Is censorship still needed to keep Dragon Ball Relevant to younger people?

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Re: Is censorship still needed to keep Dragon Ball Relevant to younger people?

Post by Soppa Saia People » Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:27 am

2021 kinda stunk for music but pop music now is definitely way better in comparison to the late 90s, and early 00s.
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Re: Is censorship still needed to keep Dragon Ball Relevant to younger people?

Post by Vijay » Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:41 am

goku the krump dancer wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:24 am
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:45 pm Old shit doesn't know how to stay dead.
Or there just seems to be an extreme lack of creativity in virtually all mediums today. Anime sucks, Gaming Sucks, wrestling sucks, music is shit, movies suck and sitcoms are dead.
Yo😅how true this is. Anime/Manga industry was done in mid 90's right around the time DBZ/Slam Dunk & few other shows concluded. It took nothrr 5-10 years for its revival with OP

Wrestlin is joke with PG/Cena era. Only abt 1% of movies, games & music are actually worth the time.

Most anime today...simply arent up to that level is the fact. Dont wish to hurt fans of any show...but man did I try gettin into naruto, OP, bleach, Fairy Tail, DN, FMAB, CG, AoT & handful of other shows...they simply dont measure up to DB imo....ofc, its just my opinion...I especially regarded AoT very high...even thought Eren would surpass Goku as nxt anime protag/face...only to turn into a joke...like seriously...it has been more than 30 years & yet still no anime/manga has come close to cement its legacy as DB & Goku did

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Re: Is censorship still needed to keep Dragon Ball Relevant to younger people?

Post by ABED » Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:42 am

goku the krump dancer wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:24 am
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:45 pm Old shit doesn't know how to stay dead.
Or there just seems to be an extreme lack of creativity in virtually all mediums today. Anime sucks, Gaming Sucks, wrestling sucks, music is shit, movies suck and sitcoms are dead.
I don't think this is true. There's so much great stuff today and there is no lack of creativity. You'll find lots of great original works today just like you would find tons of mediocre derivative works years ago. Sitcoms aren't dead. They are dormant. Eventually some sitcom is gonna hit big and they will come back in vogue.
MyVisionity wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:15 pm
ABED wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:31 pm There is no difference. None of this is remotely relevant to whether someone enjoys something that's decades old. Even if kids are introduced to DB by just their parents, why would that matter?
It matters because of the point that Nagyzöld was trying to make, about younger generations getting into DB on their own versus the older generations introducing it to them because they want to impose their own interests onto the children.

The question was about how inherently attractive a series like DB is to today's kids. That goes out the window if it's just something that their parents force them to watch. At that point, it's no longer something that they were drawn to or had access to on their own. And that would mean that either today's kids are simply not interested in older shows or that older shows are no longer within their reach.
It's not relevant because you cannot force people to like something. It doesn't matter how people are introduced to thing. Older shows are within everyone's reach. It's within a click of a button and you can start from the beginning.

And Nagyzold's point wasn't about how they were introduced to the series.
Wrestlin is joke with PG/Cena era. Only abt 1% of movies, games & music are actually worth the time.
Wrestling in the 80s was PG, it's not about the ratings or Cena. and the ratio of good stuff vs. bad stuff has always been low. Most stuff is mediocre to terrible.
Last edited by ABED on Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is censorship still needed to keep Dragon Ball Relevant to younger people?

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:12 am

There's plenty of great stuff today, as evidence by 1. Me having taste and 2. My niece liking anime and manga and 3. Me being the decider of all things good.

Okay, okay, I'm being a little facetious. I just think "pop culture shit was better when I was a kid!" Is the dumbest fucking hill to die on and reminds me of the shit my parents born in the 1950s would say. It drives me up the wall when people of any age act like the world stopped fucking turning after the generation after them developed ideas about media.
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Re: Is censorship still needed to keep Dragon Ball Relevant to younger people?

