Would you have preferred Resurrection F if.....

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Re: Would you have preferred Resurrection F if.....

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Fri May 20, 2022 8:29 am

Grimlock wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 10:01 am I would have preferred Movie 15 to be even better than Movie 14.
It was better than Movie 14.

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Re: Would you have preferred Resurrection F if.....

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri May 20, 2022 3:58 pm

No. I don't care enough about Vegeta to feel he's entitled to some imaginary vengeance thing.

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Re: Would you have preferred Resurrection F if.....

Post by WittyUsername » Fri May 20, 2022 8:26 pm

ObnoxiousNamek wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 6:00 am
Desassina wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 1:11 pm

I sat to watch Battle of Gods on TV, thought that I would have a good time, since it was subbed in my country, then I began wondering: how can anyone sit through so much slice of life content, or even exposition on the Gods' behalf? Resurrection of F was more accomplished in the entertainment side of things, and DBS: Broly had a more interesting story that connected to Dragon Ball Z, which is why I could sit through the lack of fights in the first half. Battle of Gods is, in my opinion, overrated, partially due to people who like to keep things consistent and sell it on the basis of DBS having sucked (i.e. Beers could have happened and nothing else until the End of Z), because Resurrection of F was basically a pitch for the series, when the former was the one trying to sell the idea of new universes to explore, but it had to be launched by its success nonetheless.
Agreed the amount of wanking Battle of Gods gets nowadays compared the the latter 2 movie from most of the fandom is so odd cause around the time it released that was not the case.
Really? As far as I can recall, the majority consensus on Kanzenshuu was that the movie was a fun reunion.

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Re: Would you have preferred Resurrection F if.....

Post by Grimlock » Fri May 20, 2022 8:34 pm

Xeno Goku Black wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 8:29 amIt was better than Movie 14.
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WittyUsername wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 8:26 pmReally? As far as I can recall, the majority consensus on Kanzenshuu was that the movie was a fun reunion.
"Really"? Of course Movie 14 wasn't wanked at the time it released, because at the time it released, there weren't two other movies for people to make comparisons in the first place. Logic would say this is the case, but you know... Asking for "logic" in 2022 is completely out of question. :roll:

The movie still is a fun reunion, and it would've been better if it weren't for Tarble OVA, which did the same five years earlier.
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Re: Would you have preferred Resurrection F if.....

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri May 20, 2022 9:02 pm

ObnoxiousNamek wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 6:00 am
Desassina wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 1:11 pm

I sat to watch Battle of Gods on TV, thought that I would have a good time, since it was subbed in my country, then I began wondering: how can anyone sit through so much slice of life content, or even exposition on the Gods' behalf? Resurrection of F was more accomplished in the entertainment side of things, and DBS: Broly had a more interesting story that connected to Dragon Ball Z, which is why I could sit through the lack of fights in the first half. Battle of Gods is, in my opinion, overrated, partially due to people who like to keep things consistent and sell it on the basis of DBS having sucked (i.e. Beers could have happened and nothing else until the End of Z), because Resurrection of F was basically a pitch for the series, when the former was the one trying to sell the idea of new universes to explore, but it had to be launched by its success nonetheless.
Agreed the amount of wanking Battle of Gods gets nowadays compared the the latter 2 movie from most of the fandom is so odd cause around the time it released that was not the case.

I can't speak for this specific forum but no when Battle of Gods came out it was pretty well received by fans overall.

Granted, you can chalk it up to OMG Dragon Ball Z is back after so many years* and its coming to theaters in a limited run! hype. But still




*Inb4 anyone says Kai and the OVA the OVA didn't leave Japan and Kai was glorified reruns

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Re: Would you have preferred Resurrection F if.....

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Fri May 20, 2022 9:17 pm

Grimlock wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 8:34 pmhttps://media3.giphy.com/media/3o7btT1T ... /giphy.gif[/img]
Battle of Gods was barely a movie. It was basically a very interesting concept that they couldn't make even an 80 minute movie from.

