Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

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dultimate02
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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by dultimate02 » Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:09 am

I would love for the 3 original series to get a proper remaster. It's worth noting though that 16mm film is equivalent to around a 2k resolution. Once you start scanning the film at a higher resolution than that, the grain will be even more noticeable and pretty aggressive from what I understand about film. A 1080p resolution is what's likely anyway if they were to release a remaster of the 3 series

I would love for Toei to remaster all 3 shows in a crisp 1080p but I am so sure that they never will. I've come to that acceptance. As mentioned in this thread, the series was made with the intention of entertaining and selling toys to Japanese kids in the 80s and 90s. That's all it was ever meant to do. They didn't care about preservation in the slightest. The Super anime and manga are the big thing out right now, along with the promotional anime and card game, Super Dragon Ball Heroes. It's a guarantee that all the companies involved like Bandia and Shueisha are making more than enough to profit off the series.

Releasing an HD remaster of all the episodes of the series would be fantastic but I'm afraid that time has passed. I would love to be wrong. I would love for Toei to release a beautiful box set, but physical media is dying out. Even if they did release the box set, the film colors would have deteriorated to such a high degree and I doubt they'd attempt any color correction. Even with the recent remasters that they did on all the classic DB and DBZ movies, the colors were really bad due to degradation. The original Dragon Box's colors were also bad back in the early 2000s when those came out, so just imagine how worse they've gotten over the last 20 years.

Then there's also the censorship that would definitely be a thing due to how different Japan is culturally now compared to back then.

Maybe within the next 10 years but I say that with a ton of doubt.
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Majin Man 101
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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by Majin Man 101 » Wed Aug 03, 2022 1:32 pm

dultimate02 wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:09 am I would love for the 3 original series to get a proper remaster. It's worth noting though that 16mm film is equivalent to around a 2k resolution. Once you start scanning the film at a higher resolution than that, the grain will be even more noticeable and pretty aggressive from what I understand about film. A 1080p resolution is what's likely anyway if they were to release a remaster of the 3 series

I would love for Toei to remaster all 3 shows in a crisp 1080p but I am so sure that they never will. I've come to that acceptance. As mentioned in this thread, the series was made with the intention of entertaining and selling toys to Japanese kids in the 80s and 90s. That's all it was ever meant to do. They didn't care about preservation in the slightest. The Super anime and manga are the big thing out right now, along with the promotional anime and card game, Super Dragon Ball Heroes. It's a guarantee that all the companies involved like Bandia and Shueisha are making more than enough to profit off the series.

Releasing an HD remaster of all the episodes of the series would be fantastic but I'm afraid that time has passed. I would love to be wrong. I would love for Toei to release a beautiful box set, but physical media is dying out. Even if they did release the box set, the film colors would have deteriorated to such a high degree and I doubt they'd attempt any color correction. Even with the recent remasters that they did on all the classic DB and DBZ movies, the colors were really bad due to degradation. The original Dragon Box's colors were also bad back in the early 2000s when those came out, so just imagine how worse they've gotten over the last 20 years.

Then there's also the censorship that would definitely be a thing due to how different Japan is culturally now compared to back then.

Maybe within the next 10 years but I say that with a ton of doubt.
It's only a matter of time before the old guard are replaced at Toei. Of all of the people that work on this stuff, I am sure that there has to be at least one influential voice there who has any kind of sense about this stuff, and the money that they are missing out on. Even if Toei charged $1000.00 for a complete series boxset remaster, I guarantee you it would sell out in under a day. The hardcore fans are out there in the tens if not hundreds of thousands and would be willing to buy such a set. Toei is missing out on big $ by not putting out this beloved series.

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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by ikaos » Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:31 pm

DBZ has already been "remastered", in Japan it's called Kai, in America it was "remastered" for the FUNi BDs. Both of these came from new film scans. Regardless of how shitty they are, people bought and are still buying the FUNi BDs so there is no incentive to release any other kind of remaster.

Dragon Ball and GT could theoretically get a new scan and therefore a remaster, however there is no incentive to do so as there is little demand. "HD" has been a thing for over 15 years now, if it made financial sense to do so, then Toei would have done it. FUNi apparently cared so little about their DB film that they somehow lost track of a bunch of episodes which ended up in the hands of the public. FUNi never received film for GT so they can never do a remaster for that.

Toei did remaster the TV specials, but those are rife with problems, from green tint in the Trunks Special, to liberal use of DNR, to general crushed blacks. The movies suffer from the same problems. It's likely at this point that Toei's original negatives have degraded to a point where the color data will be even worse than the Dragon Boxes.

