When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

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Demon Prince Piccolo
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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:18 pm

Lord Beerus wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:41 pm Not once.

None of the villains or antagonists in Dragon Ball are written compellingly enough -- with regards to having ambiguous mortality or a cause that can be related to on a human level -- to have ANY kind of sympathy for them or want to see them succeed in any fashion. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Catharsis is something Toriyama does well with the original manga, by writing his villains as Card-Carryingly Evil as possible to have Goku eventually defeating them all the more satisfying.

Dragon Ball in general is good at writing villains/antagonists, but it's NEVER been THAT good.
I don't disagree with this. Sometimes though, it's just fun rooting for an evil character in fiction, not because I buy into their ideology but just because they're engaging. but it's pretty rare for me still unless the protagonist is uninteresting. I will say that my example is pretty loose, since that version of 18 is moreso a delinquent than a villain, and Vegeta is far from a "good guy" at that point.
Last edited by Demon Prince Piccolo on Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by fleahop » Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:25 pm

It's super rare but yes.

I definitely was pulling for Piccolo Junior the first time I watched the 23rd TB as I had watched DBZ first like most Westerners and knew what he'd become (one of my favorite characters). Now that I'm older, less so because Goku really freaking deserved that W.

Strangely, on subsequent viewings I changed my stance on Tien and now root for him in 22nd TB. I flipped on my feelings for the tournaments apparently lol. Tien's struggle with his belief system and growing to be his own man during that fight was/is awesome.

Besides those two? I can't really find myself pulling for any other antagonist. Maybe a little of Granny? Idk I was conflicted on that one.
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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:58 pm

fleahop wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:25 pm It's super rare but yes.

I definitely was pulling for Piccolo Junior the first time I watched the 23rd TB as I had watched DBZ first like most Westerners and knew what he'd become (one of my favorite characters). Now that I'm older, less so because Goku really freaking deserved that W.

Strangely, on subsequent viewings I changed my stance on Tien and now root for him in 22nd TB. I flipped on my feelings for the tournaments apparently lol. Tien's struggle with his belief system and growing to be his own man during that fight was/is awesome.

Besides those two? I can't really find myself pulling for any other antagonist. Maybe a little of Granny? Idk I was conflicted on that one.
As much as I love Piccolo, Goku during the 23rd is the peak of his character imho. I find myself admiring Piccolo's tenacity (that and his villainous flair is incredibly entertaining and a nice contrast to who he later becomes), but Goku is so in control and tranquil during that arc that I have to root for him. As for Tenshinhan, during my very recent re-watch of this arc, I also found myself rooting for him during the 22nd, although this occurred following his shift in ideology.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by 90sDBZ » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:16 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:39 pm Interesting choices. As idiotic as Vegeta is during his fight with Cell, I think I still rooted for him there because Perfect Cell's smugness annoys me as much as Vegeta's arrogance (I guess it's supposed to). Maybe it's more accurate that I rooted for neither of them :lol: . And while Vegeta made stupid decisions when he became Majin, I found it easy to root for him against Boo since he was approaching that battle from a different mindset, to right his wrongs. However, Fat Boo beating the hell out of him was still deserved and satisfying.
I still rooted Vegeta against Perfect Cell, largely because he was the underdog at that point, and also because I respected his bravery. On a side note him busting out the Final Flash was a great moment, because it showed that even when backed into a corner he still hadn't abandoned all hope of winning.
Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:39 pm
90sDBZ wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:49 am If you count 17 and 18 as villains then I rooted for them against Cell.

And I rooted for Dabura against Buu.
I share these, but they're a bit different to what I meant. I meant moreso "villains" or "antagonists" in relation to the character they're fighting. C17 and 18 weren't antagonists when it came to fighting Cell, and Dabura wasn't the antagonist during his fight with Boo.
So it has to be them fighting one of the heroes? In that case it's really hard for me to think of any instance. I guess I'll say Cell vs Mr Satan and his crew, similar to how Krillin felt.

In the Buu saga I came to love Mr Satan, but early on during the Cell Games he was bordering on annoying.

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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:22 pm

Yep, that's moreso what I meant; that or even a former antagonist. So if you had said you rooted for Boo against Dabura or Cell against 16, 17, and 18, that would qualify. Mr. Satan vs Cell is a good instance and the only time I rooted for Cell. Well, I might've rooted for him against 17 also since 17 was pretty smug.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by The Accountant » Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:28 am

It probably would be Tenshinhan during the finals of 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai. He'd been through some stuff up to that point, and genuinely seemed to care about the wellbeing of Goku.

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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:49 am

I alway root for Vegeta getting his ass handed to him be it Zarbon or the Ginyu Force or Freeza or 18 or Cell

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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:54 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:49 am I alway root for Vegeta getting his ass handed to him be it Zarbon or the Ginyu Force or Freeza or 18 or Cell
You know, I forgot this, but I definitely rooted for Zarbon against Vegeta as well.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by dva_raza » Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:11 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:02 am
Image
That’s a lovely sight. My favorite scene in the whole series.
Actually the fight itself is among my top favorite ones. It was subtle and to the point. And she just handled him so beautifully from beginning to end and I was enjoying every second, although probably also because I fell inlove from the moment she appeared lol. But yeah, him slowly realizing he was lost as the fight progressed was so very fun to watch, and the fact that it was so totally earned made it the more satisfying.
Also her team was awsome. The android trio were a badass introduction and at the same time they didn’t seem to give a fuck about anything, even them going to kill Goku seemed like a massive chore they just wanted to get over with lol.