A good start and build up to an entertaining final battle but the middle of the movie was just padding. Antics and gags. A 15-20 minute silly Pilaf subplot. The idea of "It's been 17 years since the last movie so let's shove everyone in there at the cost of nobody but Goku having enough time to do anything".

Even Vegeta had what? One minute worth of fighting? Five seconds for Gohan?

Resurrection F may not have had as interesting a premise but at least it had a proper beginning, middle and end. It wasn't nearly as childish. Was more violent and had probably twice as much action, it felt much more in line with Dragon Ball Z's tone than Battle of Gods did.

And because they didn't have to cram every single character in it it did mean that characters like Gohan, Krillin, Piccolo, Tien and Roshi had a major fight scene for themselves, the first time in significantly long time for some of them as well.

Vegeta had more to do and for once didn't have to play as much the second fiddle role as he practically always had to.

And it was the funnier film as well and that's without resorting to silly gags.

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Re: Would you have preferred Resurrection F if.....

Post by Shorty GZ2 » Sat May 21, 2022 6:34 am

On OP's question, not really personally (since the movie is still mid and very boring to look at), but if it got people to shut up about Vegeta NEEDING a main villain kill to assuage them of his worth as a character they like, then sure they should've gone for it lmao

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Re: Would you have preferred Resurrection F if.....

Post by Zephyr » Sat May 21, 2022 10:57 am

Can't say I'd have preferred that. Goku stealing a kill from Vegeta is funny, and I like it when Dragon Ball is funny.

Gohan defeating Cell seems to have fostered in some fans the expectation that "everybody gets one", or something, not realizing that this was an outlier. Waiting eternally for "Vegeta's turn". "Maybe Vegeta will finally get his turn with Gas!"

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Re: Would you have preferred Resurrection F if.....

Post by Grimlock » Sat May 21, 2022 12:32 pm

Xeno Goku Black wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 9:17 pmBattle of Gods was barely a movie. It was basically a very interesting concept that they couldn't make even an 80 minute movie from.
But the movie is eighty five minutes. And it has an extended version.
Xeno Goku Black wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 9:17 pmA good start and build up to an entertaining final battle but the middle of the movie was just padding. Antics and gags. A 15-20 minute silly Pilaf subplot. The idea of "It's been 17 years since the last movie so let's shove everyone in there at the cost of nobody but Goku having enough time to do anything".

Even Vegeta had what? One minute worth of fighting? Five seconds for Gohan?
Well, I don't watch Dragon Ball for the fights, so that doesn't bother me. But I give you the Pilaf thing.
Xeno Goku Black wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 9:17 pmResurrection F may not have had as interesting a premise but at least it had a proper beginning, middle and end. It wasn't nearly as childish. Was more violent and had probably twice as much action, it felt much more in line with Dragon Ball Z's tone than Battle of Gods did.
What good is this movie being "more violent" and having "twice as much action" if the build up to it, all the context and the conclusion is terrible as hell?

It's Freeza again, of all people, for no other reason than fanservice. It's ugly recolors everywhere. It's a "plot" thinner than a paper about revenge for the gazillionth time. It's a movie ending right where it started. It's a movie not introducing anything interesting, coming right after one that did introduce and establish the Multiverse in the franchise. It's a movie we could skip we wouldn't be missing anything.
Xeno Goku Black wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 9:17 pmAnd because they didn't have to cram every single character in it it did mean that characters like Gohan, Krillin, Piccolo, Tien and Roshi had a major fight scene for themselves, the first time in significantly long time for some of them as well.
By "major fight scene" you mean defeating a bunch of random soldiers? Well, if that's what makes you happy, then so be it.
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Re: Would you have preferred Resurrection F if.....

Post by Peach » Sat May 21, 2022 12:40 pm

It doesn't really matter to me who gets the kill. It was interesting to see the planet get blown up though.

