Should Funimation have kept Dameon Clark as Gohan?

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Re: Should Funimation have kept Dameon Clark as Gohan?

Post by jjgp1112 » Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:10 am

But, like...Gohan's voice isn't even an outlier. I'd wager the vast majority of 17-year-old males sound like grown men. It's not like he's 14 here. Not only that, but he never sounded particularly "cool" besides the Mystic Gohan stuff where Gohan was deliberately trying to act smooth and confident...and he never sounded particularly heroic unless he was Great Saiyaman, in which case Gohan was trying to sound like a cheesy superhero. He just sounds like your regular average boring guy. In fact, I'd wager out of most of the voices from the original dub, he was among the most nondescript, which causes most of the posts in this thread to make me think I'm having a stroke.
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Re: Should Funimation have kept Dameon Clark as Gohan?

Post by NitroEX » Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:04 am

jjgp1112 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:10 am But, like...Gohan's voice isn't even an outlier. I'd wager the vast majority of 17-year-old males sound like grown men.
I'm not concerned with what's common outside of fiction or what people's personal anecdotes are, I've already made that clear as possible.

Throughout most animated media teenage male voices tend to skew younger for practical reasons. You need to convey that they're young and a voice is a great tool to do that along with the writing. Sometimes the character design doesn't do a good job of conveying age which makes it doubly important to find a young voice. Even something like Invincible which is geared towards adults follows this casting trend and that's just a recent example off the top of my head, Terry McGinnis in Batman Beyond is an even better example, both 17-year-old characters that unmistakably sound young and less mature than Kyle's teenage Gohan.

If you want to talk so much about commonalities, look no further than most media in the past 20+ years. You can find deeper voices prior to that in the 80s for example, but that was no longer part of the US casting trend by the mid to late 90s.
Not only that, but he never sounded particularly "cool" besides the Mystic Gohan stuff where Gohan was deliberately trying to act smooth and confident...and he never sounded particularly heroic unless he was Great Saiyaman, in which case Gohan was trying to sound like a cheesy superhero. He just sounds like your regular average boring guy. In fact, I'd wager out of most of the voices from the original dub, he was among the most nondescript, which causes most of the posts in this thread to make me think I'm having a stroke.
This is where we get into more subjective territory which never leads to anything productive so I won't bother getting dragged into the weeds of that argument. Your mileage may vary on what constitutes 'cool' or 'heroic' voices but I'm mainly basing this on trends in media.

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Re: Should Funimation have kept Dameon Clark as Gohan?

Post by 90sDBZ » Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:48 am

NitroEX wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:52 pm
90sDBZ wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 5:43 pm You literally complained that he sounds too old to be 17, and now you're saying comparing him to real life teenagers is redundant. :?
Did you not read my posts? You were bringing up anecdotal evidence to attempt to justify why Kyle sounding older is fitting for teenage Gohan... As if that has any relevance in a fictional setting or for his characterization in the story (hint: it doesn't). They cast characters using standard archetypes as a guide (typically ones that a considered voicer actor already excels at) or common generalities that everybody can understand, this isn't my opinion, it's an observable trend within media and storytelling, particularly children's media (a category which Dragon Ball falls into).

They don't cast outliers unless there's a justifiable reason for it, and in Gohan's case, there's no reason to deviate and make him sound any older unless of course the production can't find a suitable voice in the first place or was misdirected and miscast. I can't make it any clearer than that.
Someone doesn't need to have a high pitched voice to come across as an underdog, nor do they need a deep voice to be a bully. What you're describing are caricatures.
No, I'm simply describing common western tropes in voice acting that you seem either oblivious to or in denial of.
Unless I'm writing a character in direct parody of Mike Tyson or deliberately creating a comedy, I'm typically not going to cast the voice of a bully with a high-pitched actor. I don't care that it exists in real life because that's irrelevant and either distracts or undermines whatever serious story I might be trying to tell. It's common sense. And yes, I know that's an extreme example but you get the point.

