When do you think DBS made Goku too stupid?

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super michael
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When do you think DBS made Goku too stupid?

Post by super michael » Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:20 am

Just like the title says when do you think they made Goku too stupid in DBS?

In my opinion the episode of Beerus in a costume and Goku Black Saga.

Beerus in Monaka costume
Krillin screams Taiyoken and thinks Monaka flashing light was him transforming. The costume was breaking, yet nothing.
Puar talks while transformed as Beerus, yet can't tell that isn't Beerus voice.

Yamcha spills the beans yet nothing. Goku is near everyone but can't tell by ki signature or scent of smell.

Worse of all neither Monaka, Puar and Beerus hide their scent by using cologne or perfume.

Goku Black Saga
Goku forgets the Senzu bean, he forgets the urn for the Mafuba and doesn't get the talisman from Master Roshi, even though we clearly see Master Roshi went inside his house to get the talisman.

Just because Goku Black refused to use his full power, Goku refused to use his full power.

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Re: When do you think DBS made Goku too stupid?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:47 am

It seems like they overdid the “Goku is dumb” thing in Super to ridiculous degrees. True, in Toriyama’s original story he wasn’t exactly what you would call the brightest tool in the shed but that said it wasn’t quite to the over the top ridiculous levels as mentioned above. Heck, in the original anime run of DB, DBZ and even in GT Toei’s writers at the time didn’t Flanderize him to the degree that Super’s did. If anything, they actually disagreed with Toriyama’s interpretation in the manga and decided to make him a more heroic and noble character.

I think it was for the lulz, almost like they figured “Hey, let’s make Goku a huge dumbass because that’ll make the kiddos laugh.” and because they apparently saw comedic potential in that.
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Re: When do you think DBS made Goku too stupid?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:54 am

When he acted like a retard with Zamasu for an entire episode.

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Re: When do you think DBS made Goku too stupid?

Post by PurestEvil » Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:06 pm

Most "stupid Super Goku" moments were gags. However, Goku powering down before Golden Freeza and forgetting the senzu bean AND talisman were the dumbest bits IMO.
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Re: When do you think DBS made Goku too stupid?

Post by Saiya6Cit » Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:20 pm

K, guys, you know I haven't watch super entirely but I lost all hopes in Goku Super when I found out goku hired Hit to kill him, and I believe it was Vegeta the one who figured it out.

What a downgrade

At some point I thought goku was disabled, like Forrest Gump, you know the hit on the head not only took away the saiyan agressiveness but also a few neurons.

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Re: When do you think DBS made Goku too stupid?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:43 pm

Suggesting Freeza be the final fighter on Universe 7's team. I know they were under pressure for time and Freeza wasn't allowed to go behind Goku's back and kill someone, but they all saw how much stronger he became with just a little bit of training in the Resurrection F arc. Any chance Freeza has now to get stronger could make him an exponentially more dangerous threat than he already was in Super. I can't blame Vegeta at all for being so annoyed with Goku in DBS Broly.
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Re: When do you think DBS made Goku too stupid?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:43 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:06 pm Most "stupid Super Goku" moments were gags. However, Goku powering down before Golden Freeza and forgetting the senzu bean AND talisman were the dumbest bits IMO.
True, but even then it felt overdone even compared to when he was a kid, where the gags were a lot more natural.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: When do you think DBS made Goku too stupid?

Post by super michael » Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:44 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:43 pm Suggesting Freeza be the final fighter on Universe 7's team. I know they were under pressure for time and Freeza wasn't allowed to go behind Goku's back and kill someone, but they all saw how much stronger he became with just a little bit of training in the Resurrection F arc. Any chance Freeza has now to get stronger could make him an exponentially more dangerous threat than he already was in Super. I can't blame Vegeta at all for being so annoyed with Goku in DBS Broly.
Vegeta sure didn't give any other alternative than Freeza. He didn't want to give his son or Goten any chance to train to enter the ToP, even though the ROSAT exist.

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Re: When do you think DBS made Goku too stupid?

Post by TheMikado » Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:14 pm

Pretty much since the first episodes.
Standouts:
Goku is lazy and let’s Goten drive his tractor knowing that’s his source of income. Goku and Goten proceed to tear up their farming field.

