Pre- BoG Z Movie Timeline/Continuity thread

[Asin]

I apologize if this shouldn't be in this section of the forum, but I've begun pondering certain things about Z movies 1 to 13 (4 to 16 out of all movie releases) and thought to ask it here to my fellow members of Kanzenshuu. Namely, what sort of events would have to be altered in order for the movies to fit into a continuity? Or rather, what sort of what-if scenario would at least some of the movies be the result of? It also has me wondering about how a continuity with a movie's events would continue to play out. Would some arcs even simply cease as the results of a movie being in that continuity?

I recall reading a post in the "Non-thread-worthy discussions" thread which off-handedly mentioned movie 12 (or 15) as being potentially a "what if Goku remained dead after his one day expired on Earth during the Buu saga" which kickstarted these thoughts, and I would like to see what my fellow forum users have to say about such things.

Finally, if this is indeed the wrong area for such a topic, please let me know and I shall move it to somewhere more appropriate.

[Grimlock]

The sort of events that need to be altered should be from the anime. The events of the movies should remain intact. There's already a great discussion about this, so you may want to read it. I also suggest reading KBABZ's document since he already tells you the sort of differences that should happen in the anime in more details.

I recall reading a post in the "Non-thread-worthy discussions" thread which off-handedly mentioned movie 12 (or 15) as being potentially a "what if Goku remained dead after his one day expired on Earth during the Buu saga".

This kind of scenario is inconceivable. It differs so much that it becomes impossible to assume such thing happened without affecting what came before and what will come after.

The differences between the anime that you watched and the anime where the movies happened should be as organic and plausible as possible, but nothing that deviates too much.

[Asin]

The sort of events that need to be altered should be from the anime. The events of the movies should remain intact.

That's what I was trying to convey. Apologies if that was not clear.

I also suggest reading KBABZ's document since he already tells you the sort of differences that should happen in the anime in more details.

Oh, is there a link to the document readily available? I am unsure where to find it.

I recall reading a post in the "Non-thread-worthy discussions" thread which off-handedly mentioned movie 12 (or 15) as being potentially a "what if Goku remained dead after his one day expired on Earth during the Buu saga" which kickstarted these thoughts, and I would like to see what my fellow forum users have to say about such things.

This kind of scenario is inconceivable. It differs so much that it becomes impossible to assume such thing happened without affecting what came before and what will come after.

The differences between the anime that you watched and the anime where the movies happened should be as organic and plausible as possible. Nothing that deviates too much.

That's what I was trying to figure out, what would have needed to come before and what would come after! Although, as you said, there wouldn't be too much deviation, so I can only assume that making this thread was utterly pointless?

[Grimlock]

You would find by reading the conversation, but here it is. Still, it's better that you also read the conversation before reading this article. See what people are saying will help.

[Asin]

You would find by reading the conversation, but here it is. Still, it's better that you also read the conversation before reading this article. See what people are saying will help.

Thank you very much for this document! I shall read the conversation as well.

...Should I remove this topic though? It seems pointless now...

[dbgtFO]

I think it's worth keeping up, that other thread was a rewatch thread primarily and last reply was 2 months ago, but let's see what mods say.

As for topic I agree with having all the Z movies in the same continuity and then changing the anime's events to make them fit.

Garlic Jr. movie is before Raditz' arrival.

Dr. Wheelo movie is after the battle with Nappa and Vegeta, but here since Goku was just a little bit stronger, he managed to reach Piccolo in time and save him from death with a senzu.
And maybe the other guys are a bit more savyy and don't get themselves killed like they did originally, but are still knocked out.

Tullece movie is after that though apparently Namek is mentioned in some capacity, so I need to rewatch to make sure what to work around.

Lord slug takes place after an altered version of the Namek Arc, where Goku beats Freeza with the Genkidama.

Then the Garlic Jr. filler arc takes place and then I can't recall more.

Like Kbabbz and a bunch of others I too wanted to make fleshed out document making the Z movies fit together. It's time to finish it lol.

