When Dragon Ball anime returns

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

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super michael
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Re: When Dragon Ball anime returns

Post by super michael » Thu May 12, 2022 7:31 am

The problem with Naruto Shippuden anime was the amount of fillers and the amount of flash back, basically there was time we got months of filler episode, then they showed 2 or 3 canon episode, then back to filler. Even when the manga finished, the anime still continued with filler and flash back.

Naruto Shippuden ended on March 23, 2017.
Naruto manga ended on October 6, 2015.

They were just obsessed with filler and flash backs. To make it worse if it was filler that was good or made sense it wouldn't be a problem. But they were awful filler episode.

I never got the watch all the episode, I quit since I got bored of it. I read the manga instead.

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Re: When Dragon Ball anime returns

Post by kemuri07 » Thu May 12, 2022 2:15 pm

Shaddy wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 6:10 pm
kemuri07 wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 11:26 am Excuse me. The Super anime pacing is borderline sleep-inducing. Do you not remember how they adapted the films?
It's still better than Z was, and even if it weren't, that wouldn't justify shackling it to an even slower-release of a worse manga. Prove to me that adapting Toyo's output would make the show as fast as Dragon Ball Recut.
kemuri07 wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 11:26 amThe manga makes significant changes to the storyline that makes those arcs move at a brisker pace. It is one of the reasons I prefer the manga versions of the Super arcs because they cut the fat, and have a tighter focus than the anime which tended to meander.
That's a really weird thing to say given they literally don't adapt 1 2/3 of the movies that came out. You know you can pace a story without making it incomplete, right?
kemuri07 wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 11:26 am Adapting the manga makes sense because why the hell would you waste the resources to hire writers to craft entirely different scenarios from a fairly popular manga.
Why have a mangaka to write their own version of the story instead of just adapting the much more popular anime directly? Do you think people who buy the manga are doing it because it's objectively better or something?
kemuri07 wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 11:26 amAnd with the way anime is made now, we're a far ways away from a Full Metal Alchemist/Brotherhood situation.
Okay, so accepting that this extremely-unverified claim is true, that...justifies making the show worse? I don't understand your rationale here.
kemuri07 wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 11:26 amIt makes more sense from a business and creative perspective to create synergy by having the anime act as promotion for the manga.
Well they certainly don't seem to think that, because the anime is where the money is. The manga is the promotion, that's why it doesn't include Resurrection F or Broly, and why the new movie has nothing to do with it.
JulieYBM wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 1:22 pm I remember in particular that the first five or so cours of Shippuuden were extremely slow because the staff was afraid of catching up to the comic again so they would adapt one or fewer chapters per episode. Mixed in with the fact that they had zero animators or directors at the time and it was a very rough period for the cartoon. Things began to pick up again with Tsuru Toshiyuki returning to the series during the Hidan & Kakuzu arc, though. Then Yamashita Hiroyuki really began to pump out an insane amount of high-quality battle scenes from 2008-2011 or so before transitioning into focusing on directing (Shippuuden #322, #345, #375, #476-477).
I actually really like the Tenchi Bridge mission in concept, but it takes Orochimaru like half an episode to walk up to a bridge? Yeesh.

Sadly however, I'm in the war arc. I think the manga's own speed comes into play during that third of the story and hurts the anime. They just wanted to cram too much shit in there, which results in a story that simultaneously drags its feet and feels like it can't breathe.
Yes the popular anime--that has been off the air since 2018, is apparently the cash cow of the franchise. Despite the fact that there has been no news of any continuation of the anime, and yet the Manga continues to receive regular chapters. I'm sorry I have no idea why people are resistant to the idea that any new series would likely be adaptations of the current manga, if it does happen. But that will be the case when it does. Because it makes the most sense instead of having two separate products with different story lines and possibly of separating your base. What does make sense is having an anime which can be used to promote the manga, and an anime based on the manga that can get manga readers to double dip so they can see their favorite fights get animated.

If the Super anime was so gosh darn important to Toei, more so than the manga, we would have gotten a new season years ago.

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Re: When Dragon Ball anime returns

Post by kemuri07 » Thu May 12, 2022 2:17 pm

super michael wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 7:31 am The problem with Naruto Shippuden anime was the amount of fillers and the amount of flash back, basically there was time we got months of filler episode, then they showed 2 or 3 canon episode, then back to filler. Even when the manga finished, the anime still continued with filler and flash back.

Naruto Shippuden ended on March 23, 2017.
Naruto manga ended on October 6, 2015.

They were just obsessed with filler and flash backs. To make it worse if it was filler that was good or made sense it wouldn't be a problem. But they were awful filler episode.

