Japanese vs English names

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Japanese vs English names

Post by BeaBumby » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:18 am

Simply put, which names do you prefer?

Which name is your favorite in either language?

You can state your favorite character name, move name, whatever.

do you prefer Taiyoken or Solar Flare?
Genki Dama or Spirit Bomb?
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Re: Japanese vs English names

Post by sunsetshimmer » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:33 am

Depends really. The best things that came out from english naming were movies names and Shadow Dragons.

Most of movies before Battle of Gods had god damn terrible names that didn't tell anything about movie, while english names were much more simple and told you exactly what to expect. Broly is back? Then let's just call it "Broly second coming".

When it comes to dragons, with all the flaws their english dub for GT had, their names for evil dragons were brilliant. Not only they made them easier to remember and call by name rather than just calling them "Two star dragon" etc. but also someone had that amazing idea to make first letters of each dragons name combine into word SHENRON.

I also think names like Tien or Pikkon are good, they are not much different from original and work good for western audience i suppose.
I dislike changing Toppo to Top though, that sounds weird.

I also enjoy polish names from manga and DBS anime (first time we got DB dubbed except for DBZ movies 12&13).
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Re: Japanese vs English names

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:50 am

Mostly Japanese names for actual character names but I go back and forth on attack names. But I do prefer Solar Flare, Drunken Fist, and After-image technique over Taiyoken, Suiken, and Zanzoken. On the other hand, you won’t catch me ever using destructo disk which sounds like a Power Rangers monster of the day attack. It’s Kienzan, thank you.



sunsetshimmer wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:33 am .

I also think names like Tien or Pikkon are good, they are not much different from original and work good for western audience i suppose.
I dislike changing Toppo to Top though, that sounds weird.

I

Tien was such a dumb pointless change. Especially since they started regularly calling him Tien Shinhan since 2002. Tenshinhan is in no way hard to pronounce. I can at least understand Kuririn to Krillin because saying Kuririn out loud does sound a bit awkward.

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Re: Japanese vs English names

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:38 pm

I use some interchangeably depending on what I prefer. I'll forever prefer saying/spelling Krillin to Kuririn; the former also rolls off the tongue easier for me, and that goes for any other name in English where the "l" is substituted for the "r." However, I don't see Tenshinhan/Ten was changed to Tien Shienhan/Tien when the former is easier to say, so lately I've been using the former. It's pretty interchangeable with attack names, too. I love names like Kienzan and Sokidan, but I also use Spirit Bomb and Solar Flare. Roga Fu Fu Ken and Wolf Fang Fist I like equally.
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I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Japanese vs English names

Post by TheGreatness25 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:59 pm

I prefer the Japanese names. I really enjoy the Japanese version. I am also very into accuracy. A pretty recent development is that I pronounce the names in Japanese (in my mind) whenever discussing them. So, even though Vegeta is Vegeta, in my mind, I'd legitimately have it as "Bejita." Also, even though Goku is Goku, I think of his name as "Gokuu" instead of "Gou-ku." You know--how Funimation puts emphasis on the first syllable instead of the last like in Japanese. So, things like that. I also try to assign the characters' Japanese voices to the manga.

I've been going through different phases. In the early 2000s, despite liking the Japanese version, I would still use Funimation's names. But then, I started using Steve Simmons's. Then, I did my own thing, which I do to this day. The only thing is that I've been sharpening up my own interpretation on their names--it happens to really like up with Simmons's.

I always thought that I'd switch back and forth depending on which version I was discussing and whom I'm discussing with, but screw it--Japanese version all the way.

Now that Toei basically made the edict to use Funimation as the official English version for names, I understand why a lot of people use them. But it's hard to reconcile when you know some of them are flat out wrong. Like... we know that they're saying "Tenshinhan," so having "Tien" show up on the subtitles is crazy. It's just inaccurate.

