What would make a good ending for the series?

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
Desassina
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1534
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:04 am

Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by Desassina » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:42 pm

Alright. You've crossed the line. And what I'll do is simply... Nothing. Perhaps people can expose their topics in a manner that filters out or gathers those with the same interests? I don't know. Just stop replying to me.

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by ABED » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:46 pm

That's crossing a line? M'kay

Anyway, I don't know if there's any ending that wouldn't tread the same ground as any of DB's previous endings.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
Yuji
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1097
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:20 pm

Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by Yuji » Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:29 pm

The Boo arc is about the most perfect ending you could conceivably think of.

People like to harp on about the timeskip and Goku leaving with Oob, but forget that two chapters prior we had a brilliant arc where everyone's characters came full circle and the entire Earth pitched in to defeat the villain.

WittyUsername
I Live Here
Posts: 4163
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:09 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by WittyUsername » Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:14 pm

Actually, on the subject of the manga’s ending, I will add that while I think it’s a fitting ending for the original manga, it’s kind of retroactively been cheapened, thanks to Super.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6191
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:18 pm

WittyUsername wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:14 pm Actually, on the subject of the manga’s ending, I will add that while I think it’s a fitting ending for the original manga, it’s kind of retroactively been cheapened, thanks to Super.
That’s true. It’s hard to see why Goku gives a damn about Oob after sparring with Beerus, Jiren, Whis, and Hit. It made sense when Oob was the reincarnation of the most powerful and naturally gifted opponent he ever faced but Super makes it hard to buy he would still care.


Thank God I don’t consider Super when watching Dragon Ball Z

User avatar
Demon Prince Piccolo
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 911
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:34 pm

Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:44 pm

Since Toriyama didn't write the original Dragon Ball manga with Super in mind, it's pretty easy to ignore when reading the original manga/watching the original anime. I consider Super its own beast when compared to the original series, no matter how much the manga tries to retroactively make it fit (like giving Oob god ki).
Yuji wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:29 pm People like to harp on about the timeskip and Goku leaving with Oob, but forget that two chapters prior we had a brilliant arc where everyone's characters came full circle and the entire Earth pitched in to defeat the villain.
People had an issue with the timeskip? Timeskips have always been a part of Dragon Ball; that's not a complaint I can recall seeing.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

WittyUsername
I Live Here
Posts: 4163
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:09 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by WittyUsername » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:32 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:18 pm
WittyUsername wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:14 pm Actually, on the subject of the manga’s ending, I will add that while I think it’s a fitting ending for the original manga, it’s kind of retroactively been cheapened, thanks to Super.
That’s true. It’s hard to see why Goku gives a damn about Oob after sparring with Beerus, Jiren, Whis, and Hit. It made sense when Oob was the reincarnation of the most powerful and naturally gifted opponent he ever faced but Super makes it hard to buy he would still care.


Thank God I don’t consider Super when watching Dragon Ball Z
To me, something that seems especially egregious is that the teaser for the upcoming movie shows Goku sparring with Broly on Whis’ planet, and the movie supposedly takes place shortly before the manga’s ending.

User avatar
dva_raza
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 410
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2021 6:46 pm

Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by dva_raza » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:29 am

ABED wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:40 pm
Desassina wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:38 pm
ABED wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:36 pm
What does any of that mean?
It's meant for the mathematics inclined people. I don't target everyone with this analogy. I was trying to say that, for as long as there is Toriyama, there'll be Goku and his story won't end.
And where do you get any indication that there is anyone here that mathmatecially inclined that they'd get anything that you said?

- And where do you get any indication that there is anyone here that mathmatecially inclined that they'd get anything that you said?
- Alright. You've crossed the line. And what I'll do is simply... Nothing


What an absurd exchange. Made me laugh out loud

User avatar
Demon Prince Piccolo
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 911
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:34 pm

Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:35 am

WittyUsername wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:32 am To me, something that seems especially egregious is that the teaser for the upcoming movie shows Goku sparring with Broly on Whis’ planet, and the movie supposedly takes place shortly before the manga’s ending.
I remember after the Battle of Gods movie (which I loved and thought was a great spark for the franchise, one that fits neatly within the 10-year timeskip) and maybe Resurrection F being excited when Super was announced (honestly can't remember what year this was). I actually thought the show would take place past End of Z. I didn't see them cramming so much within the time skip because it would cheapen it, especially if they introduced characters stronger than Beerus or forms stronger than Super Saiyan God. Hindsight is 20/20, I guess.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

User avatar
dva_raza
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 410
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2021 6:46 pm

Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by dva_raza » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:44 am

The ideal “ending” for me is the current one, the latest Super episode. It was just so exciting. And that is in general what DB is to me, if I had to pick just one adjective. But what’s even more exciting is the fact that there is no ending yet, and there shouldn't be.

