Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

supersaiyamangod
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:37 pm

Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?

Post by supersaiyamangod » Sun May 15, 2022 7:08 pm

Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black/future trunks arc?

User avatar
ikaos
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:25 am

Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?

Post by ikaos » Sun May 15, 2022 7:22 pm

Akira Toriyama

alternatively, Toyotarou

supersaiyamangod
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:37 pm

Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?

Post by supersaiyamangod » Sun May 15, 2022 8:25 pm

ikaos wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 7:22 pm Akira Toriyama

alternatively, Toyotarou
Really I was really hoping it wasn’t him I was hoping it was someone at toei who made a bad decision. :(

jamiljamtheman
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:00 am

Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?

Post by jamiljamtheman » Sun May 15, 2022 9:29 pm

I’m pretty sure the manga’s ending to the arc was a lot different in the details than the anime’s, so it definitely wasn’t Toyataro. If it was toriyama, it must have been very high level and vague considering how different the details of the two versions are, right?

User avatar
CodeOfMe
Newbie
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:53 pm

Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?

Post by CodeOfMe » Mon May 16, 2022 12:33 am

jamiljamtheman wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 9:29 pm I’m pretty sure the manga’s ending to the arc was a lot different in the details than the anime’s, so it definitely wasn’t Toyataro. If it was toriyama, it must have been very high level and vague considering how different the details of the two versions are, right?
The ending is the same in that Zeno does in fact erase the world in both versions. While the details aren't the same, Toriyama most likely just wrote something along the lines of 'Goku gets Zeno to erase the world' or something similarly vague, but that aspect of the ending was most likely Toriyama.
Go over time and space...

User avatar
SupremeKai25
I Live Here
Posts: 4043
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:40 am

Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon May 16, 2022 6:51 am

It's not a bad ending, the foreshadowing wasn't even subtle. The hints were all there.

Literally in the first episode, Whis warns Goku that Zeno could easily erase all of existence if he wanted to.

In episode 55, when Goku is given the Zeno Button, he is yet again warned by Beerus NOT to anger Zeno and ABSOLUTELY NOT to mention the incident with Goku Black, because if Zeno became disappointed, he could wipe out all of existence.

The thing about Zamasu as a villain is that he is written to be unbeatable. He genuinely believes that he is doing the right, he is truly convinced of being the hero of his own story, so he can't be reasoned with like Piccolo, Vegeta, and the Androids. And he is Immortal, which means that he cannot be destroyed. Why would people think that a mere genkidama would be enough to destroy someone who CANNOT DIE?

Even in DBZ, the two main villains Vegeta and Frieza both wanted Immortality. It was already made clear in DBZ that such a wish would just make the villain unbeatable. Zamasu got that wish, and so by DBZ logic he would be unbeatable. A genkidama was never going to be enough to beat him.

Thematically, I have to praise Toriyama for his decision. For once we have an arc that doesn't have a happy ending. It just doesn't, because even though Zamasu is wiped out, so is the rest of the timeline. This means that all the souls of all the mortals in the afterlife are also erased. That's why Trunks cried at the end, because he failed. It's not a happy ending, and so it is a very revolutionary ending for a series like Dragon Ball, where the Dragon Balls always save the day at the end. The Dragon Balls aren't saving shit this time, the Future timeline is gone forever.

So to be honest I'll die on this hill that this ending wasn't horrible, but was actually the best ending imaginable for such an arc. Simply having the arc end with Trunks destroying Fused Zamasu would have been the "fanservice" route, but not the "good writing" route, because then:

1) All the foreshadowing about Zeno wiping out existence wouldn't have any payoff (in the ToP he didn't wipe out existence);

2) And Zamasu being immortal in the end would also just be a waste of time. What was the point of making the villain immortal if he's just going to be defeated like every mortal villain, with a big dumb attack?

TL;DR: It was Toriyama, since it's the same in both anime and manga (the manga is even more brutal by showing the Time Ring associated with the Future timeline literally blow up) and to be honest I don't know why people say it's a "horrible" ending.

This is simply the story Toriyama wanted to tell. He wanted Trunks to be a tragic hero who doesn't get a happy ending, but a bittersweet one (he gets to see all his loved ones again, but they're not really his loved ones, just alternate counterparts in a newly-created world).

User avatar
Shorty GZ2
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 287
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2022 12:22 pm
Location: Parts Unknown

Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?

Post by Shorty GZ2 » Mon May 16, 2022 7:45 am

Toriyama, with how the manga has mitosis and the anime has the sky wallpaper

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6191
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon May 16, 2022 9:08 am

Eh for all the issues I had with that arc the ending was fine. It was nice seeing a resolution that wasn't and then everyone gave their energy to insert character here and he defeated the bad guy in a single blow.

User avatar
Zephyr
I Live Here
Posts: 4019
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:20 pm

Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?

Post by Zephyr » Mon May 16, 2022 9:35 am

I thought the ending was fun.

User avatar
Cold Skin
I Live Here
Posts: 2525
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:09 pm
Location: France

Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?

Post by Cold Skin » Mon May 16, 2022 10:13 am

The ending was fine and logical, also serving the purpose of showing how dangerous Zen-o is and how he can indeed erase the whole content of a universe quite easily whenever he feels like it, which is necessary for the following arc's sense of danger.

When it is stated that Zen-o will erase losing universes, you know it is true because you've seen first hand in the previous arc that he does so without any hesitation as soon as he has the slightest reason to do so, destroying even immortal and "infinite" entities if he wishes so.