I never got the watch all the episode, I quit since I got bored of it. I read the manga instead.
Keep in mind that Naruto is a relic of a time in which seasonal anime was not a thing. And the big three were expected to release episodes weekly. Though Naruto is a special case, and I do remember Shippuden infamous for having months of filler episodes. So it sounds like something else was going on with the production.

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Re: When Dragon Ball anime returns

Post by WittyUsername » Thu May 12, 2022 2:46 pm

As I recall, the first Naruto anime had a ridiculously long string of filler as well.

Personally, I have no real interest in seeing Moro and Granolah receive anime adaptations, and I’m not even sure they would make for especially appealing anime arcs.

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Re: When Dragon Ball anime returns

Post by JulieYBM » Thu May 12, 2022 3:28 pm

super michael wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 7:31 am The problem with Naruto Shippuden anime was the amount of fillers and the amount of flash back, basically there was time we got months of filler episode, then they showed 2 or 3 canon episode, then back to filler. Even when the manga finished, the anime still continued with filler and flash back.

Naruto Shippuden ended on March 23, 2017.
Naruto manga ended on October 6, 2015.

They were just obsessed with filler and flash backs. To make it worse if it was filler that was good or made sense it wouldn't be a problem. But they were awful filler episode.

I never got the watch all the episode, I quit since I got bored of it. I read the manga instead.
The anime-original content—much of which is good—was created to buy time for the production of the series to stay behind the comic's release. Near the end of the series the decision to include anime-original episodes was two-fold: the production needed time until it they were ready to begin production of the Boruto: Naruto Next Generations cartoon series and also time for the production crew to arrange a schedule for the climax of the series as best as possible.

The Naruto franchise is historically a director and animator-driven series, so to reach the climactic Naruto versus Sasuke after over ten years of waiting for their fated rematch and not fulfil fan and staff expectations by poorly planning those episodes would have been tragic. Obviously, the staff felt very protective of those episodes. Yamashita Hiroyuki (examples of his animation here; Yamashita directed the 2015 Boruto film and would then go on to be the series director for Boruto: Naruto Next Generations Episodes #1-67) personally directed and storyboarded Episodes #476-477 as well as acting as the animation supervisor for both episodes. Episode #478 was written, directed, storyboarded and half the A-Part of the episode key animated by Tsuru Toshiyuki while Tanaka Hiroto provided the key animation for the B-Part. If all the bending over backwards wasn't enough then Character Designer Nishio Tetsuya acted as the chief animation supervisor for Episode #479 (which Tsuru also scripted). Nishio had never acted as animation supervisor for the TV series before (typically just working on the films and providing character designs while also working on other studios' projects), so for the final episode to cover a chapter of the comic he clearly felt a need to be personally involved with the production. Furthermore, Series Director Date Hayato storyboarded and directed the episode. Date was very rarely personally hands-on with the series, typically letting the series' reputation be crafted by other directors like Tsuru, Murata Masahiko, Wakabayashi Atsushi and Yamashita Hiroyuki. With this being the last episode Date acted as series director for it was clearly meant to be a farewell to the franchise for him.

Anyway, the point I've been trying to make is that anime-original episodes and story arcs are good for the production of a series and also provide their own creative merits (I was quite taken with the Six-Tails arc that aired before the battle with Pain). I would be very happy if Dragon Ball were to take a lesson from the production of the various Naruto animated series and arranged itself in a manner that provided creators with the time they need to create art that they can be proud of. I can only imagine how much more exciting the Tournament of Power arc could have been if Hatano Kouhei's tenure on the series had lasted just a little bit longer so as to provide Nagamine with the time to complete storyboards and recruit freelancer animators to work on Episodes #77-onward. It's my hope that when the next Dragon Ball animated series begins production it will be with the production schedule and resources that match series like Nagamine, Kureta and Komaki's Wano arc of One Piece, Pocket Monster: Sun & Moon or Mob Psycho 100.
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Re: When Dragon Ball anime returns

Post by Saiya6Cit » Thu May 12, 2022 4:07 pm

I am not going to compare DB to other franchises I will just say that in my personal opinion the time for 2D animation is over and even if we don't like it anime is 2D so it will be going bye bye too and I don't personally think there will ever be a new anime.

You can tell that even the newest movie is in this new sort of animation, it's not anime.

Being a digital artist (comissions are open!) I can tell you from first hand experience that even digital 2D art is starting to get outdated. The greatest animation studios are having a bad time (even disney). People now a days would prefer renders or blender models (I am not even sure I am using the correct terminology so please, excuse me with that) but I mean to say something that looks like a videogame and definetly in 3D.