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Re: Japanese vs English names

Post by sunsetshimmer » Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:56 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:59 pm Now that Toei basically made the edict to use Funimation as the official English version for names, I understand why a lot of people use them. But it's hard to reconcile when you know some of them are flat out wrong. Like... we know that they're saying "Tenshinhan," so having "Tien" show up on the subtitles is crazy. It's just inaccurate.
Yeah when it comes to subs i think they should stick to japanese versions. I had the same issue with english subs for last Digimon movie. They were using names like "Tai" instead of "Taichi" or "Matt" instead of "Yamato" following english dub versions. Luckily polish fansubs stick to japanese names, both for DB and Digimon.

Anyway, if you think that's inaccurate then let me tell you second version of GT we had in TV had japanese dub with lector translating from english dub. It's another level of craziness because not only names were different but also entire dialogue lines and you did not have to know japanese to hear that something is obviously VERY wrong.
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Re: Japanese vs English names

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:35 pm

Japanese names, without a question. Not even a debate in this household.

Also, I guess it's because I grew up with a really faithful dub, so I always dealt with the original names for pretty much everything.

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Re: Japanese vs English names

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:05 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:59 pm I prefer the Japanese names. I really enjoy the Japanese version. I am also very into accuracy.
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Re: Japanese vs English names

Post by PurestEvil » Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:42 pm

FPSSJ4_Goku wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:05 pm
TheGreatness25 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:59 pm I prefer the Japanese names. I really enjoy the Japanese version. I am also very into accuracy.
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Re: Japanese vs English names

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:03 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:59 pm A pretty recent development is that I pronounce the names in Japanese (in my mind) whenever discussing them. So, even though Vegeta is Vegeta, in my mind, I'd legitimately have it as "Bejita."
I would caution that you're not being faithful at all with this kind of mindset.

This is something I see so many fans get "tricked" into (for lack of a better phrase) on their journey to accuracy/faithfulness/respect/whatever you want to call it, but it's a total trap.

When a Japanese person/fan reads ベジータ they're not doing a multi-step process to understand and internally-translate the authenticity of what that references... but that's exactly what you're doing when you go "I'm reading the name Vegeta, but I know it's from Japan, and I want to be faithful, so I need to internally read this to myself as BE-JII-TA because that's the most accurate and literal way to read it".

All of that is already communicated by the "Vegeta" spelling: the reference, and in particular the pronunciation in your own language to the word in your own language.

Maybe "Vegeta" isn't the correct choice, because it's actually an English word being referenced in Japanese, and you could argue (I still wouldn't listen to you, but you could argue it!) that a Japanese person is internally-translating the name ベジータ to reference a word from another language that they probably more generally know as 野菜.

Instead, let's maybe use the example of Mr. Satan:

You're not being faithful to the Japanese by pronouncing it as "Sah-tahn." All you're doing is obfuscating the incredibly obvious reference that's otherwise using the exact same spelling. When a Japanese person hears サタン it's the exact same experience as an American hearing the name "Satan" with the way that we would normally say and hear that name. Saying "Say-Tin" is the best, all-encompassing, accurate, faithful, etc. way to "translate" that name and that meaning and that intent.

It's funny how being literally transliterative (that's a trademarked new phrase, by the way, you can't steal it) with character names is something that is so often made fun of by the casual crowd, but it's something I would equally deride... except it's for completely different reasons.

(This is all separate from, say, the "GO-ku" vs "go-kuu" pronunciation discussion, by the way, which I'm in favor of and practice myself.)
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Re: Japanese vs English names

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:34 pm

I use the Japanese names for the most part. I'll occasionally use Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego as names, though.
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Re: Japanese vs English names

Post by TheGreatness25 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:06 pm

VegettoEX wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:03 pm
TheGreatness25 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:59 pm A pretty recent development is that I pronounce the names in Japanese (in my mind) whenever discussing them. So, even though Vegeta is Vegeta, in my mind, I'd legitimately have it as "Bejita."
I would caution that you're not being faithful at all with this kind of mindset.

This is something I see so many fans get "tricked" into (for lack of a better phrase) on their journey to accuracy/faithfulness/respect/whatever you want to call it, but it's a total trap.