Goku has trouble understanding the among of Denny being given to him. Dub actually makes it worse because in the sub Goku as a simple math question. In the dub Goku asks if 1 million is more than 100,000. This makes zero sense as Goku has a total grasp of large numbers when he found out the distance of snake way.

When attempting to count up the saiyans for the ritual Goku counts wrong. The sub is a little better as it seems to imply Goku was just keeping track of whoever he could think of. The Dub massacres my dude by implying he can’t even count to 5-6 as he says math was not his strong suit.

I don’t event need to keep going, but it’s just this on repeat throughout the series. It’s gross

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Re: When do you think DBS made Goku too stupid?

Post by BootyCheeksJohnson » Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:21 pm

Probably Zamsu and Monaka.
From the bits and pieces of the manga that I've peeked at Goku seems more consistently written than in the anime. I think that might be due to only having 1 writer who works closer to Toriyama. He feels more like End of Z Goku, but he is lacking a lot of the fun and sillier side of Goku that Toriyama wrote.
We need a Steve Simmons retranslation of the manga.

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Re: When do you think DBS made Goku too stupid?

Post by capsulecorp » Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:03 pm

BootyCheeksJohnson wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:21 pm Probably Zamsu and Monaka.
From the bits and pieces of the manga that I've peeked at Goku seems more consistently written than in the anime. I think that might be due to only having 1 writer who works closer to Toriyama. He feels more like End of Z Goku, but he is lacking a lot of the fun and sillier side of Goku that Toriyama wrote.
yeah this is exactly right, imo, and one of the most irritating things about the writing in the anime. the anime goku feels like homer simpson... when writers are unskilled, busy or uninterested, its easy to fill time with jokes and gags about a character's stupidity.

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Re: When do you think DBS made Goku too stupid?

Post by Kataphrut » Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:36 am

Saiya6Cit wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:20 pm K, guys, you know I haven't watch super entirely but I lost all hopes in Goku Super when I found out goku hired Hit to kill him, and I believe it was Vegeta the one who figured it out.

What a downgrade

At some point I thought goku was disabled, like Forrest Gump, you know the hit on the head not only took away the saiyan agressiveness but also a few neurons.
That's one of the best bits though! He fought Hit in a tournament where he couldn't use his best techniques because they were lethal, of course he'd want to fight Hit at his full potential. It's totally in character for him and not even that stupid- if there's going to be another multiversal tournament, what better way to prepare than by fighting the last tournament's MVP at his best?

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Re: When do you think DBS made Goku too stupid?

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:42 am

I find the "doesn't know what kissing" thing to be silly in a bad way because I, for one, would like to marry Gokuu and that character beat is just kind of a turn off. 😆
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Re: When do you think DBS made Goku too stupid?

Post by BootyCheeksJohnson » Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:24 am

Kataphrut wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:36 am
Saiya6Cit wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:20 pm K, guys, you know I haven't watch super entirely but I lost all hopes in Goku Super when I found out goku hired Hit to kill him, and I believe it was Vegeta the one who figured it out.

What a downgrade

At some point I thought goku was disabled, like Forrest Gump, you know the hit on the head not only took away the saiyan agressiveness but also a few neurons.
That's one of the best bits though! He fought Hit in a tournament where he couldn't use his best techniques because they were lethal, of course he'd want to fight Hit at his full potential. It's totally in character for him and not even that stupid- if there's going to be another multiversal tournament, what better way to prepare than by fighting the last tournament's MVP at his best?
Yeah I never found that to be bad, annoying, or out of character. If anything the fight itself showed off Goku's quick thinking and brilliance as a fighter. Especially how he interpreted Hit killing him, so he shot a ki blast into the air that would gain enough velocity on the way down to restart his heart.
Now forgetting the Senzu on the toilet, that was stupid.
We need a Steve Simmons retranslation of the manga.

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Re: When do you think DBS made Goku too stupid?

Post by super michael » Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:14 am

Goku dropping his guard in the ToP so much that he couldn't react so extremely dumb of him, since he knew he was the target.
Goku being upset at C17 for attacking the 3 amateur girls while wide open and doing silly poses was dumb of Goku. Goku used to take advantage of those wide open, but somehow C17 doing it is wrong.