I root for villains/antagonists regularly at least to a degree, either for dumb reasons like they're just likable/fun therefore I want to see more of them within the story or because they are up against someone I dislike. Also someone like Granolah, who is an antagonist who's motives come out of pain from unjustice.
A character I can think of that I rooted for to the point it frustrated me was Zarbon. I had liked him immediately, he seemed intelligent and grounded, I believe he was the first to express concern over the fact that Vegeta was showing to be stronger than before on the routers, but Frieza shrugged it off. He was also the very first person we get to see putting Vegeta in his place (Goku didn’t really manage) so he'll have a special place in my heart for that. I really wanted him to succeed and remain alive, even though obviously he wasn’t gonna, he seemed like he could’ve been more efficient if he was given the chance.
Too bad Frieza was stupid enough to make him bring Vegeta back without any kind of restraints while he’s just standing in another room doing nothing. That was basically Zarbon’s end and I hated that. It was also the cataclist for Frieza’s defeat. Had Zarbon returned to finish Vegeta off or just let him die off instead of healing him, Frieza would have kept the balls he already had, might have found Vegeta’s and Krillin’s balls later, and even if not, or if he didn’t manage to obtain the password, he would’ve still left Namek safely before Goku even arrived.
And speaking of Frieza I don’t know if I ‘root’ for him as much as I just feel very bad for him everytime he’s defeated.
When he was laying on the ground after getting cut in half I would’ve 100% sure done the same thing Goku did even if it’s totally dumb. Something about him makes me feel bad for him like for no other villain. Same thing when Trunks oneshotted him and same thing in RoF.
So it was uplifting for me when Whis revived him in the final Super episode. Someone being genuinely nice to him for the first time felt pleasing. Even if he says he’s still a villain it seemed like he was taken aback by that and I want to see what he does when he is “left loose” and nobody is confronting him

I also rooted for Fat Buu when he fought against Vegeta. Buu was like a child who knows nothing more than what he was told to do but Vegeta unchained the situation consciously.
I hated kid Trunks for intervening when Buu was owning Vegeta. I was so ready for Buu to kill him like he deserves, not give him the chance to glorify himself with that “sacrifice” thing. Which by the way, I disagree that it was Vegeta trying to right his wrongs. I don’t think it’s a noble act as people make it out to be. He was gloating about Goku not being “the hero” this time while he was about to confront Buu. Seemed like he just wanted to take that power away from Goku and be able to feel some control to feed his petty ego. ALMOST as if he had created a mess so he would get to be the one to solve it and feel some sense of control over Goku
Last edited by dva_raza on Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by jjgp1112 » Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:44 pm

Outside of Vegeta on Namek, never. Dragon Ball tends to make its villains completely despicable. Now are there ones that you love to hate and thus how they thwart something just to keep the story going? Sure, but that's not quite rooting I don't think.

Ah wait, 18 against Vegeta! That's it though.
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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:08 pm

Does Broly count? I wasn't really rooting for him to win the fight, I just wanted to see him survive his fight against Gogeta. You could also make the argument that he was the protagonist of the film, so I'm not 100% sure if he counts.

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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:10 pm

Super Saiyan Swagger wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:08 pm Does Broly count? I wasn't really rooting for him to win the fight, I just wanted to see him survive his fight against Gogeta. You could also make the argument that he was the protagonist of the film, so I'm not 100% sure if he counts.
You definitely can make the argument that Broly is the protagonist of his film. That said, I say he counts!
Yeah, I totally didn't have a crush on Android 18 when I was 9. That had absolutely nothing to do with me rooting for her against Vegeta, either. :oops:
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:44 pm Outside of Vegeta on Namek, never. Dragon Ball tends to make its villains completely despicable. Now are there ones that you love to hate and thus how they thwart something just to keep the story going? Sure, but that's not quite rooting I don't think.

Ah wait, 18 against Vegeta! That's it though.
While true, the only Dragon Ball villain I've hated enough to be fully cheering them on to die was Super Perfect Cell. And then Boo just because he seemed impossible to kill.

Wait, no, Babidi. Babidi takes the cake. :lol:
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by Hulk10 » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:23 pm

BootyCheeksJohnson wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:46 am Canon Broly. I think most of us did to an extent. Obviously he had to be stopped because he was dangerous but I felt really bad when Gogeta attempted to kill him, especially when he started coming down from his rage.
It felt like putting down an animal.
Yeah you have a point.
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Re: When Have You Ever Actively Rooted for a Villain/Antagonist in the Series?

Post by Yuji » Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:19 am

Freeza in the ToP

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