As you should know by now I am a fan of the old franchise only. I have watched some of DBH shorts but I don't care if DB does not get an anime ever again. I hope DB does well in videogames and the cardgames though, so the franchise would still live.

I love Dragon Ball.

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Re: When Dragon Ball anime returns

Post by JulieYBM » Thu May 12, 2022 4:21 pm

Saiya6Cit wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 4:07 pm I am not going to compare DB to other franchises I will just say that in my personal opinion the time for 2D animation is over and even if we don't like it anime is 2D so it will be going bye bye too and I don't personally think there will ever be a new anime.

You can tell that even the newest movie is in this new sort of animation, it's not anime.

Being a digital artist (comissions are open!) I can tell you from first hand experience that even digital 2D art is starting to get outdated. The greatest animation studios are having a bad time (even disney). People now a days would prefer renders or blender models (I am not even sure I am using the correct terminology so please, excuse me with that) but I mean to say something that looks like a videogame and definetly in 3D.

As you should know by now I am a fan of the old franchise only. I have watched some of DBH shorts but I don't care if DB does not get an anime ever again. I hope DB does well in videogames and the cardgames though, so the franchise would still live.

I love Dragon Ball.
The time for 2D animation is not over. Hand drawn animation continues to be the primary driving-force of the Japanese animation industry both creatively and in terms of what is winning over the minds of the younger fans. The passionate animation of the hand drawn animators is winning the hearts of new fans every day and continuing to draw in foreign fans to join the industry.
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Re: When Dragon Ball anime returns

Post by Shaddy » Thu May 12, 2022 5:07 pm

kemuri07 wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 2:15 pm Yes the popular anime--that has been off the air since 2018, is apparently the cash cow of the franchise. Despite the fact that there has been no news of any continuation of the anime, and yet the Manga continues to receive regular chapters. I'm sorry I have no idea why people are resistant to the idea that any new series would likely be adaptations of the current manga, if it does happen. But that will be the case when it does. Because it makes the most sense instead of having two separate products with different story lines and possibly of separating your base. What does make sense is having an anime which can be used to promote the manga, and an anime based on the manga that can get manga readers to double dip so they can see their favorite fights get animated.

If the Super anime was so gosh darn important to Toei, more so than the manga, we would have gotten a new season years ago.
Okay, so why isn't the new movie one of those arcs? Surely if the manga is so important that it needs to drag down the anime with it, it'd be dragging the movies down too. But the new film isn't just not related to the manga, it actively takes place years after it, and nothing seems to be any different.
super michael wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 7:31 am The problem with Naruto Shippuden anime was the amount of fillers and the amount of flash back, basically there was time we got months of filler episode, then they showed 2 or 3 canon episode, then back to filler. Even when the manga finished, the anime still continued with filler. They were just obsessed with filler and flash backs. To make it worse if it was filler that was good or made sense it wouldn't be a problem. But they were awful filler episode.
This is the problem though, I'm saying that the fanedit I'm watching cuts the filler episodes and most of the flashbacks and is still kind of extremely slow.
JulieYBM wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 3:46 am
Yeah, I think Kishimoto was probably pressured into writing fights he should not have. We really did not need more Chouji stuff.
I actually like Choji, though his section of the war is mostly bad because he gets his big confidence boost and says "I'm gonna end this battle" and then doesn't. I was talking more about stuff like Kimimaro, Chiyo and Black Zetsu being parts of fights with characters they have absolutely no relation to, or the samurai leader vs. that guy with the scuba mask. It feels like filler, even in the manga.

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Re: When Dragon Ball anime returns

Post by YamiGoku » Thu May 12, 2022 8:54 pm

Its been 4 years Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years.


Dragon Ball GT ended in 1997

Dragon Ball Super started in 2015

The anime coming back may be a necessity, maybe not right now, but soner or later they are going to need new content to sell merch and the gachas, the gachas make so much money, you may think they dont matter because they are just phone games but they make a lot of money, and they cant just keep releasing the 28th SSJ goku and the 9 UI Goku, yes a new movie helps, but the way these games work, they do a Big celebration when the movie comes out, and maybe they'll use the movie in other big celebration when time pases, but they cant just spam the same Movie content over and over for 3-4 years until the next one.

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Re: When Dragon Ball anime returns

Post by WittyUsername » Thu May 12, 2022 9:21 pm

YamiGoku wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 8:54 pm Its been 4 years Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years. Its been 4 years.


