I don't think that'll be a problem with modern Dragon Ball. The original series simply came from a different time when it was okay for the media to make fun of gay people.Lord Beerus wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:45 am I would certainly welcome the inclusion of a Dragon Ball character that is from the LBGTQ+ community. But I would not trust Toriyama, Toyotaro or Toei to wrote a character with an LBGTQ+ background AT ALL. They all lack the capacity to write a character from an LBGTQ+ background with the kind of nuance and sympathy required to not feel like a caricature or to serve as the punchline for a cheap, gross and unfunny gag or to rely so much on subtext than it just comes across as queer baiting.
How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
It shouldn't be done because it doesn't matter. If there's no purpose for something to be done you generally do not do it.PurestEvil wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:19 amYeah, but throughout the whole discussion you made some arguments about why it SHOULD NOT be done, not just why it doesn’t need to happen.
So again nothing at all to do with the show whatsoever. Just a reason to inject politics into a cartoon that's already well loved by countless groups and whose main cast largely represents East Asians.Representation is important not because it’s trendy, it’s because it gives a positive impression of minorities (if done right), which can counter bigotry and promote acceptance.
Leave such things to other shows. It is unnecessary for Dragon Ball where such things are irrelevant.
There's nothing political about it. You're talking about it being included for no other reason at all but to represent a minority group.Like, you think you’re being apolitical by saying you don’t want “politics” in your Dragon ball, but in reality you’re just saying that gay representation is unfit for Dragon Ball, which is pretty political.
Not for anything to do with the story or the character itself. A series where almost all new major characters aren't stated to have any preference one way or the other, being that the show is about characters punching each other in the face, now suddenly needs a character to randomly be gay?
No. The show is fine and well liked as is, has been for over 35 years. Leave it. People don't care if Jiren is gay. They don't care if Hit is straight. They don't care if Granolah is bisexual.
In which case Japan are far less tolerant for pandering unlike the west. So they themselves would have no real need to include it anyway.Dragon Ball is a product made for the Japanese market.
So you recognise that representation does not matter in Dragon Ball a series whose current cast make up characters that look like this...Rhetorical/Leading questions need not be answered directly.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
People do care. It why people talk about how cool it would be to have queer characters.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
Oddly specific to focus on Jiren of all characters. While I think you could expect a usual amount of uproar from the anti-woke crowds, I have a feeling relatively few people would notice or care at this point.
I have come to believe that representation is very important. When it comes to something like Dragon Ball though, the question really is, can it really do any of it justice? I think it's fair to point out that this series has never been overly fixated on realistic depictions of romance or sexuality. There are quite a few "obnoxiously straight" characters like Roshi and Oolong whose perversion is played for laughs, but that emphasises Dragon Ball's problematic history in depicting these things.
At any rate, I personally believe that there are far better characters to explore sexuality with than Jiren. Like many other martial artists in the series, he is not the kind of character to focus on anything besides training and improving his strength. Revealing his sexuality, if he even has one, would probably not lead anywhere at all. If fans want to construe his relationships with Goku and Toppo as being more than rivalry or close friendship respectively, they can by all means do that. He's enough of a blank slate where it's possible. A good comparison would be Tenshinhan, who may well have sexual inclinations either way (though I've always found the idea of him being "more than friends" with Chaozu to be icky considering that the little Jiangshi dude never visibly ages), but chooses to be celibate due to his dedication to Budo.
For what it's worth, I would say Dragon Ball already has a fair amount of representation and, for the most part, it has been handled subtly enough that nobody complains or notices. I think it boils down to the fact that Dragon Ball, for the most part, does not mindfully dwell topics like sexuality and politics. Everything ultimately ties back to action or the occasional joke. Just off the top of my head, we have:
I have come to believe that representation is very important. When it comes to something like Dragon Ball though, the question really is, can it really do any of it justice? I think it's fair to point out that this series has never been overly fixated on realistic depictions of romance or sexuality. There are quite a few "obnoxiously straight" characters like Roshi and Oolong whose perversion is played for laughs, but that emphasises Dragon Ball's problematic history in depicting these things.
