When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

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When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:02 am

The gif below sums up the only time I can think of during the series where I've done this (well, maybe also during his fight with Freeza). Even with my favorite villains, I almost always subconsciously to pull for the protagonists. And yes, I'm aware Vegeta wasn't a "good guy" here, and that Android 18 wasn't a pure "villain," but at this point in the story she was an obstacle to him and the others. Not only was Android 18 cool down to her look and presence, but Vegeta's attitude at this point was obnoxious to no end and probably where I liked his character the least. Seeing him getting knocked around was never more satisfying than here. The beating was humbling for him, even though he still made boneheaded decisions later in this arc. Seeing the Saiyan Prince be brought down to Earth like this as a Super Saiyan by a cyborg (especially after he made a joke out of 19 three years prior) was immensely satisfying. And no, I don't hate Vegeta; I actually think this was a great moment for his character development in the story.

Image
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:44 am

Perfect Cell vs Vegeta / Majin Buu vs Majin Vegeta

In both cases Vegeta was responsible for entire mess.
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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by BootyCheeksJohnson » Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:46 am

Canon Broly. I think most of us did to an extent. Obviously he had to be stopped because he was dangerous but I felt really bad when Gogeta attempted to kill him, especially when he started coming down from his rage.
It felt like putting down an animal.
We need a Steve Simmons retranslation of the manga.

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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by nhienphan2808 » Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:44 am

Vegeta was never "a" good guy or "the" good guy and he showed he could be more dangerous than any of the main villain every arc, even now in the Broly movie, and i have always rooted for him, so yes.
ShadowWolf87 wrote:Freeza beat Goku, beat Vegeta, and destroyed the Earth. Even if no one else knows it, who does? Goku.
Who gets told it's his fault for being so careless? Goku.
Who has to live with that similar to how he wanted to make Freeza live with the fact he'd been beaten by what he considered trash, and have to live with that shame? Goku.
Freeza got the perfect revenge.

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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by PurestEvil » Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:53 am

Jackie Chun, Vegeta in the Namek arc and Perfect Cell fighting Vegeta.
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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:07 am

I was rooting for Frieza when he put Vegeta in his place. The prick needed to be taught a lesson in humility and Frieza certainly didn't disappoint as a teacher...

I was also rooting for Cell when he put Vegeta in his place and also I was kind of rooting for Cell to become Perfect because this creature had defied Time and had waited underground for years to achieve his goal, so I kind of wanted to see him succeed. You know, as a kind of reward for his careful planning.

I think Cell is an underrated villain and is the best villain from DBZ (not from the entire franchise though). While both Frieza and Buu had overwhelming power and many minions to serve them, Cell started from nothing in a way. He was literally a bug hiding underground with no minions, no anything, and he had to outsmart everyone and everything. It was a very uphill battle for him. The Z fighters were against him, the Androids were obviously out of his reach and hostile, he had no minions/agents (like the Frieza Force/Babidi's forces), etc. etc. etc. and he couldn't rely on overwhelming power like Frieza and Buu because the power was the end goal in itself, so he needed to manipulate Vegeta to get his way or he would've been atomized. So I found it satisfying when he finally reached the Perfect form, all his careful planning paid off.

And obviously I was actually rooting for Zamasu to win (and he did technically), because he kind of deserved to win after all the planning and manipulations he pulled off (like Cell, but he did even MORE planning and manipulation). He literally became Immortal, the one wish that had always eluded the other villains. He deserved to win after all his efforts.

Simultaneously, Trunks deserved to be punished for his constant abuse of Time. This is a point that is made clear and reiterated several times in the series. Time travel is a grave crime against the natural laws of the Cosmos, so Trunks was a criminal. He had to suffer consequences for his constant time travels that fucked up the Time-space Continuum.

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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by 90sDBZ » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:49 am

PurestEvil wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:53 am Jackie Chun, Vegeta in the Namek arc and Perfect Cell fighting Vegeta.
I wouldn't call Jackie Chun a villain or antagonist. If anything he was the true hero of that arc as his motivation was for the long term good of his students.

I rooted for Vegeta on Namek for all of it except when he wiped out that village. Seeing him outsmart Frieza was fun.

If you count 17 and 18 as villains then I rooted for them against Cell.

And I rooted for Dabura against Buu.

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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by PurestEvil » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:19 am

90sDBZ wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:49 am
PurestEvil wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:53 am Jackie Chun, Vegeta in the Namek arc and Perfect Cell fighting Vegeta.
I wouldn't call Jackie Chun a villain or antagonist. If anything he was the true hero of that arc as his motivation was for the long term good of his students.
He was the antagonist because he fought Goku, the protagonist. Antagonists aren't always evil/villainous.
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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:49 am

I rooted for Nappa (yeah, first episode I watched, I wanted him to beat everybody up), rooted for Freeza vs Vegeta, Geets needed to know his place.
Rooted for Perfect Cell vs Vegeta, I was feeling kinda bad for Cell, and for Jiren in the special.

Oh, and for a moment for Broly vs Gogeta, because the beatdown was so raw that poor Broly needed some non-drawn people in his corner.

