Vegeta was given so many chances in DBZ

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super michael
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Vegeta was given so many chances in DBZ

Post by super michael » Wed Feb 16, 2022 1:48 pm

Lets think about it for a moment, Vegeta in DBZ has done so many things wrong yet he was given was many chance. Here are the examples:

Saiyan Saga
Killing Goku friends and wanting to kill everyone on earth.
Attempting to blow up the earth.

Namek Saga
Steal Namek Dragon Ball.
Kill Namekians.
Planning to kill the good guys.

Android and Cell Saga
Killing the truck driver, even if it is accidental.
Letting Cell escape to get his perfect form.
Attacking anyone that wanted to kill Cell.

Buu Saga
Getting possessed on purpose.
Killing innocent people, just to force Goku to fight him. If Goku refused then Vegeta continues killing.
Vegeta not caring about Buu resurrection and then knocking Goku out to fight Buu alone.
Vegeta being difficult to fuse with Goku, until Vegeta hears Buu has absorbed his family.
Vegeta destroying the Potara and refused to do the fusion dance.
Vegeta let the earth get destroyed rather than fuse with Goku.

Yet somehow in DBS he became the 2nd main character and gets all the best training.

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Re: Vegeta was given so many chances in DBZ

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:05 pm

I’m not even a fan of Vegeta but this seems like an odd complaint.

He was a villain then he was a villain who sided with the good guys out of convenience then he was mostly reformed then he was tempted to the dark side again realized how awful he was and that he isn’t the person he used to be and sacrifices himself to try to stop Boo and then gets brought back has to temporarily overcome his pride to stop Boohan and then finally admits Goku is his better.

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Re: Vegeta was given so many chances in DBZ

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:30 pm

He gets the best training because he is the most suitable candidate for it, power and mentality wise.

Also, he finally took one of those chances after having his majin tantrum and stopped being an intolerable dick and a villain, therefore his relevance in DBS.

People still make mistakes, whether they are good or bad:

Vegeta not caring about Buu resurrection and then knocking Goku out to fight Buu alone.
- that's a character flaw, he is prideful and thinks he can take Buu on his own. Goku actually had the power to kill Buu, yet chose not to.

Vegeta being difficult to fuse with Goku, until Vegeta hears Buu has absorbed his family.
- that's a writing fumble, there was a perfect reason for not wanting to fuse instead of throwing another tantrum: potara are FOREVER.

Vegeta destroying the Potara and refused to do the fusion dance.
- Goku was doing the same thing, how come only Geets is held accountable for this? also, the fusion dance took days to be learned, they didn't have enough time.

Vegeta let the earth get destroyed rather than fuse with Goku.
- This is factually incorrect. Earth was destroyed in a heartbeat. It was already destroyed when they refused to do it on Kaioshin Kai, and inside Buu they had a reasonable plan to defeat him.
You sound like a conservative newspaper trying to blame a certain person for what Kid Buu did. Like when they blame the mother after a kid is kidnapped.

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Re: Vegeta was given so many chances in DBZ

Post by super michael » Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:41 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:30 pm Vegeta destroying the Potara and refused to do the fusion dance.
- Goku was doing the same thing, how come only Geets is held accountable for this? also, the fusion dance took days to be learned, they didn't have enough time.
Vegeta destroyed the potara two times, the first time he could have kept the Potara for an emergency. Goku was upset that Vegeta destroyed the potara inside Buu body so he gets the full blame here.

Now on Kaioshin world both Goku and Vegeta are equally at fault there. They both wanted to destroy the potara instead of keeping it save.
Vegeta not caring about Buu resurrection and then knocking Goku out to fight Buu alone.
- that's a character flaw, he is prideful and thinks he can take Buu on his own. Goku actually had the power to kill Buu, yet chose not to.
Goku wasn't going to be around forever he had a time limit, if he killed Buu then there would be no one to defend the earth. Goku was dead, Vegeta was dead and Gohan was assumed dead by everyone. Goku was wise about thinking for the future of the earth by saving time to train the boys.
Vegeta let the earth get destroyed rather than fuse with Goku.
- This is factually incorrect. Earth was destroyed in a heartbeat. It was already destroyed when they refused to do it on Kaioshin Kai, and inside Buu they had a reasonable plan to defeat him.
You sound like a conservative newspaper trying to blame a certain person for what Kid Buu did. Like when they blame the mother after a kid is kidnapped.
Buu was released from his seal thanks to Vegeta in the first place. Had Vegeta not got possessed then there would be no Kid Buu destroying anything.