But if you really disagree you can always make your case to the media and casting business and tell them how wrong they are.
Kyle Hebert nails Gohan's shy and awkward side with his delivery. He was already a standout in Z and got even better in Kai.
Hard disagree. As adult Gohan in Super or GT, he's serviceable in the role, I'll give him that. But as a teenage Gohan, his shortcomings have always been very apparent. And I've already mentioned that I think his voice works against him in regards to acting the part (the shy, nerdy stuff) it doesn't come across as genuine as it would with a different actor who more naturally possesses those traits.

If I had to guess, Barry Watson era Funi most likely cast Kyle because he has that cool hero sound to his voice. He stuck around in Kai as a legacy casting because people were already used to him but even then he wasn't perfect by any means, he was just better than his Z performance (which wasn't a high bar to achieve in the first place).
My response isn't just anecdotal though. 17 year old boys having deep voices is not only extremely common but the norm, and unless the only ones you've heard are in cartoons you should already know this.

I'd argue Hebert's Gohan having a more mature voice works because Gohan isn't your typical teenager. He's really mature for his age and dedicated to his studies to the point were he puts his classmates to shame. He's basically a Clark Kent type of character.

Terry McGinnis is a bad comparison because he's nothing like Gohan, and much more in line with your typical rebellious teenager.

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Re: Should Funimation have kept Dameon Clark as Gohan?

Post by NitroEX » Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:36 am

90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:48 am My response isn't just anecdotal though. 17 year old boys having deep voices is not only extremely common but the norm, and unless the only ones you've heard are in cartoons you should already know this.
But once again that doesn't matter, I've already responded to this same argument. Fictional casting isn't based on what's most common in day-to-day life, particularly not in animation. They cast based on their own tried and tested criteria. Pay attention to it. Also, I'll repeat what I already said and update it for clarification:
NitroEX wrote:If you want to talk so much about commonalities, look no further than most [animated] media in the past 20+ years.
I'd argue Hebert's Gohan having a more mature voice works because Gohan isn't your typical teenager. He's really mature for his age and dedicated to his studies to the point were he puts his classmates to shame. He's basically a Clark Kent type of character.
That's a backwards rationalization to make the voice fit and I don't agree he's mostly a Clark Kent type of character. Clark Kent puts on a persona, but it's only an act. He's always the level-headed mature hero underneath. He's not a teenage character either so it's not a great comparison.

Gohan's a smart bookworm but he's also naive to the world and still innocent at his core. He's not really more mature than his classmates because he's shown to be lacking in social situations due to his sheltered upbringing, never mind his immature interpretation of what constitutes a hero when he becomes Saiyaman. He's still awkward at the start of the Boo arc and has to gradually mature. His voice should reflect that he's still young, it's not only about the acting.
Terry McGinnis is a bad comparison because he's nothing like Gohan, and much more in line with your typical rebellious teenager.
You've misunderstood. I wasn't saying Gohan should have the same personality as Terry McGinnis, I'm talking strictly about the pitch and youthful sound of the voice. The argument was that he's 17 years old but I'm pointing out 17-year-old characters that are cast higher-pitched and are far more prevalent in media, it reinforces my point.

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Re: Should Funimation have kept Dameon Clark as Gohan?

Post by 90sDBZ » Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:57 pm

NitroEX wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:36 am
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:48 am My response isn't just anecdotal though. 17 year old boys having deep voices is not only extremely common but the norm, and unless the only ones you've heard are in cartoons you should already know this.
But once again that doesn't matter, I've already responded to this same argument. Fictional casting isn't based on what's most common in day-to-day life, particularly not in animation. They cast based on their own tried and tested criteria. Pay attention to it. Also, I'll repeat what I already said and update it for clarification:
NitroEX wrote:If you want to talk so much about commonalities, look no further than most [animated] media in the past 20+ years.
I'd argue Hebert's Gohan having a more mature voice works because Gohan isn't your typical teenager. He's really mature for his age and dedicated to his studies to the point were he puts his classmates to shame. He's basically a Clark Kent type of character.
That's a backwards rationalization to make the voice fit and I don't agree he's mostly a Clark Kent type of character. Clark Kent puts on a persona, but it's only an act. He's always the level-headed mature hero underneath. He's not a teenage character either so it's not a great comparison.

