Should non canon characters become canon?

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Kappa
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Should non canon characters become canon?

Post by Kappa » Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:57 pm

Thoughts? I personally think only a few should. (Baby, Omega Shenron, and Valese).

Baby- he would provide us with more lore about the Tuffles and he's pretty cool.

Omega Shenron- great concept. Could be interesting if done right.

Valese- she's a minor character but she and Goten are a cute couple, so I'd like to see her become canon. Or a similar character.
Last edited by Kappa on Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Should non canon characters become canon?

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:01 pm

I'm not particularly interested in re-visiting even more versions of things I've already seen in the past, and I also haven't been particularly impressed with any of the lore expansions/retcons thus far.

It was a neat experiment, but I'm good now thanks. I'd actually be pretty OK just ending it all. (Again.) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The series doesn't need to be continuously running; one of the things that attracted me to it (and other manga/anime) in the first place (compared to what I saw out there in the mainstream American comics scene, which I wasn't attracted to) was the fact that they seemed to have distinct beginnings, middles, and most importantly ends.

I say let it go and come back with anniversary specials every decade or so. Let the kids have their own new franchises and characters without this baggage. I also have enough work to do with the existing content that I don't need even more on top of that! :lol:
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Re: Should non canon characters become canon?

Post by WittyUsername » Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:00 pm

I’m pretty sure Broly and Gogeta were the big ones who fans wanted to be made “canon,” and that’s what happened three years ago. I did have an idea for how they could handle Cooler, but since next year’s movie doesn’t look like it’ll have anything to do with him, that ship might’ve sailed at this point.

I will echo the sentiment that I think it’s about time for DBS to end. Let the upcoming movie and the finale to the Granolah arc (however it turns out) be the last hurrah for this era of Dragon Ball. It feels like it’s on its last legs anyway, considering that Super Hero apparently takes place right before the manga’s epilogue.

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Re: Should non canon characters become canon?

Post by ABED » Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:06 pm

No thanks
we've already got one
we don't need another one
it's already been done.
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Re: Should non canon characters become canon?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:32 pm

I pretty much agree with everything that VegettoEX said. I was pretty happy with Dragon Ball's end. I wasn't even thrilled with the anniversary specials/movies because I didn't want anything tainting my favorite franchise of all time. But, since we're in the thick of things with Super, I enjoy it. It's been a fun ride for the most part.

As for those characters becoming "canon" (let's not open up that can of worms), that would require a venture into GT territory. I could see a stand-alone movie, but nothing more. If they can cram Baby, the One-Star Dragon (I never remember what their actual names are), and Palace into one movie that takes place in the GT... timeline? Universe? Dimension? Whatever. Then, I'd be cool with it. But I wouldn't want them to rehash the events of GT and waste dozens of episodes on that.

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Re: Should non canon characters become canon?

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:35 pm

What purpose does making these characters canon serve?

Dragon Ball GT is still a thing that exist. Why do fans act like Toriyama/Shueisha/Toei literally wiped all traces of GT from existence?

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Re: Should non canon characters become canon?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:47 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:35 pm What purpose does making these characters canon serve?

Dragon Ball GT is still a thing that exist. Why do fans act like Toriyama/Shueisha/Toei literally wiped all traces of GT from existence?
They exist the same way that movie 8, 10, and 11 Broli and Gogeta existed until the latest movie and they all got their chance to wiggle into the main timeline (if that sounds better than "canon"). Some want the same for other characters, I guess.

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Re: Should non canon characters become canon?

Post by Kappa » Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:00 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:32 pm I pretty much agree with everything that VegettoEX said. I was pretty happy with Dragon Ball's end. I wasn't even thrilled with the anniversary specials/movies because I didn't want anything tainting my favorite franchise of all time. But, since we're in the thick of things with Super, I enjoy it. It's been a fun ride for the most part.

As for those characters becoming "canon" (let's not open up that can of worms), that would require a venture into GT territory. I could see a stand-alone movie, but nothing more. If they can cram Baby, the One-Star Dragon (I never remember what their actual names are), and Palace into one movie that takes place in the GT... timeline? Universe? Dimension? Whatever. Then, I'd be cool with it. But I wouldn't want them to rehash the events of GT and waste dozens of episodes on that.
I would personally like a trilogy of movies that take place after Z. One for Baby, one for Omega Shenron, and one of the z fighters just chillin. I'd probably have Valese be introduced in the last one. Then after the trilogy, DB can end.
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:35 pm What purpose does making these characters canon serve?