Dragon Ball GT ended in 1997

Dragon Ball Super started in 2015

The anime coming back may be a necessity, maybe not right now, but soner or later they are going to need new content to sell merch and the gachas, the gachas make so much money, you may think they dont matter because they are just phone games but they make a lot of money, and they cant just keep releasing the 28th SSJ goku and the 9 UI Goku, yes a new movie helps, but the way these games work, they do a Big celebration when the movie comes out, and maybe they'll use the movie in other big celebration when time pases, but they cant just spam the same Movie content over and over for 3-4 years until the next one.
I will agree that we maybe can’t discount the possibility that there will never be a new Dragon Ball show, but the odds of it happening within the next few years seem incredibly unlikely.

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Re: When Dragon Ball anime returns

Post by FortuneSSJ » Fri May 13, 2022 2:00 am

Before anything, I would like whenever the anime returns to have the same production quality that One Piece Wano arc or Dragon Quest Dai remake have. I don't think that's asking much for one of the biggest anime/manga franchises of all time...
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

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Re: When Dragon Ball anime returns

Post by Majin Man 101 » Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:11 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 12:38 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 11:50 am The story of Super is not naturally concluded, that's the point.
How was it not naturally concluded? What else is there? The big tournament between universes that was set up in Super's first real arc? It happened. It was finished. Yes it could continue and the manga has but there's nothing about that ending that made the series feel unfinished. There's no plot points left unfinished. All that multiverse stuff? Was just an excuse for Goku to get rock hard at the prospect of fighting strong guys from other universes. He did. Namely in the form of Hit and Jireneric. He reaffirmed his never ending ambition to get stronger. Cue diabetes inducing friends and family doing friends and family shit montage. Protag and Rival fly toward each other for a friendly sparring match because they've been re-energized in their shonen anime goals. Roll Credits.

Setting aside the narrators "We're taking a short break" line, which yeah that didn't happen, its the most conclusive a Dragon Ball anime not named GT has ever ended.

Even if we ignore the manga, there's still the Broly arc and the End of Z tournament, which should be the actual conclusion of the story started after the defeat of Majin Buu.
Why. Why does Broly need to have his movie retold in a 13 pisode arc? Did we not all collectively agree that was the worst thing ever when Super did it to Battle of Gods and Resurrection F?


And the End of Z tournament happened...at the end of Z. It doesn't need to be recreated for Super. Super is also so far removed from that epilogue anyways. Dragon Ball Super was all about God ki and fighters from other universes. The end of Z was tied to the Majin Boo arc. Goku wanted to fight Majin Boo again but not as a villain. He got his wish. The end.
Hi MasenkoHA. I always enjoy your posts as they are informative and well thought out, but this time I think I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you. There is still way too much left open at the end of The Tournament of Power for me, that it would leave a bad taste in my mouth forever if it ended there. Here are my following reasons,

1.Freeza is still out there, and the story seems to put him on a trajectory for becoming a big player in the future. Obviously, the Broly movie ends the same way with Gogeta letting him go for some unknown bad writing reason so he can continue his reign of terror across the universe.

2.Goku stating to Vegeta that he cannot tap into Ultra Instinct at will demonstrates Goku does not have mastery of his ability and shows there is much progression for Goku to still have.

3.The series went through so much trouble of introducing so many different universes, and Gods that I could hardly imagine that a show that started basing itself around the concept of the idea of a multi-verse wouldn't take the opportunity to explore those worlds/characters in the future.

I do understand the idea that some have said they are going to get by on movies alone, because overall its cheaper then producing a weekly tv series with hundreds and hundreds of episodes. But let's ask ourselves this? Are they making BIG money out of all the DB Super characters being introduced in the DB Super Manga? No, I really don't think they are, and please correct me if I'm wrong.

I think that the majority of people are into Dragon Ball for the animated content, not the manga content. They will not be able to ride the DB Super (1-131) wave forever. But who knows? I think Toei knows full well that the hunger is there for more content, but from everything I have read, they are not just able to put new Dragon Ball content out whenever they want. For some reason I think it is being controlled or contained from the very top.

We have ridden this roller coaster 1000 times already, but 2023 is coming and some big names have said it is coming, and even going to be announced in late 2022. For me, if it doesn't happen in 2023, then yes, I will become a believer that the weekly show will not come back for Super.

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Re: When Dragon Ball anime returns

Post by Jord » Sun Aug 07, 2022 3:37 am

Regardless of story, the brand doesn't need the anime in order to make a hefty profit. It's doing fine without the Super anime.
Focussing on story, there is barely any in-universe time in order to explore more, unless you want to overwrite the Z ending, which they will never do since the Z brand is way more valuable than Super. There is a reason why the biggest games that came out during Super's run, Kakarot and FighterZ were Z-branded.

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