At any rate, I personally believe that there are far better characters to explore sexuality with than Jiren. Like many other martial artists in the series, he is not the kind of character to focus on anything besides training and improving his strength. Revealing his sexuality, if he even has one, would probably not lead anywhere at all. If fans want to construe his relationships with Goku and Toppo as being more than rivalry or close friendship respectively, they can by all means do that. He's enough of a blank slate where it's possible. A good comparison would be Tenshinhan, who may well have sexual inclinations either way (though I've always found the idea of him being "more than friends" with Chaozu to be icky considering that the little Jiangshi dude never visibly ages), but chooses to be celibate due to his dedication to Budo.
For what it's worth, I would say Dragon Ball already has a fair amount of representation and, for the most part, it has been handled subtly enough that nobody complains or notices. I think it boils down to the fact that Dragon Ball, for the most part, does not mindfully dwell topics like sexuality and politics. Everything ultimately ties back to action or the occasional joke. Just off the top of my head, we have:
- Whis. While it's not explicitly stated (him blushing at Beerus's exposed dong gives us about as much confirmation as we can ever expect), I'd say he's one of the best examples in the entire franchise and a personal favourite. He's a super cool, strong, intelligent and well-developed character who also happens to be extremely camp and effete in demeanour.
- Piccolo. Piccolo is confirmed to be asexual. Of course, he's biologically determined to be, but it's important in how he interacts with the rest of the cast (i.e. his complete misunderstanding of romantic love).
- Freeza. Freeza is also extremely queer-coded and happens to be the most iconic villain in the series. He's androgynous enough that some still get confused about his gender to this day. Being villainous does not disqualify him, IMO, since he comes from a long legacy of empoweringly cool queer antagonists in Asian and global literature.
- Caulifla and Kale. They're lesbian Super Saiyans. It's about the most explicit queer representation we've had in the series and both characters are no less popular for it.
Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
Yes, Whis is a great example. He's all but outright stated to be gay and is the most powerful fighter in universe 7.LoganForkHands73 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:36 pm
- Whis. While it's not explicitly stated (him blushing at Beerus's exposed dong gives us about as much confirmation as we can ever expect), I'd say he's one of the best examples in the entire franchise and a personal favourite. He's a super cool, strong, intelligent and well-developed character who also happens to be extremely camp and effete in demeanour.
I always feel the need to point out that despite being in a traditional heterosexual marriage (that he only agreed to because he made a promise he didn't understand as a kid) Goku is very much asexual and aromantic. He clearly has no interest in either. I guess you could argue he's asexual heteroromantic in the anime since Toei does tend to add stuff suggesting his love for Chi Chi is genuine (his dream in the Princess Snake episode, the reunion when he recovers from his heart virus, agreeing with Vegeta that he likes Chi Chi being strong willed). But still.
- Piccolo. Piccolo is confirmed to be asexual. Of course, he's biologically determined to be, but it's important in how he interacts with the rest of the cast (i.e. his complete misunderstanding of romantic love).
Queer coded villains have been a thing forever and I don't think its necessarily a bad thing. Though the Funi Z dub plays it right into problematic territory.
- Freeza. Freeza is also extremely queer-coded and happens to be the most iconic villain in the series. He's androgynous enough that some still get confused about his gender to this day. Being villainous does not disqualify him, IMO, since he comes from a long legacy of empoweringly cool queer antagonists in Asian and global literature.
I'd argue they're pretty unpopular. At least they were for a while. Though that has way more to do with them being female warriors in the anti sjw reactionary era than anything.
- Caulifla and Kale. They're lesbian Super Saiyans. It's about the most explicit queer representation we've had in the series and both characters are no less popular for it.
Still they're awesome.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
Cheers, I agree with pretty much all of that.MasenkoHA wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:52 pmYes, Whis is a great example. He's all but outright stated to be gay and is the most powerful fighter in universe 7.LoganForkHands73 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:36 pm
- Whis. While it's not explicitly stated (him blushing at Beerus's exposed dong gives us about as much confirmation as we can ever expect), I'd say he's one of the best examples in the entire franchise and a personal favourite. He's a super cool, strong, intelligent and well-developed character who also happens to be extremely camp and effete in demeanour.