I would have only made a couple changes:

1. Included Abo and Kado from the Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return special as part of the Frieza Force remnants
2. Maybe made Earth's destruction something Whis couldn't rewind - which raises the stakes for the U6 tournament and the show's first season of new material

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Re: Would you have preferred Resurrection F if.....

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Sat May 21, 2022 9:09 pm

Grimlock wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 12:32 pmBut the movie is eighty five minutes. And it has an extended version.
About 5 minutes of that would be credits though. I wasn't taking into account the extended edition. Just the theatrical version that most people went to see.
It's Freeza again, of all people, for no other reason than fanservice. It's ugly recolors everywhere. It's a "plot" thinner than a paper about revenge for the gazillionth time.
But it's all fan service isn't it? Battle of Gods throwing in every single character at a party is fan service as is giving Goku a new Super Saiyan God form and that was largely a recolour. Broly was fan service because they brought him back yet again and Bardock and Gogeta. The Goku Black arc brought back the popular Trunks and Vegito. Tournament of Power brought back Android 17. This new upcoming Super Hero is bringing back the Red Ribbon Army and possibly Cell so it's all fan service.

Yeah the plot is thin. Aren't they all? Battle of Gods didn't exactly have much of a plot. Beerus wakes up "Oh there was some guy who was meant to give me a good fight, let me go find him". Beats up Goku. Then there's a whole middle section of a movie that you could easily remove until Goku comes back becomes "the guy", there's a fight and it's over.

The whole second half of Broly was just a non stop fight. Any semblance of a plot there was in the first half. Even that plot was about revenge as well.
It's a movie we could skip we wouldn't be missing anything.
Well in that regard yes Battle of Gods did do more but you couldn't really skip it because Frieza and his new found strength played a large factor in the Tournament of Power.

And again yeah Battle of Gods established the multiverse but for THAT movie did it make it any better? If they removed the line from the movie it would be no better or worse.
By "major fight scene" you mean defeating a bunch of random soldiers? Well, if that's what makes you happy, then so be it.
I mean by the standards of a movie. It was a 10 minute long action sequence. Doesn't really matter that they were only soldiers. It was more than anything Roshi did in all of Dragon Ball Z. For a character as important as Piccolo it was the most notable fight scene he had been involved in since...Android 17? Llonger for Krillin and Tien.

Compare that to the Z Fighter action scene in Battle of Gods where the Z Fighters attack Beerus and combined they get a handful of seconds of being slaughtered worse than the random soldiers.

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Re: Would you have preferred Resurrection F if.....

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun May 22, 2022 9:48 am

Xeno Goku Black wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 9:09 pm

But it's all fan service isn't it? Battle of Gods throwing in every single character at a party is fan service as is giving Goku a new Super Saiyan God form and that was largely a recolour.
We're really stretching the definition of fan service thin here. Having the cast at a party isn't fan service. Its not like they had Lunch and Oopa and Suno and Hachan there. Its the cast that was more or less still hanging around to varying degrees in the Cell and Boo saga.

Calling Goku getting a new Saiyan mode fan service is also really pushing the use of that term . If this was the first new Super Saiyan mode since it was introduced? Sure. But those dudes get new variations of Super Saiyan like its candy at the discount store.

But bringing back the most iconic series villain and then the most iconic movie villain? Yeah that's pure fanservice. I don't think that makes either movie bad on its own but it is fan service.

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Re: Would you have preferred Resurrection F if.....

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Sun May 22, 2022 10:09 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 9:48 amWe're really stretching the definition of fan service thin here. Having the cast at a party isn't fan service.
Of course it is. They served no purpose to be there. They were just there for the sake of it, adding nothing to the film. They did the same thing with the OVA a few years before it, having another reunion as a chance to get all the characters back together.

