Favorite Goku Voice?

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by PurestEvil » Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:08 pm

dva_raza wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:51 am
PurestEvil wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:34 am Why should the identity of a VA be the major factor in casting? It's not like we are going to see them in the freaking show. As long as they give a good and fit performance, it doesn't matter much.

Case in point: Phil LaMarr, the VA of Samurai Jack
It shouldn't and it isn't a factor. Don't know if your replying to what I said or something else. The only thing that matters is the accuracy in the voice for what the character is supposed to be
I was replying to FPSSJ_4
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by BeaBumby » Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:28 pm

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by goku the krump dancer » Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:54 pm

BeaBumby wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:28 pm I apologise for making this post
No need to apologize, these kinds of topics can get pretty heated sometimes and this far from the worst of it.

Also I had no idea Steve Blum voiced Goku in Final Bout, guess it’s a blessing that it doesn’t get acknowledged much because it’s horrible lol. Definitely not his best work.
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Nov 12, 2021 2:27 pm

goku the krump dancer wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:54 pm
BeaBumby wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:28 pm I apologise for making this post
No need to apologize, these kinds of topics can get pretty heated sometimes and this far from the worst of it.

Also I had no idea Steve Blum voiced Goku in Final Bout, guess it’s a blessing that it doesn’t get acknowledged much because it’s horrible lol. Definitely not his best work.
I feel like if he was given a better understanding of his character he could have done a good job. I’m thinking Bandai didn’t give the Final Bout cast much to go off of.

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by MyVisionity » Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:37 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:34 am Why should the identity of a VA be the major factor in casting? It's not like we are going to see them in the freaking show. As long as they give a good and fit performance, it doesn't matter much.

Case in point: Phil LaMarr, the VA of Samurai Jack
Identity in society matters. Having a Black actor get paid for voicing an Asian character is problematic. Having a white actor get paid for voicing a non-white character is even more problematic.

It's important for minorities to have control and ownership over their representations in media. Casting in accordance with identity is one way to ensure this.

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by PurestEvil » Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:01 pm

MyVisionity wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:37 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:34 am Why should the identity of a VA be the major factor in casting? It's not like we are going to see them in the freaking show. As long as they give a good and fit performance, it doesn't matter much.

Case in point: Phil LaMarr, the VA of Samurai Jack
Identity in society matters. Having a Black actor get paid for voicing an Asian character is problematic. Having a white actor get paid for voicing a non-white character is even more problematic.

It's important for minorities to have control and ownership over their representations in media. Casting in accordance with identity is one way to ensure this.
Unless the portrayal of a character who is not racially coded to the VA is meant to be racist, then there is nothing inherently problematic in these mix-matched castings.
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by MyVisionity » Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:15 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:01 pm Unless the portrayal of a character who is not racially coded to the VA is meant to be racist, then there is nothing inherently problematic in these mix-matched castings.
It is inherently racist, yes. To deny a marginalized group ownership of its representation in media is racist, no matter who is doing so. Even more racist when it is a white person doing so.

The portrayal of the character is irrelevant, as is anyone's intent.

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by PurestEvil » Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:34 pm

MyVisionity wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:15 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:01 pm Unless the portrayal of a character who is not racially coded to the VA is meant to be racist, then there is nothing inherently problematic in these mix-matched castings.
It is inherently racist, yes. To deny a marginalized group ownership of its representation in media is racist, no matter who is doing so. Even more racist when it is a white person doing so.

The portrayal of the character is irrelevant, as is anyone's intent.
That is terribly black-and-white logic. People who watch animated content will not contemplate over who is behind the voicework (so long as it is not bad voicework); they focus on the character itself, who is comprised by how they look and sound. Is every single anime dub racist/unethical because they cast white VAs to voice Asian characters? Or all the Japanese versions of anime that feature non-East asian characters voiced by Japanese VAs?
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:05 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:34 pm
MyVisionity wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:15 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:01 pm Unless the portrayal of a character who is not racially coded to the VA is meant to be racist, then there is nothing inherently problematic in these mix-matched castings.
It is inherently racist, yes. To deny a marginalized group ownership of its representation in media is racist, no matter who is doing so. Even more racist when it is a white person doing so.

The portrayal of the character is irrelevant, as is anyone's intent.
That is terribly black-and-white logic. People who watch animated content will not contemplate over who is behind the voicework (so long as it is not bad voicework); they focus on the character itself, who is comprised by how they look and sound. Is every single anime dub racist/unethical because they cast white VAs to voice Asian characters? Or all the Japanese versions of anime that feature non-East asian characters voiced by Japanese VAs?
Not to mention Japanese dubs of shows that feature non-East Asian characters
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:36 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:34 pm
MyVisionity wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:15 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:01 pm Unless the portrayal of a character who is not racially coded to the VA is meant to be racist, then there is nothing inherently problematic in these mix-matched castings.
It is inherently racist, yes. To deny a marginalized group ownership of its representation in media is racist, no matter who is doing so. Even more racist when it is a white person doing so.