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Re: Vegeta was given so many chances in DBZ

Post by Vijay » Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:07 pm

All the things you mentioned & the fact he remained fan-favourite durin its original serialization back then 1980's-1996 till date is what makes Vegeta an unique character.

So many try bein anti-hero, and quite frankly none of em ever match up to Vegeta. The masculinity, arrogance, battle genius, stubbornness, prideful all rolled into 1 form: Vegeta

If u think frm an authors POV, guys like Vegeta are needed to push the plot

U knw he's indirectly responsible for most Z fighter deaths in Saiyan Arc (Nappa was his partner so yeah). And yet Toriyama explicitly stated fans wrote/emailed him to keep Vegeta alive.

Then Namek happened. And dude was nothrr level beast. His best performance as character: leader, strategist, cunning, manipulative, lethal fighter

Naturally dude wud be kept for Android/Cell Arc. And u mentioned how he was responsible for it. Similar pattern with Majin Arc

To his defence though, Vegeta really needed that rematch. It defines his life. Its worth more than anything. Cuz dude's got only 1 shot @ fightin Goku, and yet so many interuptions, so its only natural for him to take matters into his own hands. He needed to kill those spectators cuz otherwise Goku wouldnt fight him. Simple

Dude was @ his strongest only @ 2 or 3 points in the entire series, of all were overshadowed by plot.

1. Oozaru Vegeta legit pinned Goku.
2. SSJVegeta @ 19, then later as Super Vegeta @ Semi Cell.
3. Majin Vegeta pre-Majin Boo battle

In every other instances, dude has been overshadowed by most characters in terms of raw strength, skill & technique.

Maybe his experience alone rivals Goku, but as Majin even his strength rivalled SSJ2 Goku, so yeah. Justified rematch.

Dude's a cool character actually. Its all about matter of preference

I dont bother abt dbs cuz washed hands clean off it. Moro Arc was decent, but ed was crap. So its the usual dbs crap fare. Just sayin dude's insane popularity is what keeps writers think of ways to keep Veggie relevant (training etc). Kimisuruna 😂

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Re: Vegeta was given so many chances in DBZ

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:39 pm

super michael wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:41 pm
Koitsukai wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:30 pm Vegeta destroying the Potara and refused to do the fusion dance.
- Goku was doing the same thing, how come only Geets is held accountable for this? also, the fusion dance took days to be learned, they didn't have enough time.
Vegeta destroyed the potara two times, the first time he could have kept the Potara for an emergency. Goku was upset that Vegeta destroyed the potara inside Buu body so he gets the full blame here.

Now on Kaioshin world both Goku and Vegeta are equally at fault there. They both wanted to destroy the potara instead of keeping it save.
They had a plan that didn't require nobody fusing for the rest of their lives, they were releasing Gohan, the kids, Piccolo... they were de-absorbing Buu. Rushed to destroy the potara? yes. They still had a plan to deal with Buu, they just didn't know who Buu actually was. It wasn't smart, sure, but they had no idea Buu would destroy the Earth the moment he opened his eyes. And it's also how Vegeta is, that's in-character, that's what he does, fights alone, hates Goku.
Even if Geets didn't destroy the potara, they weren't using them again.

super michael wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:41 pm
Goku wasn't going to be around forever he had a time limit, if he killed Buu then there would be no one to defend the earth. Goku was dead, Vegeta was dead and Gohan was assumed dead by everyone. Goku was wise about thinking for the future of the earth by saving time to train the boys.
Defend the Earth from who? he would've already destroyed Buu. It makes no sense at all, to not kill Buu when you had the chance, period. To not deal with the current threat thinking about the following threat has to be the most senseless argument ever. Not yours, of course, this came from Tori himself. So stupid to not eat today because you might run out of food for tomorrow.

super michael wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:41 pm Buu was released from his seal thanks to Vegeta in the first place. Had Vegeta not got possessed then there would be no Kid Buu destroying anything.
Buu was released because Goku took damage. That's how it works, the majin have to deal damage to the heroes, (not the other way around) Goku had SS3 in his backpocket, it would've made impossible for Geets to touch Goku. Again, Goku was the one that screwed up, here.

