How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:08 pm

Cursed Lemon wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:22 pmNothing you have said excepts adding a gay character specifically.
There nothing to stop it anyway.

I'm just wondering what the purpose would be. In a series where attraction to another gay only resorts to

1. An excuse for a new character to be created (Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Pan etc).

2. An opportunity for a gag.

Them making Jiren gay would fulfill what purpose for the show? Is it merely to tick some diversity box? So nothing to do with the show itself then?

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:08 pm

Xeno Goku Black wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:00 pm

You're saying these straight characters don't have a child? So therefore they are characters whose heterosexuality is treated as a joke, as I said, multiple times now that it was merely one or the other...
And again you've been asked why are theoretical gay characters excluded from their lust for the same sex being played for laughs? As long as the joke is they're thirsty and not that they're gay?



Yes...I mentioned this.
And you still play the double standards game. i wOnDeR wHy tHaT iS?!?!

They can. General Blue did so with that kid from Dr Slump was similar to what Roshi did with Bulma.
With General Blue the joke was "He's gay so of course he's a pedophile." With Roshi the joke is "damn this old man is a pervert and is really horny for Bulma. "

Roshi's sexuality isn't linked to pedophilia.

But yay for being consistent on your false equivalent arguments!!!!

I

It kinda was at times. Being on the verge of death and complaining about how he'd never even had a girlfriend was kind of the joke.
It was also given sincere development. Toriyama let him marry a hot wife so he could have a bone thrown his way. Marron's existence, unlike Gohan, Goten, and Trunks, is completely incidental.

But it's not like everyone here can't see past your bullshit.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:19 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:08 pmAnd again you've been asked why are theoretical gay characters excluded from their lust for the same sex being played for laughs? As long as the joke is they're thirsty and not that they're gay?
Again? I answered the first time it was asked.

There is a character like that, Otokosuki. He was a gay character whose attraction to Trunks to was played as a joke similar to what Roshi and Oolong do with women.

People complain about it.
And you still play the double standards game. i wOnDeR wHy tHaT iS?!?!
Toggling the caps lock isn't making a point. There is no double standard.
Roshi's sexuality isn't linked to pedophilia.
That's not my problem. General Blue wasn't called a pedophile and Roshi was an old man being a pervert towards a girl who was only 16 years of age. He was a pedophile.
It was also given sincere development. Toriyama let him marry a hot wife so he could have a bone thrown his way. Marron's existence, unlike Gohan, Goten, and Trunks, is completely incidental.
No it was not. He joked a few times about not having a girlfriend. He was instantly smitten by a sexy android and became obsessed after a kiss on a joke.

Add a scene where he decides to detonate a bomb and then next thing you know they're married and a new character was created from it.

The relevancy of the child doesn't matter.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:28 pm

Xeno Goku Black wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:19 pm
Roshi's sexuality isn't linked to pedophilia.
That's not my problem. General Blue wasn't called a pedophile and Roshi was an old man being a pervert towards a girl who was only 16 years of age. He was a pedophile.
Having a flippant attitude towards the queer community's being called pedophiles—something still happening in this day and age—due to their sexuality is honestly disgusting. Straight people are not history witch hunted for false accusations of grooming and pedophilia, queer people are. Making one of your only queer characters a pedophile is extremely harmful and in no way going to hurt cishet people like it will the perception of queer people.

Your comparison is poorly constructed.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:39 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:28 pm
Xeno Goku Black wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:19 pm
Roshi's sexuality isn't linked to pedophilia.
That's not my problem. General Blue wasn't called a pedophile and Roshi was an old man being a pervert towards a girl who was only 16 years of age. He was a pedophile.
Having a flippant attitude towards the queer community's being called pedophiles—something still happening in this day and age—due to their sexuality is honestly disgusting. Straight people are not history witch hunted for false accusations of grooming and pedophilia, queer people are. Making one of your only queer characters a pedophile is extremely harmful and in no way going to hurt cishet people like it will the perception of queer people.

Your comparison is poorly constructed.
There's also the fact Roshi's attraction to Bulma isn't treated as pedophilia. Yes, he's a creep but the narrative isn't framing it as "Oh he likes little girls" its framing it as "He's attracted to her tits and ass" the fact she's underage is completely irrelevant as far as the comic/show is concerned. The Obatchoman scene makes no bones about Blue being attracted to a child who looks like a child

Even completely ignoring the gay=pedophile bit the two aren't at all comparable.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:40 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:39 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:28 pm
Xeno Goku Black wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:19 pm
That's not my problem. General Blue wasn't called a pedophile and Roshi was an old man being a pervert towards a girl who was only 16 years of age. He was a pedophile.
Having a flippant attitude towards the queer community's being called pedophiles—something still happening in this day and age—due to their sexuality is honestly disgusting. Straight people are not history witch hunted for false accusations of grooming and pedophilia, queer people are. Making one of your only queer characters a pedophile is extremely harmful and in no way going to hurt cishet people like it will the perception of queer people.

