Are these four main women in Dragon Ball really "just house wives"?

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6191
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Are these four main women in Dragon Ball really "just house wives"?

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:55 pm

Saiya6Cit wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:11 pm

they thought it was a good idea to include a homosexual couple kiss in the movie cause it is 2022 and that is the life style of many but the story of buzz or even toystory itself never really revolved around that. I
Ask yourself, if it was a heterosexual couple kissing would you have an issue?

I'm going to safely bet the answer is no.

, I would like for it to be preserved as a cult anime.
It's never been a cult anime. It's about as mainstream of an anime as you could possibly get.

I have always been upset with censorship, dragon ball had blood and boobs and lifted skirts and it was fine for that time.
I'm upset by censorship but think they shouldn't do things like gays and lesbians kissing.

Make it make sense.

User avatar
VegettoEX
Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
Posts: 17537
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:10 pm
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Are these four main women in Dragon Ball really "just house wives"?

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:03 pm

Appreciate the challenges being put forth on the right-wing playbook "but I'm actually being reasonable and polite about this, can't we all just get along?" nonsense.

Also:

This already isn't "real" Dragon Ball; it's twilight years sequel stuff.

Also also:

Homosexuality has long since been established to exist within THE CANNONS™ of Dragon Ball.
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::

User avatar
DemonRin
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1390
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:50 am
Location: Somewhere
Contact:

Re: Are these four main women in Dragon Ball really "just house wives"?

Post by DemonRin » Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:38 pm

VegettoEX wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:03 pmHomosexuality has long since been established to exist within THE CANNONS™ of Dragon Ball.
Honestly, ignoring the very real canon gay characters for a second, I am FAR from the only person who thinks Caulifla and Kale are HEAVILY coded gay... I'd absolutely LOVE some future thing to make it explicit.

But seriously, are there really people that think it would have been a tangible negative hit to the quality of the ToP arc had it happened exactly the same but the scenes where Caulifla affirmed she cared about Kale (including fighting while holding hands!) had included something more explicit like a quick kiss?
"FUNi should take [DBZ] out behind the woodshed, give it one last treat, then blow its f%#@$ng brains out before it attacks the baby again." ~Rocketman

kemuri07
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 999
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:09 am

Re: Are these four main women in Dragon Ball really "just house wives"?

Post by kemuri07 » Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:01 pm

Saiya6Cit wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:11 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:17 pm
Saiya6Cit wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 5:15 pm ).

Dragon ball super and ongoing movies is what we should focus on, we don't want what happned to the movie Buzzlightyear to happen to our beloved DB.
Which is?
they thought it was a good idea to include a homosexual couple kiss in the movie cause it is 2022 and that is the life style of many but the story of buzz or even toystory itself never really revolved around that. If they make a dragon ball to appeal the 2022 masses and their social constructs, it wil not be true to original dragon ball.

I don't want dragon ball to be appealing to today's standards, I would like for it to be preserved as a cult anime. I have always been upset with censorship, dragon ball had blood and boobs and lifted skirts and it was fine for that time. If they want an inclusive and up to date anime without sexism and etc, just go ahead and create a new anime instead of trying to adapt DB to these days.
I...oh my god. Oh my.

So why is it okay for heterosexual relationships to appear in DB or Toy Story but not gay ones? Like, I don't think you intentionally did this, but you pretty much laid out exactly the deal with incels and right wingers, and gamer gate is. the 2022 masses? You do know that homosexuality has always been a thing right? Like it's not as if gays and transgendered individuals magically appeared in the last 5 years.

None of what you're saying makes anysense. Is someone going to the original Dragon Ball and somehow just splicing in the gays? LIke what the hell? Also if you're making a sequel series for a "modern audience" yeah you probably should make concessions for that audience, what with you trying to profit off of them and all. Does that necessarily mean homosexual pairings? Not necessarily. But if it does, so what? A company making a legacy sequel should be forward thinking and make the product aware of when its being made and not 1985.

Like I'm sorry, but you don't get to decide to opt out of society when its convenient. You don't get to be upset just because a show is now considering other target groups besides you.

Dragon Ball is not yours
Toy Story is not yours
Star Wars is not yours
etc etc etc.

And in a time where women just had their rights taken away to decide what to do with their bodies, I don't think you get whine about how its unfair that you have to deal with "wokeness." Some of y'all are sheltered and need some real world experience.

Jord
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1455
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:13 am

Re: Are these four main women in Dragon Ball really "just house wives"?

Post by Jord » Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:58 pm

The thing with Lightyear is that it's a pro-LGBT statement from a company that's notoriously anti-LGBT but only pretends to supports LGBT fans when it can make a quick buck. That rubs people the wrong way.

