What Is Your Favorite Example of a Storytelling Device Toriyama Uses?

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What Is Your Favorite Example of a Storytelling Device Toriyama Uses?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:00 pm

Like any storyteller, Akira Toriyama has certain storytelling devices that he employs to tell his story, and these become evident the further you get into his original manga. Which example (of any trope) sticks out to you as one of your favorite uses of a trope? For me, it's the idea that there are always bigger fish in the sea, and I don't think it was more effectively handled than with the arrival of Raditz and the discovery of Goku's Saiyan heritage. This is only effective when you look at the Raditz arc as what it's meant to be: the direct continuation to Goku being named the Strongest Under the Heavens after defeating Piccolo Jr. at the 23rd Budokai.

Goku: Strongest Under the Heavens

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Goku is at the top of the world. Third time is the charm as he defeats the reincarnation of his arch foe, Piccolo Daimao, and claims the title as Strongest Under the Heavens finally. He's surpassed Muten Roshi's expectations and become the pinnacle of a martial artist in mind, body, and spirit. And he's not done: as he looks off into the distance at Piccolo Jr. flying off, he dreams of fighting an even stronger Piccolo in the future.

Enter the Saiyans

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A mysterious alien warrior shows up at the Kame House, revealing himself to be Goku's older brother and revealing Goku's true Saiyan heritage. We also discover quickly that he's much more powerful than the two strongest fighters on earth, Goku and his arch foe Piccolo.

Introducing stronger enemies is a staple of Dragon Ball, but I feel the introduction of the Saiyans was the moment where it was most effective. The Piccolo Jr. arc is my favorite arc in all of Dragon Ball, and it manages to place Goku at the top and acts as an immensely satisfying finale...and then the Saiyan arc (my 2nd favorite) takes Goku effectively right back to square one. What makes it even better is that it's hinted, despite 5 years of peace and family, that Goku has not been resting on his laurels. He's been training and still growing ever stronger, and so has Piccolo. Yet they're still dwarfed by Raditz. And in another twist (which we've seen before) a former enemy/antagonist teams up to take down a more dangerous new opponent. And even better, Piccolo actually kills Goku (a surprise within itself) and in a way that is not what was expected. I know some fans bemoan the introduction of Saiyans into the lore, but to me, it managed to keep a trope feeling fresh and provided some really organic story and character progression. And it still manages to be in line with Roshi teaching his pupils that there will always be someone stronger than you out there.

Anyway that's mine. What's yours? Sound off below.
Last edited by Demon Prince Piccolo on Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: What Is Your Favorite Example of a Storytelling Device Toriyama Uses?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:22 pm

I bet Vegeta cried like a little girl when he learned Piccolo managed to kill Goku and he didnt.
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Re: What Is Your Favorite Example of a Storytelling Device Toriyama Uses?

Post by 90sDBZ » Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:50 pm

I like how Toriyama was willing to subvert expectations by doing the opposite of what people expected. Like when Goku comes back as the main character in the Buu saga after so much time spent building up Gohan. It was the classic father-son passing of the torch, except Goku ends up taking the torch back. I completely understand why this annoyed some people, but it was ultimately for the best. The Buu saga was one of the least predictable arcs; anything could happen, and that's why it was so fun.

I also like how he introduces mysterious new characters and makes us wait for an explanation while stuff unfolds. Trunks might be the best example of this; showing up, declaring to destroy Frieza, saying he'll be the one to meet Goku, and then turning Super Saiyan and making good on his promise. This all raises so many questions while simultaneously getting us excited to see him meet Goku.

Cell's introduction is also great, with Kami keeping both the viewer/reader and Piccolo in suspense through his reactions, and then that eerie scene in Gingertown that's straight out of a horror film.

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Re: What Is Your Favorite Example of a Storytelling Device Toriyama Uses?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:06 pm

90sDBZ wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:50 pm I like how Toriyama was willing to subvert expectations by doing the opposite of what people expected. Like when Goku comes back as the main character in the Buu saga after so much time spent building up Gohan. It was the classic father-son passing of the torch, except Goku ends up taking the torch back. I completely understand why this annoyed some people, but it was ultimately for the best. The Buu saga was one of the least predictable arcs; anything could happen, and that's why it was so fun.

I also like how he introduces mysterious new characters and makes us wait for an explanation while stuff unfolds. Trunks might be the best example of this; showing up, declaring to destroy Frieza, saying he'll be the one to meet Goku, and then turning Super Saiyan and making good on his promise. This all raises so many questions while simultaneously getting us excited to see him meet Goku.

