Should Dragon Ball Have Stopped After Cell?

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Re: Should Dragon Ball Have Stopped After Cell?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:13 am

JulieYBM wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:00 am No, but the idea that he should still draw a chapter in a single week is still inappropriate. The work schedule for weekly comics is torture.
OK, but does that mean the story naturally should have ended there, or that Shueisha should have given him a longer schedule? I think the OP's question pertains to personal taste over what worked best as an ending, not whether or not the schedule was reasonable.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Should Dragon Ball Have Stopped After Cell?

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:44 am

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:13 am
JulieYBM wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:00 am No, but the idea that he should still draw a chapter in a single week is still inappropriate. The work schedule for weekly comics is torture.
OK, but does that mean the story naturally should have ended there, or that Shueisha should have given him a longer schedule? I think the OP's question pertains to personal taste over what worked best as an ending, not whether or not the schedule was reasonable.
It would not have been tragic of it meant ending an oppressive schedule.

I mean, if we have to pick an ending I say go with the one that keeps someone from traumatizing themselves.
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Re: Should Dragon Ball Have Stopped After Cell?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:49 am

JulieYBM wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:44 am
Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:13 am
JulieYBM wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:00 am No, but the idea that he should still draw a chapter in a single week is still inappropriate. The work schedule for weekly comics is torture.
OK, but does that mean the story naturally should have ended there, or that Shueisha should have given him a longer schedule? I think the OP's question pertains to personal taste over what worked best as an ending, not whether or not the schedule was reasonable.
It would not have been tragic of it meant ending an oppressive schedule.

I mean, if we have to pick an ending I say go with the one that keeps someone from traumatizing themselves.
I understand that Toriyama doesn't exist to serve my interests, but if Dragon Ball had stopped at Chapter 3, this forum wouldn't exist and we wouldn't be having this discussion. And again, grueling schedule or not, Toriyama genuinely had stretches where he loved worked on Dragon Ball. I'm not saying the schedule wasn't difficult or didn't do damage, but it also doesn't cancel out that some of his favorite periods working on it came later.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Should Dragon Ball Have Stopped After Cell?

Post by BootyCheeksJohnson » Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:03 am

90sDBZ wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:37 pm I will say Goku dying at the end of Cell is a fitting way to close the arc, as it started with him destined to die from the virus and cheating death thanks to Trunks. It's actually kind of poetic, like he couldn't escape his fate. Still a bit too depressing to end DB that way.
Except Goku made a conscious choice to stay dead. So he could have escaped fate post heart virus at any time, he just didn't.
We need a Steve Simmons retranslation of the manga.

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Re: Should Dragon Ball Have Stopped After Cell?

Post by ABED » Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:39 am

It's solid storytelling to have Goku die in both timelines but under radically different ways. Still, I don't like that as the ending for DB.
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Re: Should Dragon Ball Have Stopped After Cell?

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:49 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:49 am
JulieYBM wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:44 am
Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:13 am
OK, but does that mean the story naturally should have ended there, or that Shueisha should have given him a longer schedule? I think the OP's question pertains to personal taste over what worked best as an ending, not whether or not the schedule was reasonable.
It would not have been tragic of it meant ending an oppressive schedule.

I mean, if we have to pick an ending I say go with the one that keeps someone from traumatizing themselves.
I understand that Toriyama doesn't exist to serve my interests, but if Dragon Ball had stopped at Chapter 3, this forum wouldn't exist and we wouldn't be having this discussion. And again, grueling schedule or not, Toriyama genuinely had stretches where he loved worked on Dragon Ball. I'm not saying the schedule wasn't difficult or didn't do damage, but it also doesn't cancel out that some of his favorite periods working on it came later.
I'll sacrifice this forum to keep Toriyama from seeing his body destroyed by years of no sleep and the physical deterioration pf having to draw for sixteen hours a day.

