Despite his goals, Zamasu is pure of heart?

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Despite his goals, Zamasu is pure of heart?

Post by Aim » Sat Dec 11, 2021 12:35 am

So I came across this a while back, apparently Dragon Ball Fusions lists Zamasu as having a pure heart.

I know games don’t count but it got me thinking, Zamasu essentially was pure of heart, he genuinely believed what he was doing was ‘justice’. So Goku Black and co essentially are evil in the eyes of Trunks, but to them it’s the mortals who are evil.

Also makes me think possibly that Goku Black would be able to bounce back the Genki-Dama.

Thoughts?

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Re: Despite his goals, Zamasu is pure of heart?

Post by Cursed Lemon » Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:26 am

I mean I feel like we're deliberately diluting the meaning of being "pure of heart" here.

All delusional people believe in themselves.
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Re: Despite his goals, Zamasu is pure of heart?

Post by Aim » Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:31 am

Cursed Lemon wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:26 am I mean I feel like we're deliberately diluting the meaning of being "pure of heart" here.

All delusional people believe in themselves.
If we are looking at Zamasu’s point of view, all he ever saw was mortals acting evil, he believed what he was doing was correct. It’s a bit different than an actual delusional person who has evidence all around them but chooses not to look.

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Re: Despite his goals, Zamasu is pure of heart?

Post by Cursed Lemon » Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:02 am

Aim wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:31 am
Cursed Lemon wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:26 am I mean I feel like we're deliberately diluting the meaning of being "pure of heart" here.

All delusional people believe in themselves.
If we are looking at Zamasu’s point of view, all he ever saw was mortals acting evil, he believed what he was doing was correct. It’s a bit different than an actual delusional person who has evidence all around them but chooses not to look.
So that thing he did? lol
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Re: Despite his goals, Zamasu is pure of heart?

Post by capsulecorp » Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:12 am

No, this is a mistake. Even Hitler loved his dog.

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Re: Despite his goals, Zamasu is pure of heart?

Post by Aim » Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:22 am

Cursed Lemon wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:02 am
Aim wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:31 am
Cursed Lemon wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:26 am I mean I feel like we're deliberately diluting the meaning of being "pure of heart" here.

All delusional people believe in themselves.
If we are looking at Zamasu’s point of view, all he ever saw was mortals acting evil, he believed what he was doing was correct. It’s a bit different than an actual delusional person who has evidence all around them but chooses not to look.
So that thing he did? lol
He happened to miss the evidence, literally. I’m regards to the manga you can see that just by chance he missed a critical step in the barbarian society by being distracted by something else. It’s not the same.

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Re: Despite his goals, Zamasu is pure of heart?

Post by Aim » Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:27 am

capsulecorp wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:12 am No, this is a mistake. Even Hitler loved his dog.
Hitler knew what he was doing was wrong. He outright tried to invade the world and infringe on others freedoms. Nazi ideology is essentially being willingly ignorant. Seeing women as second grade human beings, people of your species is evil in of itself.

Zamasu just saw planets that had war and other awful events, Hitler saw a group of people and vowed to exterminate them based on immutable characteristics. Not to mention the evil experiments.

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Re: Despite his goals, Zamasu is pure of heart?

Post by Cursed Lemon » Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:35 am

Aim wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:22 am
Cursed Lemon wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:02 am
Aim wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:31 am

If we are looking at Zamasu’s point of view, all he ever saw was mortals acting evil, he believed what he was doing was correct. It’s a bit different than an actual delusional person who has evidence all around them but chooses not to look.
So that thing he did? lol
He happened to miss the evidence, literally. I’m regards to the manga you can see that just by chance he missed a critical step in the barbarian society by being distracted by something else. It’s not the same.
He made absolutely zero attempt to study mortal societies at anything other than a passing glance. He worked backward to support a conclusion he'd already come, he was just a hateful being.
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Re: Despite his goals, Zamasu is pure of heart?

Post by Jack Bz » Sat Dec 11, 2021 5:39 am

Definitely not.

Especially in the manga when Black impales Gowasu with glee, mocking him for believing that he'd managed to change his mind. Having a sadistic enjoyment in tricking and killing your former mentor isn't something someone with a pure heart would do, even if they believed it was right.

Compare this to Goku "killing" Freeza on namek, and the disappoint he feels that it had to go this far and that he couldn't convince Freeza to stop what he was doing.

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Re: Despite his goals, Zamasu is pure of heart?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Dec 11, 2021 6:20 am

If he’s pure of heart so is every other person with narcissistic personality disorder/

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Re: Despite his goals, Zamasu is pure of heart?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat Dec 11, 2021 6:50 am

Yes.

It is Canonically stated that tea brewed by one pure of heart tastes delicious. Conversely, one brewed by someone with a conflicted heart is twisted and bad.

