Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 115 - GT 64, Path to Power (FINAL WEEK)

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 115 - GT 64, Path to Power (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Tue Mar 29, 2022 7:53 am

KBABZ wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 7:42 amPersonally, I'd have your first few weeks be thus:
  • Week 1: Jump Special, Super Eradicate and Episode of Bardock
  • Week 2: Battle of Gods and Resurrection 'F'
  • Week 3: Super Episodes 1-5
I'd say have the Jump Special be optional-but-highly-encouraged. While me and Robo DID cover it for our End of Z week, its historical significance as the first major Dragon Ball production since GT ended simply canNOT be overstated, especially since its basic setup was recycled for Battle of Gods. It'd also be neat to have someone reading the equivalent manga chapters, at least up until the Zamasu Arc ends and the two diverge from each other.
That's fair man. If a revival rewatch happens (pending a volunteer to be my collaborator) that's the direction it will go. If it happens I am crediting yourself and Robo for the existing Jump Special trivia because you both really did a magnificent job at it, ditto all the other episodes, movies and specials.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 115 - GT 64, Path to Power (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by KBABZ » Tue Mar 29, 2022 9:21 am

MyVisionity's post inspired the following Mamba trivia!
  • Mamba derives her name from yamamba, a yokai in Japanese folklore that has a lot of aspects that make it into the special:
    • First, Yamamba lives in the mountains and has the appearance of a woman who tends to pick on travelers on the road, making her an appropriate pick for a story about two kids journeying into the mountains.
    • While the being has had many different tales, the one that the Goku Jr. Special seems to be inspired by is a tale of a woman travelling to her village, but enters labor and is forced to give birth inside a stranger's home, only to discover too late that the stranger is yamamba who plans to eat her child, Kintaro.
    • In one tale from the mountains of Shizuoka Prefecture, a hunter encounters the "yamahime" with the appearance of a beautiful woman, but when he tries to shoot her, she repels the bullet with her hands. This seems to be referenced in her introduction scene where she drives the wolves away with her gun, and repelling bullets with one's hands is one of Dragon Ball's hallmark techniques.
    • Some tales also have her nurse children who go missing for three days. The Goku Jr. Special happens to take place over three days.
    • In Kagawa Prefecture the yamamba within rivers are called "kawajoro" (river lady), and weep that their home will be washed away when a dyke is about to break. This may be referenced in the special when Puck tips Mamba's cauldron over to burn her with the boiling soup water, effectively flooding her home.
    • Several yamamba stories depict her as more of a monster who chases people; one has her fall to her death trying to climb after her victim, which is what seemingly happens to Puck at the bridge after they're chased by Mamba.
    • The more monstrous depictions of yamamba give her long, golden-white hair, which may be why Mamba's disguise is blonde in the special.
    And in the course of researching it, I found this one!
    • MISSED TRIVIA: Goku derives his name from go, a box used for serving rice (about 180ml); a goku is the amount of rice needed to feed someone for a year. While go is no longer used as a unit of measurement, 180ml measuring cups are often included in japanese rice cookers. This may be why Piccolo Daimao, Goku's first archnemesis, was trapped inside a rice cooker!

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 115 - GT 64, Path to Power (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Mar 29, 2022 9:23 am

WittyUsername wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 6:56 pm , but it doesn’t do much to really stand out from the stories it’s adapting, outside of taking itself a bit more seriously.
Aside from the drop dead gorgeous animation that was unrivaled as far as Dragon Ball is concerned until Super Broly 21 years later


I think its easy for us to dismiss what this movie was doing because we can just pop in our blue bricks/saga sets or head to Crunchyroll and watch the Dragon Ball tv series but at a time when Dragon Ball really didn't have a home video presence in Japan outside the movies and most of the target audience for GT was in
diapers when the original Dragon Ball ended it made sense to celebrate the 10th anniversary with a movie that went back to the beginning.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 115 - GT 64, Path to Power (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Grimlock » Tue Mar 29, 2022 3:44 pm

KBABZ wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:15 pmI'm glad I did because the Goku Jr. Special introduced its own special continuity problem that I came up with a REALLY clever solution for,
What continuity problem?
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 115 - GT 64, Path to Power (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by KBABZ » Tue Mar 29, 2022 4:31 pm

Grimlock wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 3:44 pm
KBABZ wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:15 pmI'm glad I did because the Goku Jr. Special introduced its own special continuity problem that I came up with a REALLY clever solution for,
What continuity problem?
Check the thread for details: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=47190&p=1736830#p1736830

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 115 - GT 64, Path to Power (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Mar 29, 2022 7:53 pm