The predominant focus is on newer content and streaming. You have to remember that the people here who would actually buy DB or GT again are an incredibly small portion of the actual fanbase. Most people, even those who might know better, will simply watch Z on Crunchyroll because it's easier, and others talked themselves into getting the 30th Anniversary or Spanish Selecta Vision sets because "it's better than nothing".

So no, if I'm a company with the current state of things, I would have no interest in cranking out proper remasters for the classic shows. And ultimately, that's what drives business decisions.

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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by Majin Man 101 » Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:14 pm

ikaos wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:31 pm DBZ has already been "remastered", in Japan it's called Kai, in America it was "remastered" for the FUNi BDs. Both of these came from new film scans. Regardless of how shitty they are, people bought and are still buying the FUNi BDs so there is no incentive to release any other kind of remaster.

Dragon Ball and GT could theoretically get a new scan and therefore a remaster, however there is no incentive to do so as there is little demand. "HD" has been a thing for over 15 years now, if it made financial sense to do so, then Toei would have done it. FUNi apparently cared so little about their DB film that they somehow lost track of a bunch of episodes which ended up in the hands of the public. FUNi never received film for GT so they can never do a remaster for that.

Toei did remaster the TV specials, but those are rife with problems, from green tint in the Trunks Special, to liberal use of DNR, to general crushed blacks. The movies suffer from the same problems. It's likely at this point that Toei's original negatives have degraded to a point where the color data will be even worse than the Dragon Boxes.

The predominant focus is on newer content and streaming. You have to remember that the people here who would actually buy DB or GT again are an incredibly small portion of the actual fanbase. Most people, even those who might know better, will simply watch Z on Crunchyroll because it's easier, and others talked themselves into getting the 30th Anniversary or Spanish Selecta Vision sets because "it's better than nothing".

So no, if I'm a company with the current state of things, I would have no interest in cranking out proper remasters for the classic shows. And ultimately, that's what drives business decisions.
I fear that you could be right about this. I just cannot fathom in my mind how all of these anime classics, and even cult classics have received the proper HD treatment, and the #1 money making anime franchise in the world has to sit there and be subject to this bad level of treatment. It’s heartbreaking that the license holders and creators of this show have 0 respect for what made them what they are today. Movies that can’t even be called cult classics are getting 4K HDR restorations and the original run of Dragon Ball can’t even get the HD treatment. It’s such a disgrace.

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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by ikaos » Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:36 pm

Majin Man 101 wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:14 pm I fear that you could be right about this. I just cannot fathom in my mind how all of these anime classics, and even cult classics have received the proper HD treatment, and the #1 money making anime franchise in the world has to sit there and be subject to this bad level of treatment.
You just said the reason. It makes money regardless. There is no reason to invest money into a proper restoration when most DB fans don't give a shit about the quality of the release (or of the content itself considering Super's popularity).

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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Wed Aug 03, 2022 7:00 pm

Majin Man 101 wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:14 pm
ikaos wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:31 pm DBZ has already been "remastered", in Japan it's called Kai, in America it was "remastered" for the FUNi BDs. Both of these came from new film scans. Regardless of how shitty they are, people bought and are still buying the FUNi BDs so there is no incentive to release any other kind of remaster.

Dragon Ball and GT could theoretically get a new scan and therefore a remaster, however there is no incentive to do so as there is little demand. "HD" has been a thing for over 15 years now, if it made financial sense to do so, then Toei would have done it. FUNi apparently cared so little about their DB film that they somehow lost track of a bunch of episodes which ended up in the hands of the public. FUNi never received film for GT so they can never do a remaster for that.

Toei did remaster the TV specials, but those are rife with problems, from green tint in the Trunks Special, to liberal use of DNR, to general crushed blacks. The movies suffer from the same problems. It's likely at this point that Toei's original negatives have degraded to a point where the color data will be even worse than the Dragon Boxes.

The predominant focus is on newer content and streaming. You have to remember that the people here who would actually buy DB or GT again are an incredibly small portion of the actual fanbase. Most people, even those who might know better, will simply watch Z on Crunchyroll because it's easier, and others talked themselves into getting the 30th Anniversary or Spanish Selecta Vision sets because "it's better than nothing".

So no, if I'm a company with the current state of things, I would have no interest in cranking out proper remasters for the classic shows. And ultimately, that's what drives business decisions.
I fear that you could be right about this. I just cannot fathom in my mind how all of these anime classics, and even cult classics have received the proper HD treatment, and the #1 money making anime franchise in the world has to sit there and be subject to this bad level of treatment. It’s heartbreaking that the license holders and creators of this show have 0 respect for what made them what they are today. Movies that can’t even be called cult classics are getting 4K HDR restorations and the original run of Dragon Ball can’t even get the HD treatment. It’s such a disgrace.
Worth noting Dragon Ball isn't the only classic IP with a less-than-stellar track record on home video. Terminator 2 has been cursed with several DNR smearfests, even the recent 4K, which was probably the last chance for it to get a good transfer. Buffy the Vampire Slayer still hasn't been released on Blu-Ray, and even the existing HD remaster has framing issues across the board in both cropping and expanding the picture.

