Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

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Majin Man 101
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Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by Majin Man 101 » Sat Jul 30, 2022 5:18 am

So with rumors swirling of Dragon Ball Super anime's return in 2023, Toei just missed out on a 5 year gap of no content where they could have done an HD remaster of the original run of the TV anime. This is so completely baffling to me. I have heard much conjecture that Toei doesn't care to ever remaster the series in HD because they view Dragon Ball as an expendable product to just sell merch. I don't agree with this theory. If this were the case, why would Toei take the time to do HD restorations of the films and TV specials? While they were not perfect, the restorations for the movies and TV specials were mostly fantastic and went far beyond the quality any other company ever has done for a remaster of Dragon Ball before. My only theory is that they have been working on the remasters for the series ever since the TV specials were remastered, however, due to having to remaster 508 TV episodes, plus hopefully the GT special is taking them a long time for obvious reasons. Perhaps now they are waiting on the next anniversary. 40 years is coming in 2026 after all.

Ultimately, if the TV series are remastered to the quality of what they were able to do with the TV specials, I think we will finally be satisfied. Even if the colors are a little off, and God forbid they do some censorship, both of those things can be fixed by the tremendous fanbase.

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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:07 am

I don't see it happening anytime soon, for a number of reasons. I've said all this before, but I'll reiterate because it's relevant here.

Firstly, when the TOEI movie Blu-Rays were being released in 2018 rumours were rampant the series would get similar treatment, even moreso when we had that new beautiful HD remaster of the TV specials. Many fans, myself included waited, and waited for this mythical remaster of the series we never had definitive proof was in the works.

Here we are again in 2022, and TOEI has still never done a HD scan of any of the three original anime series, let alone the money printing Z, which they missed two golden opportunities for.

While I love Kai for what it is, it is very clear that other than Toriyama refusing a new series at the time it was a great excuse for TOEI to not give Z a full HD remaster and to simply have a product to pass off as a new show for the generation of kids watching Fuji TV in 2009. Of course we all know how that turned out. Merchandise failed, the new score was trashed because TOEI were initially oblivious to it being plagiarized, original Z continued to air, and as such Kai failed to become what it was meant to be.

Fast forward to 2019, anticipation is high for TOEI to create a new remaster from their own film prints that would blow every home release the west has had, including the level sets and Dragon Boxes out of the water, and once again they couldn't be bothered. Instead resorting to promoting the announcement of Funimation's 30th anniversary collector's edition. It's like in TOEI's mind anything Funimation (now Crunchyroll) does is "good enough" because it will make them money regardless.

There's a reason TOEI threw out the original audio masters. This is not a series they cared to preserve, they created it to be seen once by kids in the 80s and 90s to sell toys and merch, and that was that. Rightfully fans like us care, and see it as much more than that.

Now nearly three years on from the Z anime's 30th anniversary and nothing has come of it from Japan. I personally don't see a new Blu-Ray or UHD remaster coming from anyone other than Crunchyroll. Even if TOEI miraculously changes their ways for the 40th anniversary of Z in 2029 or even the 40th anniversary of the anime in general in 2026, will anyone still care? Hard to imagine anyone would other than a small minority of collector's, like many of us will. Even then with declining sales of physical media every year I don't want to think what will new releases cost then.

In saying all that I don't blame anyone who will just purchase any release of the series from now on. The 30th anniversary remaster, which can be found on the Manga UK Blu-Rays, Funimation Steelbooks, and the Madman releases are really your best bet when it comes to supporting the series. If you don't own any releases go for it because whatever people say about the quality you will be voting with your wallet that we want the series to be in 4:3, let's hope all companies that release Z henceforth will remember that.
Last edited by Dragon Ball Ireland on Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Do you have any info about international non-English broadcasts about the Dragon Ball anime or manga translations/editions? Please message me. Researching for a future book with Dragon Ball scholar Derek Padula :thumbup:

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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by Xeogran » Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:33 am

Hypothetically, would these remasters be censored like some of the movie re-releases were? If so, then I don't need any.

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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by Majin Man 101 » Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:39 pm

Hypothetically yes they could be censored, but if they were the fan base could and would fix the censorship. Regardless we need an HD restoration.

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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by Majin Man 101 » Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:43 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:07 am I don't see it happening anytime soon, for a number of reasons. I've said all this before, but I'll reiterate because it's relevant here.