But anyway, I thought the whole episode was perfect, I rarely feel so satisfyed with a whole finale episode of a series as I was with this episode.
It didn't try too hard to do anything, it felt natural to what the series is. The fighting was dope, the resolution was awsome, I loved how they utilized all the characters (actually one thing I loved about that latest arc is the importance they gave to the androids) and the very ending with the classic Goku and Vegeta shot is so great and epic and reaffirming. Like Vegeta finally is sparring with him instead of Goku leaving him like in the other endings. It felt accurate to the tone of the series and warm. The opposite of how the ending of Z and GT felt.
Z was just fine to me, just kinda sad the way Goku leaves Pan and Milk. Maybe his sons don’t need him anymore, but Pan and Milk do. He didn’t even say anything to Milk, he was like “bye!” lol
GT's ending is the most depressing thing I’ve seen of DB. I saw it for the first a few months ago and my energy dropped and I felt total emptyness. I had no idea it ended like that. And it felt very off, kinda cruel even. The main character who you love basically stops to exist, he just leaves and from one minute to another nobody ever speaks to him again.
I'm not saying it's bad but it's just way too obscure and sudden. I was so glad to recall it's not canon.
Also he stops to say goodbye to Krillin and Piccolo but didn’t say anything to his family. They were standing right there. And he didn’t get to eat. They probably all went home and ate after the whole thing, but Goku didn’t. He left into the cold and empty new reality forever. Again, very cruel.
It all just basically felt like the concept of Goku accepting responsability for others (which he tends to do) taken to an extreme.

User avatar
Demon Prince Piccolo
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 911
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:34 pm

Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:54 am

dva_raza wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:44 am GT's ending is the most depressing thing I’ve seen of DB. I saw it for the first a few months ago and my energy dropped and I felt total emptyness. I had no idea it ended like that. And it felt very off, kinda cruel even. The main character who you love basically stops to exist, he just leaves and from one minute to another nobody ever speaks to him again.
I'm not saying it's bad but it's just way too obscure and sudden. I was so glad to recall it's not canon.
Also he stops to say goodbye to Krillin and Piccolo but didn’t say anything to his family. They were standing right there. And he didn’t get to eat. They probably all went home and ate after the whole thing, but Goku didn’t. He left into the cold and empty new reality forever. Again, very cruel.
It all just basically felt like the concept of Goku accepting responsability for others (which he tends to do) taken to an extreme.
I've become a big fan of GT's ending in more recent years even just for the attempt of finality, but I can't fault you for feeling this way. It's depressing as hell and honestly, one of the positives of Super going on for me is that we have something that is more light and fluffy to enjoy. The only thing that lessened the sadness of it a bit for me was A Hero's Legacy.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by ABED » Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:42 am

You found GT's ending depressing? Interesting.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
Demon Prince Piccolo
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 911
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:34 pm

Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:45 am

ABED wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:42 am You found GT's ending depressing? Interesting.
Not entirely, but on a certain level yes. Well...not so much literally depressing; it's almost like a reminder that all journeys come to an end. For Dragon Ball, it has a stark finality that is striking. EDIT: I think you've described it as "melancholy" before, and that's probably more accurate to what I feel. A mixture of happy and sad, although the sadness is quite pronounced for me. It's a good "sad" that's mired in Goku leaving his loved ones behind, but still.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

User avatar
Koitsukai
I Live Here
Posts: 4265
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:02 pm

Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:46 am

Yeah, I can see the sadness to it, it's goodbye forever, no wonder so many people still shed a tear.

User avatar
Cure Dragon 255
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5086
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 5:23 pm

Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:42 am

JulieYBM wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:55 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:37 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:31 pm Gokuu is tried and arrested for his crimes and goes to jail.
That is totally unrealistic and rubbish.
He would be arrested before standing trial /j
I, like, forgot how the criminal justice system thingy works. lolz
OH NOES! Our dear Julie is a VALLEY GIRL!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkpR-CY1u-k
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 16491
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:48 am

The ending should've been more bisexual.

