How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

[super michael]

Goten and Trunks have done, and still do take part in something much more than intimate than dating or fucking. They become the same person... they enjoy doing it, they have no problem just forming another person with their best friend, just for laughs.

Fucking would be a step down for them, I think. They've done much deeper things than the ol' in-n-out, lol.

By any chance have you watched Steven Universe? Basically two Gems has to be close to fuse or in love to stay fused nearly or actually 24/7.

[JulieYBM]

Goten and Trunks have done, and still do take part in something much more than intimate than dating or fucking. They become the same person... they enjoy doing it, they have no problem just forming another person with their best friend, just for laughs.

Fucking would be a step down for them, I think. They've done much deeper things than the ol' in-n-out, lol.

Fellas, is it gay to become the same person with your bro?

[MasenkoHA]

Goten and Trunks have done, and still do take part in something much more than intimate than dating or fucking. They become the same person... they enjoy doing it, they have no problem just forming another person with their best friend, just for laughs.

Fucking would be a step down for them, I think. They've done much deeper things than the ol' in-n-out, lol.

Fellas, is it gay to become the same person with your bro?

Only if they fuse with their socks off.

[MCDaveG]

Haven’t said they are gay, but if they are, would that change anything?

Also, interesting topic, fusion in general. Read some article on IGN or somewhere, that stated how Future Trunks has it really rough in Heroes, because he had to fuse with his father figures, Gohan and Vegeta!
Wow

Never crossed my mind, as in my mind, fusion is different from sex… interesting, how some people being open, share and being transparent, which basically fusion is, is tossed into to same box as sex topic in general. Taboo!
Not even medieval society was so tabooed as the modern uptight one is.
Fear of unknown, fear of being vurnerable, setting up safety zones.
Interesting.

[MCDaveG]

Goten and Trunks have done, and still do take part in something much more than intimate than dating or fucking. They become the same person... they enjoy doing it, they have no problem just forming another person with their best friend, just for laughs.

Fucking would be a step down for them, I think. They've done much deeper things than the ol' in-n-out, lol.

Fellas, is it gay to become the same person with your bro?

Only if they fuse with their socks off.

No sex involved still… but what if Gotenks jerks off?
And now this is in-universe. Are they basically two people intertwinned or do they become a new being entirelly based on Goten and Trunks input material?
Please discuss

[JulieYBM]

"They're not dating!"

Them:

[Saiya6Cit]

"They're not dating!"
Them:

Ah that scene, I always interpreted that as them continue being childish
damn it! I HATE BEING LATE, but at least I did read it all. The reading through the Black Panther was a bit off subject but ok guys...

How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
I am part of the DB fandom, and will gladly answer to your question: I would not care at all.

get banned or censored from countries where LGBT representation is not seen in the best light, to put it mildly

Maybe nonfans would care about the fact that Jiren is gay. Maybe they wont. I say DB should not take that risk, we are all witnesses on how it went for Disney. The the stocks in market value can't lie about it. I understand how some gay people might not agree with the way DB handles the gay matters but perhaps it is not up to DB to do so.

I live in the gayest city in my whole country: GDL mexico, so I am far from being homophobic since we have been raised to accept and care for the Gay since I was in kinder garden in here. Gay people is just people. I am glad they are gaining representation but I don't think it is mandatory that it happens on every single anime/tv series/movies


As per Gay representation in dragon ball...

• Captain Blue was not only gay, but also a pedophile. Why did Toriyama chose to include a character like him? that should be the question we all should be truly asking.
  The one in the torunament it is obvious it was for humoristic purposes.
  Whiz from DBS does not seem very manly to me but I guess being a sort of angel he would have no gender, same as namekians.

Maybe Goten is.

He had a girlfriend in GT. Trunks on the other hand we did not know of any. Yes I am not taking Mai into account because I said I am talking about GT. I can't see how Goten is gay in the anime. Gohan was very feminine when younger. Many people think maybe Future Trunks is Gay. And if he is, could it be that Present Trunks isn't? Also freezer? really? then you will say also Zarbon was.

Caulifla and Kale. I have not watched Super, but I don't think there is anything explicit (canon) that can confirm they are a lesbian couple.

Some people say Pan is a lesbian because of the way she dresses. I say she is manly because she used to spend lots of time with Mr. Satan. Videl was not very feminine either. Bulma may dress very girly but in her attitude she isn't either. The only woman who acts as a traditional woman role is Chichi. I don't think the way Pan is means she is homosexual or trans or lesbian.Your thoughts?

[Ashur]

Kefla can actually back it up, though.