Gohan's a smart bookworm but he's also naive to the world and still innocent at his core. He's not really more mature than his classmates because he's shown to be lacking in social situations due to his sheltered upbringing, never mind his immature interpretation of what constitutes a hero when he becomes Saiyaman. He's still awkward at the start of the Boo arc and has to gradually mature. His voice should reflect that he's still young, it's not only about the acting.
Terry McGinnis is a bad comparison because he's nothing like Gohan, and much more in line with your typical rebellious teenager.
You've misunderstood. I wasn't saying Gohan should have the same personality as Terry McGinnis, I'm talking strictly about the pitch and youthful sound of the voice. The argument was that he's 17 years old but I'm pointing out 17-year-old characters that are cast higher-pitched and are far more prevalent in media, it reinforces my point.
You're leaning way too hard on the whole "teenage boys have to sound a certain way in animation" argument. It just comes across as arbitrary. He's a 17 year old boy, and 17 year old boys very often have deep voices in real life. It's really as simple as that.

If you were making a live action movie and were casting a teenage boy, you wouldn't turn down someone who was perfect for the role just because he sounded a little deep. If that were the case then almost no teenage boy could get cast to play a character their own age.

Even in animation there are examples of teenage boys having deeper voices. Christopher Daniel Barnes as Spiderman comes to mind.

Gohan being mature or not depends on how you define maturity. Socially speaking he's not that mature. But he's also experienced some serious shit that his classmates can scarcely imagine; being in several life or death situations, seeing friends slaughtered, and having to carry the guilt of getting his father killed. These experiences would definitely lead to a certain kind of maturity that sets him apart from his peers. He may still be young but he's also on the verge of manhood, and nothing about Kyle Hebert's performance contradicts that.

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Re: Should Funimation have kept Dameon Clark as Gohan?

Post by NitroEX » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:37 am

And you clearly don't understand or appreciate animation casting. I've already pointed out numerous times why your real-life argument has no real merit yet you've ignored it (or don't bother to read). Since there's no discussion to be had here other than a pointless back and forth I won't waste time repeating myself.

The live-action argument has no place here as we're talking about animation. Live-action casting plays by its own rules. Voice is not as important there for obvious reasons.
Even in animation there are examples of teenage boys having deeper voices. Christopher Daniel Barnes as Spiderman comes to mind.
Exceptions don't disprove the rule. And 94 Peter was specifically designed and written to be a mature university student. In later iterations, he's cast with younger voices because he's in... high school.

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Re: Should Funimation have kept Dameon Clark as Gohan?

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:02 am

NitroEX wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:37 am . ]Exceptions don't disprove the rule. And 94 Peter was specifically designed and written to be a mature university student. In later iterations, he's cast with younger voices because he's in... high school.
He's like 19 or 20 in the 94 cartoon. That's not much older than Gohan in the Buu saga.

Also go figure the dude who played a high school junior Peter in that Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon was 8 years older than Christopher Daniel Barnes when he played a college sophomore Peter in the 94 cartoon

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Re: Should Funimation have kept Dameon Clark as Gohan?

Post by NitroEX » Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:02 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:02 am He's like 19 or 20 in the 94 cartoon. That's not much older than Gohan in the Buu saga.
This misses the point I've already made and I really can't be bothered going over the same thing again.

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Re: Should Funimation have kept Dameon Clark as Gohan?