Cell's introduction is also great, with Kami keeping both the viewer/reader and Piccolo in suspense through his reactions, and then that eerie scene in Gingertown that's straight out of a horror film.
Fantastic examples. In recent years, I've come around massively to Goku becoming the lead again in the Boo arc. Whatever flaws it has, the zany and unpredictable nature of the Boo arc ends up largely working in its favor. Trunks introduction works perfectly also, because (like with Chichi during the 23rd, especially in the Japanese version of the anime) there are plenty of clues as to their true identity before its revealed.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: What Is Your Favorite Example of a Storytelling Device Toriyama Uses?

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:16 pm

I like the use of "there's always someone stronger!" and the "looks weak, is strong" trope (although I also feel like you need to break up the use of the latter). I also love seeing how he transitions to whatever scene he wants to do next instead of trying to be super detailed in the story breakdown.
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Re: What Is Your Favorite Example of a Storytelling Device Toriyama Uses?

Post by ABED » Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:20 pm

Lampshading. When he's used a trope a few too many times, he'll subvert it or call it out, like pointing out drawing out a person's power is not a unique power.
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Re: What Is Your Favorite Example of a Storytelling Device Toriyama Uses?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:31 pm

I personally like when there is a character who can transform anytime to become stronger but doesn't want to do that until forced to do so. That includes not only obvious drawbacks like draining power, losing control or being slower like Trunks against Cell, but also silly things like Zarbon just looking ugly or even Vegeta not wanting to do fusion dance because of how dumb he looks doing that pose. I personally find it more interesting excuse than typical holding back for no reason.
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Re: What Is Your Favorite Example of a Storytelling Device Toriyama Uses?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:32 pm

ABED wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:20 pm Lampshading. When he's used a trope a few too many times, he'll subvert it or call it out, like pointing out drawing out a person's power is not a unique power.
I admit I'm pretty new to this one. Would another example of this be Vegeta saying "It's a Super Saiyan bargain sale!" after witnessing Kid Trunks go Super Saiyan for the first time? If so, then I'm definitely a fan of that device.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: What Is Your Favorite Example of a Storytelling Device Toriyama Uses?

Post by ABED » Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:48 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:32 pm
ABED wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:20 pm Lampshading. When he's used a trope a few too many times, he'll subvert it or call it out, like pointing out drawing out a person's power is not a unique power.
I admit I'm pretty new to this one. Would another example of this be Vegeta saying "It's a Super Saiyan bargain sale!" after witnessing Kid Trunks go Super Saiyan for the first time? If so, then I'm definitely a fan of that device.
Yeah, that is a great example.
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Re: What Is Your Favorite Example of a Storytelling Device Toriyama Uses?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:31 am

sunsetshimmer wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:31 pm I personally like when there is a character who can transform anytime to become stronger but doesn't want to do that until forced to do so. That includes not only obvious drawbacks like draining power, losing control or being slower like Trunks against Cell, but also silly things like Zarbon just looking ugly or even Vegeta not wanting to do fusion dance because of how dumb he looks doing that pose. I personally find it more interesting excuse than typical holding back for no reason.
My favorite instance of this is the retroactive knowledge that Goku could have become a Super Saiyan 3 during his re-match with Vegeta. It's especially funny in the anime considering how epic it makes the fight, whereas in the manga it's just a brief skirmish. I also like it because when Goku pulls it out against Fat Boo, you know things have gotten serious, that and we're finally seeing the fruits of Goku's training in the Other World and just how much he's managed to surpass his naturally stronger son.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: What Is Your Favorite Example of a Storytelling Device Toriyama Uses?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:57 am

There's another one I love that I haven;t seen anyone mention yet. It's probably my runner-up favorite. It's when Toriyama reveals things about a character's newfound power based on their body language compared to other characters when observing a fight (and sometimes during).

I'll name my favorite two overarching examples of this. The first is Goku all throughout the 23rd Budokai, particularly any moment when he isn't fighting Piccolo Jr. (where for the most part he's having to go all-out). We first see this when Goku calmly predicts when Krillin, Tenshinhan, Yamcha, and Chaozu will arrive. Then there's his calm demeanor when Cyborg Tao shows up, as he knows he's no longer a threat way before anyone else does. We see it whenever Goku is observing fights from the sidelines, namely his serious, tense expressions when monitoring Piccolo's power or Shen's (in contrast to everyone laughing at the latter). And we see it during Goku's re-match with Ten, whenever Goku smiles. During the fight, Roshi remarks at Goku's lack of exhaustion, while Ten is shown breathing hard. All of this is a great visual indicator that Goku is on an entirely different level from his peers.