All in all, Goku had at least two chances to put an end to the Majin threat, greater chances than Vegeta ever had.
He could've used SS3 to oneshot Vegeta and prevent Babidi from gathering the energy he needed, and he could've killed Fat Buu, preventing the Earth from getting destroyed, and spare the immature kids the pressure of having to save the world, something they were not prepare to do at all.

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Re: Vegeta was given so many chances in DBZ

Post by Majin Buu » Thu Feb 17, 2022 12:37 pm

Vijay wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:07 pm So many try bein anti-hero, and quite frankly none of em ever match up to Vegeta.
Like Sasuke in Naruto :thumbdown: .

For me, I'd be way more annoyed with Vegeta if Dragon Ball's plot bent itself backwards to let him escape accountability for his bad actions the way Naruto's did with Sasuke. Vegeta at least always got some kind of comeuppance for the shit he pulled by getting humiliated and beaten to a bloody pulp (and sometimes dying to boot).

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Re: Vegeta was given so many chances in DBZ

Post by coola » Thu Feb 17, 2022 12:50 pm

Majin Buu wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 12:37 pm
Vijay wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:07 pm So many try bein anti-hero, and quite frankly none of em ever match up to Vegeta.
Like Sasuke in Naruto :thumbdown: .

For me, I'd be way more annoyed with Vegeta if Dragon Ball's plot bent itself backwards to let him escape accountability for his bad actions the way Naruto's did with Sasuke. Vegeta at least always got some kind of comeuppance for the shit he pulled by getting humiliated and beaten to a bloody pulp (and sometimes dying to boot).
Yet he still makes same mistakes, then again, when i see some people in RL refusing to acknowledge COVID existence, even after getting it and barely survive it, then yes, there are people like that, who refuse to learn even after being literally hurt :roll:
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Re: Vegeta was given so many chances in DBZ

Post by PurestEvil » Thu Feb 17, 2022 3:50 pm

Majin Buu wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 12:37 pm
Vijay wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:07 pm So many try bein anti-hero, and quite frankly none of em ever match up to Vegeta.
Like Sasuke in Naruto :thumbdown: .

For me, I'd be way more annoyed with Vegeta if Dragon Ball's plot bent itself backwards to let him escape accountability for his bad actions the way Naruto's did with Sasuke. Vegeta at least always got some kind of comeuppance for the shit he pulled by getting humiliated and beaten to a bloody pulp (and sometimes dying to boot).
Not exactly sure what Sasuke did, but they were most definitely nowhere near as horrific and wicked as Vegeta's actions. Dying and being revived twice was still a bit too easy on him imo.
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Re: Vegeta was given so many chances in DBZ

Post by Majin Buu » Thu Feb 17, 2022 5:20 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 3:50 pm Not exactly sure what Sasuke did, but they were most definitely nowhere near as horrific and wicked as Vegeta's actions. Dying and being revived twice was still a bit too easy on him imo.
Off the top of my head:

Turning on his friends and village, attempting to kill said friends at different points, becoming a terrorist that committed murder, impaling one of his loyal allies (who was being used as a human shield and had a crush on him to boot) to kill his opponent and later being easily forgiven for it after a weak "sorry".

After all of this, he gets pardoned simply because he helped save the world- despite immediately declaring that he'll become the next big bad after doing so (to keep the world united he claimed) and only being stopped because Naruto finally smacked some sense into him.

Vegeta isn't nearly as bad in terms of the plot letting him get away with shit with virtually no consequences.