The portrayal of the character is irrelevant, as is anyone's intent.
That is terribly black-and-white logic. People who watch animated content will not contemplate over who is behind the voicework (so long as it is not bad voicework); they focus on the character itself, who is comprised by how they look and sound. Is every single anime dub racist/unethical because they cast white VAs to voice Asian characters? Or all the Japanese versions of anime that feature non-East asian characters voiced by Japanese VAs?
Not to mention Japanese dubs of shows that feature non-East Asian characters
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by MyVisionity » Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:14 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:34 pm That is terribly black-and-white logic. People who watch animated content will not contemplate over who is behind the voicework (so long as it is not bad voicework); they focus on the character itself, who is comprised by how they look and sound. Is every single anime dub racist/unethical because they cast white VAs to voice Asian characters? Or all the Japanese versions of anime that feature non-East asian characters voiced by Japanese VAs?
It's not just about the people who watch the content. It's also about the people who make the content, as well as the content itself. All of those things are important factors regarding identity within any piece of media.

People who watch the content often do contemplate who is behind the voicework. Some people go beyond just the surface. And with just a little bit of research, they can easily discover who exactly is voicing the characters they watch.

You're right about the sound of the character, and as you can see from this very thread, the sound of someone's voice is directly tied to their identity group. Viewers will pick up on it.

Yes, I think that I would say that every anime dub that casts non-Asian actors as Asian characters is indeed racist.

As for Asian actors voicing non-Asian characters, that depends. If they are voicing white folks, then no, that would not be racist. If they are voicing other non-whites, then yes that would be racist.

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by PurestEvil » Sat Nov 13, 2021 2:51 am

MyVisionity wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:14 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:34 pm That is terribly black-and-white logic. People who watch animated content will not contemplate over who is behind the voicework (so long as it is not bad voicework); they focus on the character itself, who is comprised by how they look and sound. Is every single anime dub racist/unethical because they cast white VAs to voice Asian characters? Or all the Japanese versions of anime that feature non-East asian characters voiced by Japanese VAs?
It's not just about the people who watch the content. It's also about the people who make the content, as well as the content itself. All of those things are important factors regarding identity within any piece of media.

People who watch the content often do contemplate who is behind the voicework. Some people go beyond just the surface. And with just a little bit of research, they can easily discover who exactly is voicing the characters they watch.

You're right about the sound of the character, and as you can see from this very thread, the sound of someone's voice is directly tied to their identity group. Viewers will pick up on it.
If an Asian character is voiced by a non-Asian character, it’s not going to negate them being Asian.
Also, there clearly are exceptions, which was argued in this thread, too.
Yes, I think that I would say that every anime dub that casts non-Asian actors as Asian characters is indeed racist.

As for Asian actors voicing non-Asian characters, that depends. If they are voicing white folks, then no, that would not be racist. If they are voicing other non-whites, then yes that would be racist.
That is plain silly. If those example as so immoral, how could a non-Asian VA being cast for an Asian coded character harm the Asian communities of America (and the inverse case for Japan)? You are making this a bigger issue than it is.
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:08 am

Also My Visionity side-stepped the example that asked what would he feel if people of different ethnicities were portrayed by Japanese voice actors people in an anime.
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by BootyCheeksJohnson » Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:36 am

I have a feeling that this thread might get locked due to some of the arguments going on, but let me get my two cents out there.
The way I see it is, Dragon Ball is a cartoon and Goku is kind of a weirdo. So I find it pretty easy to suspend my disbelief.
We need a Steve Simmons retranslation of the manga.

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by MyVisionity » Sat Nov 13, 2021 4:22 am

PurestEvil wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 2:51 am If an Asian character is voiced by a non-Asian character, it’s not going to negate them being Asian.
Yes it will. Once you introduce a non-Asian individual into an Asian character, that character is no longer as Asian as they could be or should be.

PurestEvil wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 2:51 am
Yes, I think that I would say that every anime dub that casts non-Asian actors as Asian characters is indeed racist.