Post by Gilby1385 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:09 am

Nagyzöld wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:42 am Why mutilate a show so much to make it suitable for pre-schoolers when it's not meant for them to begin with?
Oh my, imagine what any of the Dragon Ball series would have been like if it WAS edited to fit that demographic!
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Re: Is censorship still needed to keep Dragon Ball Relevant to younger people?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:25 am

Gilby1385 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:09 am
Nagyzöld wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:42 am Why mutilate a show so much to make it suitable for pre-schoolers when it's not meant for them to begin with?
Oh my, imagine what any of the Dragon Ball series would have been like if it WAS edited to fit that demographic!
https://youtu.be/HfBBbR4Z_RU

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Re: Is censorship still needed to keep Dragon Ball Relevant to younger people?

Post by PurestEvil » Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:31 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:25 am
Gilby1385 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:09 am
Nagyzöld wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:42 am Why mutilate a show so much to make it suitable for pre-schoolers when it's not meant for them to begin with?
Oh my, imagine what any of the Dragon Ball series would have been like if it WAS edited to fit that demographic!
https://youtu.be/HfBBbR4Z_RU
The most "French" thing I've heard all week
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Re: Is censorship still needed to keep Dragon Ball Relevant to younger people?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:08 am

PurestEvil wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:31 am
MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:25 am
Gilby1385 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:09 am
Oh my, imagine what any of the Dragon Ball series would have been like if it WAS edited to fit that demographic!
https://youtu.be/HfBBbR4Z_RU
The most "French" thing I've heard all week
It’s like the anti-English dub. Instead of trying to make the show a “bad ass show for whiny preteens and edge lord teens” they made it come off like a Nick jr preschool show.

The Italian opening is a banger however

https://youtu.be/ozKql_qd8E4

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Re: Is censorship still needed to keep Dragon Ball Relevant to younger people?

Post by jjgp1112 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:15 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:12 am There's plenty of great stuff today, as evidence by 1. Me having taste and 2. My niece liking anime and manga and 3. Me being the decider of all things good.

Okay, okay, I'm being a little facetious. I just think "pop culture shit was better when I was a kid!" Is the dumbest fucking hill to die on and reminds me of the shit my parents born in the 1950s would say. It drives me up the wall when people of any age act like the world stopped fucking turning after the generation after them developed ideas about media.
I mean, some of it is true - corporations have gained so much power now and media is so ubiquitous and ad driven (given my job, I would know) that safe, ambition-free work is prioritized above all, made for an audience that thanks to the internet is so unhealthilyy obsessed with finding any pathway to fame that their standards have lowered. Moreover, stuff that DOES actually stand for something and tries to push genre forward are so stuck on *what's* being said instead of *how* it's being said (message vs. execution) that the end product is bland and toothless - Clapter Comedy, trauma porn, etc. And of course, corporations are so afraid to fail that most stuff that gets greenlit are remakes and tentacles. Or some thing like Dont Look Up, which does satire with the subtlety of a spoked bat to the face (which yes, I realize was the entire point, but whether it actually made for a good movie is debatable) The decaying middle class isn't just an economic thing - it's even present in our media options.

That being said, there's still good stuff underneath the algorithm because people with taste and attention to their craft will always exist, but it's all buried under algorithms now. While not perfect, I think monoculture was way better when it came to quality control.
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Re: Is censorship still needed to keep Dragon Ball Relevant to younger people?

Post by ABED » Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:47 pm

jjgp1112 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:15 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:12 am There's plenty of great stuff today, as evidence by 1. Me having taste and 2. My niece liking anime and manga and 3. Me being the decider of all things good.

Okay, okay, I'm being a little facetious. I just think "pop culture shit was better when I was a kid!" Is the dumbest fucking hill to die on and reminds me of the shit my parents born in the 1950s would say. It drives me up the wall when people of any age act like the world stopped fucking turning after the generation after them developed ideas about media.
I mean, some of it is true - corporations have gained so much power now and media is so ubiquitous and ad driven (given my job, I would know) that safe, ambition-free work is prioritized above all, made for an audience that thanks to the internet is so unhealthilyy obsessed with finding any pathway to fame that their standards have lowered. Moreover, stuff that DOES actually stand for something and tries to push genre forward are so stuck on *what's* being said instead of *how* it's being said (message vs. execution) that the end product is bland and toothless - Clapter Comedy, trauma porn, etc. And of course, corporations are so afraid to fail that most stuff that gets greenlit are remakes and tentacles. Or some thing like Dont Look Up, which does satire with the subtlety of a spoked bat to the face (which yes, I realize was the entire point, but whether it actually made for a good movie is debatable) The decaying middle class isn't just an economic thing - it's even present in our media options.