I'm not saying he didn't have fun along the way. I'm saying he shouldn't have had to traumatize himself so much that he has a physical reaction to seeing ink of all things.

I'm arguing this because I've beem doing retail for seven years and just now finished a six day week with poor sleep and 40+ hours of work and I feel lile complete dog shit. I can only imagine how much worse it was for any human creating comics.
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Re: Should Dragon Ball Have Stopped After Cell?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:57 pm

Well selfishly, I wouldn't. Of course I don't want the guy ruining his health, but since I'm a Dragon Ball fan and I'll likely never meet him, I'd much rather have these stories and thus this discourse than not have them.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Should Dragon Ball Have Stopped After Cell?

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:05 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:57 pm Well selfishly, I wouldn't. Of course I don't want the guy ruining his health, but since I'm a Dragon Ball fan and I'll likely never meet him, I'd much rather have these stories and thus this discourse than not have them.
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Re: Should Dragon Ball Have Stopped After Cell?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:06 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:05 pm
Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:57 pm Well selfishly, I wouldn't. Of course I don't want the guy ruining his health, but since I'm a Dragon Ball fan and I'll likely never meet him, I'd much rather have these stories and thus this discourse than not have them.
Brb going to the hardware store to buy a Crucifix, nails and spray paint to color them the bi pride flag colors before nailing you to the cross for 420 years and 69 days.


(You get that I'm not judging, right?)
Lol yes 👍
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Should Dragon Ball Have Stopped After Cell?

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:22 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:13 am
JulieYBM wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:00 am No, but the idea that he should still draw a chapter in a single week is still inappropriate. The work schedule for weekly comics is torture.
OK, but does that mean the story naturally should have ended there, or that Shueisha should have given him a longer schedule? I think the OP's question pertains to personal taste over what worked best as an ending, not whether or not the schedule was reasonable.
I think a one-chapter-per-month schedule would've worked better
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Re: Should Dragon Ball Have Stopped After Cell?

Post by ABED » Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:17 pm

The schedule was daunting but for the length of time and what he gained from it, I think anyone would say it was worth it.

Sure, that schedule for retail sucks, but he's a comic book artist doing what he enjoys and ended making WAY more money. There are tradeoffs in life, and lets say it did take its toll, you're telling me you wouldn't put yourself through it for any amount of money?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Should Dragon Ball Have Stopped After Cell?

Post by ZeroIsOurHero » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:31 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:13 am OK, but does that mean the story naturally should have ended there, or that Shueisha should have given him a longer schedule? I think the OP's question pertains to personal taste over what worked best as an ending, not whether or not the schedule was reasonable.
Yeah, I think we need to get back on-topic. Julie, no offense intended, but you have a habit of derailing threads quickly, especially when it gives you the opportunity to complain about capitalism. I get it, the system doesn't really work, but there's a time and a place for that sort of talk.

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Re: Should Dragon Ball Have Stopped After Cell?

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:48 pm

ZeroIsOurHero wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:31 pm
Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:13 am OK, but does that mean the story naturally should have ended there, or that Shueisha should have given him a longer schedule? I think the OP's question pertains to personal taste over what worked best as an ending, not whether or not the schedule was reasonable.
Yeah, I think we need to get back on-topic. Julie, no offense intended, but you have a habit of derailing threads quickly, especially when it gives you the opportunity to complain about capitalism. I get it, the system doesn't really work, but there's a time and a place for that sort of talk.
I'm not doing anything different than anyone else in this thread just because my view on a commercial artwork is informed by a little bit of empathetic objectivity on the subject.

(Disclaimer: this post was originally petty as a knee-jerk reaction, but I have henceforth erased the petty one-liner).
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Re: Should Dragon Ball Have Stopped After Cell?

Post by ABED » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:56 pm

You aren't being objective, not in the slightest. And it's not on topic. You constantly go on tangents railing about capitalism, or what you believe capitalism is.

