Why are so many DB creators becoming subject to Toei's wrath?

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Re: Why are so many DB creators becoming subject to Toei's wrath?

Post by John Pannozzi » Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:21 am

JulieYBM wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:16 am
John Pannozzi wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:09 am
JulieYBM wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:45 am We should abolish copyright laws and use an UBI system to insure that everyone--artist or not--has enough money to live, regardless of whether their work is popular enough or not.
It might be more realistic to promote Creative Commons (https://creativecommons.org/) as an alternative to copyright.
Arguing from a position of compromise will inevitably lead to even more compromise (i.e. being pulled further toward the position of the opposite party). I'll stay at my position and make them come to me. I don't have anything to lose as it is.
Ok. What problems do you have with Creative Commons as it exists right now and how would you change it?

Edit: Maybe I misunderstood Julie.

In an ideal world, I would want copyright abolished, and have Creative Commons fill the void. And yeah, UBI and universal healthcare are also must have (but off topic).

But for the foreseeable future, I'd settle for just propping Creative Commons.
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Re: Why are so many DB creators becoming subject to Toei's wrath?

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:14 pm

I have my suspicions, but I think it's because DB belongs to Toei now more than to Toriyama.
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Re: Why are so many DB creators becoming subject to Toei's wrath?

Post by kemuri07 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:33 pm

DragonBallFoodie wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:14 pm I have my suspicions, but I think it's because DB belongs to Toei now more than to Toriyama.
I mean that's always been the case. Considering its appearance in Shonen Jump, I don't think DB was ever creator owned.

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Re: Why are so many DB creators becoming subject to Toei's wrath?

Post by kemuri07 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:38 pm

John Pannozzi wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:21 am
JulieYBM wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:16 am
John Pannozzi wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:09 am

It might be more realistic to promote Creative Commons (https://creativecommons.org/) as an alternative to copyright.
Arguing from a position of compromise will inevitably lead to even more compromise (i.e. being pulled further toward the position of the opposite party). I'll stay at my position and make them come to me. I don't have anything to lose as it is.
Ok. What problems do you have with Creative Commons as it exists right now and how would you change it?

Edit: Maybe I misunderstood Julie.

In an ideal world, I would want copyright abolished, and have Creative Commons fill the void. And yeah, UBI and universal healthcare are also must have (but off topic).

But for the foreseeable future, I'd settle for just propping Creative Commons.
I think the argument Julie is making is the same one people make about Democratic Socialism or voting democrat: The system is the problem, so all you're doing is just picking the "less painful" option.

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Re: Why are so many DB creators becoming subject to Toei's wrath?

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:46 pm

kemuri07 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:38 pm
John Pannozzi wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:21 am
JulieYBM wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:16 am

Arguing from a position of compromise will inevitably lead to even more compromise (i.e. being pulled further toward the position of the opposite party). I'll stay at my position and make them come to me. I don't have anything to lose as it is.
Ok. What problems do you have with Creative Commons as it exists right now and how would you change it?

Edit: Maybe I misunderstood Julie.

In an ideal world, I would want copyright abolished, and have Creative Commons fill the void. And yeah, UBI and universal healthcare are also must have (but off topic).

But for the foreseeable future, I'd settle for just propping Creative Commons.
I think the argument Julie is making is the same one people make about Democratic Socialism or voting democrat: The system is the problem, so all you're doing is just picking the "less painful" option.
Yeah, pretty much. Like, I also just have nothing to lose by sticking to a harder position on this subject. Nobody's hurting for Miss Julie's vote on...copyright laws and UBI.
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Re: Why are so many DB creators becoming subject to Toei's wrath?

Post by John Pannozzi » Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:04 pm

kemuri07 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:38 pm
John Pannozzi wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:21 am
JulieYBM wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:16 am

Arguing from a position of compromise will inevitably lead to even more compromise (i.e. being pulled further toward the position of the opposite party). I'll stay at my position and make them come to me. I don't have anything to lose as it is.
Ok. What problems do you have with Creative Commons as it exists right now and how would you change it?

Edit: Maybe I misunderstood Julie.

In an ideal world, I would want copyright abolished, and have Creative Commons fill the void. And yeah, UBI and universal healthcare are also must have (but off topic).

But for the foreseeable future, I'd settle for just propping Creative Commons.
I think the argument Julie is making is the same one people make about Democratic Socialism or voting democrat: The system is the problem, so all you're doing is just picking the "less painful" option.
Okay.

Still, may I ask how Creative Commons is (in yours or Julie's opinion) a flawed system?

Edit: And I admit that I'm the most well read on political positions, but isn't UBI a form of Democratic Socialism: https://emlsri.org/socialistic-democracy/
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Re: Why are so many DB creators becoming subject to Toei's wrath?

Post by Anonymous Friend » Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:58 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:36 pm
As opposed to the US where we keep extending copyright laws because a certain monopolizing company keeps lobbying..
Just for some clarification, what is Disney doing?

As far as I knew, the copyright owner has to abandon the copywrite property, as in not use it, before it falls into public domain, once it's been copywrited. And theres no way Disney continously going to use any of their properties, especially the more popular ones.
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Re: Why are so many DB creators becoming subject to Toei's wrath?

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:05 pm

Anonymous Friend wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:58 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:36 pm
As opposed to the US where we keep extending copyright laws because a certain monopolizing company keeps lobbying..
Just for some clarification, what is Disney doing?

As far as I knew, the copyright owner has to abandon the copywrite property, as in not use it, before it falls into public domain, once it's been copywrited. And theres no way Disney continously going to use any of their properties, especially the more popular ones.

https://abj.artrepreneur.com/mickey-mou ... right-law/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyrig ... ension_Act

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Re: Why are so many DB creators becoming subject to Toei's wrath?

