Why did 4Kids One Piece FAIL while Funimation's Dragon Ball succeeded?

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Re: Why did 4Kids One Piece FAIL while Funimation's Dragon Ball succeeded?

Post by Majin Buu » Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:58 am

Fionordequester wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:48 pm Judging the dub based on Season 3 is like judging James Marsters for his drunken rants performance in Xenoverse 2. Both were in their "we don't know what we're doing" phase, and drastically improved (not just marginally) almost immediately after. Neither are fair comparisons to what ended up being the baseline.
Even if the 4Kids dub had lasted long enough to "improve", it likely would only get to the level of where the Z dub was at the end of the Buu arc at best (more accurate to the original script than in the past, but still plenty inaccurate at times), since I doubt 4Kids would have cared enough to make the show more faithful to the original.

I say the Z dub only marginally improved because it still has that "we don't give a shit about being faithful to the original version" foundation, an issue that was never truly fixed. A substantively improved dub would be more faithful by default instead of this weird "we can be more faithful but will still partake in unnecessary creative liberties when we feel like it" state the Z dub ended in.
Adamant wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:34 pm The only actual difference between the two is that 4Kids One Piece ended and got replaced before its fans got old enough to go on the Internet and start fights about how much 4Kids saved One Piece and how even Oda watches it in English because the Japanese version is so terrible.
Exactly. They're the same type of bad dub. One just lasted long enough to marginally improve, the other did not.

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Re: Why did 4Kids One Piece FAIL while Funimation's Dragon Ball succeeded?

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:02 pm

I don't know why but this strikes me as ironic, given that One Piece has reached 1000 episodes.
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Re: Why did 4Kids One Piece FAIL while Funimation's Dragon Ball succeeded?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:10 pm

In Japan. Doraemon is even more famous and has more episodes in Japan but its virtually unknown in the USA.
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: Why did 4Kids One Piece FAIL while Funimation's Dragon Ball succeeded?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:10 pm

Dragon Ball succeeded where One Piece failed largely in part due to the fact that One Piece just isn't very well produced early on in the series. Meanwhile, the animation for Dragon Ball Z was much better and set itself apart from other cartoons airing in the US at the time the series rose to fame in the mainstream market. Furthermore, 4Kids had to contend with a bunch of angry, high-energy bitchy teenage girls named Julie complaining about edits made to their anime on forums as early as 2003.

That is to say, I don't think the localization was an issue at all.
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Re: Why did 4Kids One Piece FAIL while Funimation's Dragon Ball succeeded?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:15 pm

DragonBallFoodie wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:02 pm I don't know why but this strikes me as ironic, given that One Piece has reached 1000 episodes.
4Kids only dubbed the first 143 episodes of One Piece, whereas Funimation has dubbed everything Dragon Ball-related other than Yo! Son Goku and his Friends Return, and other obscure OVAs and specials. If anything the fact that Funimation's dub of One Piece has been so we'll regarded and has currently reached episode 746 just goes to show they were a much better fit for the series all along than 4Kids.
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Re: Why did 4Kids One Piece FAIL while Funimation's Dragon Ball succeeded?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:28 pm

Another reason why One Piece didn't do well by 4kids is the lack of kids merchandise for it. Meanwhile Naruto had toys, head bands, etc being sold while both shows were airing on Toonami in the mid 2000s. DBZ also had a lot of merchandise when it was airing from 1996-2003 with fruit snacks, backpacks, action figures, coloring books, etc.
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Re: Why did 4Kids One Piece FAIL while Funimation's Dragon Ball succeeded?

Post by Fionordequester » Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:31 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:10 pmFurthermore, 4Kids had to contend with a bunch of angry, high-energy bitchy teenage girls named Julie complaining about edits made to their anime on forums as early as 2003.
Aw, but Julie seemed just fine to me. If they were 4Kid's worst problem, then 4Kids had it easy.
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Re: Why did 4Kids One Piece FAIL while Funimation's Dragon Ball succeeded?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:58 pm

The difference is FUNimation pushed for Dragon Ball to be a hit while 4kids didn't even want One Piece. There's also the fact fansubs weren't as widely accessible when FUNimation first got their hands on Dragon Ball.
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Re: Why did 4Kids One Piece FAIL while Funimation's Dragon Ball succeeded?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:16 pm

Fionordequester wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:31 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:10 pmFurthermore, 4Kids had to contend with a bunch of angry, high-energy bitchy teenage girls named Julie complaining about edits made to their anime on forums as early as 2003.
Aw, but Julie seemed just fine to me. If they were 4Kid's worst problem, then 4Kids had it easy.
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Re: Why did 4Kids One Piece FAIL while Funimation's Dragon Ball succeeded?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:35 pm

I think people dont know this but while One Piece WAS a major contributor to 4kids' downfall, the true killer other than the lawsuit was Chaotic. Many have said that 4kids poured way too much money into that venture and it nearly killed them. Keep in mind that despite the fiasco Toei still was willing to have them handle Kai. That's when Al Kahn realized he better seek the support of the anime fanbase he once shunned. And I still wonder what would have happened had they survived until Super came along.
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: Why did 4Kids One Piece FAIL while Funimation's Dragon Ball succeeded?