Cell could've been a good final villain. The idea of the final villain being a creature made from the greatest fighters in the series is interesting. But it's just an idea, and the pieces weren't put in place for it to feel like the right ending. DB isn't at its core an intergenerational story, so passing the torch doesn't feel like the right call.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Should Dragon Ball Have Stopped After Cell?

Post by jjgp1112 » Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:30 am

I've always felt that the Cell ending was a great wrap-up for that era of Dragon Ball and since I've always found the Buu saga kinda superfluous outside of Vegeta's extra development and don't really like Goten & Trunks and the lack of a resolution for Gohan...yeah I think it should've ended there.

For whatever reason I kinda like the idea of the series ending with Goku dying an early death (was he even 30 yet?!) and being happy about it.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
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Re: Should Dragon Ball Have Stopped After Cell?

Post by Grimlock » Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:57 am

Yes. 31 if you place his birth year in AGE 736.
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Re: Should Dragon Ball Have Stopped After Cell?

Post by jjgp1112 » Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:25 am

Grimlock wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:57 am Yes. 31 if you place his birth year in AGE 736.
His birth year is 737
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
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Re: Should Dragon Ball Have Stopped After Cell?

Post by BootyCheeksJohnson » Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:02 am

jjgp1112 wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:30 am I've always felt that the Cell ending was a great wrap-up for that era of Dragon Ball and since I've always found the Buu saga kinda superfluous outside of Vegeta's extra development and don't really like Goten & Trunks and the lack of a resolution for Gohan...yeah I think it should've ended there.

For whatever reason I kinda like the idea of the series ending with Goku dying an early death (was he even 30 yet?!) and being happy about it.
I think the Boo saga's ending works just as well for Goku. I like the idea of the student finally becoming a master and tutoring his own student. Though I do agree that the Boo saga went on for too long and that some of the additions have felt superfluous in the long run. *Goten*
And, come on, we all need a little more Saiyaman in our lives.
We need a Steve Simmons retranslation of the manga.

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Re: Should Dragon Ball Have Stopped After Cell?

Post by ABED » Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:04 am

BootyCheeksJohnson wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:02 am
jjgp1112 wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:30 am I've always felt that the Cell ending was a great wrap-up for that era of Dragon Ball and since I've always found the Buu saga kinda superfluous outside of Vegeta's extra development and don't really like Goten & Trunks and the lack of a resolution for Gohan...yeah I think it should've ended there.

For whatever reason I kinda like the idea of the series ending with Goku dying an early death (was he even 30 yet?!) and being happy about it.
I think the Boo saga's ending works just as well for Goku. I like the idea of the student finally becoming a master and tutoring his own student. Though I do agree that the Boo saga went on for too long and that some of the additions have felt superfluous in the long run. *Goten*
And, come on, we all need a little more Saiyaman in our lives.
Do we? The joke overstayed its welcome.

I've grown to appreciate the Buu arc more over the years as well as the ending. I'm glad it went past the Cell arc and realized making Gohan the main character was a mistake.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Should Dragon Ball Have Stopped After Cell?

Post by BeaBumby » Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:43 am

ABED wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:04 am
BootyCheeksJohnson wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:02 am
jjgp1112 wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:30 am I've always felt that the Cell ending was a great wrap-up for that era of Dragon Ball and since I've always found the Buu saga kinda superfluous outside of Vegeta's extra development and don't really like Goten & Trunks and the lack of a resolution for Gohan...yeah I think it should've ended there.

For whatever reason I kinda like the idea of the series ending with Goku dying an early death (was he even 30 yet?!) and being happy about it.
I think the Boo saga's ending works just as well for Goku. I like the idea of the student finally becoming a master and tutoring his own student. Though I do agree that the Boo saga went on for too long and that some of the additions have felt superfluous in the long run. *Goten*
And, come on, we all need a little more Saiyaman in our lives.
Do we?
yes.
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