What would make a good ending for the series?

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What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:05 am

We all know many people don't like Z's ending, GT's ending seems to generally more we'll regarded, although it's unlike anything Toriyama would ever write.

With this in mind, what does everyone think would be the ideal ending for the series? Do you think it should it feel Toriyama-esque or not?

I've considered perhaps something with Goku Jr could work, although not what was seen in the final episode of GT or the TV special. I don't think either installments use of Goku Jr brings the story full circle, because as much as I love the Goku and Vegeta dynamic and know what Atsushi Maekawa was trying to do with a fight between their descendants the rivalry wasn't there for the first 183 episodes, and in the GT special he lived with Pan and returning to the place his ancestor Goku grew up is more of a pilgrimage.

I think something like Goku Jr walking into the house Goku grew up in on Mount Paozu, bowing down and praying at the four star Dragon Ball and turning his face, possibly putting on a determined look to non-verbally say he is ready to face the world would be neat. Something would need to lead up to it though, so possibly a montage of all the training Goku had under his various mentors and major battles similar to the GT ending, but a more complete one with fights the GT montage omitted like Freeza. This could all wrap up an episode where the final villain in Super (yes the manga is still ongoing and I am confident at some point the anime will return too) is defeated, everything returns to normal, and we see Goku having a big meal cooked by Chi-Chi at home before he tells her he's ready to go training again. Bulma could be at the house for a visit and say "He never changes, does he?" after Chi-Chi faints from the shock of Goku leaving again.

Anyone have any ideas of their own?
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Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by Grimlock » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:18 am

The series already have a good ending: Dragon Ball Online.

Stating what the characters ended up doing is a classic but effective ending. It's not definitive, so you can continue later on, if you want. But it can be a definitive, if you don't intend to continue ever again. Don't know if it's one Toriyama would write, but I don't think I'd care. As long as it's good.

Obviously, it would be great if we could actually see it, so hopefully, one day, they have the balls to adapt all epilogues the game establishes for each character (and they would be free to do whatever they want with Bra and Uub, as both of these characters didn't get their own ending, as far as the game went and we know).
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Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:48 am

I don't think they could ever come up with better ending than GT. Maybe something with better execution, but not in concept alone. You can't beat something series is named after, and focused on, becoming main villain followed by main character paying his debts, probably giving up his life for it, and merging with them.

Also i don't think there was anything more we needed about Goku Jr. He already got a TV special which was cool. Both that special and last scene of GT were meant to tell us Earth survived without dragon balls and that Goku's legacy still lives on. We saw Goku's statue standing on par with Satan's statue, being widely recognized as a hero and a champion. Although i don't think adding Vegeta Jr. was necessary, he looked a bit silly. I feel introducing that Bulma-like woman would be enough.
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Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:55 am

The franchise has had 4 solid endings. I could not care less about a “proper ending”

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Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by Saiya6Cit » Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:25 pm

Dragon ball is like life itself so it shall never end. There will always be descendents of Goku, and the other warrior, so why ending it?

Ok, if that answer was too cringy....

If there is something I have learned from fandoms (and I used to be in the Star wars and disney one for many years) is that the fans will never be satisfied. but Hey! that's what we have fanart, fan manga and fanfictions for!

Perhaps dragon ball should have ended after the freezer saga and be a short anime, that would have been an ending. Freezer dies, Goku brings balance to the force yada yada yada.
Grimlock wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:18 am The series already have a good ending: Dragon Ball Online.
oh my, what do you mean by that?

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Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by Grimlock » Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:32 pm

I mean precisely what's stated in that post. Dragon Ball Online provides a good (the best, I'd say) ending for the series.
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Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:25 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:05 am We all know many people don't like Z's ending, GT's ending seems to generally more we'll regarded, although it's unlike anything Toriyama would ever write.

With this in mind, what does everyone think would be the ideal ending for the series? Do you think it should it feel Toriyama-esque or not?
I could be wrong, but my impression is that people have come around more to Z's ending in recent years. I know I have; I appreciate it's simplicity with the advent of things like Super.