Post by jjgp1112 » Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:04 am

NitroEX wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:02 am
MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:02 am He's like 19 or 20 in the 94 cartoon. That's not much older than Gohan in the Buu saga.
This misses the point I've already made and I really can't be bothered going over the same thing again.
The problem is your criteria is incredibly arbitrary and you've gone back and forth from "unrealistic" to "too realistic." The actual sound of his voice is a superficial way of showing youth if that's the only criteria you're going with. There's no one singular approach to this stuff.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
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Re: Should Funimation have kept Dameon Clark as Gohan?

Post by NitroEX » Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:42 pm

jjgp1112 wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:04 am The problem is your criteria is incredibly arbitrary and you've gone back and forth from "unrealistic" to "too realistic."
I don't see how that second bit applies to me since I wasn't arguing for realism.

But your first criticism is ironic to me considering the actual arbitrary argument in this thread is the one about day-to-day life experiences dictating casting. There's little rhyme or reason to that method beyond individual subjective whims and preferences whereas the actual industry casts with purpose and some semblance of rules in order to minimize as much subjectivity as possible to the average viewer. Sure, there are deviations, it's not a binary system, but it's prevalent enough to where we can all recognize the tropes in our media and recognize when it's not there.

In adult animated media you've got more leeway to break rules (usually for subversive effect) but in kids' media? You best believe it's the standard, and you casting that young high school protagonist with a mature voice because "well, I knew guys who sounded like that in high school" is only needlessly throwing a wrench in the works and showing you have no regard for the product being made, or simply misunderstand the material, particularly if that character has not been designed and written with a mature voice in mind.
The actual sound of his voice is a superficial way of showing youth if that's the only criteria you're going with. There's no one singular approach to this stuff.
I'm aware you can use both acting and casting to achieve the goal of conveying a character. I've not argued for one over the other because they're both useful, in fact, I'm pretty sure I've argued for both at different times in this thread when people have brought up various retorts. I really don't see where the confusion comes from in regards to that.

Honestly, most of you guys just come across as fanatics who can't handle a difference of opinion. I've pointed out what's already prevalent in animated media but because it happens to go against the status quo in English Dragon Ball, you lose your minds. You could have ignored my perspective on it but because it got under your skin that bad, it kind of says something.

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Re: Should Funimation have kept Dameon Clark as Gohan?

Post by jjgp1112 » Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:14 pm

NitroEX wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:42 pm

Honestly, most of you guys just come across as fanatics who can't handle a difference of opinion. I've pointed out what's already prevalent in animated media but because it happens to go against the status quo in English Dragon Ball, you lose your minds. You could have ignored my perspective on it but because it got under your skin that bad, it kind of says something.
Oh, brother :roll: :lol: . Neither I nor Masenko are the guys to pull the "dub stans who need to watch more media" cards on but carry on.

Nobody's offended here buddy, but the fact that you decided to take it there makes me think it's the other way...
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Re: Should Funimation have kept Dameon Clark as Gohan?

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:58 pm

NitroEX wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:42 pm
But your first criticism is ironic to me considering the actual arbitrary argument in this thread is the one about day-to-day life experiences dictating casting.
"I don't have a problem with Hebert's Gohan because I know actual 17 year olds that sound like that", which is what Jjgp and 90sDBZ are arguing, isn't abritary in the slightest.
There's little rhyme or reason to that method beyond individual subjective whims and preferences whereas the actual industry casts with purpose and some semblance of rules in order to minimize as much subjectivity as possible to the average viewer.
There's no rule to this though. Like, there is no Holy Bible dictating how certain voices should sound. I think Swaile was a much better sounding Gohan for having a more youthful energy to him but there's no imaginary laws on voice acting outside the one that exist in your head. Cartoons will have little boys with full on adult male voices for god sake. We're also talking about a production where the younger version of Hebert's character sounded like he started smoking 12 packs a day at the age of 5.