Post by Anonymous Friend » Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:00 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:05 pm
Anonymous Friend wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:58 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:36 pm
As opposed to the US where we keep extending copyright laws because a certain monopolizing company keeps lobbying..
Just for some clarification, what is Disney doing?

As far as I knew, the copyright owner has to abandon the copywrite property, as in not use it, before it falls into public domain, once it's been copywrited. And theres no way Disney continously going to use any of their properties, especially the more popular ones.

https://abj.artrepreneur.com/mickey-mou ... right-law/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyrig ... ension_Act
I like this commentor's question: “What would you do with Steamboat Willie’s Mickey Mouse if it enters the public domain?”

Because isn't that what it's going to come down to in the end? For people Like TNMark who want to so reviews and commentary and whatnot on sites like YouTube, maybe have some sort off agreement that let's you do that with permissions just like people have been doing for decades and decades. For those that want to make legal boolegs, .... maybe not.
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Re: Why are so many DB creators becoming subject to Toei's wrath?

Post by Adamant » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:22 pm

Anonymous Friend wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:00 pmFor people Like TNMark who want to so reviews and commentary and whatnot on sites like YouTube
For those that want to make legal boolegs
He wanted to do both. And he wasn't that concerned with the "legal" part.
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Re: Why are so many DB creators becoming subject to Toei's wrath?

Post by The Monkey King » Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:51 pm

Totally Not Mark made a new video regarding his copyright battle with Toei:

WE WON... sort of (TOEI UPDATE)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZM_Jxj ... llyNotMark

Some interesting information came out, especially Toei bypassing YouTube themselves and breaking their rules in order to block TNM's videos. YouTube wanted Toei to consider the idea that TNM's videos were fair use but it looks like Toei wasn't having it.

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Re: Why are so many DB creators becoming subject to Toei's wrath?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:07 pm

The Monkey King wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:51 pm Totally Not Mark made a new video regarding his copyright battle with Toei:

WE WON... sort of (TOEI UPDATE)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZM_Jxj ... llyNotMark

Some interesting information came out, especially Toei bypassing YouTube themselves and breaking their rules in order to block TNM's videos. YouTube wanted Toei to consider the idea that TNM's videos were fair use but it looks like Toei wasn't having it.
Now this is rather interesting.

The sheer scale of the initial takedown was unprecedented and highly suspect, and it's validating to see that it truly did involve Toei overstepping their boundaries.

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Re: Why are so many DB creators becoming subject to Toei's wrath?

Post by FoolsGil » Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:11 pm

The Monkey King wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:51 pm Totally Not Mark made a new video regarding his copyright battle with Toei:

WE WON... sort of (TOEI UPDATE)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZM_Jxj ... llyNotMark

Some interesting information came out, especially Toei bypassing YouTube themselves and breaking their rules in order to block TNM's videos. YouTube wanted Toei to consider the idea that TNM's videos were fair use but it looks like Toei wasn't having it.
My mouth was wide agape when TNM said Toei went against YT. And I was a bit more surprised that YT didn't immediately retaliate. You'd think that would be a lawsuit right there. That said was even more surprised than that, that YT said "You can't copywrite the world." This changes everything if Toei can't come up with a new argument. Someone could literally come out with Super Abridged tomorrow and Toei could only block it in Japan. Fair Use has won this day.

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Re: Why are so many DB creators becoming subject to Toei's wrath?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:19 pm

Mark's case really was the straw that broke the camel's back.

It might not have been the worst case, nor will it be the last one, but it was most certainly the one that got the world watching and forced everyone to seriously examine where they fall on this debate and make a decision.

And this time, the right decision was made by YouTube. People have often joked and meme'd about how YouTube doesn't care about its creators and will gleefully shill out to big corporate entities if they feel it serves them better, and there is still merit to that take. But at least for now, a new precedent has been set and Toei will need to seriously reconsider its strategy moving forward in dealing with content creators now that they know they don't have unilateral power over the platform's DB community.

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Re: Why are so many DB creators becoming subject to Toei's wrath?

Post by PurestEvil » Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:24 pm

HAHAHAHAHA, even YouTube didn't tolerate TOEI's breach of their boundaries.
Glad to hear this story end on a somewhat positive, albeit bittersweet, note.
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Re: Why are so many DB creators becoming subject to Toei's wrath?

Post by BlueChi » Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:45 pm

I really was not expecting YouTube to play the good guy role in this scenario, but it's a welcome surprise.
Toei really needed this kick in the balls and it's been a long time coming.

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Re: Why are so many DB creators becoming subject to Toei's wrath?

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:49 pm

It's always nice to see a big corporation take a hit. No context needed for me.

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Re: Why are so many DB creators becoming subject to Toei's wrath?

Post by Yuji » Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:27 pm

Great decision by YouTube in the end and I'm glad copyright bullshit didn't fuck someone over again.

Curious to see how some bootlickers in this thread will try to shill for the billion dollar company again.

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Re: Why are so many DB creators becoming subject to Toei's wrath?

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:16 pm

So what has been learned from this whole debacle?

Don't make YouTube a permanent job.
Do extensive research on infringement, fair use and copyright law before you cover a billion-dollar IP.
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Re: Why are so many DB creators becoming subject to Toei's wrath?

Post by jjgp1112 » Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:51 pm

Yeah as much as I defend the right to defending your IP, Toei's stupidly haphazard and malicious targeting just did unnecessary harm. Good on YouTube for this compromise.
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