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The second instance that I love almost as much is Gohan upon exiting the Room of Spirit and Time.
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We see this upon Goku's power-up on Karin's tower, where all of the characters a terrified at Goku's power. Meanwhile, Gohan's there like "...That's it?" We see this again when the Z senshi are watching Goku fight Cell. Gohan is quiet, but visibly confused as to what everyone is so blown away about. This is something Toriyama does very well.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: What Is Your Favorite Example of a Storytelling Device Toriyama Uses?

Post by jjgp1112 » Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:25 pm

The instant expert who doesn't even understand the gravity of the crazy shit they're doing, they just do it - usually done with all of the kid characters.

And he always really sticks the landing with the final battles. You know when thebhero seemingly has everything handled, something will fuck it up.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
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Re: What Is Your Favorite Example of a Storytelling Device Toriyama Uses?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:18 am

jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:25 pm The instant expert who doesn't even understand the gravity of the crazy shit they're doing, they just do it - usually done with all of the kid characters.

And he always really sticks the landing with the final battles. You know when thebhero seemingly has everything handled, something will fuck it up.
That's Kid Goku throughout the entire Red Ribbon Army arc, along with Arale when she pops up. Then with Kid Trunks and Goten upon our first time seeing them go Super Saiyan. I suppose Gohan's rage boosts (particularly against Nappa, Vegeta, Dodoria, and Freeza) can constitute as this also. I like this trope all throughout, but the Kid Goku, Arale, and Gohan examples are the ones I enjoy most.

Probably my favorite instance of a final battle going awry is the first Goku vs. Vegeta fight when Vegeta pulls out the Great Ape transformation with the artificial moon.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: What Is Your Favorite Example of a Storytelling Device Toriyama Uses?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Dec 05, 2021 1:34 am

When a power up does jack shit.

Krillin and Gohan receive power ups from The Grand Elder that temporarily gives them additional confidence? Yeah they’re still weaker than Vegeta and the Ginyu Force


Vegeta is confidant that a fourth zenkai boost will give him the edge to defeat Freeza in his true form? Yeah…about…that…


Freeza gets a cybernetic upgrade? Future boy murders him in less time than it takes to get through a Mcdonalds drive thru

Trunks unlocks an upgraded Super Saiyan form that might make him more powerful than Cell? Guess again idiot your bulky muscles make you too slow for it to be useful


And of course Goku fulfills an ancient prophecy and becomes a Super Saiyan God and ha it still puts him nowhere near Beerus level.


I think it works best because of all the times “A power up is the key to victory” is used in earnest.

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Re: What Is Your Favorite Example of a Storytelling Device Toriyama Uses?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:07 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 1:34 am Freeza gets a cybernetic upgrade? Future boy murders him in less time than it takes to get through a Mcdonalds drive thru

I think it works best because of all the times “A power up is the key to victory” is used in earnest.
The spiritual predecessor to Cyborg Freeza is Cyborg Tao, where I found it equally hilarious. He takes out Chaozu in the prelims, and continues to steamroll through his opponents. Everyone but Goku is scared. And then when Ten humiliates him during their match, Tao brings out a weapon even after being disqualified, with the Crane Hermit cackling like a nut in the audience. If the fall from grace wasn't already evident enough, Ten nullifies his Super Dodon Pa and KOs him with one punch. And then a stammering, scared Crane Hermit gives a Scooby Doo villain exit when he carries his brother off.

Also, the entire Super Saiyan 3 form fits this trope, as written by Toriyama.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: What Is Your Favorite Example of a Storytelling Device Toriyama Uses?

Post by BootyCheeksJohnson » Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:45 am

Trolling. Early on Toriyama was driven by trolling the audience. As early as the first tournament arc fans were asking/debating how Goku would win, so Toriyama pulled a sneaking one on the reader's. Though it actually made for really good character development.
I think the first ever wish on the Dragon Balls was a good example of a Toriyama troll.
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Re: What Is Your Favorite Example of a Storytelling Device Toriyama Uses?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:01 am

I wouldn’t call Goku losing a tournament trolling.

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Re: What Is Your Favorite Example of a Storytelling Device Toriyama Uses?

Post by BootyCheeksJohnson » Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:18 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:01 am I wouldn’t call Goku losing a tournament trolling.
I guess the correct term would be subverting audience expectations, but Star Wars YouTubers have forever villified that terminology.
We need a Steve Simmons retranslation of the manga.

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Re: What Is Your Favorite Example of a Storytelling Device Toriyama Uses?

Post by ABED » Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:43 am

I wouldn't give them that sort of power. Toriyama had Goku lose the tournament twice to make them want it more, He did subvert expectations. I refuse to give anyone the power to turn that term into a negative.
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Re: What Is Your Favorite Example of a Storytelling Device Toriyama Uses?

Post by PurestEvil » Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:18 am

His subversion of certain tropes and expectations were pretty well executed.

Though SSJ3 is one of the more controversial ones...
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