A few things that came up that don't really fit as trivia, but are worth noting:
  • KBABZ is fairly sure VegettoEX once said in a podcast that Minoru Maeda animated the final shot of GT episode 64, but we couldn't find the source of this. If anyone knows where that is, please do let us know.
  • There's a rather good analysis of GT's ending here on Kanzenshuu.
  • The plan was to put KBABZ's Goku Jr. special trivia in the main post as a missed trivia mega-drop, but for the second time, we went over the 60,000 character limit (in this case, by a whopping 10,000 characters), so we had to separate it out. (KBABZ mentioned this previously, but I remain entertained by this fact)
  • Yeeaaars ago, my brother heard a rumour that Akira Toriyama actually came back to storyline the Evil Dragons arc. As far as I can tell, this isn't true, but I've always been curious where this rumour came from, and if anyone else remembers hearing it.
Anyway...
Grimlock wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:47 pm Oh I would. But even though I pay attention to details, these dudes take it to another level. I'm not capable of doing long-ass trivia spoiler like they do, bringing up the smallest, tiniest detail I can possibly find.
80% of the credit should go to KBABZ. Most of the time when the trivia's looked a bit anaemic, that's because it's just me doing trivia. KBABZ is a beast for this stuff!
Grimlock wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:47 pm Understandable. Then I leave this rewatch, even though I didn't rewatch it myself (but I did read most of the threads), with a very satisfied discussion I had in one of these threads. The subject was one of my favorites (figuring out the anime continuity in order to fit the movies) to discuss about. It was an outstanding amount of effort and time done by you guys. Great job! :clap:

See you all in whatever project you might have in mind for the future! :thumbup:
Thanks, buddy. :)

Regarding the anime continuity fitting the movies, KBABZ has already directed you to the thread on that it seems. Quite a fun thought experiment on the whole. :)

As for what we have in mind for the future, there are several significant periods of the rewatch where KBABZ was unable to contribute, so someday in the future the plan is to go over that material again (not in the form of a public rewatch, but in terms of the two of us going through that material for trivia), fill in trivia gaps, and put ALL our trivia into a giant document to be posted here on Kanzenshuu. Don't expect it any time soon, though! We're both busy, KBABZ especially!

KBABZ is also working on a Kai-ification of OG DB called The First Chapters, which is a very impressive KBABZ solo project, but I've often provided bits of feedback for it when we discuss it (which we do from time to time), and I've occasionally offered small bits of help too. I'm consistently impressed by what I see of the project even though I'm not a fan of the Funi dubs, so do check it out.
KBABZ also did the Harmony Gold Dub Reconstruction, and does guide work for IGN (including Collectibles for Rift Apart, Tsushima's Iki Island and Horizon Forbidden West), which is why I had to do so much solo trivia, so check that out too. :)

As for me myself, life stuff has me pretty busy, so I don't know if I'm even going to be especially active on Kanzenshuu now that the rewatch is over. I'm not quitting, to be clear, just unlikely to be super active.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 115 - GT 64, Path to Power (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by KBABZ » Tue Mar 29, 2022 8:34 pm

Couldn't resist noticing one more piece of trivia:
  • GT Episode 64 is the first time somebody physically touches a Dragon God, with Vegeta also being close enough to touch Shen Long's head. It's a stark contrast to the characters spending 40 years keeping their distance from him.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 115 - GT 64, Path to Power (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:18 am

Robo4900 wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 7:53 pmYeeaaars ago, my brother heard a rumour that Akira Toriyama actually came back to storyline the Evil Dragons arc. As far as I can tell, this isn't true, but I've always been curious where this rumour came from, and if anyone else remembers hearing it.
Can't confirm where the rumour came from, but around 6 years ago a friend of mine in Canada did tell me he believed Toriyama returned for the Evil Dragons. I doubt its true myself, and I'd tend to believe its a case of fans pedestalizing Toriyama (which to be clear I've been guilty of myself in the past and you could say is something TOEI took advantage of when it came to the revival era content, particularly 2013 onward) and using his name to justify what they like. Nonetheless, there is good and bad Dragon Ball with and without Toriyama (hell he even said he loved the Bardock special even though its something he would have never written himself), and these days I just enjoy what I enjoy regardless.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 115 - GT 64, Path to Power (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by WittyUsername » Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:36 am

I’ve never once heard this supposed rumor that Toriyama came back for the Evil Dragons until just now, and I can’t say I buy it. It simply does not seem like the kind of thing he would come up with.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 115 - GT 64, Path to Power (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by KBABZ » Wed Mar 30, 2022 10:59 am

WittyUsername wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:36 am I’ve never once heard this supposed rumor that Toriyama came back for the Evil Dragons until just now, and I can’t say I buy it. It simply does not seem like the kind of thing he would come up with.
When Robo brought it up I figured it was in the mentality of "well the good bits were done by Toriyama of course", which is very ignorant for many reasons (a lot of bad stuff from Dragon Ball was also Toriyama, a lot of good from Toei, also do you have any idea just how utterly DONE with Dragon Ball Toriyama was at that time????).