As has been said the series will likely be released again (or just Z at the very least), but since most fans are satisfied with how the existing releases look its unlikely Funimation/Crunchyroll will do much to improve on what's come before when only a loud minority will care.
Do you have any info about international non-English broadcasts about the Dragon Ball anime or manga translations/editions? Please message me. Researching for a future book with Dragon Ball scholar Derek Padula :thumbup:

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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by Inkei9001 » Wed Aug 03, 2022 7:17 pm

Majin Man 101 wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:14 pm
ikaos wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:31 pm DBZ has already been "remastered", in Japan it's called Kai, in America it was "remastered" for the FUNi BDs. Both of these came from new film scans. Regardless of how shitty they are, people bought and are still buying the FUNi BDs so there is no incentive to release any other kind of remaster.

Dragon Ball and GT could theoretically get a new scan and therefore a remaster, however there is no incentive to do so as there is little demand. "HD" has been a thing for over 15 years now, if it made financial sense to do so, then Toei would have done it. FUNi apparently cared so little about their DB film that they somehow lost track of a bunch of episodes which ended up in the hands of the public. FUNi never received film for GT so they can never do a remaster for that.

Toei did remaster the TV specials, but those are rife with problems, from green tint in the Trunks Special, to liberal use of DNR, to general crushed blacks. The movies suffer from the same problems. It's likely at this point that Toei's original negatives have degraded to a point where the color data will be even worse than the Dragon Boxes.

The predominant focus is on newer content and streaming. You have to remember that the people here who would actually buy DB or GT again are an incredibly small portion of the actual fanbase. Most people, even those who might know better, will simply watch Z on Crunchyroll because it's easier, and others talked themselves into getting the 30th Anniversary or Spanish Selecta Vision sets because "it's better than nothing".

So no, if I'm a company with the current state of things, I would have no interest in cranking out proper remasters for the classic shows. And ultimately, that's what drives business decisions.
I fear that you could be right about this. I just cannot fathom in my mind how all of these anime classics, and even cult classics have received the proper HD treatment, and the #1 money making anime franchise in the world has to sit there and be subject to this bad level of treatment. It’s heartbreaking that the license holders and creators of this show have 0 respect for what made them what they are today. Movies that can’t even be called cult classics are getting 4K HDR restorations and the original run of Dragon Ball can’t even get the HD treatment. It’s such a disgrace.

Toei and Sony know good and well they don't need to treat dragon ball well. They know fools will eat up whatever they shit out and ask for seconds. Japan is mostly streaming and Sony/cr/FUNimation areas slurp up even the worst diarrhea. Why would you put effort into anything of people will just give you money for nothing?

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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by ZodaEX » Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:33 am

Majin Man 101 wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:38 pm
ZodaEX wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:36 pm
Majin Man 101 wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:31 pm


Edit*

I’m not talking about original distribution, I never was. How the original distribution was done has absolutely nothing to do with how a film should be preserved in High definition for posterity.

Then what were you referring to when you brought up 2k digital intermediates from the 90s and 2000s? Surely not tv broadcasts or home video releases right? What were you referring to? It sure sounds like you meant their original distribution to me. Explain yourself.
Regardless if I made an error with my terminology. You need to understand that your entire argument was based on how this series the series wasn’t distributed in HD. Wanting the series in HD has nothing to do with distribution. Read my original post and your original comment. They don’t line up.
My entire argument? Which argument are you referring to specifically? There was a few of them.. And I never claimed that wanting the series in HD depended upon the show's original distribution. Please don't put words in my mouth. Thank you.

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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by BlueChi » Sun Sep 11, 2022 12:53 pm

Vorige Waffe wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:39 pm
BlueChi wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 8:19 am If you understand spanish, the spanish Blu Ray sets are at least superior to the UK and US versions. They're not perfect solutions by any chance, however they are on par with most other anime releases now instead of just being flat out... bad.
Image
Upscaled crap. Spreading disinformation like this earns you the garbage releases this franchise is repeatedly subjected to.
Necro'ing, but I have to wonder if you buy other bluray sets beside Dragon Ball. This is legit on par with most releases, be it Gundam, Escaflowne, Utena, Naruto, name it. Only movies seem to have the grain fully intact from what I've noticed.
I know it's taken decades for DB to reach the 'acceptable' level, but we can stop pretending we're still amidst the Orange Bricks era. The perfect home media release with broadcast audio, color correction and unfiltered grain isn't going to happen unless Toei steps forth to do the job.

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