Well the same could be said about Vegetto, GT Gogeta and even Gotenks beat up Buu, they were the strongest when they were active, but they are all sort of egotistical, and in many ways that is their undoing actually, if Gotenks was more serious he would have finished Buu off, if Gogeta didin't mess around with Yi Shin Long he would have saved the day, and Kefla underestimated Goku which gave him enough time to reach UI sign.

Gotenks and Gogeta (GT) are pretty bad characters, I agree, but I don't think that we can say the same thing about Kefla. Kefla was the culmination of two character arcs and while she was certainly confident in her own strength and wanting to push it as far as possible Gotenks and Gogeta (GT) were far more interested in just fucking around.

I don't understand why you think i'm implying that them having a big ego makes them bad characters, it's a fun quirk of fusion characters, their power skyrockets far beyond the two characters they are made of so they become egotistical.

[DiloVortexx]

"They're not dating!"

Them:

Spoiler:

top ten images i can hear (thanks scott frerichs /lh)

but yeah my thoughts on this topic as a queer person myself? i think it would be cool if jiren was gay i mean we do need more positive rep in this series but we know toei, shueisha, toriyama etc. are cowards abt doing representation that isnt.. kinda wack.. (kale and caulifla and whis are good tho even if they're not 100% confirmed.. like dude come tf on whis is absolutely queer in some kind of aspect (whether its gender identity or sexuality related) hes just.. a bit fruity /ref
and kale and caulifla are straight up lesbians just look at how they interact in canon)

even if jiren isnt the most complex character more positive representation is very appreciated and also shows that finally they are willing to change and make a breakthrough in the shonen anime world regarding a series so overtly masc as dragon ball having positive queer representation (as if there isnt already some.. homoeroticism at play with the overall prospect of fighting espec. with how it can help build trust and feelings of excitement between the two or more characters battling.. i mean must we even get into the majin vegeta vs. gokû fight and how.. blatantly queercoded that shit was)

so having a very masc character like jiren being gay/bi/pan etc. would not only help shatter the stereotypes that all queer people are effeminate and speak in lisps.. but that they can be muscular and strong (doing this with a chubby character would also be good! ribrianne has always given me lgbtq+ vibes and i find her to be such an adorable and fun character so if she wouldve been actually queer that wouldve made me a lot more happy : D) and still love the same sex/gender as them! (or if ur an enby, literally everything is gay for you)

[JulieYBM]

Well the same could be said about Vegetto, GT Gogeta and even Gotenks beat up Buu, they were the strongest when they were active, but they are all sort of egotistical, and in many ways that is their undoing actually, if Gotenks was more serious he would have finished Buu off, if Gogeta didin't mess around with Yi Shin Long he would have saved the day, and Kefla underestimated Goku which gave him enough time to reach UI sign.

Gotenks and Gogeta (GT) are pretty bad characters, I agree, but I don't think that we can say the same thing about Kefla. Kefla was the culmination of two character arcs and while she was certainly confident in her own strength and wanting to push it as far as possible Gotenks and Gogeta (GT) were far more interested in just fucking around.

I don't understand why you think i'm implying that them having a big ego makes them bad characters, it's a fun quirk of fusion characters, their power skyrockets far beyond the two characters they are made of so they become egotistical.

What makes Gotenks and Gogeta bad characters is the fact that they have no arcs nor are they a part of particularly good character arcs for the involved characters. There was no big, lasting change or evolution for Trunks and Goten and Gokuu and Vegeta as characters and there was no emotional investment in seeing the fusions succeed. With Kefla there's that emotional investment in wanting to see Kale and Caulifla succeed because they've finally synched up with one another as a pairing and are fighting a foe that outclasses them, even after achieving fusion.

Gotenks and Gogeta show up on screen and I instantly zone out. There's some funny gags with Gotenks but there's I have zero interest in them as characters. I don't want to see their growth or their downfall. They're boring. Now, had Toriyama given Gotenks an arc? Sure, cool. Maybe Goten maintains some damned angst over not being able to protect his mom against Majin Buu turning her into an egg? Maybe we see Goten struggle with a desire to get out of his brother and Gokuu's shadows? Maybe Trunks has to struggle with the fact that his natural-born power is actually not enough and seeing his dad die so easily has shaken his confidence?

[DiloVortexx]

Now, had Toriyama given Gotenks an arc? Sure, cool. Maybe Goten maintains some damned angst over not being able to protect his mom against Majin Buu turning her into an egg? Maybe we see Goten struggle with a desire to get out of his brother and Gokuu's shadows? Maybe Trunks has to struggle with the fact that his natural-born power is actually not enough and seeing his dad die so easily has shaken his confidence?