When a Japanese person/fan reads ベジータ they're not doing a multi-step process to understand and internally-translate the authenticity of what that references... but that's exactly what you're doing when you go "I'm reading the name Vegeta, but I know it's from Japan, and I want to be faithful, so I need to internally read this to myself as BE-JII-TA because that's the most accurate and literal way to read it".

All of that is already communicated by the "Vegeta" spelling: the reference, and in particular the pronunciation in your own language to the word in your own language.

Maybe "Vegeta" isn't the correct choice, because it's actually an English word being referenced in Japanese, and you could argue (I still wouldn't listen to you, but you could argue it!) that a Japanese person is internally-translating the name ベジータ to reference a word from another language that they probably more generally know as 野菜.

Instead, let's maybe use the example of Mr. Satan:

You're not being faithful to the Japanese by pronouncing it as "Sah-tahn." All you're doing is obfuscating the incredibly obvious reference that's otherwise using the exact same spelling. When a Japanese person hears サタン it's the exact same experience as an American hearing the name "Satan" with the way that we would normally say and hear that name. Saying "Say-Tin" is the best, all-encompassing, accurate, faithful, etc. way to "translate" that name and that meaning and that intent.

It's funny how being literally transliterative (that's a trademarked new phrase, by the way, you can't steal it) with character names is something that is so often made fun of by the casual crowd, but it's something I would equally deride... except it's for completely different reasons.

(This is all separate from, say, the "GO-ku" vs "go-kuu" pronunciation discussion, by the way, which I'm in favor of and practice myself.)
I totally agree. I guess I should clarify that I wish I could understand the dialog in its native tongue and play it back in my mind. Pronouncing their names the way they do is kind of my only way of simulating it in my mind. For example, when reading the manga, I read the words, but try to project the Japanese voices and since I've heard Masako Nozawa say "Vegeta" or "Piccolo," I picture her (as Goku) saying the names that I know her to say.

I am well aware that many of the name puns are based on English words that are adapted from English to begin with.

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Re: Japanese vs English names

Post by BeaBumby » Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:10 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:34 pm I use the Japanese names for the most part. I'll occasionally use Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego as names, though.
I completely forgot they had japanese names, what are they, anyway?
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Re: Japanese vs English names

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:28 pm

I alternate between English and Japanese spellings, for pronunciations I'm not an expert on all of them, so I will only use things like "Kai-Oh-Ken" that I know.

I don't like how there's still hostility from both sides, so I prefer to go with whatever terms the person I'm speaking to prefers. I didn't go out of my way to correct a friend who called Mr Satan "Hercule" because it's not worth it.

Yes unnecessary changes were made to the dub, but as long as we're aware of them then we're still fans of the same show. We can always educate people that have only been exposed to the dub.
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Re: Japanese vs English names

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:50 pm

VegettoEX wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:03 pm
TheGreatness25 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:59 pm A pretty recent development is that I pronounce the names in Japanese (in my mind) whenever discussing them. So, even though Vegeta is Vegeta, in my mind, I'd legitimately have it as "Bejita."
I would caution that you're not being faithful at all with this kind of mindset.

This is something I see so many fans get "tricked" into (for lack of a better phrase) on their journey to accuracy/faithfulness/respect/whatever you want to call it, but it's a total trap.

When a Japanese person/fan reads ベジータ they're not doing a multi-step process to understand and internally-translate the authenticity of what that references... but that's exactly what you're doing when you go "I'm reading the name Vegeta, but I know it's from Japan, and I want to be faithful, so I need to internally read this to myself as BE-JII-TA because that's the most accurate and literal way to read it".

All of that is already communicated by the "Vegeta" spelling: the reference, and in particular the pronunciation in your own language to the word in your own language.

Maybe "Vegeta" isn't the correct choice, because it's actually an English word being referenced in Japanese, and you could argue (I still wouldn't listen to you, but you could argue it!) that a Japanese person is internally-translating the name ベジータ to reference a word from another language that they probably more generally know as 野菜.