Also, I just don't think Gohan's story was sold well enough. Maybe if it had the same dedication as the Saiyan arc filler?
Cure Dragon 255 wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:42 am
JulieYBM wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:55 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:37 pm

That is totally unrealistic and rubbish.
He would be arrested before standing trial /j
I, like, forgot how the criminal justice system thingy works. lolz
OH NOES! Our dear Julie is a VALLEY GIRL!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkpR-CY1u-k
Well, that might explain all those fantasies I've had since my first puberty in the mid-2000s...
She/Her💕 💜 💙
progesterone princess, estradiol empress
Lucifer's bimbo daughter

User avatar
Cursed Lemon
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1377
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: Location, Location
Contact:

Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by Cursed Lemon » Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:25 am

It's difficult for DB to have an ending because it has so little theming to it. Usually an episode, a movie, a season, a series, etc. can wrap itself up neatly on An Aesop because the story has leaned on a basic theme, e.g. fatalism/determinism or alternatively the idea that fate is what we make of it. DB doesn't really have that; it's a show about punching people in the face. Ergo, the series can't have a truly satisfying ending because no noteworthy motifs are being fulfilled and tied up in a pretty bow by the end of it all. GT had an emotional ending but it hung on the inference that Dragon Ball as a whole was ending, or at least that an old era of some kind was passing away, which is basically just nostalgia bait.
Special Beam Cannon!

(゚Д゚)σ 弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌⊃

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6191
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:45 am

Cursed Lemon wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:25 am . Ergo, the series can't have a truly satisfying ending because no noteworthy motifs are being fulfilled and tied up in a pretty bow by the end of it all.
The theme is self improvement and always climbing new mountains to better one self. So yes it has 2 maybe 3 “endings” that satisfy this.

This is why the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai would have been a fantastic finale. Goku leaves his home to become stronger. Of course that’s a very broad goal so winning the Tenkaichi Tournament gives him a tangible goal to achieve. He wins the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai and is officially declared the strongest person in the world. Piccolo is kept around to give Goku someone to keep him on his toes so he doesn’t slack off, the very thing Roshi feared would happen if he had won previous tournaments.


And the actual ending of the manga accomplishes this in a different way. Goku meets the reincarnation of the greatest opponent he ever face. He’s going to take Oob to train him and pass on everything he learned from Grandpa Gohan, Kame Sennin, Karin, Kami, and Kaio and then get the fight of his life.


And finally Battle of Gods while not really an ending, taking place before the manga’s epilogue and all, provides an alternative thematic ending for people who don’t like the manga’s ending. Goku becomes more powerful than he could ever dream of and still can’t match Beerus and then learns Whis is ever stronger. “No matter how strong you get there will always be so someone stronger”

And yeah GT’s ending isn’t as strong thematically but it gives a sentimental “The Hero that touched and changed lives for the better says goodbye to everyone”’ that pulls on the heart strings. And like I said I can understand why fans who prefer Goku as a paragon of justice would prefer this ending

WittyUsername
I Live Here
Posts: 4163
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:09 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by WittyUsername » Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:27 am

I don’t really see the ending of GT as emphasizing Goku as a “paragon of justice,” at least not in the Japanese version. I see it as more of an emotional goodbye that essentially thanks Goku for all the fun and exciting times that were had while he was around. It’s not a particularly Toriyama-esque ending, but it does have a more definitive sense of finality to it than any of the other possible endings, and the emphasis on the titular Dragon Balls themselves does come across as a fitting bookend.

MyVisionity
Banned
Posts: 1834
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:51 pm
Location: US

Re: What would make a good ending for the series?

Post by MyVisionity » Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:46 am

There are different types of stories. A series doesn't necessarily have to have a central theme or motif to have a satisfying ending. It can be like Z and make the final arc as climactic as possible. The Boo saga raises the stakes to their absolute limits to achieve this, and sends the audience the message that this is truly the end. It didn't need to fulfill any series-long theme or question. Same with GT, just raise the stakes in the final arc to make it climactic. GT also introduced new themes like consequences for the Dragon Balls and Goku as a legendary figure transcending time etc. You can introduce themes and motifs at the end instead of the beginning to make it satisfying.

WittyUsername wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:27 am I don’t really see the ending of GT as emphasizing Goku as a “paragon of justice,” at least not in the Japanese version.
GT was definitely trying to turn Goku into a symbol of justice. From the very first episode, the narrator speaks of Goku himself having become a legend, and we see in the future that the public has embraced this legend. They build statues of Goku.

Locked