Interesting line from Piccolo about Goku in the dub; Does Goku really crave mayhem?

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Re: Interesting line from Piccolo about Goku in the dub; Does Goku really crave mayhem?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:28 am

Yes. Just look at how he treated Zamasu and harassed him like a spoiled brat because he wanted a fight. Bulma even points out that the whole mess started because Goku just wanted to "pick another fight". He is a reckless, foolish manchild with no self-control at all.

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Re: Interesting line from Piccolo about Goku in the dub; Does Goku really crave mayhem?

Post by Majin Buu » Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:38 am

No, I don't think Goku craves mayhem. That would imply that he's actively seeking to cause trouble.

That's not in line with either Toriyama's "fighting fool that isn't trying to be a hero but ends up doing good anyway" or Toei's Christ-like goody two-shoes; let alone Funimation's anime Superman. "Agent of Chaos" doesn't fit with any of those.

I think this is putting too much thought into a script change that feels like it was done simply because Funi thought it sounded better than the original line.

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Re: Interesting line from Piccolo about Goku in the dub; Does Goku really crave mayhem?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:03 am

Majin Buu wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:38 amfeels like it was done simply because Funi thought it sounded better than the original line.
Yeah, this seems like a typical case of Funimation punching up the dialogue to make it sound funnier or, in this case edgier. I doubt they thought that fans like us would look so much into it, they probably thought it would keep kids pumped for the rest of the fight with Cell.
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Re: Interesting line from Piccolo about Goku in the dub; Does Goku really crave mayhem?

Post by 90sDBZ » Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:32 am

I guess it depends on how you define mayhem. Goku hates the idea of innocent people being harmed, but might get some sort of rush from stuff like the environment getting blown to hell during a fight.

There's also a good chance he prefers a life or death battle over a friendly fight. The higher stakes surely add to the adrenaline. Goku in Super is definitely like this, as he hires Hit to kill him.

His strongest opponents tend to be the most destructive, so it can be hard to distinguish whether he just likes fighting that opponent, or also enjoys the destruction that comes with it. His line to Beerus "Stop enjoying the destruction!" would suggest the former.

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Re: Interesting line from Piccolo about Goku in the dub; Does Goku really crave mayhem?

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:59 am

90sDBZ wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:32 am

There's also a good chance he prefers a life or death battle over a friendly fight. The higher stakes surely add to the adrenaline. Goku in Super is definitely like this, as he hires Hit to kill him.
I'm pretty sure the only reason he hired Hit to kill him was so that he could fight him because that's the only way he could get Hit to fight him again. Not because the potential of dying gets Goku's rocks off.

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Re: Interesting line from Piccolo about Goku in the dub; Does Goku really crave mayhem?

Post by Majin Buu » Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:51 am

90sDBZ wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:32 amit can be hard to distinguish whether he just likes fighting that opponent, or also enjoys the destruction that comes with it.
Not really.

Piccolo Daimao blowing up the city, Piccolo Jr. blowing up the Budokai arena, Vegeta's rage quit Galick Gun, Freeza's rage quit nuking of Namek, Cell's rage quit self-destruction, Pure Buu's unprovoked destruction of Earth.

None of Goku's reactions during any of those moments hint at anything that would suggest he's actually getting off on the imminent destruction.

You can make the case that he's impressed by his opponent's display of power, but enjoying the destruction itself? No.

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Re: Interesting line from Piccolo about Goku in the dub; Does Goku really crave mayhem?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:52 pm

It was just some poorly thought out dialogue. Par of the coarse for the FUNi Z dub.
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Re: Interesting line from Piccolo about Goku in the dub; Does Goku really crave mayhem?

Post by dva_raza » Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:03 am

DBZAOTA482 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:52 pm It was just some poorly thought out dialogue. Par of the coarse for the FUNi Z dub.

Also (the in universe take) Piccolo kinda... says things sometimes...

So you can interpret that as him just saying whatever in the heat of the moment, doesn't mean it has to be taken seriously lol

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Re: Interesting line from Piccolo about Goku in the dub; Does Goku really crave mayhem?

Post by Adamant » Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:44 am

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:03 am
Majin Buu wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:38 amfeels like it was done simply because Funi thought it sounded better than the original line.
Yeah, this seems like a typical case of Funimation punching up the dialogue to make it sound funnier or, in this case edgier. I doubt they thought that fans like us would look so much into it, they probably thought it would keep kids pumped for the rest of the fight with Cell.
I mean let's be fair, Funiball taken on its own is such an Axe Cop-style mess of random characters with vaguely defined relationships constantly pulling unexplained powers and backstory out of their asses I'm pretty sure they (probably correctly) assumed their fanbase didn't really bother paying too much attention to what the characters were saying as long as they were punching each other in the face.
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Re: Interesting line from Piccolo about Goku in the dub; Does Goku really crave mayhem?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:32 am

Adamant wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:44 am I'm pretty sure they (probably correctly) assumed their fanbase didn't really bother paying too much attention to what the characters were saying as long as they were punching each other in the face.
Consider on any dub centric Dragon Ball Z forum 97 percent of the discussions are "Could X character beat Y character in a fight under these circumstances? " And "Here' my power level list. I love power levels." they were probably right.

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Re: Interesting line from Piccolo about Goku in the dub; Does Goku really crave mayhem?

Post by WittyUsername » Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:29 pm

Even Kanzenshuu isn’t exactly immune to power scaling debates. The English speaking Dragon Ball fanbase in general is obsessed with this stuff, while I would assume (correct me if I’m wrong) that Japanese fans couldn’t care less.

