DBZ and DBS Goku switch places, how different would DBZ and DBS be?

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Re: DBZ and DBS Goku switch places, how different would DBZ and DBS be?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:54 am

ABED wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:43 am Respect is earned. He's not entitled to it just because he was born into a role.
In what world do you live? So you think that if you were to meet Queen Elizabeth you could address her as if she was your local baker? Lol :lol:

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Re: DBZ and DBS Goku switch places, how different would DBZ and DBS be?

Post by Skar » Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:20 am

SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:17 am Zamasu wouldn't go rogue because Goku wouldn't act like a retard towards him and would try to be more respectful. He indeed seemed more respectful towards the Gods (Supreme Kais) in DBZ, although I might remember wrong.

It is Canonically stated by Bulma that the only reason the whole mess in the FT arc started is because "Goku just wanted to pick a fight". We see with Future Zamasu that if Goku never challenged and humiliated Zamasu, he would never have gotten the will to act against mortals.
To be honest, this is probably the ridiculous justification for mass genocide in fiction. He's a god overseeing an entire universe so there's bound to be someone who might disrespect him. If one encounter is enough to push him over the edge then he was definitely never in his right mind to begin with and I'm pretty sure what's the story is getting across. Imagine a king decided to burn down his entire kingdom because a random civilian said something rude or a CEO decided to demolish his factory because one worker questioned him. These reactions wouldn't be considered normal.

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Re: DBZ and DBS Goku switch places, how different would DBZ and DBS be?

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:05 am

Skar wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:20 am
SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:17 am Zamasu wouldn't go rogue because Goku wouldn't act like a retard towards him and would try to be more respectful. He indeed seemed more respectful towards the Gods (Supreme Kais) in DBZ, although I might remember wrong.

It is Canonically stated by Bulma that the only reason the whole mess in the FT arc started is because "Goku just wanted to pick a fight". We see with Future Zamasu that if Goku never challenged and humiliated Zamasu, he would never have gotten the will to act against mortals.
To be honest, this is probably the ridiculous justification for mass genocide in fiction. He's a god overseeing an entire universe so there's bound to be someone who might disrespect him. If one encounter is enough to push him over the edge then he was definitely never in his right mind to begin with and I'm pretty sure what's the story is getting across. Imagine a king decided to burn down his entire kingdom because a random civilian said something rude or a CEO decided to demolish his factory because one worker questioned him. These reactions wouldn't be considered normal.
This would certainly prove he deserves no respect.

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Re: DBZ and DBS Goku switch places, how different would DBZ and DBS be?

Post by PurestEvil » Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:23 pm

The Kais' job is not to win the respect of mortals, it's to oversee them; striving for respect would contradict their non-interventionist role, they are simply meant to be there.
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Re: DBZ and DBS Goku switch places, how different would DBZ and DBS be?

Post by ABED » Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:57 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:54 am
ABED wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:43 am Respect is earned. He's not entitled to it just because he was born into a role.
In what world do you live? So you think that if you were to meet Queen Elizabeth you could address her as if she was your local baker? Lol :lol:
I would give her respect as human being but her title doesn't entitle her to more respect than someone not born lucky.
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Re: DBZ and DBS Goku switch places, how different would DBZ and DBS be?

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:12 pm

So the takeaway from Zamasu’s overreaction to Goku’s behavior was “This guy is bad news” not “Whatever he ends up doing? Totally justified. What is Goku thinking?”

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Re: DBZ and DBS Goku switch places, how different would DBZ and DBS be?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:25 am

So it seems like people here are mixing things up.

That Goku's stupidity is responsible for Zamasu's fall doesn't make Zamasu justified in his actions (although if you wanted to make that argument, then by all means I won't stop you :think: ). It simply means that Goku is indeed [at least partly] responsible for the entire FT arc, as the one who challenged and humiliated Zamasu and motivated him to seek revenge. As Bulma Canonically stated, when she noted that the whole mess indeed started because Goku "desperately wanted to pick a fight".

The take-away from Zamasu's overreaction to Goku's behaviour is "Don't mess with the wrong people"; I'm sure Goku learned this lesson the hard way when Zamasu came back to kill him and his family :think:

Maybe this wouldn't have happened if Goku acted in a more mature way; but then again, he also threatened to kill Supreme Kai Shin in DBZ. It seems like Goku has always been very disrespectful towards the Kais, in which case there would be virtually no difference between DBZ and DBS Goku...

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Re: DBZ and DBS Goku switch places, how different would DBZ and DBS be?

Post by ABED » Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:41 am

No one is mixing things up. There is no justification to any extent for genocide, especially for something so slight as a good-natured contest.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: DBZ and DBS Goku switch places, how different would DBZ and DBS be?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:09 pm

Zamasu was already looking for reasons to hate mortals. He already had a bias against them when he met Goku. Goku is in no way responsible for Zamasu's actions.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: DBZ and DBS Goku switch places, how different would DBZ and DBS be?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:40 pm

What is being said here is easily disproven by Canon.