Firstly, when the TOEI movie Blu-Rays were being released in 2018 rumours were rampant the series would get similar treatment, even moreso when we had that new beautiful HD remaster of the TV specials. Many fans, myself included waited, and waited for this mythical remaster of the series we never had definitive proof was in the works.

Here we are again in 2022, and TOEI has still never done a HD scan of any of the three original anime series, let alone the money printing Z, which they missed two golden opportunities for.

While I love Kai for what it is, it is very clear that other than Toriyama refusing a new series at the time it was a great excuse for TOEI to not give Z a full HD remaster and to simply have a product to pass off as a new show for the generation of kids watching Fuji TV in 2009. Of course we all know how that turned out. Merchandise failed, the new score was trashed because TOEI were initially oblivious to it being plagiarized, original Z continued to air, and as such Kai failed to become what it was meant to be.

Fast forward to 2019, anticipation is high for TOEI to create a new remaster from their own film prints that would blow every home release the west has had, including the level sets and Dragon Boxes out of the water, and once again they couldn't be bothered. Instead resorting to promoting the announcement of Funimation's 30th anniversary collector's edition. It's like in TOEI's mind anything Funimation (now Crunchyroll) does is "good enough" because it will make them money regardless.

There's a reason TOEI threw out the original audio masters. This is not a series they cared to preserve, they created it to be seen once by kids in the 80s and 90s to sell toys and merch, and that was that. Rightfully fans like us care, and see it as much more than that.

Now nearly three years on from the Z anime's 30th anniversary and nothing has come of it from Japan. I personally don't see a new Blu-Ray or UHD remaster coming from anyone other than Crunchyroll. Even if TOEI miraculously changes their ways for the 40th anniversary of Z in 2029 or even the 40th anniversary of the anime in general in 2026, will anyone still care? Hard to imagine anyone would other than a small minority of collector's, like many of us will. Even then with declining sales of physical media every year I don't want to think what will new releases cost then.

In saying all that I don't blame anyone who will just purchase any release of the series from now on. The 30th anniversary remaster, which can be found on the Manga UK Blu-Rays, Funimation Steelbooks, and the Madman releases are really your best bet when it comes to supporting the series. If you don't own any releases go for it because whatever people say about the quality you will be voting with your wallet that we want the series to be in 4:3, let's hope all companies that release Z henceforth will remember that.
We can only hope and pray for deliverance from this 480i hell we live in with the OG anime series.

Although throwing out the master audio tapes isn’t necessarily a sign of not caring about the material. That was pretty common practice back in those days. And like I said, it doesn’t make any sense to me that they would remaster TV specials so gloriously, and not have it cross anyones mind at TOEI do the TV show.

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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by Majin Man 101 » Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:52 pm

Xeogran wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:33 am Hypothetically, would these remasters be censored like some of the movie re-releases were? If so, then I don't need any.
Hypothetically yes they could be censored, but if they were the fan base could and would fix the censorship. Regardless we need an HD restoration.

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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sat Jul 30, 2022 2:05 pm

Apparently, the thing with the audio is basically a lack of foresight on the anime staff's part. At the time that DB/Z/GT originally aired first run on TV in Japan over that span of 11 years, home releases of anime especially big name ones were fairly limited and the original run of the Dragon Ball anime is yet another case of this. All of these long running animes were week to week affairs and generally seen as one time programming so the idea that they would see eventual distribution on home video was not even something the folks at Toei Animation had on their minds until long after the fact in the late '90s/early 2000's. Hell, no home releases of any of the series came in Japan until March 2003 with the first Dragon Box release. Prior to that, the ONLY thing available on home release were the DB/Z movies on VHS and Laserdisc (some on 8mm film, but that was limited it seems) so basically it was that and also apparently storing 508 episodes worth of film along with their OB cinetape audio elements in a vault for years upon years was just too expensive to do.
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1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by ZodaEX » Sun Jul 31, 2022 7:18 am

Majin Man 101 wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:52 pm
Xeogran wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:33 am Hypothetically, would these remasters be censored like some of the movie re-releases were? If so, then I don't need any.
. Regardless we need an HD restoration.
An HD restoration is a want, not a need. The show wasn't even originally distributed in HD.