Instead, let's maybe use the example of Mr. Satan:

You're not being faithful to the Japanese by pronouncing it as "Sah-tahn." All you're doing is obfuscating the incredibly obvious reference that's otherwise using the exact same spelling. When a Japanese person hears サタン it's the exact same experience as an American hearing the name "Satan" with the way that we would normally say and hear that name. Saying "Say-Tin" is the best, all-encompassing, accurate, faithful, etc. way to "translate" that name and that meaning and that intent.

It's funny how being literally transliterative (that's a trademarked new phrase, by the way, you can't steal it) with character names is something that is so often made fun of by the casual crowd, but it's something I would equally deride... except it's for completely different reasons.

(This is all separate from, say, the "GO-ku" vs "go-kuu" pronunciation discussion, by the way, which I'm in favor of and practice myself.)
Yeah. Trying to emulate the exact Japanese pronunciation of intended English words is usually a bit pretentious IMO, especially for characters like Mr. Satan. It's like seeing wannabe amateur chefs insisting on doing the "proper" accent affectations on foreign dishes (usually Italian). "It's not bolognese, it's b̢̜̳͈̺͔̳ͅo̡̯̮͚̙̰͎̖l̲̜o̵͙͙̰͉g̸̱̞n̜̫̝̲e̪̜͉̹͎̱̘s͓̯̣e̸, you cretin!" Not a perfect analogy, mind, but there's a time and place for the rolling 'R's and stuff, y'know.

Admittedly, it is occasionally fun to imagine Norio Wakamoto screaming "BEJITAAA!?!" while reading the scene in the manga or whatever so I can understand where Greatness is coming from on that. But it's not how I type or pronounce it in everyday conversation. When it comes to entire re-translations of punny character names to English equivalents though, there are some lines I'm generally less keen on crossing, but that's a whole other discussion.
I completely forgot they had japanese names, what are they, anyway?
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Re: Japanese vs English names

Post by TheGreatness25 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:43 pm

LoganForkHands73 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:50 pm
VegettoEX wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:03 pm
TheGreatness25 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:59 pm A pretty recent development is that I pronounce the names in Japanese (in my mind) whenever discussing them. So, even though Vegeta is Vegeta, in my mind, I'd legitimately have it as "Bejita."
I would caution that you're not being faithful at all with this kind of mindset.

This is something I see so many fans get "tricked" into (for lack of a better phrase) on their journey to accuracy/faithfulness/respect/whatever you want to call it, but it's a total trap.

When a Japanese person/fan reads ベジータ they're not doing a multi-step process to understand and internally-translate the authenticity of what that references... but that's exactly what you're doing when you go "I'm reading the name Vegeta, but I know it's from Japan, and I want to be faithful, so I need to internally read this to myself as BE-JII-TA because that's the most accurate and literal way to read it".

All of that is already communicated by the "Vegeta" spelling: the reference, and in particular the pronunciation in your own language to the word in your own language.

Maybe "Vegeta" isn't the correct choice, because it's actually an English word being referenced in Japanese, and you could argue (I still wouldn't listen to you, but you could argue it!) that a Japanese person is internally-translating the name ベジータ to reference a word from another language that they probably more generally know as 野菜.

Instead, let's maybe use the example of Mr. Satan:

You're not being faithful to the Japanese by pronouncing it as "Sah-tahn." All you're doing is obfuscating the incredibly obvious reference that's otherwise using the exact same spelling. When a Japanese person hears サタン it's the exact same experience as an American hearing the name "Satan" with the way that we would normally say and hear that name. Saying "Say-Tin" is the best, all-encompassing, accurate, faithful, etc. way to "translate" that name and that meaning and that intent.

It's funny how being literally transliterative (that's a trademarked new phrase, by the way, you can't steal it) with character names is something that is so often made fun of by the casual crowd, but it's something I would equally deride... except it's for completely different reasons.