You've seen by that point that there is not a single thing in existence that can resist him and that he is more than willing to erase whole universes without a second thought. So the threat of the TOP felt very serious.

User avatar
Neo-Makaiōshin
I Live Here
Posts: 2324
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:31 pm
Location: Argentina
Contact:

Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Mon May 16, 2022 10:57 am

Manga : Toyotaro/Toriyama(?)

Anime: Atsuhiro Tomioka
Dragon Ball was always a kid series and fans should stop being in denial.

User avatar
Skar
I Live Here
Posts: 2206
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:04 pm
Location: US

Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?

Post by Skar » Mon May 16, 2022 12:55 pm

In the end, it didn't matter too much since Trunks moved to a similar timeline. Maybe he would've had existential crisis or something in a different series but he didn't really mind moving there. If they managed to seal Zamasu and kill Goku Black, Bulma and most of what was left of humanity would've remained dead. I recall the new timeline was created after Beerus killed present Zamasu so Zamasu's actions led to one timeline being destroyed only to be replaced by another that was identical.

The lasting consequence was that we saw how dangerous Zeno could be when he's upset or annoyed and that there were now two Zenos in the present timeline. I still wonder if the gods of the other universes ever figured out how that happened. I think the only time Zamasu was mentioned in the ToP was in the manga by the U10 GoD because he was upset Beerus intervened.

User avatar
FortuneSSJ
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5810
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:07 pm

Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?

Post by FortuneSSJ » Mon May 16, 2022 5:09 pm

It's not horrible, but it was Toriyama. Just like most of the controversial things we have been getting in modern Dragon Ball.
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 16491
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon May 16, 2022 9:45 pm

Zephyr wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 9:35 am I thought the ending was fun.
Me too! Trunks is that kind of character where he's been kicked so much while he's down that if he is going to get in a win than the most appropriate way of doing that is to let him do a big Power of Friendship attack.
She/Her💕 💜 💙
progesterone princess, estradiol empress
Lucifer's bimbo daughter

User avatar
Zephyr
I Live Here
Posts: 4019
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:20 pm

Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?

Post by Zephyr » Tue May 17, 2022 9:19 am

JulieYBM wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 9:45 pm
Zephyr wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 9:35 am I thought the ending was fun.
Me too! Trunks is that kind of character where he's been kicked so much while he's down that if he is going to get in a win than the most appropriate way of doing that is to let him do a big Power of Friendship attack.
That was fine too, but I meant moreso the absolute insanity that followed.

User avatar
Grimlock
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8233
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Cybertron.

Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?

Post by Grimlock » Tue May 17, 2022 9:46 am

Whoever it was, they should be fired immediately. Future Trunks saga had everything to have an ending that could impact everything going forward, but they went and chose the safest one.

"Horrible" still doesn't come close to describe accurately that ending.
Goodbye friend. You are weak, so you must be destroyed!

~ War of the Dinobots ~

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 16491
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?

Post by JulieYBM » Tue May 17, 2022 10:08 am

Zephyr wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:19 am
JulieYBM wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 9:45 pm
Zephyr wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 9:35 am I thought the ending was fun.
Me too! Trunks is that kind of character where he's been kicked so much while he's down that if he is going to get in a win than the most appropriate way of doing that is to let him do a big Power of Friendship attack.
That was fine too, but I meant moreso the absolute insanity that followed.
Oh yeah, I definitely thought it was an interesting idea to just destroy the universe via the Zen-Ou. Another interesting part was seeing Trunks and Mai have to go to another universe with another copy of themselves. It's probably not the best for a continuing series but for an ending-ending I think it's a great idea.
She/Her💕 💜 💙
progesterone princess, estradiol empress
Lucifer's bimbo daughter

User avatar
Neo-Makaiōshin
I Live Here
Posts: 2324
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:31 pm
Location: Argentina
Contact:

Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Tue May 17, 2022 10:46 am

Grimlock wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:46 am Whoever it was, they should be fired immediately. Future Trunks saga had everything to have an ending that could impact everything going forward, but they went and chose the safest one.

"Horrible" still doesn't come close to describe accurately that ending.
Erasing Trunks' timeline from existence is a safe ending :eh: ?
Dragon Ball was always a kid series and fans should stop being in denial.

User avatar
Grimlock
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8233
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Cybertron.

Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?

Post by Grimlock » Tue May 17, 2022 11:57 am

I take that by "ending" is what happens after that, which is Trunks going to live with himself. And which still is the most crap ending for a saga and for a character I've seen. I don't have any problems with what happens before that.

But then again, coming to think a bit more, it is a bit safe, yeah:
Someone wrote:Hey Trunks, your world is no more, what'chu gonna do? Live here in the present? Gonna pay for your crimes of time traveling? Oh, there's another timeline that Beerus created, wanna go and live there?
Trunks wrote:Hm, I'll take the latter, bye. :wave:
There's nothing to worry about since there's another timeline, right? Even Trunks and Mai had no problem substituting their dead ones for the alive ones from this other timeline.
Goodbye friend. You are weak, so you must be destroyed!

~ War of the Dinobots ~

supersaiyamangod
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:37 pm

Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?

Post by supersaiyamangod » Wed May 18, 2022 11:17 am

I think the best solution to this ending is use the namek dragon balls of the new timeline and have the trunks and Mai of that timeline become one with the destroyed timeline trunks and Mai.

Post Reply