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Re: When do you think DBS made Goku too stupid?

Post by super michael » Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:55 pm

Here is my complete list of DB/DBZ vs DBS Goku in differences:

---
DB Goku = Tien you cheater. This is in 22nd world martial art tournament. Chiaotzu uses magic.
DBS Goku = Goku doesn't realize someone doing something to slow him down. Chiaotzu uses magic.
---
DB Goku = Goku the only one to know who is stronger between Tien and Tai Pai Pai
DBS Goku = Goku the only one to not know Monaka is weak.
---
DB Goku = Goku the only one who knew Kami was lying. Goku was the only one to know Kami was in a disguise as a human.
DBS Goku = Goku the only one who doesn't know that Beerus was lying and was in a costume.
---
DB Goku = I recognise his scent, Master Shen reveal his identity.
DBS Goku = Can't tell he is fighting Beerus, even though the ki is of Beerus, costume breaking and no masking scent. Goku can hear their voice, smell their scent and Yamcha spilled the beans but nothing Goku is brainless. Goku could see Krillin in front and hear him say Taiyoken and yet he thought that flashing light was Monaka.
---
DB Goku = Never forgets senzu beans
DBS Goku = Forgets senzu beans, urn and talisman, which lead to Future Trunks time line being erased, since Mafuba was useless. Master Roshi wasn't the one who forgot.
---
DB Goku = Wanted to avenge Uppa father
DBS Goku = Doesn't care that Vegeta was disappearing
---
DB and DBZ Goku = Rarely drop their guard
DBS Goku = Enjoys dropping his guard too much even when he knows he is the target and can get attacked at any time. His guard is so down that he can't react at all.
---
DB and DBZ Goku = Able to keep secrets with no problem
DBS Goku = Unable to keep secrets stated by Bulma
---
DB and DBZ Goku = Doesn’t Force or pester anyone to fight him.
DBS Goku = Forces anyone to fight him, even if they have no desire or just plain don't want to fight such as Monaka, Zamasu, Gohan, etc.
---
DB and DBZ Goku = acknowledge some of his mistakes
DBS Goku = doesn’t acknowledge any mistakes he does
*DBZ Goku acknowledge letting Vegeta was a mistake and when the Cell Jr beat up the Z fighters.
---
DB and DBZ Goku = When Goku see someone die, he always thinks of using the Dragon Balls to revive even if they are strangers who he never met.
DBS Goku = When Jiren ask Goku what would he wish for, Goku says that he doesn't know even though he saw the other Universe erased.
---
DB Goku = Was waiting patiently to get trained by Master Roshi and obeyed him.
DBS Goku = Goku was annoying Whis and being inpatient, even though Whis agreed to train him. Goku got so annoying that Whis considered not training him.
---
DB/DBZ Goku = Attacks when someone guard is wide open or can't sense ki.
DBS Goku = Gets annoyed if anyone attacks while transforming, no matter how wide open they are. Refuse to use full power if his opponent refuse to use their full power like Goku Black.
---

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Re: When do you think DBS made Goku too stupid?

Post by Cursed Lemon » Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:33 pm

Lukewarm take: Goku historically was never dumb, just naive and sheltered. Only in DBS did he become an idiot, and an obnoxious one too. The VERY FIRST SCENE of him whining incessantly about doing farm work was jarringly out of character.
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Re: When do you think DBS made Goku too stupid?

Post by ABED » Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:32 pm

Cursed Lemon wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:33 pm Lukewarm take: Goku historically was never dumb, just naive and sheltered. Only in DBS did he become an idiot, and an obnoxious one too. The VERY FIRST SCENE of him whining incessantly about doing farm work was jarringly out of character.
How was it out of character?
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Re: When do you think DBS made Goku too stupid?

Post by Aim » Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:28 am

Did Toriyama ever tell them to make Goku extremely dumb? Or do they just always seem to screw things up these days? Toei that is.

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Re: When do you think DBS made Goku too stupid?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:14 am

  • Constantly dropping his guard so much I lost count.
  • Not knowing what kissing is
  • Not know where babies come from
  • His general attitude during the Tournament of Power
  • Giving Moro a senzu
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DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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