[Grimlock]

Lord slug takes place after an altered version of the Namek Arc, where Goku beats Freeza with the Genkidama.

Why? Because Goku didn't transform into Super Saiyan in the movie? If so, here's the reason:



Freeza saga played out just the same as we know it. It's something else after that saga that should be changed.

(Coming to think about this, it makes a lot of sense and it's interesting. Goku transformed into Super Saiyan, but since he couldn't do it anymore after beating Freeza, he merely got a "glimpse" of it during Movie 4 events. A "glimpse" known as "False Super Saiyan". The result of someone who has transformed into Super Saiyan before, but isn't capable of doing it again at will. Hadn't thought about that this way).

[dbgtFO]

Lord slug takes place after an altered version of the Namek Arc, where Goku beats Freeza with the Genkidama.

Why? Because Goku didn't transform into Super Saiyan in the movie? If so, here's the reason:

Spoiler:

Freeza saga played out just the same as we know it. It's something else after that saga that should be changed.

For now that's how I would reconcile it, if Lord Slug has to be after Freeza's defeat, because Kaio speculated if Goku has now finally achieved Super Saiyan, when Goku went "False Super Saiyan" against Slug. If he has already seen Super Saiyan, he would know it already.

[MasenkoHA]

The dialog in Z movie 4 made it clear Goku had never achieved Super Saiyan before.

[Koitsukai]

KBABZ's document is amazing if you want to fit everything in just one continuity.

Regarding what "small" changes could've happened for the particular circumstances of the movies to take place, I should re-watch most of them, but off the top of my mind:

-Cooler movie: Goku is on vacation, not trying to master or attain again SS, he is just chilling with his friends, and still depends on kaioken -not even trying to go SS, so probably he killed Freeza with the genkidama. Vegeta is not around, so he is either dead or he is in space looking for Goku... who's on Earth.

-Broly movie: everybody is enrolling their kids in school, even Goku and Chichi, so there's no Cell Games around the corner, people were fleeing town days before it, not planning their kids' future.
No FPSS for the Son family, but they have the haircuts and the clothes, so they must've exited the ROSAT and learned Vegeta and Trunks dealt with Cell and dropped their training.
There's no GOHAN YOU ARE OUR SAVIOUR, GET ANGRY PLEASE shit, so maybe inside the ROSAT it wasn't about making Gohan unlock his full potential, but making Goku stronger and also get Gohan go SS and that's it.

-Android 13 movie: Trunks is in this timeline, Piccolo is merged with Kami, 17 and 18 were activated, Gero was killed by 17. Everything is peaceful, the Z gang is living their lives, they are going shopping. Goku is not sick, nobody entered the ROSAT. My bet, Kamiccolo killed Cell, and defeated the androids, who may or may not still be alive. Or they were deactivated by Bulma.

Janemba: Goku is dead and having a good time in the Other World's TB, not on Shin's planet following the fate of the Earth, Vegeta is dead and without a body. Gotenks is a thing, Gohan has his ultimate form, Earth is overran by dead fighters. Buu is nowhere to be seen, he is not a threat, not engaging the dead fighters and also not part of them (Cell wasn't among them either).
Gotenks or Gohan killed Buu, but perhaps Mr. Satan saved the world... again. But if the latter happened, then why does Gohan have ultimate? IIRC, Gohan was just training with the Z- sword when all that happened. I think Gohan killed Super Buu without wasting time, just like he oneshot Freeza, while Gotenks seems to be as immature as always when dealing with the nazis.

Hirudegan: Post Buu arc.

[MasenkoHA]

I feel like there’s no actual way to present all the movies in a single continuity unless you straight up actual facts and events presented in the movies.

[Koitsukai]

I feel like there’s no actual way to present all the movies in a single continuity unless you straight up actual facts and events presented in the movies.

Well, in that document there are big changes in the story for them to fit, like really big ones. You have to take a lot of liberties for it to work.