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 115 - GT 64, Path to Power (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:18 am

When people love a particular franchise they have a habit of deifying it's creator. I know, because, as I say I'm guilty of it too. It seems TOEI caught on to this around the time Battle of Gods was being released, hence the trend of so many things that followed being marketed as "From series original creator Akira Toriyama". It's a marketable tagline because there are people who will see that and think:
  • Toriyama = Canon
  • Canon = Story must be good
  • Filler = Sucks, because? Lol its filler
Of course when you get into it the differences between what Dragon Ball content is good and what isn't there is far more nuance to not only the quality of the content, but what constitutes Toriyama being involved. His outlines for Super are likely very vague, making it doubtful how much we can attribute to Toriyama, Battle of Gods is a reworked Yūsuke Watanabe story. Then there's other stuff like Resurrection F, which even if we assume was fully written by Toriyama it's hardly a work of genius and is a story anyone could have came up with.

I love Toriyama as much as the next person, but I think even he knows he's past his creative peak (which I would argue was around the Saiyan arc).
Do you have any info about international non-English broadcasts about the Dragon Ball anime or manga translations/editions? Please message me. Researching for a future book with Dragon Ball scholar Derek Padula :thumbup:

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 115 - GT 64, Path to Power (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by sunsetshimmer » Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:27 am

At 64 episodes, Dragon Ball GT is the second-shortest series of Dragon Ball. The only series that's shorter is Super Dragon Ball Heroes, which as of this Trivia is at 40 episodes, but as it's still ongoing it's possible that it will eclipse GT's count eventually.
SDBH has shorter episodes though, so even if it reaches 64 episodes it will still be shorter series overall
Bulma has retained the same outfit for all four of GTs arcs, the first time she's had a consistent appearance in the franchise. Super would keep up this trend.
She actually had different outfit in first 2 episodes and i believe she didn't appear until Baby arc where she changed her clothes.
For the record, Kuririn has died four times: once in Dragon Ball by Tambourine's hand, twice in Z by the hands of Freeza and then Super Boo, and once in GT by Super 17's hand.
It wasn't Super 17. Just regular 17, brainwashed.
The monster that Piccolo is keeping in check in Hell is GT's final reference to Toriyama's contributions to the show: one of his art pieces from 1996 shows Goku, Pan and Trunks fighting a group of them, although none of them were breathing fire.
Worth noting, DBS manga chapter 51 shows planet and monsters based exactly on that art of Toriyama
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 115 - GT 64, Path to Power (FINAL WEEK)

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:50 am

Having given it some thought the last couple of months I would like to announce that at the beginning of next year I will be setting up a rewatch for the modern Dragon Ball material.

As per KBABZ's advise it will begin with Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!! (which will be optional, but highly recommended due to its historical significance as being the first entry in the revival era), Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiyans and Episode of Bardock. The following week will be Battle of Gods and Resurrection F. The week after that will be Super episodes 1-5 and so on and so forth. Super Dragon Ball Heroes will be covered after Super, as this promotional anime was the next series chronologically released. Broly and Super Hero will also be placed between episodes 5 and 6 and episodes 42 and 43 of Super Dragon Ball Heroes respectively as that's when they were released during the promotional anime's run.

The offer for a collaborator will be open until January, but if no one is interested (which is perfectly fine) I will be happy to solo the trivia.

Just putting that out there for anyone that may be interested come 2023.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 115 - GT 64, Path to Power (FINAL WEEK)

Post by ABED » Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:04 pm

I've been thinking of doing a rewatch as well, but instead of reviews (there might be some), it's more of my impressions and memories of watching it over the years. Instead of "I disagree/agree" I think a way to differentiate is our memories of watching the show. It's more of a nostalgic bent. I honestly can't add much of value in a review format. These rewatch threads are exhaustive, and I mean that in a good way. My hats off to making it all the way through.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 115 - GT 64, Path to Power (FINAL WEEK)

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:40 pm

ABED wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:04 pm I've been thinking of doing a rewatch as well, but instead of reviews (there might be some), it's more of my impressions and memories of watching it over the years. Instead of "I disagree/agree" I think a way to differentiate is our memories of watching the show. It's more of a nostalgic bent. I honestly can't add much of value in a review format. These rewatch threads are exhaustive, and I mean that in a good way. My hats off to making it all the way through.
That sounds neat. Do you plan on making it an episode-by-episode thing or more a general "memories of" thread?

My plan for "Revival Era Rewatch" threads is to carry on exactly where this rewatch left off, so after the aforementioned specials, OVAs and movies it will go from Super Episode 1 (likely labelled as "Dragon Ball Episode 509 to provide a seamless transition).
Do you have any info about international non-English broadcasts about the Dragon Ball anime or manga translations/editions? Please message me. Researching for a future book with Dragon Ball scholar Derek Padula :thumbup:

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 115 - GT 64, Path to Power (FINAL WEEK)

Post by ABED » Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:36 pm

Episode by episode seems positively exhausting. I'm thinking more general feelings but broken down by sagas. I'm thinking of doing it by FUNi's arc breakdowns just to be mischievous. I haven't fully thought this through though. I have a few ideas.

As for your threads, I look forward to them.
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