That being said, there's still good stuff underneath the algorithm because people with taste and attention to their craft will always exist, but it's all buried under algorithms now. While not perfect, I think monoculture was way better when it came to quality control.
Our media options which are far greater than they've ever been?

On TV we're no longer relegated to shows that require HUGE audiences to bring in ad revenue. We get more niche shows that don't have to appeal to everyone. While there's some truth to what you're saying, I don't think you have the whoe picture.
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Re: Is censorship still needed to keep Dragon Ball Relevant to younger people?

Post by Gilby1385 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:00 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:25 am
Gilby1385 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:09 am
Nagyzöld wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:42 am Why mutilate a show so much to make it suitable for pre-schoolers when it's not meant for them to begin with?
Oh my, imagine what any of the Dragon Ball series would have been like if it WAS edited to fit that demographic!
https://youtu.be/HfBBbR4Z_RU
Nah, I'd say this opening is more babyish: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IysaDthSYzM
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Re: Is censorship still needed to keep Dragon Ball Relevant to younger people?

Post by Soppa Saia People » Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:51 pm

ABED wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:42 am Wrestling in the 80s was PG, it's not about the ratings or Cena. and the ratio of good stuff vs. bad stuff has always been low. Most stuff is mediocre to terrible.
i really noticed how kinda arbitrary Wrestling Fans where with that kinda stuff, when i noticed how many people who are a bit older then me talk about how amazing John Cena was when they were a kid, and how current wrestlers can't measure up. like, lol, i remember when everyone said the opposite online, i think people just like wrestling more when their kids, and then can get invested in it easier, and then the quality just kinda zig zags around, kinda like sports games like madden and 2k.
JulieYBM wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:12 am Okay, okay, I'm being a little facetious. I just think "pop culture shit was better when I was a kid!" Is the dumbest fucking hill to die on and reminds me of the shit my parents born in the 1950s would say. It drives me up the wall when people of any age act like the world stopped fucking turning after the generation after them developed ideas about media.
i don't like being this person but it's also kinda hard to take serious when people talk about things that, Are for kids or teens, and go yeah, things just ain't what they used to be. like...yeah i would kinda expect them not to for you.
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Re: Is censorship still needed to keep Dragon Ball Relevant to younger people?

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:52 pm

jjgp1112 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:15 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:12 am There's plenty of great stuff today, as evidence by 1. Me having taste and 2. My niece liking anime and manga and 3. Me being the decider of all things good.

Okay, okay, I'm being a little facetious. I just think "pop culture shit was better when I was a kid!" Is the dumbest fucking hill to die on and reminds me of the shit my parents born in the 1950s would say. It drives me up the wall when people of any age act like the world stopped fucking turning after the generation after them developed ideas about media.
I mean, some of it is true - corporations have gained so much power now and media is so ubiquitous and ad driven (given my job, I would know) that safe, ambition-free work is prioritized above all, made for an audience that thanks to the internet is so unhealthilyy obsessed with finding any pathway to fame that their standards have lowered. Moreover, stuff that DOES actually stand for something and tries to push genre forward are so stuck on *what's* being said instead of *how* it's being said (message vs. execution) that the end product is bland and toothless - Clapter Comedy, trauma porn, etc. And of course, corporations are so afraid to fail that most stuff that gets greenlit are remakes and tentacles. Or some thing like Dont Look Up, which does satire with the subtlety of a spoked bat to the face (which yes, I realize was the entire point, but whether it actually made for a good movie is debatable) The decaying middle class isn't just an economic thing - it's even present in our media options.