GT's ending is phenomenal, though very un-Toriyama as you said. If there ever is another attempt at a franchise ending, I feel like it would have to be more GT-esque since Toriyama's endings are more open-ended. At the same time, I like the more whimsical nature of Toriyama's endings.

Although I love the Goku Jr. special, I'm not sure I need for it to skip forward so many years. I'd be interested in something involving maybe a young adult Pan and her offspring, just to bring it all full circle, similar to how we see Goku with Gohan at the beginning of Z. Maybe just end with some reassurrance that the kind, adventurous spirit of Son Goku will continue in his descendants, without making it so blatant as naming one of them Goku Jr.
Last edited by Demon Prince Piccolo on Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:43 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:25 pm
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:05 am We all know many people don't like Z's ending, GT's ending seems to generally more we'll regarded, although it's unlike anything Toriyama would ever write.

With this in mind, what does everyone think would be the ideal ending for the series? Do you think it should it feel Toriyama-esque or not?
I could be wrong, but my impression is that people have come around more to Z's ending in recent years. I know I have; I appreciate it's simplicity with the advent of things like Super.

GT's ending is phenomenal, though very un-Toriyama as you said. If there ever is another attempt at a franchise ending, I feel like it would have to be more GT-esque since Toriyama's endings are more open-ended. At the same time, I like the more whimsical nature of Toriyama's endings.

Although I love the Goku Jr. special, I'm not sure I need for it to skip forward so many years. I'd be interested in something involving maybe a young adult Pan and her offspring, just to bring it all full circle, similar to how we see Goku with Gohan at the beginning of Z.
I agree, I feel that having GT back to back with Z diminished the scope of the manga ending, it felt more like a "see ya later" than a proper goodbye, because well Goku came back right after flying away with Uub.
But now that a line has been officially drawn between the manga and the anime continuation in the form of GT, the manga ending is getting more relevance.

I, myself, never saw the Z ending as the ending of the show because GT continued the franchise and there were so many adventures Goku went on after that, so many memorable moments (maybe not that many) that Goku and Uub's ending felt more like a vacation. It's an open ending, so it's not really GT's fault.

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Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:31 pm

Gokuu is tried and arrested for his crimes and goes to jail.
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Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by PurestEvil » Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:37 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:31 pm Gokuu is tried and arrested for his crimes and goes to jail.
That is totally unrealistic and rubbish.
He would be arrested before standing trial /j
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Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:55 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:37 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:31 pm Gokuu is tried and arrested for his crimes and goes to jail.
That is totally unrealistic and rubbish.
He would be arrested before standing trial /j
I, like, forgot how the criminal justice system thingy works. lolz
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Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:57 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:25 pm
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:05 am We all know many people don't like Z's ending, GT's ending seems to generally more we'll regarded, although it's unlike anything Toriyama would ever write.

With this in mind, what does everyone think would be the ideal ending for the series? Do you think it should it feel Toriyama-esque or not?
I could be wrong, but my impression is that people have come around more to Z's ending in recent years.
Tbh it seems more the interpretation of Goku as an all loving messiah archtype hero colored people’s perception of the ending. When people criticize Z’s ending it’s always somewhere along the line of “Goku just up and leaves everyone” and yeah if you see Goku as Space Kung Fu Christ Superman it’s a terrible ending. But going by Toriyama’s intent for Goku to be a martial artist who always wants to better himself and become stronger by fighting stronger opponents its a very fitting ending.

GT’s ending is of course perfect for people who favor the more altruistic interpretation of Goku that Toei themselves built up.

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Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:20 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:57 pm Tbh it seems more the interpretation of Goku as an all loving messiah archtype hero colored people’s perception of the ending. When people criticize Z’s ending it’s always somewhere along the line of “Goku just up and leaves everyone” and yeah if you see Goku as Space Kung Fu Christ Superman it’s a terrible ending. But going by Toriyama’s intent for Goku to be a martial artist who always wants to better himself and become stronger by fighting stronger opponents its a very fitting ending.