DB has had gay characters before, like Mr Otokosuki who even had an arc spanning Z and GT. Never saw any anti-LGBT storylines or anything in DB.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6191
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Are these four main women in Dragon Ball really "just house wives"?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:05 pm

Jord wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:58 pm The thing with Lightyear is that it's a pro-LGBT statement from a company that's notoriously anti-LGBT but only pretends to supports LGBT fans when it can make a quick buck. That rubs people the wrong way.
Yeah but that's not where the backlash is coming from
It's conservatives mad that gays are present at all. Not people from the left criticizing Disney's wishy washy attitude on lgbt allyship

DB has had gay characters before, like Mr Otokosuki who even had an arc spanning Z and GT. Never saw any anti-LGBT storylines or anything in DB.
I'm not quite sure you know what an arc is

User avatar
Adamant
I Live Here
Posts: 3319
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 1:02 pm
Location: Viking Land

Re: Are these four main women in Dragon Ball really "just house wives"?

Post by Adamant » Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:25 pm

Spoiler: Companies are not people. They don't have opinions. Any time they publicly declare they're in support or opposition to something, it's a pr stunt to make customers associate them with an opinion they think is good.

That's why some companies will immediately dress up in rainbows during the month where you do that to "declare support" because there's money in doing so, while companies that have a big Chinese audience are less willing to do it because they'll probably lose more Chinese money from it than they'll gain non-Chinese money.
Satan wrote:Lortedrøm! Bøh slog min datter ihjel! Hvad bilder du dig ind, Bøh?! Nu kommer Super-Satan og rydder op!

User avatar
ThunderPX
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 754
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:54 pm
Location: United States

Re: Are these four main women in Dragon Ball really "just house wives"?

Post by ThunderPX » Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:56 am

Adamant wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:25 pm Spoiler: Companies are not people. They don't have opinions. Any time they publicly declare they're in support or opposition to something, it's a pr stunt to make customers associate them with an opinion they think is good.

That's why some companies will immediately dress up in rainbows during the month where you do that to "declare support" because there's money in doing so, while companies that have a big Chinese audience are less willing to do it because they'll probably lose more Chinese money from it than they'll gain non-Chinese money.
This, but at the same time companies and brands have a lot of sway in the public consciousness, so having them express support for LGBT+ people (even with cynical motivations) is still a good thing for the purpose of normalizing it.
I'm Rosie (she/her). My username is a chuuni holdover from nearly two decades ago :shock:

User avatar
Adamant
I Live Here
Posts: 3319
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 1:02 pm
Location: Viking Land

Re: Are these four main women in Dragon Ball really "just house wives"?

Post by Adamant » Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:14 pm

ThunderPX wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:56 am
Adamant wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:25 pm Spoiler: Companies are not people. They don't have opinions. Any time they publicly declare they're in support or opposition to something, it's a pr stunt to make customers associate them with an opinion they think is good.

That's why some companies will immediately dress up in rainbows during the month where you do that to "declare support" because there's money in doing so, while companies that have a big Chinese audience are less willing to do it because they'll probably lose more Chinese money from it than they'll gain non-Chinese money.
This, but at the same time companies and brands have a lot of sway in the public consciousness, so having them express support for LGBT+ people (even with cynical motivations) is still a good thing for the purpose of normalizing it.
That wasn't my point. My point was that a gigantic international company that wants to appeal to the entire world - and that INCLUDES China - is not going to be loudly proclaiming their support for something China isn't very supportive of. That's just something you'll have to live with. They'd rather one person boycott them from being "notoriously anti-LGBT" than a hundred Chinese people boycott them for the opposite.
Satan wrote:Lortedrøm! Bøh slog min datter ihjel! Hvad bilder du dig ind, Bøh?! Nu kommer Super-Satan og rydder op!

Jord
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1455
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:13 am

Re: Are these four main women in Dragon Ball really "just house wives"?

Post by Jord » Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:16 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:05 pm
Jord wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:58 pm DB has had gay characters before, like Mr Otokosuki who even had an arc spanning Z and GT. Never saw any anti-LGBT storylines or anything in DB.
I'm not quite sure you know what an arc is
Well, he appeared in the last episodes of Z, has a crush on Trunks and then showed up in GT as a Capsule Corp employee. As far as background characters go, that's quite an arc.

User avatar
Xeno Goku Black
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:29 am

Re: Are these four main women in Dragon Ball really "just house wives"?

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Tue Jul 26, 2022 7:58 pm

kemuri07 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:01 pmSo why is it okay for heterosexual relationships to appear in DB or Toy Story but not gay ones?
The heterosexual relationships have resulted in the creation of characters like Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Bra, Marron etc.