As for Asian actors voicing non-Asian characters, that depends. If they are voicing white folks, then no, that would not be racist. If they are voicing other non-whites, then yes that would be racist.
If those example as so immoral, how could a non-Asian VA being cast for an Asian coded character harm the Asian communities of America (and the inverse case for Japan)?
As I said, any time that you deny a marginalized group ownership of its representation in media, you are harming it. There are many ways that this occurs, including what I mentioned earlier about loss of income. There is also the matter of losing control over the narrative of being Asian, and how that affects Asians culturally. The power of a marginalized group to tell its own story is important. That power is denied if the voice actor field is white-dominated. So the more Asians cast, the better.

Cure Dragon 255 wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:08 am Also My Visionity side-stepped the example that asked what would he feel if people of different ethnicities were portrayed by Japanese voice actors people in an anime.
Nope, you must have missed it.

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by PurestEvil » Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:47 am

MyVisionity wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 4:22 am
PurestEvil wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 2:51 am If an Asian character is voiced by a non-Asian character, it’s not going to negate them being Asian.
Yes it will. Once you introduce a non-Asian individual into an Asian character, that character is no longer as Asian as they could be or should be.
I mean, that is as subjective as “Nozawa Goku sounds girly”.
PurestEvil wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 2:51 am
Yes, I think that I would say that every anime dub that casts non-Asian actors as Asian characters is indeed racist.

As for Asian actors voicing non-Asian characters, that depends. If they are voicing white folks, then no, that would not be racist. If they are voicing other non-whites, then yes that would be racist.
If those example as so immoral, how could a non-Asian VA being cast for an Asian coded character harm the Asian communities of America (and the inverse case for Japan)?
As I said, any time that you deny a marginalized group ownership of its representation in media, you are harming it. There are many ways that this occurs, including what I mentioned earlier about loss of income. There is also the matter of losing control over the narrative of being Asian, and how that affects Asians culturally. The power of a marginalized group to tell its own story is important. That power is denied if the voice actor field is white-dominated. So the more Asians cast, the better.
The sentence in bold brings me back to my earlier point: the casting and doesn’t matter to the audience if the performance is genuine. Do you have tangible proof that these “miscasts” of Asians in animation harm the white man’s perception of them? It is as likely as anime dubs making a net positive impact by introducing children to a new cultural medium of entertainment.
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by MyVisionity » Sat Nov 13, 2021 6:29 am

PurestEvil wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:47 am
MyVisionity wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 4:22 am
PurestEvil wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 2:51 am If an Asian character is voiced by a non-Asian character, it’s not going to negate them being Asian.
Yes it will. Once you introduce a non-Asian individual into an Asian character, that character is no longer as Asian as they could be or should be.
I mean, that is as subjective as “Nozawa Goku sounds girly”.
No, it's not subjective to say that the character will become less Asian. Logically, a non-Asian actor voicing an Asian character is a fundamental contradiction.

PurestEvil wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:47 am
As I said, any time that you deny a marginalized group ownership of its representation in media, you are harming it. There are many ways that this occurs, including what I mentioned earlier about loss of income. There is also the matter of losing control over the narrative of being Asian, and how that affects Asians culturally. The power of a marginalized group to tell its own story is important. That power is denied if the voice actor field is white-dominated. So the more Asians cast, the better.
Do you have tangible proof that these “miscasts” of Asians in animation harm the white man’s perception of them?
Who said anything about "the white man's perception"? Asian culture affects everyone in society, not just white folks.

I don't need tangible proof. Obviously an Asian-dominated field is more likely to be successful in telling Asian stories than one that is white dominated.

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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by NeflyteMasato » Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:08 am

Masako Nozawa is my personal favorite and preferred version, but I also really find myself partial to Ian Corlett’s dub performance.
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by ABED » Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:46 am

Masako Nozawa hands down. After that, Schemmel. Corlette is good for that version of Goku but he lacks the energy Goku requires and his performance doesn't convey manchild.
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Re: Favorite Goku Voice?

Post by PurestEvil » Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:07 am

MyVisionity wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 6:29 am
PurestEvil wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:47 am
MyVisionity wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 4:22 am

Yes it will. Once you introduce a non-Asian individual into an Asian character, that character is no longer as Asian as they could be or should be.
I mean, that is as subjective as “Nozawa Goku sounds girly”.
No, it's not subjective to say that the character will become less Asian. Logically, a non-Asian actor voicing an Asian character is a fundamental contradiction.
A woman voicing a man is also a “contradiction”.
“Sound like an Asian” is an incredibly vague term that encompasses billions of people and hundreds of cultures. It is pretty much subjective.
I don't need tangible proof. Obviously an Asian-dominated field is more likely to be successful in telling Asian stories than one that is white dominated.
I never said that white people should dominate the field. Obviously, input from Asians can improve the authenticity of a work based on Asian culture.
The issue here is you are effectively arguing that Chris Sabat and Phil LaMarr were doing something as immoral as literal yellow face.
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