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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by BlueChi » Sun Jul 31, 2022 8:19 am

If you understand spanish, the spanish Blu Ray sets are at least superior to the UK and US versions. They're not perfect solutions by any chance, however they are on par with most other anime releases now instead of just being flat out... bad.
Image

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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by johnny1132 » Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:47 am

BlueChi wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 8:19 am If you understand spanish, the spanish Blu Ray sets are at least superior to the UK and US versions. They're not perfect solutions by any chance, however they are on par with most other anime releases now instead of just being flat out... bad.
Image
i would still say that they fall into the "bad" category. Selecta's BDs are upscales, which you can plainly see in the smeared finer details of this screenshot(especially bulma's eyes and hair)

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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by BlueChi » Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:04 am

johnny1132 wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:47 am i would still say that they fall into the "bad" category. Selecta's BDs are upscales, which you can plainly see in the smeared finer details of this screenshot(especially bulma's eyes and hair)
I get you, if you're looking for an unaltered restoration with all grain intact, this would not be it. It is, however, a much better solution than what's offered by Funi's BluRays, and let's not get into the Orange Bricks. To be fair, I'm watching my Gundam 0079 BD discs, which is considered to be a good remaster and it has all the same qualities as SV's remaster so it's just something to be expected with these older shows. Grain is something only for us more hardcore types. I don't personally the perfect remaster, grain and all, happening any time soon, I'm afraid.

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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by Majin Man 101 » Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:29 pm

ZodaEX wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 7:18 am
Majin Man 101 wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:52 pm
Xeogran wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:33 am Hypothetically, would these remasters be censored like some of the movie re-releases were? If so, then I don't need any.
. Regardless we need an HD restoration.
An HD restoration is a want, not a need. The show wasn't even originally distributed in HD.
That doesn’t even make any sense. That like saying any film made from 1920s-early 2000s shouldn’t have ever gotten an HD restoration because it wasn’t originally made in HD.
???
Analog film naturally has a high resolution and putting it in HD gives it a much more faithful look to that analog film.

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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by ZodaEX » Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:31 pm

Majin Man 101 wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:29 pm
ZodaEX wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 7:18 am
Majin Man 101 wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:52 pm
. Regardless we need an HD restoration.
An HD restoration is a want, not a need. The show wasn't even originally distributed in HD.
That doesn’t even make any sense. That like saying any film made from 1920s-early 2000s shouldn’t have ever gotten an HD restoration because it wasn’t originally made in HD.
???
Analog film naturally has a high resolution and putting it in HD gives it a much more faithful look to that analog film.

No. It's not like saying that at all. Films in the early 2000s were in fact originally distributed to movie theaters in HD. The classic Dragon Ball anime wasn't originally distributed in HD. Your analogy makes no sense.
And no one here is arguing that analog film doesn't have a high resolution. Calm down and quit being so overly defensive.

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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by Majin Man 101 » Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:42 pm

ZodaEX wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:31 pm
Majin Man 101 wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:29 pm
ZodaEX wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 7:18 am

An HD restoration is a want, not a need. The show wasn't even originally distributed in HD.
That doesn’t even make any sense. That like saying any film made from 1920s-early 2000s shouldn’t have ever gotten an HD restoration because it wasn’t originally made in HD.
???
Analog film naturally has a high resolution and putting it in HD gives it a much more faithful look to that analog film.

No. It's not like saying that at all. Films in the early 2000s were in fact originally distributed to movie theaters in HD. The classic Dragon Ball anime wasn't originally distributed in HD. Your analogy makes no sense.
And no one here is arguing that analog film doesn't have a high resolution. Calm down and quit being so overly defensive.
So my point still stands. Regardless if 90s and 2000s films had 2k digital intermediates…..

It is absolutely essential that this series is preserved in HD for posterity, despite the fan base wanting it anyway.

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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by ZodaEX » Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:20 pm

Majin Man 101 wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:42 pm
ZodaEX wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:31 pm
Majin Man 101 wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:29 pm

That doesn’t even make any sense. That like saying any film made from 1920s-early 2000s shouldn’t have ever gotten an HD restoration because it wasn’t originally made in HD.
???
Analog film naturally has a high resolution and putting it in HD gives it a much more faithful look to that analog film.

No. It's not like saying that at all. Films in the early 2000s were in fact originally distributed to movie theaters in HD. The classic Dragon Ball anime wasn't originally distributed in HD. Your analogy makes no sense.
And no one here is arguing that analog film doesn't have a high resolution. Calm down and quit being so overly defensive.
So my point still stands. Regardless if 90s and 2000s films had 2k digital intermediates…..