A homosexual relationship is pointless. Pretty much every single relevant heterosexual relationship has resulted in the creation of a character and aside from that they too are pointless.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6191
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Are these four main women in Dragon Ball really "just house wives"?

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:51 pm

Xeno Goku Black wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 7:58 pm
kemuri07 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:01 pmSo why is it okay for heterosexual relationships to appear in DB or Toy Story but not gay ones?
The heterosexual relationships have resulted in the creation of characters like Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Bra, Marron etc.

A homosexual relationship is pointless. Pretty much every single relevant heterosexual relationship has resulted in the creation of a character and aside from that they too are pointless.
Those are some uh interesting whistles 🐕

User avatar
Zephyr
I Live Here
Posts: 4019
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:20 pm

Re: Are these four main women in Dragon Ball really "just house wives"?

Post by Zephyr » Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:02 pm

Xeno Goku Black wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 7:58 pmA homosexual relationship is pointless. Pretty much every single relevant heterosexual relationship has resulted in the creation of a character and aside from that they too are pointless.
Aside from that and the way they interact with and bounce off of one another. Bulma & Yamcha, Goku & Chichi, Bulma & Vegeta, Krillin & 18, and Gohan & Videl have all had some fun dialogs, gags, or other sorts of dynamics with one another apart from the fact that they made babies. In the case of Bulma and Yamcha, they didn't make babies.

User avatar
Xeno Goku Black
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:29 am

Re: Are these four main women in Dragon Ball really "just house wives"?

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:54 pm

Zephyr wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:02 pmAside from that and the way they interact with and bounce off of one another. Bulma & Yamcha, Goku & Chichi, Bulma & Vegeta, Krillin & 18, and Gohan & Videl have all had some fun dialogs, gags, or other sorts of dynamics with one another apart from the fact that they made babies. In the case of Bulma and Yamcha, they didn't make babies.
Characters have that anyway, a lot of characters bounce off of other characters whether they're in a relationship or not. Bulma has gags and dynamics with Goku and Beerus and countless other examples.

Bulma and Yamcha never had babies because she ended up having a baby with Vegeta instead. Bulma and Yamcha never went anywhere. It was a gag if anything in the first arc and then was merely referred to here and there.

Relationships don't mean squat here. It's just an excuse to pit two characters together so they can make a new character out of it.

The absolute closest thing to any kind of romantic relationship in this series was Trunks and Mai.

This ain't a daytime soap.

User avatar
BeaBumby
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:51 am
Location: Wario Land
Contact:

Re: Are these four main women in Dragon Ball really "just house wives"?

Post by BeaBumby » Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:56 am

Videl and Chi-Chi specifically not doing anything really bothers me. 18 still kicks ass imo, and Bulma was never much of a fighter. But the first two do have the potential to be great fighters, yet they aren't, and I still have no idea why.
Hiya! I'm Bea :]
she/her yknow


uhhh me icon was drawn by bestest friend ever! feel free to compliment their artistic prowess!

User avatar
DBZAOTA482
Banned
Posts: 6995
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Are these four main women in Dragon Ball really "just house wives"?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:08 am

BeaBumby wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:56 am Videl and Chi-Chi specifically not doing anything really bothers me. 18 still kicks ass imo, and Bulma was never much of a fighter. But the first two do have the potential to be great fighters, yet they aren't, and I still have no idea why.
Toriyama hated drawing Chi-Chi that's probably why she never truly grew as a fighter.

Videl I feel was introduced way too late into the series. She was basically a street level fighter hanging around casual planet busters.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

Anonymous Friend
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1555
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:10 am
Location: Earth-1218
Contact:

Re: Are these four main women in Dragon Ball really "just house wives"?

Post by Anonymous Friend » Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:03 pm

BeaBumby wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:56 am Videl and Chi-Chi specifically not doing anything really bothers me. 18 still kicks ass imo, and Bulma was never much of a fighter. But the first two do have the potential to be great fighters, yet they aren't, and I still have no idea why.
Videl kicked so much ass without throwing a blow when someone tried to persuade her that her husband was cheating on her and she trusted him enough to call the liar out on their BS.
Playstation Network ID/Xbox Gamer Tag: AnonymousFriend
Wii FriendCode: 1003 3740 6652 4063

User avatar
DBZAOTA482
Banned
Posts: 6995
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Are these four main women in Dragon Ball really "just house wives"?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:02 pm

Anonymous Friend wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:03 pm
BeaBumby wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:56 am Videl and Chi-Chi specifically not doing anything really bothers me. 18 still kicks ass imo, and Bulma was never much of a fighter. But the first two do have the potential to be great fighters, yet they aren't, and I still have no idea why.
Videl kicked so much ass without throwing a blow when someone tried to persuade her that her husband was cheating on her and she trusted him enough to call the liar out on their BS.
The only time she was actually a character post-marriage.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

User avatar
Ashur
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 138
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:48 am

Re: Are these four main women in Dragon Ball really "just house wives"?