In adult animated media you've got more leeway to break rules (usually for subversive effect) but in kids' media? You best believe it's the standard, and you casting that young high school protagonist with a mature voice because "well, I knew guys who sounded like that in high school" is only needlessly throwing a wrench in the works and showing you have no regard for the product being made, or simply misunderstand the material, particularly if that character has not been designed and written with a mature voice in mind.
But Gohan IS supposed to be mature so you can sure as hell make the argument that a deeper sounding voice is more appropriate for him than Goku at a similar age.

Also could you get any more pretentious? " only needlessly throwing a wrench in the works and showing you have no regard for the product being made, or simply misunderstand the material" Its a 90s kids cartoon, not a priceless work of art.

They like his voice fine, they gave their reasons why it didn't bother them. They're not disregarding anything.


The actual sound of his voice is a superficial way of showing youth if that's the only criteria you're going with. There's no one singular approach to this stuff.
Honestly, most of you guys just come across as fanatics who can't handle a difference of opinion.
Some self awareness would do you good.

I've pointed out what's already prevalent in animated media but because it happens to go against the status quo in English Dragon Ball, you lose your minds. You could have ignored my perspective on it but because it got under your skin that bad, it kind of says something.
Disagreeing with you =/= getting under their skin.

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Re: Should Funimation have kept Dameon Clark as Gohan?

Post by NitroEX » Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:08 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:58 pm "I don't have a problem with Hebert's Gohan because I know actual 17 year olds that sound like that", which is what Jjgp and 90sDBZ are arguing, isn't arbitrary in the slightest.
Firstly, I don't have a problem with them liking Kyle Hebert's Gohan, it's the arguing for Kyle Hebert as a perfect pitch and casting that I take issue with.

Let's define arbitrary:
based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
There is no system behind "I know actual 17 year olds that sound like that". You're not even casting with the character in mind at that point, your casting is simply based on realism which... Is fine for certain projects that were designed to sound that way, but for most mass consumption kids animated media? You're needlessly rolling the dice on something you could otherwise be certain about. They cast these types of characters in abundance, they know how they usually sound and they have actors who tend to play those kinds of roles. Basically, there's a system in place there that we're all familiar with.

For the last time. Unless you specifically created a high school character to have a deeper or mature voice, there's little reason to actively pursue that as your ideal casting. If you have no other options then sure, you're going to settle for what you have.

You can like a voice on a personal level and justify it in your own mind but that does not make it the professional standard that's being observed.

Nothing I have said here is outrageous in the slightest.
There's no rule to this though. Like, there is no Holy Bible dictating how certain voices should sound. I think Swaile was a much better sounding Gohan for having a more youthful energy to him but there's no imaginary laws on voice acting outside the one that exist in your head.
Nobody is claiming there's a holy bible, but there is an observable trend in casting. Observing that trend and pointing it out does not mean it exists in my head. You're displaying a lack of understanding.
Cartoons will have little boys with full on adult male voices for god sake.
Wow, exceptions again? I'm having deja vu here.
We're also talking about a production where the younger version of Hebert's character sounded like he started smoking 12 packs a day at the age of 5.
I'm aware, it's almost like their casting process wasn't up to par or something... :eh:
But Gohan IS supposed to be mature so you can sure as hell make the argument that a deeper sounding voice is more appropriate for him than Goku at a similar age.
More mature than Goku? Yes.

Mature overall? Not at that point in the story. He's written as naive, awkward and still liking immature things. Just because he has a character arc where he later becomes mature doesn't mean you cast based on that endpoint.

You cast based on what he is at the beginning of the story to better illustrate what he's maturing from. The actor can then act more mature according to the needs of the character and there you go. It's common sense.

Having a lighter voice will not detract from Gohan once he is mature, the difference in acting makes up for it by that point.