It is absolutely essential that this series is preserved in HD for posterity, despite the fan base wanting it anyway.
You still aren't comprehending how film distribution worked in the 90's. Analog HD film prints were struck for distribution to theaters in the 90's and early 2000's. Not 2k digital intermediates, as you claim. An intermediate something else. An intermediate is used in the editing and compositing of actually producing the said 90's and 2000's films. Prints were used for distribution. Please read up some on classic movie production before you pretend to know how it worked. You have your facts very wrong.

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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by Majin Man 101 » Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:31 pm

ZodaEX wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:20 pm
Majin Man 101 wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:42 pm
ZodaEX wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:31 pm


No. It's not like saying that at all. Films in the early 2000s were in fact originally distributed to movie theaters in HD. The classic Dragon Ball anime wasn't originally distributed in HD. Your analogy makes no sense.
And no one here is arguing that analog film doesn't have a high resolution. Calm down and quit being so overly defensive.
So my point still stands. Regardless if 90s and 2000s films had 2k digital intermediates…..

It is absolutely essential that this series is preserved in HD for posterity, despite the fan base wanting it anyway.
You still aren't comprehending how film distribution worked in the 90's. Analog HD film prints were struck for distribution to theaters in the 90's and early 2000's. Not 2k digital intermediates, as you claim. An intermediate something else. An intermediate is used in the editing and compositing of actually producing the said 90's and 2000's films. Prints were used for distribution. Please read up some on classic movie production before you pretend to know how it worked. You have your facts very wrong.


Edit*

I’m not talking about original distribution, I never was. How the original distribution was done has absolutely nothing to do with how a film should be preserved in High definition for posterity.

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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by Vorige Waffe » Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:39 pm

BlueChi wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 8:19 am If you understand spanish, the spanish Blu Ray sets are at least superior to the UK and US versions. They're not perfect solutions by any chance, however they are on par with most other anime releases now instead of just being flat out... bad.
Image
Upscaled crap. Spreading disinformation like this earns you the garbage releases this franchise is repeatedly subjected to.

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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by ZodaEX » Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:36 pm

Majin Man 101 wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:31 pm
ZodaEX wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:20 pm
Majin Man 101 wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:42 pm

So my point still stands. Regardless if 90s and 2000s films had 2k digital intermediates…..

It is absolutely essential that this series is preserved in HD for posterity, despite the fan base wanting it anyway.
You still aren't comprehending how film distribution worked in the 90's. Analog HD film prints were struck for distribution to theaters in the 90's and early 2000's. Not 2k digital intermediates, as you claim. An intermediate something else. An intermediate is used in the editing and compositing of actually producing the said 90's and 2000's films. Prints were used for distribution. Please read up some on classic movie production before you pretend to know how it worked. You have your facts very wrong.


Edit*

I’m not talking about original distribution, I never was. How the original distribution was done has absolutely nothing to do with how a film should be preserved in High definition for posterity.

Then what were you referring to when you brought up 2k digital intermediates from the 90s and 2000s? Surely not tv broadcasts or home video releases right? What were you referring to? It sure sounds like you meant their original distribution to me. Explain yourself.

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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by Vorige Waffe » Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:49 pm

You're arguing with someone who doesn't know how film production, delivery, and analog video and broadcasting worked before he was born. I don't think an explanation is needed.

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Re: Time Frame On a Dragon Ball/DBZ/DBGT HD Remaster

Post by Majin Man 101 » Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:38 pm

ZodaEX wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:36 pm
Majin Man 101 wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:31 pm
ZodaEX wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:20 pm

You still aren't comprehending how film distribution worked in the 90's. Analog HD film prints were struck for distribution to theaters in the 90's and early 2000's. Not 2k digital intermediates, as you claim. An intermediate something else. An intermediate is used in the editing and compositing of actually producing the said 90's and 2000's films. Prints were used for distribution. Please read up some on classic movie production before you pretend to know how it worked. You have your facts very wrong.


Edit*

I’m not talking about original distribution, I never was. How the original distribution was done has absolutely nothing to do with how a film should be preserved in High definition for posterity.

Then what were you referring to when you brought up 2k digital intermediates from the 90s and 2000s? Surely not tv broadcasts or home video releases right? What were you referring to? It sure sounds like you meant their original distribution to me. Explain yourself.
Regardless if I made an error with my terminology. You need to understand that your entire argument was based on how this series the series wasn’t distributed in HD. Wanting the series in HD has nothing to do with distribution. Read my original post and your original comment. They don’t line up.

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