Your comparison is poorly constructed.
There's also the fact Roshi's attraction to Bulma isn't treated as pedophilia. Yes, he's a creep but the narrative isn't framing it as "Oh he likes little girls" its framing it as "He's attracted to her tits and ass" the fact she's underage is completely irrelevant as far as the comic/show is concerned. The Obatchoman scene makes no bones about Blue being attracted to a child who looks like a child

Even completely ignoring the gay=pedophile bit the two aren't at all comparable.
I must have forgotten to add that part, because that was totally a thought that occurred to me while writing that posts. My fingers must not have caught it.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:43 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:28 pmYour comparison is poorly constructed.
The comparison stands, the gay General Blue is a grown adult who had a joke involving a boy that makes him appear like a pedophile. The straight Master Roshi is a grown adult who had a joke involving a girl that makes him appear like a pedophile.

How other people choose to take the scenes personally is really not my business.

Both were comparable jokes is all I'm getting at. Master Roshi was a pedophile so if other people don't see him that way...yeah that's not my fault.
MasenkoHA wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:39 pmThe Obatchoman scene makes no bones about Blue being attracted to a child who looks like a child
Bulma is a child who looks like a child.

Oolong was kidnapping little girls too, he's a pedophile.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by super michael » Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:54 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:49 pm Comic book sales have been declining for a long time. Meanwhile a Spider-man film with a black/latino Spider-man became one of the most beloved Spider-man movies and animated movies. Iron Heart is getting her own show. A Marvel show with a Muslim teen girl super hero just came to Disney +. The recent Thor movie introducing a female Thor grossed over 700 milliom worldwide, becoming the second highest grossing Thor film. Maybe get out of your alt right SJW and feminist ruin everything!!! Youtube cesspool?
The new black/latino Spider-Man is called Miles Morales, he basically becomes the new Spider-Man after
I haven't read any comics yet. I think Miles Morales is a great character.

First time hearing a Marvel character with the name Iron Heart.

What is the movie called that as a Muslim teen girl super hero in Marvel?

Thor I am aware of that movie, I have to watch it one day. I want to watch every Marvel movies.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Dr. Casey » Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:03 pm

You shouldn't be involved at all with a 16 year old since mentally they're very much not adults, but there's still a large gulf between finding a 16 year old attractive and having a crush on what looks like a second grader.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:11 pm

There's also a large gulf between General Blue thinking a boy is cute and Master Roshi shrinking down to size and trying to see Bulma on the toilet take a piss.

In fact now I've checked the former wasn't even in the manga.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Dr. Casey » Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:15 pm

That's fair yeah. I just don't think anything involving a 16 year old could be outright pedophilia. Sleazy and creepy and wrong, but that's a bit past pedophilia age.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by super michael » Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:20 pm

Xeno Goku Black wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:11 pm There's also a large gulf between General Blue thinking a boy is cute and Master Roshi shrinking down to size and trying to see Bulma on the toilet take a piss.

In fact now I've checked the former wasn't even in the manga.
It appears General Blue being interested in Obotchaman only appears in episode 56 of Dragon Ball.
General Blue mentions he loathes girls and poop.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:27 pm

Xeno Goku Black wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:34 pm
Comic sales went down the toilet and they quickly had to reverse it. That's where representation got them.
Those comics are just dog shit, not because they have representation going for them. Miles Morales and John Stewart are very successful comic characters from Marvel & DC. If you look at other comic book characters outside of Marvel and DC, you have sucessful black superheroes like Spawn. Spawn is the longest creator own comic and is probably the most sucessful black superhero that is not own by Marvel or DC.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:40 pm

Dr. Casey wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:15 pm That's fair yeah. I just don't think anything involving a 16 year old could be outright pedophilia. Sleazy and creepy and wrong, but that's a bit past pedophilia age.
Isn't the age of consent in Japan 13?
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Dr. Casey » Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:43 pm

If I remember right, that's the federal age of consent but almost everywhere has a higher age of consent on a local level.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Cursed Lemon » Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:54 pm

Xeno Goku Black wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:08 pm
Cursed Lemon wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:22 pmNothing you have said excepts adding a gay character specifically.
There nothing to stop it anyway.