I always feel the need to point out that despite being in a traditional heterosexual marriage (that he only agreed to because he made a promise he didn't understand as a kid) Goku is very much asexual and aromantic. He clearly has no interest in either. I guess you could argue he's asexual heteroromantic in the anime since Toei does tend to add stuff suggesting his love for Chi Chi is genuine (his dream in the Princess Snake episode, the reunion when he recovers from his heart virus, agreeing with Vegeta that he likes Chi Chi being strong willed). But still.
- Piccolo. Piccolo is confirmed to be asexual. Of course, he's biologically determined to be, but it's important in how he interacts with the rest of the cast (i.e. his complete misunderstanding of romantic love).
Queer coded villains have been a thing forever and I don't think its necessarily a bad thing. Though the Funi Z dub plays it right into problematic territory.
- Freeza. Freeza is also extremely queer-coded and happens to be the most iconic villain in the series. He's androgynous enough that some still get confused about his gender to this day. Being villainous does not disqualify him, IMO, since he comes from a long legacy of empoweringly cool queer antagonists in Asian and global literature.
I'd argue they're pretty unpopular. At least they were for a while. Though that has way more to do with them being female warriors in the anti sjw reactionary era than anything.
- Caulifla and Kale. They're lesbian Super Saiyans. It's about the most explicit queer representation we've had in the series and both characters are no less popular for it.
Still they're awesome.
Regarding Goku, I also believe it depends on the medium to a degree. I have a feeling that the Z anime writers wanted to show him as somebody with very traditional/old-fashioned expressions of romance, i.e. stoically keeping most of his feelings about it to himself. Funnily enough, the scene of Goku and Vegeta talking about their taste in wives does go down almost identically in both the Super anime and manga (complete with Piccolo freaking out in the background), but even then, Goku talks about Chichi like one of the bros, there's not an ounce of romance in how he says it, lmao.
Like in most genre fiction, the logic and setting of Dragon Ball all orbits around the protagonist, in this case Goku, a guy who mostly cares about fighting and not at all about romance. I think that predictable simplicity is part of what makes Dragon Ball such a global hit.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
They would have to make him gay alien first.
And Dragon ball would have to start exploring deeper character traits besides bashing skulls.
It would change nothing I guess. Jiren was boring as hell and was caring for nobody, just sheer power up to the point of stupidity.
Maybe he is gay alien if he starts caring for anybody, we don’t know
And Dragon ball would have to start exploring deeper character traits besides bashing skulls.
It would change nothing I guess. Jiren was boring as hell and was caring for nobody, just sheer power up to the point of stupidity.
Maybe he is gay alien if he starts caring for anybody, we don’t know
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
I didn’t want to pile onto the anti-woke side, but what I will say is that if Dragon Ball ever started catering to the cravings of Western audiences cultural and political needs, it would absolutely hurt the series overall. I think that is made obvious here by how many people want the series to be something that it is not, via them not liking the views that are currently expressed in the series. The thing about Dragon Ball at its very essence is that it was written by a straight man, and he obviously wanted to write something that he enjoys writing, and his sense of humour and views are put out on parade with his work. Likewise with the writers at Toei.
I am not going to sit here and pretend to have an understanding of Japanese culture but what I will say is that if they aren’t ready for that kind of content then it would feel forced. I don’t think that there has ever been an honest to God piece of fiction where an author is thinking in his head to cater to every single different crowd of people possible that has been quality. While you obviously want your series to reach as many people as possible, I think it is obvious that the old saying still stands that if you try to please everybody, you will end up pleasing nobody.
That all being said there has been some tremendous characters in Yu Yu Hakusho/Hunter x Hunter and many different fantastic anime that definitely don’t fit into the straight category, and if Dragon Balls writing would improve then I don’t see why it wouldn’t work there.
Jiren being gay though? I don’t know why that would be interesting. There would have to be a story element or attachment to another character that would have to make that work. But based off of everything we have seen from Jiren so far, I think this would be a pretty bland choice.
Now on how the fandom would react… I think if there was a change where a member of the Original cast were made gay there would be a galactic meltdown, but new characters I don’t think anybody would really care all that much.