(This is all separate from, say, the "GO-ku" vs "go-kuu" pronunciation discussion, by the way, which I'm in favor of and practice myself.)
Yeah. Trying to emulate the exact Japanese pronunciation of intended English words is usually a bit pretentious IMO, especially for characters like Mr. Satan. It's like seeing wannabe amateur chefs insisting on doing the "proper" accent affectations on foreign dishes (usually Italian). "It's not bolognese, it's b̢̜̳͈̺͔̳ͅo̡̯̮͚̙̰͎̖l̲̜o̵͙͙̰͉g̸̱̞n̜̫̝̲e̪̜͉̹͎̱̘s͓̯̣e̸, you cretin!" Not a perfect analogy, mind, but there's a time and place for the rolling 'R's and stuff, y'know.

Admittedly, it is occasionally fun to imagine Norio Wakamoto screaming "BEJITAAA!?!" while reading the scene in the manga or whatever so I can understand where Greatness is coming from on that. But it's not how I type or pronounce it in everyday conversation. When it comes to entire re-translations of punny character names to English equivalents though, there are some lines I'm generally less keen on crossing, but that's a whole other discussion.
I completely forgot they had japanese names, what are they, anyway?
Migatte no Gokui and Wagamama no Gokui. :)

It's not how I spell or pronounce them either--I just imagine the Japanese voices saying the names and in my head, Nozawa says "Bejita" and "Piccoro" instead of "Vegeta" and "Piccolo" because that's just how it is.

It is funny to think about the scenario you laid out, though. The best example that comes to mind is how there was some season of Arrow where the League of Shadows had some serum or something (sorry, I half-watched it) and the serum was called "Mirakuru." And they spent all season talking about this Japanese serum called "Mirakuru" and the entire time Ibwas like, "Do... you mean 'Miracle?'"

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Re: Japanese vs English names

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:14 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:43 pm It's not how I spell or pronounce them either--I just imagine the Japanese voices saying the names and in my head, Nozawa says "Bejita" and "Piccoro" instead of "Vegeta" and "Piccolo" because that's just how it is.

It is funny to think about the scenario you laid out, though. The best example that comes to mind is how there was some season of Arrow where the League of Shadows had some serum or something (sorry, I half-watched it) and the serum was called "Mirakuru." And they spent all season talking about this Japanese serum called "Mirakuru" and the entire time Ibwas like, "Do... you mean 'Miracle?'"
I gotcha, man. Like I said, I mentally do the same sometimes. :)

Heh. Was this serum's full name "Rikumu Urutora Faitingu Mirakuru Bonba" by any chance? :wink:

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Re: Japanese vs English names

Post by TheGreatness25 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:20 pm

LoganForkHands73 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:14 pm
TheGreatness25 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:43 pm It's not how I spell or pronounce them either--I just imagine the Japanese voices saying the names and in my head, Nozawa says "Bejita" and "Piccoro" instead of "Vegeta" and "Piccolo" because that's just how it is.

It is funny to think about the scenario you laid out, though. The best example that comes to mind is how there was some season of Arrow where the League of Shadows had some serum or something (sorry, I half-watched it) and the serum was called "Mirakuru." And they spent all season talking about this Japanese serum called "Mirakuru" and the entire time Ibwas like, "Do... you mean 'Miracle?'"
I gotcha, man. Like I said, I mentally do the same sometimes. :)

Heh. Was this serum's full name "Rikumu Urutora Faitingu Mirakuru Bonba" by any chance? :wink:
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Re: Japanese vs English names

Post by fleahop » Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:45 am

VegettoEX wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:03 pm (This is all separate from, say, the "GO-ku" vs "go-kuu" pronunciation discussion, by the way, which I'm in favor of and practice myself.)
Why do you specifically keep that pronunciation then? Aside from just personal preference is there anything meaningful attached to it?
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Re: Japanese vs English names

Post by TheGreatness25 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:13 am

Not to speak to VegettoEX, but Goku's name is different than "Vegeta," "Bulma," "Baby," and other names based on English word. Goku's name isn't based on a non-Japanese word and it is pronpunced as "Go-kuu" rather than "Gou-ku." This is a case of where the name is mispronounced rather than adapted.

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