That being said, there's still good stuff underneath the algorithm because people with taste and attention to their craft will always exist, but it's all buried under algorithms now. While not perfect, I think monoculture was way better when it came to quality control.
Yeah, capitalism's safen-ing of art is definitely an issue. The fact that queer couples can't even kiss on screen is so fucking annoying. It sticks out like a sore thumb in a number of stuff.
Soppa Saia People wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:51 pm
ABED wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:42 am Wrestling in the 80s was PG, it's not about the ratings or Cena. and the ratio of good stuff vs. bad stuff has always been low. Most stuff is mediocre to terrible.
i really noticed how kinda arbitrary Wrestling Fans where with that kinda stuff, when i noticed how many people who are a bit older then me talk about how amazing John Cena was when they were a kid, and how current wrestlers can't measure up. like, lol, i remember when everyone said the opposite online, i think people just like wrestling more when their kids, and then can get invested in it easier, and then the quality just kinda zig zags around, kinda like sports games like madden and 2k.
JulieYBM wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:12 am Okay, okay, I'm being a little facetious. I just think "pop culture shit was better when I was a kid!" Is the dumbest fucking hill to die on and reminds me of the shit my parents born in the 1950s would say. It drives me up the wall when people of any age act like the world stopped fucking turning after the generation after them developed ideas about media.
i don't like being this person but it's also kinda hard to take serious when people talk about things that, Are for kids or teens, and go yeah, things just ain't what they used to be. like...yeah i would kinda expect them not to for you.
For real. I find it so weird that people just turn off their brains to have that attitude. Like, what's even the point of living if you think you've seen it all?
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Re: Is censorship still needed to keep Dragon Ball Relevant to younger people?

Post by Dr. Casey » Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:03 pm

ABED wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:47 pm Our media options which are far greater than they've ever been?
I agree with this, yeah. jjgp's points about modern trends are completely accurate and valid, but I think that's offset by the sheer wealth of stuff available nowadays. People self-publish instead of spending months or years chasing and begging large companies to publish their books. Indie groups - sometimes even a single person - can easily make games with higher production values than what would have been possible for official multi-billion dollar companies during the 90s (or 2000s depending on style and genre). YouTube passed the mark years ago of having more content than what anyone could ever consume, and of course streaming services make watching old stuff, current stuff, and everything from decades in-between far more feasible than it was before YouTube really kicked off the streaming era in 2005 and 2006. The absolute number of options available during the 2010s/2020s is night and day compared to the first half of the 2000s and before, so even if the number of good media nowadays is proportionally lower (not going to weigh in on that either way), the absolute number of options for good entertainment would still be dramatically higher.
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Re: Is censorship still needed to keep Dragon Ball Relevant to younger people?

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:18 pm

I would venture that the indie works being self-published on the net are way better now then they were when I was growing up. I'm constantly impressed by the rise in quality of the fiction I read, especially in the niches. The stories have more depth now and mix in varying aspects of the writers interests. Even among just trans stories the difference is pretty stark between Millenial and Zoomer stories and what Boomers were righting then and now.
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Re: Is censorship still needed to keep Dragon Ball Relevant to younger people?

Post by ABED » Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:22 pm

By relevant, does the OP mean popular? I don't think DB will ever have an issue with remaining popular.
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Re: Is censorship still needed to keep Dragon Ball Relevant to younger people?

Post by WittyUsername » Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:10 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:08 am
PurestEvil wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:31 am
MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:25 am

https://youtu.be/HfBBbR4Z_RU
The most "French" thing I've heard all week
It’s like the anti-English dub. Instead of trying to make the show a “bad ass show for whiny preteens and edge lord teens” they made it come off like a Nick jr preschool show.

The Italian opening is a banger however

https://youtu.be/ozKql_qd8E4
I don’t think teens were much of a priority for FUNimation at the time, at least not until the UUE was a thing.

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Re: Is censorship still needed to keep Dragon Ball Relevant to younger people?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:20 pm

WittyUsername wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:10 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:08 am
PurestEvil wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:31 am

The most "French" thing I've heard all week
It’s like the anti-English dub. Instead of trying to make the show a “bad ass show for whiny preteens and edge lord teens” they made it come off like a Nick jr preschool show.