Post by Ashur » Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:01 pm

Bulma is still just as good as she always was, maybe even more, in Super they've given her a lot of protagonism in spite of being all fighting arcs (especially Zamasu arc) that's even an improvement over her original DB self where in some arcs she just stayed on the background because... Well, she can't fight, her being married to Vegeta and having kids never diminished her character (in spite of the pairing not making much sense), she was still on the same role she always had been, which one can't say the same for Videl.

Imo Videl's best characterization after the Buu fight is when she becomes Great Saiyaman 2, like in movie 13 and post-Buu filler, in GT and Super she becomes a standard housewife with not much personality, even though she has some good moments in Super.

Chi-Chi's entire character is a gag, she is an uncultured girl who follows stereotypes she reads on magazines to dictate how life "should" be, first with the marriage thing, then with Gohan getting good studies, now with getting Goku to work to provide for the family, she is funny and that's it, her being so traditional is part of the joke, there wasn't a fighter character that got turned into a random housewife like Videl, in fact being like this is perfect for the type of character that was pre-marriage Chi-Chi, it's like an extension of the joke that was her being wanting marry a guy because tapped her parts once lol.

Number 18's entire character is... kinda boring, even before getting married, she's basically just a pretty girl that makes Krillin doubt about killing the androids just because she's pretty, she feels like a "trophy wife" more than anything else, i honestly don't get why people actually like her character, her becoming a standard housewife but with some craving for money is in-line to how she was before, which is: not very good or nuanced as a character.

Overall, i'd say that 1 of them isn't "just a hosewife" and that is Bulma, 1 is but that's the joke (Chi-Chi), and 2 of them (Videl and 18) yeah, they're just that, although Videl wasn't like that before and she actually had the best romantic development with her husband.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6191
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Are these four main women in Dragon Ball really "just house wives"?

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:57 am

Ashur wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:01 pm Bulma is still just as good as she always was, maybe even more, in Super they've given her a lot of protagonism in spite of being all fighting arcs (especially Zamasu arc) that's even an improvement over her original DB self where in some arcs she just stayed on the background because...
I'd say overall the writing for Bulma in Super improved from where we were in early Dragon Ball and even parts of Z.
Imo Videl's best characterization after the Buu fight is when she becomes Great Saiyaman 2, like in movie 13 and post-Buu filler, in GT and Super she becomes a standard housewife with not much personality, even though she has some good moments in Super.
It is a shame Toei tried to do a little more with Videl than Toriyama ultimately decided on. People will try to excuse her becoming a homemaker but there really is no reason why she can't moonlight as Great Saiyaman 2 other than it wasn't Toriyama's idea.

Chi-Chi's entire character is a gag, she is an uncultured girl who follows stereotypes she reads on magazines to dictate how life "should" be, first with the marriage thing, then with Gohan getting good studies, now with getting Goku to work to provide for the family, she is funny and that's it, her being so traditional is part of the joke, there wasn't a fighter character that got turned into a random housewife like Videl, in fact being like this is perfect for the type of character that was pre-marriage Chi-Chi, it's like an extension of the joke that was her being wanting marry a guy because tapped her parts once lol.
Chi Chi is kind of a symptom of a larger issue with how women in pre-Super Dragon Ball were written than an issue in and of herself.
Number 18's entire character is... kinda boring, even before getting married, she's basically just a pretty girl that makes Krillin doubt about killing the androids just because she's pretty, she feels like a "trophy wife" more than anything else, i honestly don't get why people actually like her character, her becoming a standard housewife but with some craving for money is in-line to how she was before, which is: not very good or nuanced as a character.
18 is popular because 1. One of the only female characters who could actually kick ass (and was introduced before the whole anti-sjw whining about everything is woke these days culture took over so she gets a pass from those people) 2. Hot 3. Isn't a bitch (see the venom that Chi Chi and to a lesser extent Bulma receive) she wears the pants in the relationship but but she never emasculates Kuririn or tries to push him around. Which makes her more palatable to large segments of the fandom as opposed to Caulifa.

I like 18 but yeah it unavoidable that she is ultimately Kuririn's prize for being such a fine stand up good guy. He really wanted to get married and he's just so nice and sweet so he got awarded with a hot wife.

although Videl wasn't like that before and she actually had the best romantic development with her husband.
The fact Videl wasn't like that before is what makes it so much worse. But yes her and Gohan have the most fleshed out romance but that is practically damning with faint praise.

Post Reply