I am not going to sit here and pretend to have an understanding of Japanese culture but what I will say is that if they aren’t ready for that kind of content then it would feel forced. I don’t think that there has ever been an honest to God piece of fiction where an author is thinking in his head to cater to every single different crowd of people possible that has been quality. While you obviously want your series to reach as many people as possible, I think it is obvious that the old saying still stands that if you try to please everybody, you will end up pleasing nobody.
That all being said there has been some tremendous characters in Yu Yu Hakusho/Hunter x Hunter and many different fantastic anime that definitely don’t fit into the straight category, and if Dragon Balls writing would improve then I don’t see why it wouldn’t work there.
Jiren being gay though? I don’t know why that would be interesting. There would have to be a story element or attachment to another character that would have to make that work. But based off of everything we have seen from Jiren so far, I think this would be a pretty bland choice.
Now on how the fandom would react… I think if there was a change where a member of the Original cast were made gay there would be a galactic meltdown, but new characters I don’t think anybody would really care all that much.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
japanese manga fans aren't ready for gender non conforming or non hetro normative characters ? that must be why every 70s shoujo manga failed!
i kid, obviously just because you like utena doesn't mean you automatically aren't homophobic, but japanese manga series have had those type of characters and themes in fairly popular series for a long time now.
i kid, obviously just because you like utena doesn't mean you automatically aren't homophobic, but japanese manga series have had those type of characters and themes in fairly popular series for a long time now.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
Money talks. Including more LGBT content would not make them more money. The small amount of people that will spend money on DB that don't spend money now won't outweigh the amount of backlash/people that would spend less or leave the brand.
Money makes the world go round. Dragon Ball is being made purely to make money. Dragon Ball has a financially succesful formula where Toei doesnt want to temper too much with. Even though I'm not the biggest Super fan, the current formula works for them.
Money makes the world go round. Dragon Ball is being made purely to make money. Dragon Ball has a financially succesful formula where Toei doesnt want to temper too much with. Even though I'm not the biggest Super fan, the current formula works for them.
Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
Bulma goes crazy over men and says she can't contol herself when she sees a hot guy
Oolong says he hates men (and penis) and only likes girls
Roshi constantly hits on and sexually harrasses women. He also request Goku and Kuririn find him a pichi pichi girl
Lanfang tries to distract Nam with her body
Kuririn tempts Roshi to train him with skin mags. He also laments about wanting to get married. He also cant deactivate 18 because she kissed him
Chi Chi decides since Goku kicked her in the vagina she has no choice but to be his wife
Bulma and Kuririn determine General Blue is gay because he was grossed out by her throwing herself at him.
Goku accidentally finds Murasaki's porn collection
Goku convinces Old Kaioshin to power up Gohan by promising him he can feel up Bulma.
I don't get where you and another user think sexuality just isn't a thing in Dragon Ball. It very much is.
Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
Putting aside the screaming queerness (subtext and text) in manga and anime in general, has it not at all occurred to you that maybe Japanese queer people do not like seeing themselves poorly treated in media?Majin Man 101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:33 am I didn’t want to pile onto the anti-woke side, but what I will say is that if Dragon Ball ever started catering to the cravings of Western audiences cultural and political needs, it would absolutely hurt the series overall. I think that is made obvious here by how many people want the series to be something that it is not, via them not liking the views that are currently expressed in the series. The thing about Dragon Ball at its very essence is that it was written by a straight man, and he obviously wanted to write something that he enjoys writing, and his sense of humour and views are put out on parade with his work. Likewise with the writers at Toei.
I am not going to sit here and pretend to have an understanding of Japanese culture but what I will say is that if they aren’t ready for that kind of content then it would feel forced. I don’t think that there has ever been an honest to God piece of fiction where an author is thinking in his head to cater to every single different crowd of people possible that has been quality. While you obviously want your series to reach as many people as possible, I think it is obvious that the old saying still stands that if you try to please everybody, you will end up pleasing nobody.
That all being said there has been some tremendous characters in Yu Yu Hakusho/Hunter x Hunter and many different fantastic anime that definitely don’t fit into the straight category, and if Dragon Balls writing would improve then I don’t see why it wouldn’t work there.
Jiren being gay though? I don’t know why that would be interesting. There would have to be a story element or attachment to another character that would have to make that work. But based off of everything we have seen from Jiren so far, I think this would be a pretty bland choice.