Can you do it in reverse? of course! But the writing of the character and the context should inform and aid the casting, not the opposite.
Also could you get any more pretentious? " only needlessly throwing a wrench in the works and showing you have no regard for the product being made, or simply misunderstand the material" Its a 90s kids cartoon, not a priceless work of art.
By all means, have your laissez-faire attitude, but don't then claim to be an authority on who should be cast in what. By that point, you've basically admitted you have no standards for this. Pick a lane and stick to it.
Some self awareness would do you good.
Some better understanding might do you good. You and others have already misinterpreted what I've said here without actually bothering to understand the point. I've never taken issue with people disagreeing with me, but if you want to twist what I said and turn it into something completely different to create a strawman argument I'm more likely to speak up about that.

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Re: Should Funimation have kept Dameon Clark as Gohan?

Post by 90sDBZ » Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:18 pm

NitroEX wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:08 pm There is no system behind "I know actual 17 year olds that sound like that".
No system? How about basic realism? Again you're putting way too much importance on this idea that all teenage boys in cartoons need to sound alike. Even if that is the standard it doesn't mean it always needs to be conformed to. Casting a realistic voice for a character of a certain age isn't suddenly going to turn people off. Why on earth would it?

The deep voice also fits Gohan's Saiyaman persona, because he's based on old fashioned superheroes with over the top cheesy dialogue. He's convincing as a nerdy hero who lacks the self awareness to know he looks silly.
You're not even casting with the character in mind at that point, your casting is simply based on realism which... Is fine for certain projects that were designed to sound that way, but for most mass consumption kids animated media? You're needlessly rolling the dice on something you could otherwise be certain about. They cast these types of characters in abundance, they know how they usually sound and they have actors who tend to play those kinds of roles. Basically, there's a system in place there that we're all familiar with.
Can you elaborate on how casting a realistic voice is "rolling the dice"? It's worth noting that anime casting often is more based in realism than the over the top voices of other cartoons.
Mature overall? Not at that point in the story. He's written as naive, awkward and still liking immature things. Just because he has a character arc where he later becomes mature doesn't mean you cast based on that endpoint.
You're fixating on the superficial side of his character. Like I mentioned earlier he'd already been through much more in his life than many adults. He's unaccustomed to social norms but is mature in many more significant ways; he's survived alone in the wilderness, he's experienced the pain of loss, he's learned to overcome his fear for the sake of others, he knows that certain people are irredeemably evil, and he knows the meaning of true sacrifice. And he's been the man of the house for 7 years and is seeking education to do right by his widowed mother. If you honestly think he's immature then I don't think we're watching the same show.

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Re: Should Funimation have kept Dameon Clark as Gohan?

Post by SorikaiWolf89 » Thu Jun 30, 2022 1:16 am

Peach wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:55 pm Dameon Clark voiced Future Gohan in the History of Trunks special.

When the company got to dubbing the Buu saga, they didn't keep Dameon for some reason. Instead going with Kyle Hebert as the older Gohan.

Here are clips of Dameon as Gohan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OysRIQRdtPQ


Do you prefer Kyle Hebert? Or do you wish they would have kept Dameon for Present Gohan?

I've always found Kyle Hebert a little awkward as Gohan at times.
I think Dameon Clark did a good job for future Gohan’s more serious lines but not as good at his casual lines when he was talking with Trunks or Bulma as it sounded somewhat forced and kinda awkward especially his “Yes” line when answering a question from future Bulma and pretty much all his lines when they were having dinner together except maybe the “chew attack!” line sounded very enthusiastic

Whereas Kyle Herbert sounds good to me all around with the serious lines, casual lines, and goofy lines

He legit sounds like a high school/college age young adult man despise being a middle aged man who has a naturally much more gruff sounding and deeper voice now that’s some talent right there !

I especially love his darker tone when he gets serious with the epic and classic line
“Fight you? No, I’ve come to kill you.”

Kyle Herbert has a very good range as like I said he can make Gohan higher pitched yet not too high with his goofy/reactive lines when he’s dealing with high school drama for example, he can sound dark/serious with a deeper tone, he can sound like a cheesy over the top superhero, and he can also sound like a movie trailer narrator

So overall I’d say it was a good switch to cast Dameon Clark as Cell as his voice sounds perfect for a villain like him
But I do enjoy his future Gohan’s serious lines for the most part as he sounds more serious rougher and darker when he needs to be

However I find Cell especially Perfect Cell to suit him better for sure

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Re: Should Funimation have kept Dameon Clark as Gohan?