Dragon Ball GT is still a thing that exist. Why do fans act like Toriyama/Shueisha/Toei literally wiped all traces of GT from existence?
Well, I'm a big GT fan and i think it would be cool to see these characters reimagined. That's it, really.

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Re: Should non canon characters become canon?

Post by ABED » Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:16 pm

Kappa wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:00 pm Well, I'm a big GT fan and i think it would be cool to see these characters reimagined. That's it, really.
Why not just create new characters?
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Re: Should non canon characters become canon?

Post by Kappa » Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:27 pm

ABED wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:16 pm
Kappa wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:00 pm Well, I'm a big GT fan and i think it would be cool to see these characters reimagined. That's it, really.
Why not just create new characters?
I'd be perfectly fine with new characters. I would just prefer to see the ones I listed.

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Re: Should non canon characters become canon?

Post by Alruneia » Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:34 pm

Kappa wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:57 pm Thoughts? I personally think only a few should. (Baby, Omega Shenron, and Valese).

Baby- he would provide us with more lore about the Tuffles and he's pretty cool.

Omega Shenron- great concept. Could be interesting if done right.

Valese- she's a minor character but she and Goten are a cute couple, so I'd like to see her become canon. Or a similar character.
Generally, I don't agree with the concept of making non-canon characters canon if their "niche" can reasonably be filled with new characters. For example, Goten can easily have a girlfriend who isn't specifically Valese but just acts and maybe looks a bit like her. But, and I'm not sure how to properly word this, some characters have their place that no replacement could ever properly take and be fully accepted, if that makes sense. Like... only Broly is Broly, so to speak, introducing a new character to fill the Broly niche would just make people call him "fake Broly" or "Broly 2" or whatever else, and so if they really want to introduce a character just like that, then it's probably better to just make the non-canon character canon than to create a knockoff stand-in character.

That said, to answer the main question, the only character that comes to mind is a take on Cooler. He has his niche as Frieza's older brother, but unlike in the Z movies, Frieza is currently alive and has Golden Frieza, which throws things out of whack and could be used to make an interesting character-driven plot. I might also be able to stomach some version of Baby if the approach taken is vastly different (no Baby Vegeta because we've got enough Evil Vegeta as is, no reduction to the "I will now enslave the universe" motivation because that's boring, and Baby's final and best form has to be one where he isn't possessing anyone because that would show growth), but the amount of revisions and changes it'd need for me to like it is a bit high. I'm not really interested in seeing any more non-canon characters get brought into canon than that, and I don't need to see Cooler and Baby for the time being either. I want them to focus on making original stuff first and foremost.
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Re: Should non canon characters become canon?

Post by ABED » Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:38 pm

Kappa wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:27 pm
ABED wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:16 pm
Kappa wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:00 pm Well, I'm a big GT fan and i think it would be cool to see these characters reimagined. That's it, really.
Why not just create new characters?
I'd be perfectly fine with new characters. I would just prefer to see the ones I listed.
They're still there on your shelf or however you choose to watch the series. The energies of the creators is better spent making new stuff instead of taking a second bite at the apple.
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Re: Should non canon characters become canon?

Post by pepd » Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:40 pm

I'm not actively interested, but If he wants to, sure, I'm up for new DB and curious about his version.

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Re: Should non canon characters become canon?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:00 pm

If by "become canon" you mean doing a reboot like DBS Broly then big NO. One movie like that is enough, i won't stand another.
If you mean admit they are canon, then what difference does it make? People who like something more because it's "canon" are sad.

GT still exists. I don't want to see "Omega Shenron (GT)" and "Omega Shenron (Super)" in games like they are doing with Gogeta and Broly right now.

Besides, Shadow Dragons arc can't work in Super unless it's final arc just like in GT. Still, they can't make Goku leave with Shenron because of EoZ and that was one of things making that arc unique. It just wouldn't feel the same even if they made better fights. They can't replicate meaning of GTs ending no matter what and i don't want that to be erased.

Baby arc could work somehow, but without introducing SSJ4 it wouldn't be the same either. Climax of that arc was ape vs ape basically.