I'm just wondering what the purpose would be. In a series where attraction to another gay only resorts to

1. An excuse for a new character to be created (Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Pan etc).

2. An opportunity for a gag.

Them making Jiren gay would fulfill what purpose for the show? Is it merely to tick some diversity box? So nothing to do with the show itself then?
Uh relationships are for people to get invested in and further character expression lol

Making Jiren gay would be pointless but it's not the gay part, it's the "Jiren has no character" part.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:33 pm

Cursed Lemon wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:54 pmUh relationships are for people to get invested in and further character expression lol

Making Jiren gay would be pointless but it's not the gay part, it's the "Jiren has no character" part.
People are invested in Piccolo and Frieza and they've had no relationships. Future Trunks was always highly popular and until DBS it was never established if he was straight or gay.

Jiren was there as a powerful obstacle to overcome at a tournament. He fulfilled his role. Theres no saying he's going to appear again. If Toriyama came out tomorrow and said that Jiren was gay, it's not gonna change anything.

If anything the one that this topic should be about is Broly because you know he's gonna stick around.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Adamant » Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:56 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:40 pm
Dr. Casey wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:15 pm That's fair yeah. I just don't think anything involving a 16 year old could be outright pedophilia. Sleazy and creepy and wrong, but that's a bit past pedophilia age.
Isn't the age of consent in Japan 13?
Yes, in the same way the age of consent in America is 0. In both cases it's completely irrelevant because there's local laws that override it in every single state/prefecture.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Soppa Saia People » Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:54 am

Xeno Goku Black wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 4:06 pm I've seen many a comment from minorities complaining about such a thing, believing that it degrades them down to a level where they're used so that a business can tick some box for some brief media exposure or sales gimmick.

They don't want to be pandered too.

They aren't stupid you know, they know most the time it's not being done for anything genuine and they're just being used so that companies can earn some brownie points.

They're sick of it.
i mean, you can't just say a community, especially a community you don't seem apart of, is collectively sick of something. it's a complicated subject within the community, and a lot of people's voices of differing backgrounds and level of privilege are gonna have different opinions on it, and well me myself don't like my existence being tokenize, i dislike even more some random straight dude on the entire speaking for the entire queer community.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by PurestEvil » Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:37 am

Xeno Goku Black wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:19 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:08 pmAnd again you've been asked why are theoretical gay characters excluded from their lust for the same sex being played for laughs? As long as the joke is they're thirsty and not that they're gay?
Again? I answered the first time it was asked.

There is a character like that, Otokosuki. He was a gay character whose attraction to Trunks to was played as a joke similar to what Roshi and Oolong do with women.

People complain about it.
Otokosuki was designed as a stereotypical caricature of a gay man and was shown harassing Trunks. Considering how homophobic people believe that gay men are all perverts lustful for other men, it isn’t hard to see why it is problematic. Apart from, of course, it was sexual harassment, which is not funny regardless of the orientation of the perpetrator.
Roshi's sexuality isn't linked to pedophilia.
That's not my problem. General Blue wasn't called a pedophile and Roshi was an old man being a pervert towards a girl who was only 16 years of age. He was a pedophile.
It does not matter if Blue wasn’t called out as a pedo. Blue was also depicted as a misogynist and somewhat effeminate; it isn’t hard to see how he was just a stereotype as well, especially since gays being pedos is a stereotype, too.
Roshi was an ephebophile, not a pedo. Pedos are attracted to young children, whereas ephebos are attracted to adolescents. Both of them are disgusting and wrong, yes, but they are different and pedophilia is considerably worse. It would make more sense for a pervert like Roshi who likes boobies to be attracted to 16 year olds, as they tend to have developing breasts whereas <11 year olds do not.

It was also given sincere development. Toriyama let him marry a hot wife so he could have a bone thrown his way. Marron's existence, unlike Gohan, Goten, and Trunks, is completely incidental.
No it was not. He joked a few times about not having a girlfriend. He was instantly smitten by a sexy android and became obsessed after a kiss on a joke.

Add a scene where he decides to detonate a bomb and then next thing you know they're married and a new character was created from it.
It started out as a running gag, but, as you just laid out here, he actually had some character development. Considering how Krillin not detonating the bomb had an actual effect on the story, it wasn’t just meant to be a simple gag.
Hypothetical question: would you have liked it or not if Krillin was actually gay and this situation involved Android 17 in lieu of 18?
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