The Italian opening is a banger however

https://youtu.be/ozKql_qd8E4
I don’t think teens were much of a priority for FUNimation at the time, at least not until the UUE was a thing.
The funniest thing about the French dubs of DB/DBZ is that they were aired on a kid's block (Le Club Dorothee) so the infamous censorship along with the overly cheery sounding openings was an attempt to make the series' more palatable to kids. Of course, another thing is that the heavily censored footage plus AB Groupe's/S.O.F.I's poorly translated scripts were adapted in most of if not all of the other dubs in Europe used the French version as the source more or less.
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Re: Is censorship still needed to keep Dragon Ball Relevant to younger people?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:11 pm

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:20 pm
WittyUsername wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:10 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:08 am

It’s like the anti-English dub. Instead of trying to make the show a “bad ass show for whiny preteens and edge lord teens” they made it come off like a Nick jr preschool show.

The Italian opening is a banger however

https://youtu.be/ozKql_qd8E4
I don’t think teens were much of a priority for FUNimation at the time, at least not until the UUE was a thing.
The funniest thing about the French dubs of DB/DBZ is that they were aired on a kid's block (Le Club Dorothee) so the infamous censorship along with the overly cheery sounding openings was an attempt to make the series' more palatable to kids. Of course, another thing is that the heavily censored footage plus AB Groupe's/S.O.F.I's poorly translated scripts were adapted in most of if not all of the other dubs in Europe used the French version as the source more or less.
Most European dubs were, yes, but not all. The one notable European dub with several redeeming qualities was the German dub. Not only was the company displeased with the French opening and took the initiative to ask AB Groupe for alternatives (which led to an amazing cover of Chala-Head-Chala) but they used their local translation of the manga to fix errors, where possible in the scripts they were given, replacing terms like "Space Warrior" and "Super Warrior" with the more accurate "Saiya-jins" and "Super Saiya-jins" respectively. Lines like "By the power of Kaio, transformation!" was also changed to "I AM THE LEGENDARY SUPER SAIYA-JIN!" during Goku and Freeza's fight.

Suffice to say the German dub wasn't perfect by a long shot, but things like this make it an admirable and valiant attempt at improving upon the (admittedly low) European standard of Dragon Ball dubs.
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Re: Is censorship still needed to keep Dragon Ball Relevant to younger people?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:48 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:11 pm
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:20 pm
WittyUsername wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:10 pm

I don’t think teens were much of a priority for FUNimation at the time, at least not until the UUE was a thing.
The funniest thing about the French dubs of DB/DBZ is that they were aired on a kid's block (Le Club Dorothee) so the infamous censorship along with the overly cheery sounding openings was an attempt to make the series' more palatable to kids. Of course, another thing is that the heavily censored footage plus AB Groupe's/S.O.F.I's poorly translated scripts were adapted in most of if not all of the other dubs in Europe used the French version as the source more or less.
Most European dubs were, yes, but not all. The one notable European dub with several redeeming qualities was the German dub. Not only was the company displeased with the French opening and took the initiative to ask AB Groupe for alternatives (which led to an amazing cover of Chala-Head-Chala) but they used their local translation of the manga to fix errors, where possible in the scripts they were given, replacing terms like "Space Warrior" and "Super Warrior" with the more accurate "Saiya-jins" and "Super Saiya-jins" respectively. Lines like "By the power of Kaio, transformation!" was also changed to "I AM THE LEGENDARY SUPER SAIYA-JIN!" during Goku and Freeza's fight.

Suffice to say the German dub wasn't perfect by a long shot, but things like this make it an admirable and valiant attempt at improving upon the (admittedly low) European standard of Dragon Ball dubs.
That dub was an exception among them for sure, true not the best ever though still i'd take it over the French dubs any day if i was European as it was an effort to take what was so bad and infamous about the latter and make something better. They went the extra mile to improve the scripts where possible so that's a plus, it definitely ranks higher than the others with those things in mind.

On another note, apparently the Big Green dubs' scripts were more or less machine translated from the French scripts (even using terms from it like Space/Super Warriors, Crystal Dragon Balls, Magic Stick/Baton.etc) which aside from the rushed nonexistent direction and laughably poor acting is another reason why those dubs of the movies turned out as infamously awful as they did.
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

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