And i don't see how they can introduce Valese when Goten is still a kid. You mean kid version of Valese? I don't see any reason to do that.
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Re: Should non canon characters become canon?

Post by Kappa » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:49 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:00 pm If by "become canon" you mean doing a reboot like DBS Broly then big NO. One movie like that is enough, i won't stand another.
If you mean admit they are canon, then what difference does it make? People who like something more because it's "canon" are sad.

GT still exists. I don't want to see "Omega Shenron (GT)" and "Omega Shenron (Super)" in games like they are doing with Gogeta and Broly right now.

Besides, Shadow Dragons arc can't work in Super unless it's final arc just like in GT. Still, they can't make Goku leave with Shenron because of EoZ and that was one of things making that arc unique. It just wouldn't feel the same even if they made better fights. They can't replicate meaning of GTs ending no matter what and i don't want that to be erased.

Baby arc could work somehow, but without introducing SSJ4 it wouldn't be the same either. Climax of that arc was ape vs ape basically.

And i don't see how they can introduce Valese when Goten is still a kid. You mean kid version of Valese? I don't see any reason to do that.
Okay first of all, I'd like to see all the characters I listed sometime after Z.

Second of all, why would anyone want to see kid Valese? The new movie takes place around end of Z so Goten will probably look like his EoZ self from now on. So it would make sense for Valese to be an adult as well.

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Re: Should non canon characters become canon?

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:57 pm

Dragon Ball should be public domain so that people can do as they please with Dragon Ball.
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Re: Should non canon characters become canon?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:59 pm

Kappa wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:49 pm Second of all, why would anyone want to see kid Valese? The new movie takes place around end of Z so Goten will probably look like his EoZ self from now on. So it would make sense for Valese to be an adult as well.
Let's hope he does lol cause it would be hilarious if he did not, assuming he will even appear in that movie. Anyway, EoZ Goten was dating someone so maybe they could reintroduce Valese this way but let's be real, her character was irrelevant so they wouldn't even think about her probably.
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Re: Should non canon characters become canon?

Post by Kappa » Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:07 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:57 pm Dragon Ball should be public domain so that people can do as they please with Dragon Ball.
That would be pretty cool.
sunsetshimmer wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:59 pm
Kappa wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:49 pm Second of all, why would anyone want to see kid Valese? The new movie takes place around end of Z so Goten will probably look like his EoZ self from now on. So it would make sense for Valese to be an adult as well.
Let's hope he does lol cause it would be hilarious if he did not, assuming he will even appear in that movie. Anyway, EoZ Goten was dating someone so maybe they could reintroduce Valese this way but let's be real, her character was irrelevant so they wouldn't even think about her probably.
I hope so lol. :lol: and yeah you're right, but it would be cool if they did.

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Re: Should non canon characters become canon?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:33 am

Personally, I'd rather not. I'd rather have Baby and Omega Shenron, etc. stay unique to GT. Broly worked well enough, but he's also very different from the Z /Toei version so in some ways he felt like a brand new character. I don't really need to see that approach done with any of the GT villains being brought into the Super continuity. That, plus I'm sick and tired of villains from the past returning in general. Despite being a fan of Frieza in the TOP arc, I'm not sure it's done his overall character any favors having him stick around. I highly doubt the Dragon Ball franchise is ending anytime soon, even though I wouldn't be upset if it did (again) like others have said. But if it's going to continue and go past EoZ, I'd rather see new villains and a new approach in general.
Last edited by Demon Prince Piccolo on Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Should non canon characters become canon?

Post by Grimlock » Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:59 am

Given the context of your subsequent posts, I take that, to you, "becoming canon" means "getting reimagined". Characters "(re)appearing and getting another spotlight", so to speak.

I fail to see any correlation to canonicity here, but if I'm able to say anything is that no, no character should "get reimagined". It's utterly pointless to do so (we already have an unfortunate example of that in Broly). You will either end up with character very similar to the original one, to the point that it would be better to use the original one instead, or you will end up with character that will eventually become very different from the original one, to the point that it would be better to come up with a new character.

If you really want an already existing character to get "reimagined", take the original and use that one instead. You can "reimagine" the original one. It's the most sensible and logical thing to do. If that's not your intention, then you know... Hello, new characters (!?).
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