It's all just a big "Hey look there hasn't been any Dragon Ball in such a long time so here's all the characters together" fan service gimmick.
Calling Goku getting a new Saiyan mode fan service is also really pushing the use of that term. If this was the first new Super Saiyan mode since it was introduced? Sure. But those dudes get new variations of Super Saiyan like its candy at the discount store.
Transformations sell. It's what fans love and grave to see, then giving Goku a new Super Saiyan form was something they knew fans would clamour for so that's kinda fan service.

Resurrection F was the same except probably unnecessary that Goku and Vegeta needed another.

Most of Dragon Ball nowadays is fan service. SDBH is, the movies are, most the arcs are as they keep bringing back past characters. There's nothing wrong with it in particular because it's worked quite well over all.

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Re: Would you have preferred Resurrection F if.....

Post by Grimlock » Sun May 22, 2022 12:18 pm

Xeno Goku Black wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 9:09 pmBut it's all fan service isn't it? Battle of Gods throwing in every single character at a party is fan service as is giving Goku a new Super Saiyan God form and that was largely a recolour. Broly was fan service because they brought him back yet again and Bardock and Gogeta. The Goku Black arc brought back the popular Trunks and Vegito. Tournament of Power brought back Android 17. This new upcoming Super Hero is bringing back the Red Ribbon Army and possibly Cell so it's all fan service.

Yeah the plot is thin. Aren't they all? Battle of Gods didn't exactly have much of a plot. Beerus wakes up "Oh there was some guy who was meant to give me a good fight, let me go find him". Beats up Goku. Then there's a whole middle section of a movie that you could easily remove until Goku comes back becomes "the guy", there's a fight and it's over.

The whole second half of Broly was just a non stop fight. Any semblance of a plot there was in the first half. Even that plot was about revenge as well.
Look, don't get me wrong, fanservice and popularity are the primary driving force of this franchise, yes. I don't know why I used it as an argument in my last post, it's pointless. It's just that Movie 15 manages to do nothing with that.

About Movie 1, no. The flashback part planted the seed for revenge, but it was mostly things just happening. Revenge would only take the main seat once we flashed forward to the present.
Xeno Goku Black wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 9:09 pmyou couldn't really skip it because Frieza and his new found strength played a large factor in the Tournament of Power.
We learned in the Universe Survival saga that Freeza was doing "mental trainings" and due to that he "improved" his new form. If that was possible, then I'm sure if Freeza had been doing "mental trainings" all this time, we wouldn't even need Movie 15, he could have achieved a new form from that.

And honestly? I think it would be better, because we are talking about sixteen years of mental training against four months of pure nonsense.
Xeno Goku Black wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 9:09 pmAnd again yeah Battle of Gods established the multiverse but for THAT movie did it make it any better? If they removed the line from the movie it would be no better or worse.
But it does make the movie more important, along with the fact that it introduced a new deity too. Those two alone are more interesting and more important than bringing Freeza back just to have him killed in the same movie.
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Re: Would you have preferred Resurrection F if.....

Post by dva_raza » Sun May 22, 2022 1:59 pm

Xeno Goku Black wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 10:09 am
MasenkoHA wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 9:48 amWe're really stretching the definition of fan service thin here. Having the cast at a party isn't fan service.
Of course it is. They served no purpose to be there. They were just there for the sake of it, adding nothing to the film.
What does this mean? "added nothing" to the film? It added entertainment, which is the point of the film. It was one of my favorite parts from Super.

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Re: Would you have preferred Resurrection F if.....