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Re: Vegeta was given so many chances in DBZ

Post by Anonymous Friend » Thu Feb 17, 2022 8:24 pm

Majin Buu wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 5:20 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 3:50 pm Not exactly sure what Sasuke did, but they were most definitely nowhere near as horrific and wicked as Vegeta's actions. Dying and being revived twice was still a bit too easy on him imo.
Off the top of my head:

Turning on his friends and village, attempting to kill said friends at different points, becoming a terrorist that committed murder, impaling one of his loyal allies (who was being used as a human shield and had a crush on him to boot) to kill his opponent and later being easily forgiven for it after a weak "sorry".

After all of this, he gets pardoned simply because he helped save the world- despite immediately declaring that he'll become the next big bad after doing so (to keep the world united he claimed) and only being stopped because Naruto finally smacked some sense into him.

Vegeta isn't nearly as bad in terms of the plot letting him get away with shit with virtually no consequences.
Helping to save the world does tend to give you a sizable amount of points in the good column.
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Re: Vegeta was given so many chances in DBZ

Post by MyVisionity » Thu Feb 17, 2022 8:40 pm

Majin Buu wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 5:20 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 3:50 pm Not exactly sure what Sasuke did, but they were most definitely nowhere near as horrific and wicked as Vegeta's actions. Dying and being revived twice was still a bit too easy on him imo.
Off the top of my head:

Turning on his friends and village, attempting to kill said friends at different points, becoming a terrorist that committed murder, impaling one of his loyal allies (who was being used as a human shield and had a crush on him to boot) to kill his opponent and later being easily forgiven for it after a weak "sorry".

After all of this, he gets pardoned simply because he helped save the world- despite immediately declaring that he'll become the next big bad after doing so (to keep the world united he claimed) and only being stopped because Naruto finally smacked some sense into him.

Vegeta isn't nearly as bad in terms of the plot letting him get away with shit with virtually no consequences.
Sasuke's crimes don't even begin to compare to Vegeta's.

Aside from that, Sasuke saved the world, that was enough. He never killed anyone in cold blood, only in battle. Just because he broke the law doesn't mean he was morally wrong. Hell, that's one of the themes of the entire series. He was tried for his crimes, and then cleared.

You're right about Vegeta facing greater consequences in the plot, but he was a villain. Sasuke was never a true villain, just a misguided kid with power and ambition.

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Re: Vegeta was given so many chances in DBZ

Post by Majin Buu » Fri Feb 18, 2022 10:27 am

Agree to disagree then. I don't care that he was never a true villain.

Him helping to save the world fell flat for me (the entire final arc did honestly) because he never suffered any consequences for his bad actions, especially for being such a shitty person to the people who cared about him.

It's probably just me, but I wouldn't have put up with someone like Sasuke for as long as everyone in that story did, especially if that person was a "friend" who tried to kill me. I would have just written him off and moved on. Would that be wrong of me? Some might think so (and that story would certainly frame me as the wrong one), but I have better things to do than chase after a "friend" who turned on me and my friends and became a criminal under the naïve belief that "he can be saved".

(Full disclosure, I had a falling out with someone I considered a good friend in 2020 after sticking around longer than I should have because I thought we could work things out, so the way Sasuke got off with no consequences for the way he treated people cuts even deeper for me than it used to. In real life people don't change unless they want to, so if they choose to remain stuck in their ways there's no point in sticking around waiting for them to see the light. I feel that's a hard truth Naruto bent itself backwards to avoid admitting, despite everything pointing to Naruto and Sakura being better off letting Sasuke go.)

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Re: Vegeta was given so many chances in DBZ

Post by Saiya6Cit » Fri Feb 18, 2022 12:03 pm

Saiyans
well first off in saiyan saga the one killin is Nappa.
Vegeta trying to blow up the Earth is an equvalent of burning your house because there is a scary spider, in otherwords, Vegeta was not thinking clearly, he was blinded by the wrath of meeting a low class saiyan who was beating his ass.

Androids
I am sure he killed more than one person when he fought A18
letting cell get stronger, Goku would have done it as well, heck even Gohan, it's a saiyan thing you know.

Buu

He allowed to get possed cause Goku was not fighthing him.
he did not care about majin buu resurrecting because he was convinced that they could take him down.
Vegeta does not want to fuse with Goku because he sees it as an IQ downgrade, and you can't blame him for that.

He is wolverine of the anime, deal with it.