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:49 pm

Cure Dragon 255 wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:35 pm Keep in mind that despite the fiasco Toei still was willing to have them handle Kai.long.
They didn’t handle Kai

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Re: Why did 4Kids One Piece FAIL while Funimation's Dragon Ball succeeded?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:53 pm

Ok ok give a subcontract to air it. But still. They were willing to give them the time of day which shows they still had a working relationship.
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: Why did 4Kids One Piece FAIL while Funimation's Dragon Ball succeeded?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:53 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:49 pm
Cure Dragon 255 wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:35 pm Keep in mind that despite the fiasco Toei still was willing to have them handle Kai.long.
They didn’t handle Kai
I believe that they handled the broadcasting and editing of a new edited version. They also had Schemmel come in to record new lines for Vegeta (yup).
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Re: Why did 4Kids One Piece FAIL while Funimation's Dragon Ball succeeded?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:56 pm

Thank you Julie, you are such a sweetheart!
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: Why did 4Kids One Piece FAIL while Funimation's Dragon Ball succeeded?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:58 pm

Cure Dragon 255 wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:56 pm Thank you Julie, you are such a sweetheart!
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Re: Why did 4Kids One Piece FAIL while Funimation's Dragon Ball succeeded?

Post by Super Sonic » Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:34 pm

DragonBallFoodie wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:02 pm I don't know why but this strikes me as ironic, given that One Piece has reached 1000 episodes.
Like guy above said with things in Japan, and can't believe I looked at this again, but here's an example of 4Kids not doing well and Funimation giving excellence.

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Re: Why did 4Kids One Piece FAIL while Funimation's Dragon Ball succeeded?

Post by TheMajinRedComet » Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:12 pm

Considering One Piece's pace, I think it is important to remember that on the Box, CN and Adult Swim Toonami at the time you were only getting 1 episode a week compared to DBZ's 4 to 5. Even today as a fan I can't really ever seeing myself watching OP week to week. Frankly it really not even fair to compare peak Toonami to its once a week version.
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Re: Why did 4Kids One Piece FAIL while Funimation's Dragon Ball succeeded?

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:58 pm

TheMajinRedComet wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:12 pm Considering One Piece's pace, I think it is important to remember that on the Box, CN and Adult Swim Toonami at the time you were only getting 1 episode a week compared to DBZ's 4 to 5. Even today as a fan I can't really ever seeing myself watching OP week to week. Frankly it really not even fair to compare peak Toonami to its once a week version.
Yeah, the pacing is also a thing. Toonami was pooping out five episodes a week, which was much more befitting of the serialized nature of both cartoons. Furthermore, One Piece was competing with far more sources for kids' attention (and still does!)
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Re: Why did 4Kids One Piece FAIL while Funimation's Dragon Ball succeeded?

Post by bkev » Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:11 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:58 pm Yeah, the pacing is also a thing. Toonami was pooping out five episodes a week, which was much more befitting of the serialized nature of both cartoons.
This is a really, really solid point. Speaking as someone *glued* to Toonami during the DB & Z run, I can say with confidence that helped keep my attention significantly. I don't know if I would have gotten nearly as obsessed if the series only aired new episodes once a week--in fact, that's probably part of why I fell off with GT, which if I recall only aired new episodes on Fridays and then went to the Saturday Toonami line-up.
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Re: Why did 4Kids One Piece FAIL while Funimation's Dragon Ball succeeded?

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:42 pm

bkev wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:11 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:58 pm Yeah, the pacing is also a thing. Toonami was pooping out five episodes a week, which was much more befitting of the serialized nature of both cartoons.
This is a really, really solid point. Speaking as someone *glued* to Toonami during the DB & Z run, I can say with confidence that helped keep my attention significantly. I don't know if I would have gotten nearly as obsessed if the series only aired new episodes once a week--in fact, that's probably part of why I fell off with GT, which if I recall only aired new episodes on Fridays and then went to the Saturday Toonami line-up.
Holy shit bkev, I haven't seen a post from you in lile seven years?! O.o

But yeah, I think that continuity really sold the strength of the fun of viewing and following along.
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