Post by NitroEX » Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:36 am

90sDBZ wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:18 pm No system? How about basic realism? Again you're putting way too much importance on this idea that all teenage boys in cartoons need to sound alike. Even if that is the standard it doesn't mean it always needs to be conformed to. Casting a realistic voice for a character of a certain age isn't suddenly going to turn people off. Why on earth would it?
You're just repeating yourself. You clearly can't be bothered to read and consider responses to this argument so there's no point in me going in circles
The deep voice also fits Gohan's Saiyaman persona, because he's based on old fashioned superheroes with over the top cheesy dialogue.
Gohan's Saiyaman persona is not the focus of the story nor is it his entire character. It's played largely as a gag and plot device. When it's no longer of use to the story, it's quickly abandoned. No one in their right mind would be casting Gohan's voice to suit the Saiyaman persona.

A higher-pitched voice actor can deepen their voice to portray Saiyaman very easily, in fact, it's funnier that way if the delivery and direction makes it obvious that he's putting on a voice.
Can you elaborate on how casting a realistic voice is "rolling the dice"? It's worth noting that anime casting often is more based in realism than the over the top voices of other cartoons.
What you and I consider realistic teenage voices can vary depending on our experiences, but we all have the same frame of reference for youthful/teenage voices in animation. There's less room for misinterpretation if the design doesn't properly convey age, and an older-sounding voice (realistic or not) would naturally go against conveying a character as youthful. It's not real life where you're at the mercy of someone's voice breaking and sounding way older than they are, you have a casting process to filter out voices least appropriate for the material and find one that's best to convey the tone and characterisation you need for the story.

Again, I feel I've already explained this in about three different ways already.

In regards to anime voices, you need to be more specific because I don't agree with that observation. Anime dubs have their own exclusive voice tropes but there's crossover with western animation that doesn't fall into straight realism, especially if you're looking at kids' anime and cartoons.

There's Seinen anime like Ghost in the Shell which has more subdued voice acting and is noticeably more realistic and mature in the types of voices cast, but Dragon Ball doesn't fall into that category. You'd need to be more specific as anime isn't a genre.
You're fixating on the superficial side of his character. Like I mentioned earlier he'd already been through much more in his life than many adults. He's unaccustomed to social norms but is mature in many more significant ways; he's survived alone in the wilderness, he's experienced the pain of loss, he's learned to overcome his fear for the sake of others, he knows that certain people are irredeemably evil, and he knows the meaning of true sacrifice.
I understand all of that, but what you fail to understand is that Dragon Ball is not a serious drama. None of his harrowing past experiences are going to be dwelled on and leave an impression on him like they would in a more mature series. Regardless of what happened to him, he's still being written as an optimistic young hero who's awkward and a little naive. The creator is not signalling to you at the beginning of the Boo arc that he's fully mature, it's telling you that he still has room to improve by showing you his shortcomings. A lot of Dragon Ball undermines its own seriousness constantly and it uses Gohan's awkwardness to that effect.
And he's been the man of the house for 7 years and is seeking education to do right by his widowed mother. If you honestly think he's immature then I don't think we're watching the same show.
Being well-behaved and a good student doesn't automatically equate to being a fully mature person. And you're making it sound as though he made some big sacrifice by going to school when really he was just doing what he was being told up until that point.

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Re: Should Funimation have kept Dameon Clark as Gohan?

Post by SorikaiWolf89 » Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:22 pm

I've always liked Kyle Hebert's Gohan, because he nails both his awkward and confident sides. His "No, I wanna kill you" line to Super Buu is a classic.