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Re: Vegeta was given so many chances in DBZ

Post by Kakarotto92 » Sun Feb 20, 2022 5:31 am

I find it way worse with Sasuke Uchiha in Naruto.

Vegeta was a villain for at least half of the series, so no wonder he did a lot of bad stuff.

If none of his (and Nappa's) victims in the Saiyan and Namek arcs got revived, he'd never be invited to live in Capsule Corp with the Briefs family and would never had married Bulma. He would remain a villain and nobody would "give him a chance" as you say.

Goku and the other characters kinda gave Vegeta a break after the end of Namek, mainly because all the earthlings he and Nappa had killed got revived by the DBs. Later on he married Bulma and was revealed to be Future Trunks' father. By that point the Z-Senshi didn't really saw him as a threat anymore. Then after his Majin Vegeta rematch with Goku in the early Buu arc, he ends up sacrificing his life to save everyone. Not to mention everything he did thoughout the Kid Buu fight.

In a way, Vegeta was the hero of the Buu arc. He's the only character that almost died TWICE in the arc while fighting the main villain, plus came up with the whole Porunga/Genki Dama plan.

After he gets ressurrected, and being such a popular character, plus one of the most powerful, it's obvious he would end up as one of the main characters even replacing Gohan.

Super didn't start this, we were already seeing it in the late Buu arc, in the Fusion Reborn movie, and Wrath of the Dragon.

Geets deserves it.

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Re: Vegeta was given so many chances in DBZ

Post by dva_raza » Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:59 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:39 pm Buu was released because Goku took damage. That's how it works, the majin have to deal damage to the heroes, (not the other way around) Goku had SS3 in his backpocket, it would've made impossible for Geets to touch Goku. Again, Goku was the one that screwed up, here.

All in all, Goku had at least two chances to put an end to the Majin threat, greater chances than Vegeta ever had.
He could've used SS3 to oneshot Vegeta and prevent Babidi from gathering the energy he needed, and he could've killed Fat Buu, preventing the Earth from getting destroyed, and spare the immature kids the pressure of having to save the world, something they were not prepare to do at all.
No, Buu was released because Vegeta decided to get possesed. Just that.
Vegeta is 100% responsable for Buu's release.
Saiya6Cit wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 12:03 pm He allowed to get possed cause Goku was not fighthing him.
Uh..no.
Goku was fighting him. They were going to fight at the tournament after resolving the situation, which they were seconds away from doing.
Vegeta allowed himself to be possessed because he realized he wouldn't win, so he cheated his way into power, he literally said it himself

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Re: Vegeta was given so many chances in DBZ

Post by MrGohanks » Thu Mar 10, 2022 4:29 am

Vegeta haters are some of the most butthurt people in the Fandom lol, even more so than his largely whiny fanbase is ironically

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Re: Vegeta was given so many chances in DBZ

Post by KentMan » Thu Mar 10, 2022 6:12 am

He stole Bulma from Poor Yamcha what a meanie

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Re: Vegeta was given so many chances in DBZ

Post by super michael » Thu Mar 10, 2022 7:59 am

MrGohanks wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 4:29 am Vegeta haters are some of the most butthurt people in the Fandom lol, even more so than his largely whiny fanbase is ironically
How does stating facts make someone a Vegeta hater?

Did Vegeta help Cell get his perfect form? Yes
Did Vegeta choose to follow Cell words and attack Trunks his own flesh and blood to prevent him from killing Cell? Yes
Did Vegeta get possessed on purpose just to get a power upgrade? Yes
Did Vegeta kill innocent to force Goku to fight, knowing that fight would resurrect Buu? Yes.
Did Vegeta destroy the Potara two time, instead of keeping it save incase the battle was too much? Yes.
KentMan wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 6:12 am He stole Bulma from Poor Yamcha what a meanie
If I am being honest I think Yamcha dodged a bullet. Bulma was a horrible character to Yamcha during DB.

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Re: Vegeta was given so many chances in DBZ

Post by KentMan » Thu Mar 10, 2022 8:33 am

super michael wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 7:59 am If I am being honest I think Yamcha dodged a bullet. Bulma was a horrible character to Yamcha during DB.
Bulma was always an ingrate

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