GT’s ending is of course perfect for people who favor the more altruistic interpretation of Goku that Toei themselves built up.
I think that's exactly it. My understanding of Goku's character years ago is not the same as it is now, so I definitely think it was "Why would someone as heroic as Goku just fly off and leave everyone like that?" Now I understand that this is in line with his actual character. I do think GT's approach works for a wizened, more mature version of this Goku, but in the end the Z ending is true to the spirit of the character Toriyama created.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by Desassina » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:14 pm

Dragon Ball is just like the natural numbers: you can always define another through induction. For it to end and continue at the same time, Dragon Ball would have to behave like a field closed under multiplication, like the rational numbers between 0 and 1, whose depth only ends when you stop looking.

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Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by ABED » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:22 pm

Desassina wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:14 pm Dragon Ball is just like the natural numbers: you can always define another through induction. For it to end and continue at the same time, Dragon Ball would have to behave like a field closed under multiplication, like the rational numbers between 0 and 1, whose depth only ends when you stop looking.
Are you saying it will only end when people stop watching?

Anyway, the best ending for DB would be something like Z's. The world continues, Goku will continue to push himself to new heights, but we have to say goodbye.
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Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by WittyUsername » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:32 pm

The manga’s ending is fine.

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Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by Desassina » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:35 pm

ABED wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:22 pm
Desassina wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:14 pm Dragon Ball is just like the natural numbers: you can always define another through induction. For it to end and continue at the same time, Dragon Ball would have to behave like a field closed under multiplication, like the rational numbers between 0 and 1, whose depth only ends when you stop looking.
Are you saying it will only end when people stop watching?
Ha, ha, no. What I'm saying is that Dragon Ball can only continue for as long as there are resources, just like counting or computing with numbers requires them, but since natural numbers can only get big very fast, akin to how Goku and the others aged to adulthood, the series needs to squeeze the most out of a shorter time span, because that's what subdividing numbers between 0 and 1 feels like.

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Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by ABED » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:36 pm

Desassina wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:35 pm
ABED wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:22 pm
Desassina wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:14 pm Dragon Ball is just like the natural numbers: you can always define another through induction. For it to end and continue at the same time, Dragon Ball would have to behave like a field closed under multiplication, like the rational numbers between 0 and 1, whose depth only ends when you stop looking.
Are you saying it will only end when people stop watching?
Ha, ha, no. What I'm saying is that Dragon Ball can only continue for as long as there are resources, just like counting or computing with numbers requires them, but since natural numbers can only get big very fast, akin to how Goku and the others aged to adulthood, the series needs to squeeze the most out of a shorter time span, because that's what subdividing numbers between 0 and 1 feels like.
Yeah, funny me for not understanding what any of that meant.
What does any of that mean?
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Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by Desassina » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:38 pm

ABED wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:36 pm
Desassina wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:35 pm
ABED wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:22 pm Are you saying it will only end when people stop watching?
Ha, ha, no. What I'm saying is that Dragon Ball can only continue for as long as there are resources, just like counting or computing with numbers requires them, but since natural numbers can only get big very fast, akin to how Goku and the others aged to adulthood, the series needs to squeeze the most out of a shorter time span, because that's what subdividing numbers between 0 and 1 feels like.
What does any of that mean?
It's meant for the mathematics inclined people. I don't target everyone with this analogy. I was trying to say that, for as long as there is Toriyama, there'll be Goku and his story won't end. Toriyama is a resource and his story is now getting subdivided between Majin Boo and Oob.

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Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by ABED » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:40 pm

Desassina wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:38 pm
ABED wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:36 pm
Desassina wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:35 pm

Ha, ha, no. What I'm saying is that Dragon Ball can only continue for as long as there are resources, just like counting or computing with numbers requires them, but since natural numbers can only get big very fast, akin to how Goku and the others aged to adulthood, the series needs to squeeze the most out of a shorter time span, because that's what subdividing numbers between 0 and 1 feels like.
What does any of that mean?
It's meant for the mathematics inclined people. I don't target everyone with this analogy. I was trying to say that, for as long as there is Toriyama, there'll be Goku and his story won't end.
And where do you get any indication that there is anyone here that mathmatecially inclined that they'd get anything that you said?
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