We see Gowasu enjoy the tea Zamasu gives him even after Zamasu decides to kill mortals, and we see Black and Zamasu enjoy the tea they brew, which implies it is the excellent tea typical of those pure of heart. So we can conclude that Zamasu still makes very good tea after he has decided to kill all mortals = good tea means someone is pure of heart = then someone is still considered pure of heart even if they decide to commit genocide.

So it would indeed appear to be the case.

What people here might ignore is that "pure of heart" doesn't necessarily/always/strictly mean good. It can mean enlightened or completely devoted to his cause.

To this day, Zamasu is the only villain that Goku could never sympathize with and never attempted to talk with and straight up wanted to kill and keep dead. Every time Gowasu attempted to reach out to him, it failed completely. Zamasu was completely devoted to his cause and ideals and never ONCE, EVER, showed remorse or regret for his actions and no one could ever convince him of anything, it is explicitly stated that he was "intoxicated by himself"; so he would only listen and care about himself.

^ This is the take-away here.

So this might be a potential explanation as to why he is considered Pure of heart despite the genocide of mortals. It doesn't necessarily have to do with GOOD, as much as it has to do with CONVICTION/WILL, and it can't be denied that Zamasu's will is unbreakable. Zamasu literally returned from beyond the grave to merge with the Cosmos and become the incarnation of Justice and Order, Goku explicitly mentions how "this guy [Zamasu] NEVER QUITS", if this doesn't prove that his conviction/will are second to none, I don't know what does.
Last edited by SupremeKai25 on Sat Dec 11, 2021 7:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Despite his goals, Zamasu is pure of heart?

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Sat Dec 11, 2021 6:53 am

Zamasu is a purist and Puritan. And such thinking can easily evolve into thinking the universe should be cleansed of filth, whether that filth is harmless and innocent or not.
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Re: Despite his goals, Zamasu is pure of heart?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:03 am

How can you call sadistic sociopath who hates everyone but himself (literally, cause his only friend was himself from another timeline) having "pure heart" is beyond me :crazy:

Zamasu doesn't have any motive and his actions could never be justified in any way. There's no looking at him from different perspective and thinking "maybe he is the one who's right?". Defending him is basically like defending Hitler or any other scumbag who felt superior to others.

And having mental issues doesn't mean anything either, cause if someone delusional is doing something bad they're just being locked away in psychiatric hospital instead of prison. It's not like such people can stay in society. They just get different treatment than regular criminals.
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Re: Despite his goals, Zamasu is pure of heart?

Post by PurestEvil » Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:09 am

Oh his heart was pure alright, pure with haughtiness and disdain.
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Re: Despite his goals, Zamasu is pure of heart?

Post by Yuji » Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:23 am

Cursed Lemon wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:26 am I mean I feel like we're deliberately diluting the meaning of being "pure of heart" here.

All delusional people believe in themselves.
We aren't. "Pure of heart" in Dragon Ball has always meant being single-minded in the pursuit of one objective. That's why Goku is pure of heart, why Vegeta is pure of heart when he turned Super Saiyan and why Zamasu is also considered pure of heart.

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Re: Despite his goals, Zamasu is pure of heart?

Post by ABED » Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:25 am

So it's the whole pure of heart, but "pure evil" thing.
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Re: Despite his goals, Zamasu is pure of heart?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:45 am

Well, "Pure" in itself doesn't equate to "Good". Isn't Kid Buu also called "Pure Buu" and considered to be the "purest" form of Buu? He could be seen as a pure being even though he is obviously evil.

We are indeed told that Zamasu is pure of heart, the videogame reiterates what is already stated in the Canonical story.

It's easy to see why Zamasu would be seen as pure. He is uncontaminated from any doubt, his judgement is not clouded at all. He has one goal in his mind and he sticks to it until the very end, not too differently from how Kid Buu was a simple-minded creature driven only by destruction.

The interesting question here is if Uub would retain the purity of heart that Kid Buu, in his simplicity, had...

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Re: Despite his goals, Zamasu is pure of heart?

Post by Jack Bz » Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:43 am

Could Zamasu, Pure Boo, and android arc Vegeta ride the kinto'un :think:

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Re: Despite his goals, Zamasu is pure of heart?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:46 am

Frightens me to think that any rational human being would find a person who engages in universal genocide as having a shred of altruism.

Like... what the fuck?

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Re: Despite his goals, Zamasu is pure of heart?

Post by PurestEvil » Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:01 am

Lord Beerus wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:46 am Frightens me to think that any rational human being would find a person who engages in universal genocide as having a shred of altruism.

Like... what the fuck?
There was this weird yet popular organization from the 1920s called the "National Socialist German Worker's Party"...
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