My thoughts exactly !
Kyle Herbert has a very good range for Gohan sounding youthful , innocent , and awkward/dorky to sounding like a cheesy superhero , and to making Gohan sound like a serious badass when when he fights as Ultimate Gohan


Dameon Clarke did a solid job as the battle hardened Future Gohan, but I'm not sure he'd be as suited to the nerdier Buu arc Gohan. I'd have to hear him attempt it to know for sure though.
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Agreed , he did a very good job at making him sound more battle hardened , more serious, with a deeper and darker tone but wasn’t as good at portraying the more casual and lighthearted lines when he was in casual conversation with Trunks and Bulma

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Re: Should Funimation have kept Dameon Clark as Gohan?

Post by SorikaiWolf89 » Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:10 pm

Gohan being mature or not depends on how you define maturity. Socially speaking he's not that mature. But he's also experienced some serious shit that his classmates can scarcely imagine; being in several life or death situations, seeing friends slaughtered, and having to carry the guilt of getting his father killed. These experiences would definitely lead to a certain kind of maturity that sets him apart from his peers. He may still be young but he's also on the verge of manhood, and nothing about Kyle Hebert's performance contradicts that.
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Very true
Traumatic personal experiences will definitely make someone more mature in a way and all that trauma happened when he was still a child/preteen which for most people would leave a serious impact on them and might even lead to PTSD

He’s by FAR no ordinary 17 year old compared to his classmates that’s for sure not just bc he’s a super human to them but bc he’s basically experienced half a lifetime of adventures and battles all before he reached adulthood
The stories he could tell on his time on Namek alone would flabbergast the average person

And him becoming a young adult adds even more to his maturity as those events shaped his character to a certain degree and will easily stay with him for life

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Re: Should Funimation have kept Dameon Clark as Gohan?

Post by NitroEX » Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:00 am

Gohan experiencing PTSD and dwelling on his father's death in the Boo arc is all headcanon stuff btw, and you shouldn't fall into the trap of treating him like a real person. It's not how Toriyama chose to write Gohan in that arc. Instead, he's portrayed as an optimistic teenager which, you could argue isn't realistic given his childhood but it is what it is. Dragon Ball isn't a realistic series and it was made with kids in mind.

I've argued in the past that more emotional conflict would have made for a better Gohan (and a better Boo arc) but that's an entirely different argument for a seperate thread, not this one.

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Re: Should Funimation have kept Dameon Clark as Gohan?

Post by SorikaiWolf89 » Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:51 pm

NitroEX wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:00 am Gohan experiencing PTSD and dwelling on his father's death in the Boo arc is all headcanon stuff btw, and you shouldn't fall into the trap of treating him like a real person. It's not how Toriyama chose to write Gohan in that arc. Instead, he's portrayed as an optimistic teenager which, you could argue isn't realistic given his childhood but it is what it is. Dragon Ball isn't a realistic series and it was made with kids in mind.

I've argued in the past that more emotional conflict would have made for a better Gohan (and a better Boo arc) but that's an entirely different argument for a seperate thread, not this one.
I didn’t quite say he had PTSD just that his personal traumatic experiences could possibly lead to PTSD in the average person in the DB verse or otherwise is what I meant

I know he’s not written to be like a real person just to simulate one of a stereotypical heroic type character but in a much simpler form

He’s written to have complex emotions but not QUITE as complex as real life as far as we know and has a personality that would probably be the ideal personality of a pure hearted saint like person in real life but that personality would be considered to be “too unrealistic” as I’m aware that to have a Saint like personality would be exceptionally rare in the real world

However it is not entirely impossible as many hundreds of real world Saints have existed since Biblical Times but that is not the topic of conversation here just an example

Anyway Gohan is not perfect nor are saints as they are only human at the end of the day but as far as the ideal humble and pure hearted person go they are pretty close compared to the average person

And I’m saying IF Gohan was a real person which of course I know he isn’t

I mean even in the DB Verse Gohan is exceptionally good/pure hearted so he might as well be a saint in his verse

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