It's definetly an improvement over being completely shafted in the 3 tournament arcs (understandably so), the Piccolo Arc, and most of the Frieza Arc (even though she had a big role in the beginning of it, crucial, even, ever since they arrive in the planet she is simply dropped and that is what i consider the only big flaw in an otherwise magnificent arc), in Super the only arc in which she was not involved was the Tournament of Power, but it has the good excuse of it happening in a completely different dimension, and it's not really a problem per se considering she had been consistently well used in previous arcs, she even got a major role in the beginning of the other Tournament Arc in Super, which is an improvement over the earlier tournaments in that regard, and let's be honest, misusing non-fighters is the least of the problems that arc has by far, compared to the rest of that shlock.MasenkoHA wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:57 amI'd say overall the writing for Bulma in Super improved from where we were in early Dragon Ball and even parts of Z.Ashur wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:01 pm Bulma is still just as good as she always was, maybe even more, in Super they've given her a lot of protagonism in spite of being all fighting arcs (especially Zamasu arc) that's even an improvement over her original DB self where in some arcs she just stayed on the background because...
Even without including her Great Saiyaman tenure, they could have her still fighting criminals in her spare time in Super without the secret identity, like she was doing when we were first introduced to her, she is the champion's daughter after all, i think Toei's usage of the character is shortsighted.
I can see how her gag is a byproduct of Toriyama's own traditional views from a japanese man born in 1955, even though i still find her funny even with a more modern worldview, simply because i think she can be seen as a parody of overly traditional people who simply follow customs without understanding them, although i'm not sure how much of that was intentional by Toriyama's part, he certainly wanted to potray the fact that she doesn't understand how those things work on a fundamental level and just copies what most of the society does, but that doesn't particularly mean that a traditional worldview is wrong, especially considering the rest of DB reinforces that belief with how it treats the other wives, but Chi-Chi herself is not a problem, that's true.
That said, even considering how blatantly traditional DB was, it ended up using female characters far better than some newer shonen, especially Naruto, at least DB has some female characters whose entire purpose doesn't revolve around a man, this is especially jarring when you consider that Naruto was actively trying to make good female characters, unlike DB, and failed miserably, i just saw someone comment how Konan is a much better character than all the women on DB, which is just yeah, sure, the lady whose entire purpose and ideology revolves around serving what a man thinks, the moment Nagato decides to destroy the world, she's okay with it and serves him, when he has a change of heart, she goes along with it, it's really weird and she has no agency at all as a character, at least even Chi-Chi has goals of her own, drive and motivation based on her own desires.
Sorry didin't mean to go on that tangent, it's just that issues like those are far more hurtful to a work's quality the more recently it is written imo, i tend to be more lenient with older works because it's a slightly different world in that aspect, and i expect social changes to be reflected over time (this is also why i'm not bothered by insipid female characters from, say Golden Age comic books, and celebrate smaller wins than in later works, like in the original Wonder Woman character from 1940, that was a massive win) , but stuff from the 2000's and onward is kind of sad to have characters that have too many gender barriers, even when the author is conscious about it, and when i consider how Dragon Ball handles it's characters, i'm amazed that it actually did better than 2000's shonen that actually tried to do better, it's absurd.
Yeah i think i understand, though i feel her character, aside from being rather insipid, might be among the more sexist from the series, as she is just the typical "hot girl who kicks ass" archetype, she's barely more than a pretty face with cool factor, and just a way for Krillin to accomplish his desire to marry.MasenkoHA wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:57 am 18 is popular because 1. One of the only female characters who could actually kick ass (and was introduced before the whole anti-sjw whining about everything is woke these days culture took over so she gets a pass from those people) 2. Hot 3. Isn't a bitch (see the venom that Chi Chi and to a lesser extent Bulma receive) she wears the pants in the relationship but but she never emasculates Kuririn or tries to push him around. Which makes her more palatable to large segments of the fandom as opposed to Caulifa.
I like 18 but yeah it unavoidable that she is ultimately Kuririn's prize for being such a fine stand up good guy. He really wanted to get married and he's just so nice and sweet so he got awarded with a hot wife.
I don't know, at least Chi-Chi is supposed to be a joke, 18 is played straight, i may have problems with how Videl is handled post-Buu, but with 18 it's the entire character, also because Krillin's conflict about killing the androids being born out of 18's beauty makes the chain of events that leads to Cell becoming Perfect feel incredibly stupid, if it was more about how the androids were actually nice people and not so much about her being hot to Krillin, it would have been understandable drama, but really it's a bad character moment for Krillin, he really just shows mercy to her because she is hot, and dooms the entire world! Come on.
In that sense, 18's character being the way she is kind of puts a stain on an otherwise solid character and the entire arc, at least if there was a solid connection between the characters beyond physical attraction, but no.
As for her wearing the pants in the relationship in a healthy way, i feel Bulma does it much better with Vegeta in Super and GT, but otherwise yeah i can see why that is a good reason to like her, it's just that the bulk of her character has too many negatives that stem from sexist characterization for me, that is why, in spite of Videl's character being turned into carboard after her marriage, at least her characterization before that was solid and not meant as a simple trophy for Gohan's desire for a woman (hell he didin't even care about that before meeting her), and those traits don't cause major narrative issues.
Yeah it's definetly faint praise, Bulma and Vegeta is created out of the blue and is forced, Krillin and 18 i already talked about how bad it is, and Goku and Chi-Chi is meant as a joke. But regardless, they are a cute couple.