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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:20 am

What's impressive about Toriyama's writing is that even during battles with some of the absolute vilest villains, he can still conjure some small sympathy for them. It's mainly down to the push-pull dynamic of battles in the later half of the manga, where the heroes and villains take turn dominating each other. The heroes are hopeless underdogs against Freeza for 90% of the Namek arc, and aside from getting a bit of catharsis out of seeing him humiliate Vegeta, we have basically zero sympathy for Freeza. That all changes when Goku goes Super Saiyan, and it's just a slow, painful decline for Freeza after that point. For all the horrible crimes he's committed, seeing him pathetically grovel and refusing to stay down makes it hard not to root for him just a little, even if it's hoping that he'll just surrender. So when Goku eventually finishes him (or so he thinks), rather than a triumphant moment, it's like shooting a sick puppy.

I love it when Toriyama properly leans into sympathetic antagonists and really makes you question who you're rooting for. Jackie Chun was the first and arguably the best IMO. We've been getting more opponents like this ever since the original manga ended, since Toriyama now has more time to plan stories ahead.

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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by Desassina » Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:55 am

BootyCheeksJohnson wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:46 am Canon Broly. I think most of us did to an extent. Obviously he had to be stopped because he was dangerous but I felt really bad when Gogeta attempted to kill him, especially when he started coming down from his rage.
It felt like putting down an animal.
This. Broly had a moment like Wolverine in the X-Men: Apocalypse movie.

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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:39 pm

Interesting choices. As idiotic as Vegeta is during his fight with Cell, I think I still rooted for him there because Perfect Cell's smugness annoys me as much as Vegeta's arrogance (I guess it's supposed to). Maybe it's more accurate that I rooted for neither of them :lol: . And while Vegeta made stupid decisions when he became Majin, I found it easy to root for him against Boo since he was approaching that battle from a different mindset, to right his wrongs. However, Fat Boo beating the hell out of him was still deserved and satisfying.

I think I felt sympathetic for DBS Broly, but I was rooting for Goku/Vegeta and later Gogeta Blue to wreck the hell out of him.
90sDBZ wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:49 am If you count 17 and 18 as villains then I rooted for them against Cell.

And I rooted for Dabura against Buu.
I share these, but they're a bit different to what I meant. I meant moreso "villains" or "antagonists" in relation to the character they're fighting. C17 and 18 weren't antagonists when it came to fighting Cell, and Dabura wasn't the antagonist during his fight with Boo.
Last edited by Demon Prince Piccolo on Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:46 pm

nhienphan2808 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:44 am Vegeta was never "a" good guy or "the" good guy and he showed he could be more dangerous than any of the main villain every arc, even now in the Broly movie, and i have always rooted for him, so yes.
He wasn't a good guy, but other than both his fights against Goku, he's the protagonist for the purposes of his major fights. Or, I guess you could consider him and the character he's fighting both antagonists. In the newest Broly movie, he's certainly a protagonist, though...unless we consider Broly the protagonist of his movie, which I suppose you could, honestly.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:43 pm

I'm queer, of course I've rooted for Gokuu Black. It's how I #Cope.

(Also, I just have more fun watching deliciously queer characters).
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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by Xeogran » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:10 pm

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Moro yet. He went trying his damndest to go from an old powerless goat to a strong fighter and he did succeed, yet still couldn't get any relevant kill except like his own henchmen. Toyotaro should've let him kill at least Gohan in a blaze of glory or something. The DBs exist everyone would be wished back at the end anyway.

As for me personally? Frieza 1-3 forms, Semi-Perfect Cell, Hit, Goku Black, Team Universe 3 (at least they went far), Moro, Gas, Elec and Super 17. I'm usually satisfied when villains can get some kills before going out :twisted:

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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:45 pm

Oh, I also rooted for Super 17 for a while, when he was fighting the Z-gang, or should I say the GT gang? anyway, I only wanted him to beat everybody, to showcase what he could do. Also I wanted him to beat SS Goku, so SS4 could appear.

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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:38 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:49 am I rooted for Nappa (yeah, first episode I watched, I wanted him to beat everybody up)
Actually, you know what...I do recall kind of rooting for Nappa against the Earthlings the first time I watched those episodes on Toonami. Dude was a monster, a complete force of nature, and his Ocean VA made him sound that much more evil and menacing. It's only because (having watched all of Dragon Ball in the years since) I'm much more invested in Yamcha, Tenshinhan, and even Chaozu that I find myself rooting for them upon consecutive re-watches.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by Yuji » Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:31 pm

Watching the 23rd Budokai in the anime makes you root for Piccolo to an extent after seeing his backstory as an orphan. You can tell he's also not a bad guy entirely since he saves a child from death in one scene even as an adult. Especially if you already know how vulnerable he gets with Gohan later on in the series when he opens up about his loneliness.

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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:41 pm

Not once.

None of the villains or antagonists in Dragon Ball are written compellingly enough -- with regards to having ambiguous mortality or a cause that can be related to on a human level -- to have ANY kind of sympathy for them or want to see them succeed in any fashion. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Catharsis is something Toriyama does well with the original manga, by writing his villains as Card-Carryingly Evil as possible to have Goku eventually defeating them all the more satisfying.

Dragon Ball in general is good at writing villains/antagonists, but it's NEVER been THAT good.
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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by ABED » Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:43 pm

Not ever. If the villain is legitimately more righteous than the hero, something is wrong.
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