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Mon May 23, 2022 6:50 pm

dva_raza wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 1:59 pmWhat does this mean? "added nothing" to the film? It added entertainment, which is the point of the film. It was one of my favorite parts from Super.
If that were all to it you could have an entire movie of random party antics. Just 80 minutes of silliness with no action or plot.
Grimlock wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 12:18 pmWe learned in the Universe Survival saga that Freeza was doing "mental trainings" and due to that he "improved" his new form. If that was possible, then I'm sure if Freeza had been doing "mental trainings" all this time, we wouldn't even need Movie 15, he could have achieved a new form from that.
Yeah but then why would he have been considered? Goku went with Frieza because he'd only recently fought him and saw how strong he was which is why he went and got him. Wouldn't have happened if he hadn't come back.
But it does make the movie more important, along with the fact that it introduced a new deity too. Those two alone are more interesting and more important than bringing Freeza back just to have him killed in the same movie.
Perhaps so but not better. It's just throwing something out there for the future like a Marvel after credits cameo. You could say Resurrection F did something similar with setting up Ultra Instinct later down the line.

Having Beerus and Whis yes. That introducing two new and what became popular characters is better than what Resurrection F did. However that movie did bring in Jaco who whilst not new has since become a regular character and took other existing popular characters and did something with them.

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Re: Would you have preferred Resurrection F if.....

Post by theherodjl » Mon May 23, 2022 9:16 pm

When I first saw the RoF trailer, I was under the impression that Freeza had somehow achieved God Ki and was coming to settle the score. Later, when when I found out that he had another form to boot, I expected Freeza to be on a whole nother level and require Goku & Vegeta to fuse for there to be any hope at victory.
When I saw that Freeza was barely stronger than a single SSJB even with a new, stronger form and was going to be finished off by Vegeta, I was a little disappointed.
They built up Freeza to be stronger than ever with his return possibly signaling him to be the greatest threat that the team has ever faced and then...he ended up being totally in over his head. Sure, he managed to destroy the Earth due to the complacent attitude of Vegeta but with Whis being a literal turn-back-time device as well as Beerus pledging to protect anyone standing close to him, there wasn't any feasible scenario in which Freeza could overpower or permanently kill off Goku & Vegeta. Freeza's defeat was absolutely guaranteed with no level of ambiguity so his resurrection and subsequent revenge was pretty unnecessary to the story at the time the film came out. Had it not been for the fact that Freeza would eventually be needed at the ToP, it wouldn't have mattered much if RoF never happened up until that point.
I would've much preferred that Goku & Vegeta needed fusion to finish off Freeza.
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Re: Would you have preferred Resurrection F if.....

Post by dva_raza » Tue May 24, 2022 2:47 pm

Xeno Goku Black wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 6:50 pm
dva_raza wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 1:59 pmWhat does this mean? "added nothing" to the film? It added entertainment, which is the point of the film. It was one of my favorite parts from Super.
If that were all to it you could have an entire movie of random party antics. Just 80 minutes of silliness with no action or plot.
Lol but there is action and plot. How did you miss that? It’s simply set in a relaxed and comedic scenario. Which is fresh. But if there hadn’t been tension or plot whatsoever it wouldn’t have been as fun as it was..It would’ve been like that end of buu party episode, that one has no action or plot.

theherodjl wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 9:16 pm They built up Freeza to be stronger than ever with his return possibly signaling him to be the greatest threat that the team has ever faced and then...he ended up being totally in over his head. Sure, he managed to destroy the Earth due to the complacent attitude of Vegeta but with Whis being a literal turn-back-time device as well as Beerus pledging to protect anyone standing close to him, there wasn't any feasible scenario in which Freeza could overpower or permanently kill off Goku & Vegeta. Freeza's defeat was absolutely guaranteed with no level of ambiguity so his resurrection and subsequent revenge was pretty unnecessary to the story at the time the film came out.
I thought the point was that Frieza just thought that, not that it was supposed to be true. He just trained a little for the first time and forgot that these guys have also been doing that and he just barely catched up to them. That was the twist lol.

I really wasn't expecting Whis and Beerus to interfere since they're supposed to be neutral and also I believe this was the first time Whis showed his time reversal ability. When the earth exploted and they're all standing on a piece of rock was kinda shocking.
I liked all of that, and Goku saving Vegeta lol, it was original and fun. So yeah I have no problem with the film or it's ending. Also the end credits song was cool.

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