[Grimlock]

For now that's how I would reconcile it, if Lord Slug has to be after Freeza's defeat, because Kaio speculated if Goku has now finally achieved Super Saiyan, when Goku went "False Super Saiyan" against Slug. If he has already seen Super Saiyan, he would know it already.

Oh, you're absolutely right. I forgot that Kaio of North saw Super Saiyan in Freeza saga. Guess we'll indeed have to change that part. Dunno... Maybe assume Kaio of North was busy training the other dead ones? Or, because this is Dragon Ball, Kaio of North "fell asleep" at some point and didn't see Goku's Super Saiyan transformation... That's why he assumes False Super Saiyan is Super Saiyan. I think getting rid of Kaio of North witnessing Goku's fight wouldn't be a drastic change, so maybe it's an acceptable one that won't affect anything in the grand scheme of things.

I was thinking, Goku beating Freeza with the Genki-Dama implies (?) he returned to Earth with everyone. So in this scenario, he wouldn't even know about Yadorat. What would you do here?

[dbgtFO]

For now that's how I would reconcile it, if Lord Slug has to be after Freeza's defeat, because Kaio speculated if Goku has now finally achieved Super Saiyan, when Goku went "False Super Saiyan" against Slug. If he has already seen Super Saiyan, he would know it already.

Oh, you're absolutely right. I forgot that Kaio of North saw Super Saiyan in Freeza saga. Guess we'll indeed have to change that part. Dunno... Maybe assume Kaio of North was busy training the other dead ones? Or, because this is Dragon Ball, Kaio of North "fell asleep" at some point and didn't see Goku's Super Saiyan transformation... That's why he assumes False Super Saiyan is Super Saiyan. I think getting rid of Kaio of North witnessing Goku's fight wouldn't be a drastic change, so maybe it's an acceptable one that won't affect anything in the grand scheme of things.

I was thinking, Goku beating Freeza with the Genki-Dama implies (?) he returned to Earth with everyone. So in this scenario, he wouldn't even know about Yadorat. What would you do here?

This is my draft to how I wanted to do it.
I had a Yardrat Arc after the Freeza arc with the Ginyu Force being villains.
Also had Lord Slug before Freeza here, huh. It needs to be fleshed out a bit more.

[Grimlock]

I think that's a major departure. Instead of learning Goku defeated Freeza (and even having Ginyu team surviving the events of Freeza saga), the Yadorats somehow learned that they were targets of Cooler's army. They take Goku to their planet to train and everything else happens as we know it. At some point, Cooler learns that Freeza was defeated and decide to prioritize that instead, planning to go to Yadorat after defeating Goku.

That doesn't necessarily overwrites Ginyu's scheduled assault on the planet, because we don't know if Freeza and Cooler knew about each other's schemes. So at some point, they both intended to assault Yadorat (with Cooler apparently about to go first, which would explain why Yadorats knew about them but not about Freeza and his intentions).

What do you think of this?

But in regards to Movie 4, it has to be after Freeza saga. Freeza is mentioned in the movie if I remember correctly, isn't?

[Koitsukai]

I think that's a major departure. Instead of learning Goku defeated Freeza (and even having Ginyu team surviving the events of Freeza saga), the Yadorats somehow learned that they were targets of Cooler's army. They take Goku to their planet to train and everything else happens as we know it. At some point, Cooler learns that Freeza was defeated and decide to prioritize that instead, planning to go to Yadorat after defeating Goku.

That doesn't necessarily overwrites Ginyu's scheduled assault on the planet, because we don't know if Freeza and Cooler knew about each other's schemes. So at some point, they both intended to assault Yadorat (with Cooler apparently about to go first, which would explain why Yadorats knew about them but not about Freeza and his intentions).

What do you think of this?

But in regards to Movie 4, it has to be after Freeza saga. Freeza is mentioned in the movie if I remember correctly, isn't?

Yes, Kaio says Slug might be even stronger than Freeza.