and can be childlike at times, but he's still mostly a mature adult. His core personality is unchanging, but that's not exactly immaturity.

DB Super is a whole other matter.

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:35 pm

ABED wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:14 pm
Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:53 pm Corlett definitely could have pulled off the sillier/manchild Goku had the Ocean version been written that way https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn3tf7Zz9Vs. Honestly, Schemmel's laugh for Goku sounds very similar to his. The only thing of Corlett's that needed improvement to me were his screams.
I don't get manchild from that clip at all.
I don't really disagree, since he wasn't directed that way. I just personally feel he tapped into the humor well enough that he could have pulled it off. For me, the delivery here doesn't sound all that different from some of Schemmel's delivery Kai-onwards. Especially since even in Kai and later, Schemmel's version doesn't talk like a hick.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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ABED
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by ABED » Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:13 pm

I'd be willing to be proven wrong, but I just don't think he can convincingly pull off man child. I just don't think that plays to his strengths.
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