OH YEAH those wouldve been cool and couldve given more emotional impact and reasons as to why gotenks even became a thing in the first place and why they act out the way they do in said fusion.... *CASUALLY WRITES THESE DOWN AS NOTES FOR MY REWRITE AU /HJ*

i personally like both gotenks and gogeta as characters bc i can find their ego charming but yea i do wish they had more motive and reasons for the things they do
now i know dragon ball isnt meant to be a super complex series narratively so i guess???? i can understand why they didnt like.. write them to have pretty emotional reasons for why they do the things they do?? but also hrngh the angst side of me wishes to see them try to learn and grow from rage or other complex emotions while in their fusion forms just like when gokû and vegeta went super saiyan for the first time
(again more things for me to note down for my au)

[JulieYBM]

Now, had Toriyama given Gotenks an arc? Sure, cool. Maybe Goten maintains some damned angst over not being able to protect his mom against Majin Buu turning her into an egg? Maybe we see Goten struggle with a desire to get out of his brother and Gokuu's shadows? Maybe Trunks has to struggle with the fact that his natural-born power is actually not enough and seeing his dad die so easily has shaken his confidence?

OH YEAH those wouldve been cool and couldve given more emotional impact and reasons as to why gotenks even became a thing in the first place and why they act out the way they do in said fusion.... *CASUALLY WRITES THESE DOWN AS NOTES FOR MY REWRITE AU /HJ*

i personally like both gotenks and gogeta as characters bc i can find their ego charming but yea i do wish they had more motive and reasons for the things they do
now i know dragon ball isnt meant to be a super complex series narratively so i guess???? i can understand why they didnt like.. write them to have pretty emotional reasons for why they do the things they do?? but also hrngh the angst side of me wishes to see them try to learn and grow from rage or other complex emotions while in their fusion forms just like when gokû and vegeta went super saiyan for the first time
(again more things for me to note down for my au)

The thing is, when Toriyama attempts to subvert expectations he winds up just creating his own expectations. That is to say, break the rules too many times and suddenly breaking the rules is in fact following the rules. It's a definitely double-edged sword that I don't think is criticized enough or even brought to Toriyama's attention.

Furthermore, subverting expectations doesn't necessarily make a better comic. Things like character conflict and development are used so much in storytelling because they're useful tools. Toriyama needs to be more careful with which tool he uses at what point because if he isn't you wind up with toothless messes that are just boring to read or watch.

[DiloVortexx]

The thing is, when Toriyama attempts to subvert expectations he winds up just creating his own expectations. That is to say, break the rules too many times and suddenly breaking the rules is in fact following the rules. It's a definitely double-edged sword that I don't think is criticized enough or even brought to Toriyama's attention.

Furthermore, subverting expectations doesn't necessarily make a better comic. Things like character conflict and development are used so much in storytelling because they're useful tools. Toriyama needs to be more careful with which tool he uses at what point because if he isn't you wind up with toothless messes that are just boring to read or watch.

yep, unfortunately so true with dragon ball like having a mix of subverting expectations and then having things you could expect makes for interesting media in a.. correct way?? (idk the words to use bc english language hard even as a native speaker but i hope you can understand what i'm trying to say here ASKDJKDJGK) thats the good shit

like yes, writing an interesting story with colourful personalities and characters that is engaging every time you come back to it is hard believe me i would know as i have multiple projects for my universe that are in development hell for those kinds of reasons (AND THEY'RE INSPIRED BY DRAGON BALL SO OOPS JSDKFJS) but this is a good take to listen to bc it does matter even if you wanna make ur story simple or complex those tools are there to be used sparingly for a reason, but use certain tools so much espec. during one section of a story and its either going to be very confusing or just boring

ig thats why so many ppl have issues with the boo arc is for those kinds of reasons?? (i do love the slice of life stuff from the boo arc and seeing gohan growing up and meeting someone he loves that he ends up having conviction with (well that is until videl gets turned into Dragon Ball Wife #200,000 but you know what i mean lol) makes me feel better abt being awkward and out of place around others bc i mean.. gohan is a half saiyan half human hybrid so .. alien in school setting with humans? yea i can imagine that being hard
also there is how he's always given me neurodivergent vibes but thats another story for another day)

also whoopsie my rambling got off topic LOL

[BeaBumby]

The thing is, when Toriyama attempts to subvert expectations he winds up just creating his own expectations. That is to say, break the rules too many times and suddenly breaking the rules is in fact following the rules. It's a definitely double-edged sword that I don't think is criticized enough or even brought to Toriyama's attention.

Furthermore, subverting expectations doesn't necessarily make a better comic. Things like character conflict and development are used so much in storytelling because they're useful tools. Toriyama needs to be more careful with which tool he uses at what point because if he isn't you wind up with toothless messes that are just boring to read or watch.

i do love the slice of life stuff from the boo arc and seeing gohan growing up

I love the saiyaman saga, I genuinely wish there were more of it I just wanna see Gohan and Videl goof around it's so so fun, man.