Now on how the fandom would react… I think if there was a change where a member of the Original cast were made gay there would be a galactic meltdown, but new characters I don’t think anybody would really care all that much.
Or is saying "fuck this shit, do better" something only the western queers are capable of?
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
You seem to have completely ignored the most important section of my comment that gave examples of how Dragon Ball was already influenced by politics.Xeno Goku Black wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:56 amSo again nothing at all to do with the show whatsoever. Just a reason to inject politics into a cartoon that's already well loved by countless groups and whose main cast largely represents East Asians.Representation is important not because it’s trendy, it’s because it gives a positive impression of minorities (if done right), which can counter bigotry and promote acceptance.
Besides, I never said the writers were obligated to write gay characters; it’s their story and their characters. What I AM saying is that if they do write gay character and do it well, it would be good because good representation leaves a positive impact overall.
Your argument that DB can’t produce gay characters because they will not look like humans implies that people cannot relate to non-human characters, which is laughably wrong. Sexuality is not about appearance, it’s about feelings. That’s why I dodged your question earlier, it was based on a faulty premise.So you recognise that representation does not matter in Dragon Ball a series whose current cast make up characters that look like this...Rhetorical/Leading questions need not be answered directly.
Spoiler:
I can’t be bothered to go on with this “discussion” with you, since you simply can’t deal with the level of nuance in this topic and will continue to clutch your pearls and repeat your trite arguments. In all seriousness, check you prejudices.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
I honestly cannot say for sure. Obviously there is nothing that makes westerners any more capable than anybody else in the world on any topic. But from what I have seen the desire and passion for this kind of thing is strongest in the west,(specifically North America)JulieYBM wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:11 amPutting aside the screaming queerness (subtext and text) in manga and anime in general, has it not at all occurred to you that maybe Japanese queer people do not like seeing themselves poorly treated in media?Majin Man 101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:33 am I didn’t want to pile onto the anti-woke side, but what I will say is that if Dragon Ball ever started catering to the cravings of Western audiences cultural and political needs, it would absolutely hurt the series overall. I think that is made obvious here by how many people want the series to be something that it is not, via them not liking the views that are currently expressed in the series. The thing about Dragon Ball at its very essence is that it was written by a straight man, and he obviously wanted to write something that he enjoys writing, and his sense of humour and views are put out on parade with his work. Likewise with the writers at Toei.
I am not going to sit here and pretend to have an understanding of Japanese culture but what I will say is that if they aren’t ready for that kind of content then it would feel forced. I don’t think that there has ever been an honest to God piece of fiction where an author is thinking in his head to cater to every single different crowd of people possible that has been quality. While you obviously want your series to reach as many people as possible, I think it is obvious that the old saying still stands that if you try to please everybody, you will end up pleasing nobody.
That all being said there has been some tremendous characters in Yu Yu Hakusho/Hunter x Hunter and many different fantastic anime that definitely don’t fit into the straight category, and if Dragon Balls writing would improve then I don’t see why it wouldn’t work there.
Jiren being gay though? I don’t know why that would be interesting. There would have to be a story element or attachment to another character that would have to make that work. But based off of everything we have seen from Jiren so far, I think this would be a pretty bland choice.
Now on how the fandom would react… I think if there was a change where a member of the Original cast were made gay there would be a galactic meltdown, but new characters I don’t think anybody would really care all that much.
Or is saying "fuck this shit, do better" something only the western queers are capable of?
Maybe I am wrong about that and I wouldn’t have a problem admitting that I am wrong, I don’t really follow the news on this sort of thing I can only talk about my observations.
Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
I don't understand your logic here to assume that about not only a marginalized people that you're [seemingly] unfamiliar with and not a part of—queer people in general—but also about queer people in Japan. Like, yeah, we're all here speaking on message boards in the English language because we all happen to speak English and live in nations that primarily speak English. That's kind of irrelevant to the fact maybe dealing with random bigotry from your favorite works of art kind of sucks no matter where you live? Especially considering just how awful the situation is for queer rights in Japan.Majin Man 101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:12 am I honestly cannot say for sure. Obviously there is nothing that makes westerners any more capable than anybody else in the world on any topic. But from what I have seen the desire and passion for this kind of thing is strongest in the west,(specifically North America)
Maybe I am wrong about that and I wouldn’t have a problem admitting that I am wrong, I don’t really follow the news on this sort of thing I can only talk about my observations.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
I mean I’m not disagreeing with you i’m just trying to come at this from a perspective of that this is an issue that probably won’t be addressed anytime soon due to the various reasons listed previously.JulieYBM wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:01 pmI don't understand your logic here to assume that about not only a marginalized people that you're [seemingly] unfamiliar with and not a part of—queer people in general—but also about queer people in Japan. Like, yeah, we're all here speaking on message boards in the English language because we all happen to speak English and live in nations that primarily speak English. That's kind of irrelevant to the fact maybe dealing with random bigotry from your favorite works of art kind of sucks no matter where you live? Especially considering just how awful the situation is for queer rights in Japan.Majin Man 101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:12 am I honestly cannot say for sure. Obviously there is nothing that makes westerners any more capable than anybody else in the world on any topic. But from what I have seen the desire and passion for this kind of thing is strongest in the west,(specifically North America)
Maybe I am wrong about that and I wouldn’t have a problem admitting that I am wrong, I don’t really follow the news on this sort of thing I can only talk about my observations.
Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
Okay, but then what is your point in saying "this is an issue that probably won't be addressed anytime soon"? Are you saying people shouldn't discuss or have positions in-favor of positive queer representation in media? I'm confused.Majin Man 101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:10 pmI mean I’m not disagreeing with you i’m just trying to come at this from a perspective of that this is an issue that probably won’t be addressed anytime soon due to the various reasons listed previously.JulieYBM wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:01 pmI don't understand your logic here to assume that about not only a marginalized people that you're [seemingly] unfamiliar with and not a part of—queer people in general—but also about queer people in Japan. Like, yeah, we're all here speaking on message boards in the English language because we all happen to speak English and live in nations that primarily speak English. That's kind of irrelevant to the fact maybe dealing with random bigotry from your favorite works of art kind of sucks no matter where you live? Especially considering just how awful the situation is for queer rights in Japan.Majin Man 101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:12 am I honestly cannot say for sure. Obviously there is nothing that makes westerners any more capable than anybody else in the world on any topic. But from what I have seen the desire and passion for this kind of thing is strongest in the west,(specifically North America)
Maybe I am wrong about that and I wouldn’t have a problem admitting that I am wrong, I don’t really follow the news on this sort of thing I can only talk about my observations.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
No that’s not what I’m saying at all. What I am saying is that we should not expect any overwhelming positive representation in Dragon Ball anytime soon.JulieYBM wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:26 pmOkay, but then what is your point in saying "this is an issue that probably won't be addressed anytime soon"? Are you saying people shouldn't discuss or have positions in-favor of positive queer representation in media? I'm confused.Majin Man 101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:10 pmI mean I’m not disagreeing with you i’m just trying to come at this from a perspective of that this is an issue that probably won’t be addressed anytime soon due to the various reasons listed previously.JulieYBM wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:01 pm
I don't understand your logic here to assume that about not only a marginalized people that you're [seemingly] unfamiliar with and not a part of—queer people in general—but also about queer people in Japan. Like, yeah, we're all here speaking on message boards in the English language because we all happen to speak English and live in nations that primarily speak English. That's kind of irrelevant to the fact maybe dealing with random bigotry from your favorite works of art kind of sucks no matter where you live? Especially considering just how awful the situation is for queer rights in Japan.
Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
Nobody has been under any idea that positive representation would occur soon but that doesn't mean that we should take any other stance or attitude that contributes to that.Majin Man 101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:43 pmNo that’s not what I’m saying at all. What I am saying is that we should not expect any overwhelming positive representation in Dragon Ball anytime soon.JulieYBM wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:26 pmOkay, but then what is your point in saying "this is an issue that probably won't be addressed anytime soon"? Are you saying people shouldn't discuss or have positions in-favor of positive queer representation in media? I'm confused.Majin Man 101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:10 pm
I mean I’m not disagreeing with you i’m just trying to come at this from a perspective of that this is an issue that probably won’t be addressed anytime soon due to the various reasons listed previously.
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