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Re: Interesting line from Piccolo about Goku in the dub; Does Goku really crave mayhem?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:46 pm

WittyUsername wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:29 pm Even Kanzenshuu isn’t exactly immune to power scaling debates. The English speaking Dragon Ball fanbase in general is obsessed with this stuff, while I would assume (correct me if I’m wrong) that Japanese fans couldn’t care less.
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Re: Interesting line from Piccolo about Goku in the dub; Does Goku really crave mayhem?

Post by 90sDBZ » Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:11 pm

WittyUsername wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:29 pm Even Kanzenshuu isn’t exactly immune to power scaling debates. The English speaking Dragon Ball fanbase in general is obsessed with this stuff, while I would assume (correct me if I’m wrong) that Japanese fans couldn’t care less.
I don't think there's any reason to assume there aren't Japanese fans who argue about who would beat who. Dragon Ball Heroes is huge over there after all, so obviously they care about the superficial stuff too.

It's very common for kids to argue about who would beat who in a fight, and it's in no way limited to Dragon Ball (although kids being the target audience is a factor). I remember being 8 and listening to other kids argue about Jackie Chan vs Bruce Lee, Pokemon vs Digimon, the Red Ranger vs the Green Ranger etc..

With Dragon Ball being a show for kids it's no surprise these discussions are so common. Many of the guys having these debates are now adults, but they watched the show as kids, and likely still view it through the same lens. If they still find those debates fun then there's nothing wrong with that. It's a show that most of us watched as kids, and takes us back to that simpler time when we revisit it.

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Re: Interesting line from Piccolo about Goku in the dub; Does Goku really crave mayhem?

Post by Ashur » Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:30 am

I think that, using a reasoning with the characterization they chose for Goku in the dub, Piccolo was referring to him craving mayhem to be the one who goes in and solves it, he craves finding mayhem and beating the ones causing it, as in, not only is he a hero, but he enjoys the act of being one.

There's also the fact that, in that scene, it's pretty much impossible to whitewash Goku's oddities in regards to fighting when the narrative is comparing him to the plot--stupidized Gohan who doesn't want to fight Cell, it is necessary, they can't delete something that is clearly a major part of the narrative (or they weren't creative enough to come up with some other reason Piccolo yells at Goku for his plan so they just went with the original, real dialogue).

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Re: Interesting line from Piccolo about Goku in the dub; Does Goku really crave mayhem?

Post by dva_raza » Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:30 pm

Ashur wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:30 am he craves finding mayhem and beating the ones causing it, as in, not only is he a hero, but he enjoys the act of being one.
When has that happened? Like, specifically?

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Re: Interesting line from Piccolo about Goku in the dub; Does Goku really crave mayhem?

Post by Ashur » Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:44 am

dva_raza wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:30 pm
Ashur wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:30 am he craves finding mayhem and beating the ones causing it, as in, not only is he a hero, but he enjoys the act of being one.
When has that happened? Like, specifically?
Not sure where you could apply it but that's my idea of what they were thinking with the line.

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Re: Interesting line from Piccolo about Goku in the dub; Does Goku really crave mayhem?

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:01 am

Ashur wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:44 am
dva_raza wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:30 pm
Ashur wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:30 am he craves finding mayhem and beating the ones causing it, as in, not only is he a hero, but he enjoys the act of being one.
When has that happened? Like, specifically?


Not sure where you could apply it but that's my idea of what they were thinking with the line.
Bold to assume they gave it any thought beyond "Yawn the Japanese line is too straightfoward and dull how do I make it sound badass?"

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Re: Interesting line from Piccolo about Goku in the dub; Does Goku really crave mayhem?

Post by Ashur » Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:26 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:01 am
Ashur wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:44 am
dva_raza wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:30 pm

When has that happened? Like, specifically?


Not sure where you could apply it but that's my idea of what they were thinking with the line.
Bold to assume they gave it any thought beyond "Yawn the Japanese line is too straightfoward and dull how do I make it sound badass?"
:lol: :lol: you're right, i'm giving them too much credit.

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Re: Interesting line from Piccolo about Goku in the dub; Does Goku really crave mayhem?

Post by Anonymous Friend » Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:56 pm

This is kind of like a topic I saw on the old IMDB forums for that Sandra Bullock and George Clooney movie called Gravity.

When Clooney makes his way back to Bullock after running out of air, he says he was able to do so because he had was able to sqeeze a bit more charge out of his batteries.

Poster started ouot but saying he knows it was a dream sequence, but how did he get extra charge out of his batteries if they were empty.
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Re: Interesting line from Piccolo about Goku in the dub; Does Goku really crave mayhem?

Post by 90sDBZ » Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:53 pm

Anonymous Friend wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:56 pm This is kind of like a topic I saw on the old IMDB forums for that Sandra Bullock and George Clooney movie called Gravity.

When Clooney makes his way back to Bullock after running out of air, he says he was able to do so because he had was able to sqeeze a bit more charge out of his batteries.

Poster started ouot but saying he knows it was a dream sequence, but how did he get extra charge out of his batteries if they were empty.
I don't think that analogy applies here. I've explained this already, but I wasn't trying to imply dub lines are relevant to the original version. I was just saying that the line in question happened to get me thinking about Japanese Goku's character, while also noting the line was a deviation from Funimation's typical treatment of Goku.

I probably shouldn't have mentioned the dub at all because it's obviously rubbed people the wrong way, and distracted from the main point of the topic.

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