[DiloVortexx]

i do love the slice of life stuff from the boo arc and seeing gohan growing up

I love the saiyaman saga, I genuinely wish there were more of it I just wanna see Gohan and Videl goof around it's so so fun, man.

OH SAME,,, seeing these characters that usually are seen fighting others and being Shonen Protags™ doing normal activities like going to school, exploring urban areas and such? cheers i drink to that too sis /ref
and also being goofy superheroes too? yes please i love gohan and videl being lovable dorks helping to save people

[Asin]

Okay, so. Disregarding the argument I saw take place earlier and the like in regards to DB and representation of the LGBTQ+ (with an emphasis on the G earlier in that argument), I would not give two shits if Jiren were gay. I'd be like "Oh, I see." and then move on with my life. This is coming from someone who is bisexual, btw.

[DBZAOTA482]

"They're not dating!"

Them:

That's some Majin Boo reaching right there.

[Ashur]

Gotenks and Gogeta (GT) are pretty bad characters, I agree, but I don't think that we can say the same thing about Kefla. Kefla was the culmination of two character arcs and while she was certainly confident in her own strength and wanting to push it as far as possible Gotenks and Gogeta (GT) were far more interested in just fucking around.

I don't understand why you think i'm implying that them having a big ego makes them bad characters, it's a fun quirk of fusion characters, their power skyrockets far beyond the two characters they are made of so they become egotistical.

What makes Gotenks and Gogeta bad characters is the fact that they have no arcs nor are they a part of particularly good character arcs for the involved characters. There was no big, lasting change or evolution for Trunks and Goten and Gokuu and Vegeta as characters and there was no emotional investment in seeing the fusions succeed. With Kefla there's that emotional investment in wanting to see Kale and Caulifla succeed because they've finally synched up with one another as a pairing and are fighting a foe that outclasses them, even after achieving fusion.

Gotenks and Gogeta show up on screen and I instantly zone out. There's some funny gags with Gotenks but there's I have zero interest in them as characters. I don't want to see their growth or their downfall. They're boring. Now, had Toriyama given Gotenks an arc? Sure, cool. Maybe Goten maintains some damned angst over not being able to protect his mom against Majin Buu turning her into an egg? Maybe we see Goten struggle with a desire to get out of his brother and Gokuu's shadows? Maybe Trunks has to struggle with the fact that his natural-born power is actually not enough and seeing his dad die so easily has shaken his confidence?

I disagree, i think GT Gogeta and Gotenks are good complements to the arcs of the characters and the story as a whole, with Gotenks you get a follow-up to what was originally set up with Goten and Trunks' powers, the newest generation is reaching heights of power that rivals the more experienced fighters in far less time, Goten reaches Super Saiyan in a heartbeat while Goku went through multiple trials and power ups to reach that level, same with Trunks, who reaches the form his father struggled years to obtain and dreamed of obtaining for most of his life, they are innately powerful, the most powerful option they have once Gohan is out of the picture, but act like typical children, Gotenks is the culmination of that, it shows that regardless of the potential they had they didin't have the spirit to be able to defeat Buu, they were too childish and didin't take the fight seriously, even when he hated Buu because of what he did to his two moms, that only made him more petty.

With GT Gogeta the fusion is a culmination of Vegeta's character, before he hated fusing because of his dislike for Goku, and had to be convinced every time to do it due to his big ego, but now, a more mature and wisened Vegeta is the one that suggests fusing, it is a nice character moment, and the overwhelming power that results is the "reward" for Vegeta's good decision, with the drawback that the power was too much and the fusion too short, his arrogance is a good mix of Vegeta's pride and Goku's childish traits, but even that was partially an act so he could eliminate the negative energy from the planet, so Gogeta shows good intelligence mid-fight much like what Vegetto does against Buu.

[super michael]

"They're not dating!"

Them:

This is what is mentioned in the manga:

Trunks: Goten, I hear you've been training. Are you gonna enter?
Goten: I didn't want to, but dad's making me. And I had a date tomorrow too.
Goku: Quit whining. You can go on a date any day.

Nothing there implies Goten and Trunks are dating. Goten says he had a date tomorrow, not that they had a date tomorrow.

Then in GT we see who Goten dates and in DBS we see who Trunks is interested with. We see Future Trunks who he is in love with.

Them acting like brothers or close friends doesn't mean they are dating.

[JulieYBM]

And the vibes of the gif I posted clearly scream "we makeout between dating girls" so I don't see the issue here.