Bulma Canonically stated, after Whis (correctly) theorised that Zamasu's nefarious wish had something to do with the fight he had with Goku, that it was indeed Goku's fault for "picking yet another fight".

Later, Bulma's statement is Canonically verified when we learn that Future Zamasu, a version of Zamasu that never met and fought Goku (due to Future Goku having died to the heart virus), lacked the will to act against mortals, and was pushed to action only by Goku Black, a version of Zamasu that DID fight Goku.

This is Canonically reiterated when Future Zamasu explicitly mentions that he "lacked the will to act" and that it was Black who "propelled him into action"; and Black himself noting that, had Goku never been saved from the heart virus (thereby suffering the same fate of Future Goku), then he would never have challenged Zamasu, leading to an envious Zamasu taking his body with the nefarious wish. Goku Black goes as far as to say that Goku didn't just give him his body/power, but an actual "push", mentioning how Goku was the "last motivation" he needed to put his plan in motion.

So indeed everything that happened in the FT arc can mostly be traced back to Goku picking a fight with Zamasu.

The take-away here is only one: Please be careful of who you pick a fight with :wink:

Would """"DBZ Goku"""" (assuming he is a different character) have picked a fight with Zamasu, thus starting the chain of events that would lead to the FT arc? Perhaps, that is the point of this thread :think:

I would agree with OP that the Future timeline wouldn't have been erased if Goku used his brain. But not because he would have remembered to bring the Mafuba seal or to use the Zeno button earlier; but because he wouldn't have motivated Zamasu [Goku Black/Aka Present Zamasu] to act in the first place.

If Goku Black/AKA Present Zamasu had never been challenged by Goku, he would have been just like his Future counterpart. He would dislike mortals, sure (many Gods do by the way), but he would mostly lament the state of mortals and lack the will to act. The necessary push and motivation from Goku would not be there, and thus the plan would not be put in motion.

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Re: DBZ and DBS Goku switch places, how different would DBZ and DBS be?

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:53 pm

“Be careful who you forget to say hi to before first period they might feel offended and shoot up the school lol”

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Re: DBZ and DBS Goku switch places, how different would DBZ and DBS be?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:17 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:53 pm “Be careful who you forget to say hi to before first period they might feel offended and shoot up the school lol”
No be careful of who you recklessly challenge to a fight. Especially when Angel Whis already deduced that there is a connection between this Kai and an extremely dangerous and mysterious man that is laying waste to the Future.

A lesson that Goku did learn in DBZ, when he decided to stay in the Afterlife because he acknowledge that he has a bad habit of "attracting bad guys" to the Earth, with his reckless and careless personality...

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Re: DBZ and DBS Goku switch places, how different would DBZ and DBS be?

Post by ABED » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:19 pm

Would he have picked a good-natured battle? Yes, because he's Goku and he kicks the hornets' nest. Zamasu was always gonna try to kill all mortals. Goku may have been the final straw, but it was happening regardless.

That little kerfuffle was the justification for trying to murder EVERY mortal in the universe?
No be careful of who you recklessly challenge to a fight.
Yes, you might challenge an insecure arrogant douche bag who can't take that someone was better than him at the thing people told him he was special at.
A lesson that Goku did learn in DBZ, when he decided to stay in the Afterlife because he acknowledge that he has a bad habit of "attracting bad guys" to the Earth, with his reckless and careless personality...
He really didn't learn that lesson.
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Re: DBZ and DBS Goku switch places, how different would DBZ and DBS be?

Post by Peach » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:28 pm

- Zamasu would be sealed away by Trunks (as Goku wouldn't forget the seal)

- Goku Black would be killed

- The Tournament of Power wouldn't happen

- Frieza wouldn't be resurrected a second time

- Broly would stay on that planet with his dad

- Buu would be awake without all that training he did - leaving the Galactic Patrol time to intercept Moro and Cranberry in space.

- Granolah wouldn't have a need to make a wish if Frieza isn't alive.

- The Heeters never get intel from 7-3 and throw their evil plan into action



The universe would just be in peace after the Copy Vegeta saga

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Re: DBZ and DBS Goku switch places, how different would DBZ and DBS be?

Post by ABED » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:32 pm

The ToP would still happen as the reason for it wasn't because of Goku. Zeno came up with the idea after seeing the Univers 7 vs. 6 tournament.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: DBZ and DBS Goku switch places, how different would DBZ and DBS be?

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:35 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:17 pm A lesson that Goku did learn in DBZ, when he decided to stay in the Afterlife because he acknowledge that he has a bad habit of "attracting bad guys" to the Earth, with his reckless and careless personality...
When did his reckless and careless personality attract bad guys to earth?


Not Raditz who went to earth simply because Goku was there and had nothing to do with Goku’s personality

Certainly not Vegeta and Nappa who went to earth after overhearing Piccolo talk about the dragon balls

Couldn’t be Freeza and Cold who only came to earth out of revenge because Goku thwarted Freeza

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