How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:48 pm

The author is literally coding Blue as gay and then referring to him as such through the characters.

We're queer, not stupid. We know how to read between the lines when we're being mocked.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:55 pm

JulieYBM wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:48 pm The author is literally coding Blue as gay and then referring to him as such through the characters.

We're queer, not stupid. We know how to read between the lines when we're being mocked.
I get what you're saying but to me, Blue seemed more like a narcissistic than a gay man in the manga.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:03 pm

I doubt most people would have cared, but some people will probably have a hissy fit about it. At least, he is not a flameboyant type of character as seen with General Blue.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:46 pm

Yeah, Blue is the epitome of prejudice against homosexuals. I'm not gay but he is insulting, that's obvious.

Jiren, on the other hand, would be kind of a waste if he were to be gay. He clearly is beyond sexuality, he is only strenght-oriented, and boring as fuck. Nothing would change really, it'd be like giving a car another wheel that it won't use or need.
Or it could work, I dunno, being gay doesn't have to mean you have to do anything about it, but I guess I'd choose a more interesting character for it, one that is more than just power level, somebody people could relate to. It would break away from the typical gay = weak trope, though. Call this guy a fruit, see how that turns out.
But who am I to say this character works or does not work for gay representation?

Anyway, I wouldn't care, but I'd rather have Granola be gay. He interacts a little more with people, has a more interesting background and personality. Caulifla and Kale, those two would be great as lesbians. Maybe somebody that could be around the gang a little more.

The older fanbase will freak out, probably, some of them. The younger generations don't seem to have issues about the subject, but that's an uneducated generalization.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:02 pm

The sources of resistance would just be a small, vocal minority. Dragon Ball unfortunately attracts a lot of cishet men who are insecure in their sexuality and gender and review differing from those norms as a threat to them. It's quite funny how we seem to have replaced "it's not cartoons mom, it's ANIME" with "it's not gay, it's MANLY and I'm totally a NORMAL, MANYLY MAN who DOESN'T watch kids shows!"

Make Jiren queer! Make everyone queer! Let's make bigots feel unsafe in our fandom spaces so that we can continue to be safe.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:30 pm

Why is it like nobody listening to me?

Just because Krillin and Bulma say something doesn't make it factual. They're not the best judges of character definitely not at that era of the series.

The joke is that they think General Blue is gay but he's really a narcissist thus hates slobbering and crass-flirting.

Are you guys insinuating that Bulma (who was trying to cheat on her then-boyfriend) is the perfect woman and that any man that rejects her is automatically gay?
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Majin Buu » Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:08 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:30 pm Why is it like nobody listening to me?
Maybe because people don't agree with you?

For me, it comes off like you're using "it wasn't directly stated" as an excuse to be contrarian when the character is obviously designed to be coded as a gay man.
Last edited by Majin Buu on Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:11 pm

General Blue's characterization in the manga gave me the impression that he is a gemaphobic, narcissistic pretty boy pansy obsessed with cleanliness. Certainly moreso than implying he actually IS gay or that is what Toriyama was intending with the writing. Of course that was my personal takeaway and others will have different interpretations.

The anime OTOH...yeeeeeaahh that scene of him staring at Obotchaman is majorly disturbing. I don't know what the hell they were thinking there because it's so obvious what's going on in the Japanese version and him saying "my type" plus using the identifier pronoun "watashi" before that in an effeminate manner considering that it's what women in Japan used to refer to themselves personally while men largely use "boku wa". FUNimation tried to tone it down as best they could in the dub with the "long lost brother" rewrite but the animation still gives away what's really happening.
Last edited by SuperSaiyaManZ94 on Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:27 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:30 pm Why is it like nobody listening to me?
Because you're wrong?
Just because Krillin and Bulma say something doesn't make it factual. They're not the best judges of character definitely not at that era of the series.
But nothing says they're wrong. Your whole argument is just "Well Blue didn't outright say he was gay"

The joke is that they think General Blue is gay but he's really a narcissist thus hates slobbering and crass-flirting.
No the joke is that he's gay.
Are you guys insinuating that Bulma (who was trying to cheat on her then-boyfriend) is the perfect woman and that any man that rejects her is automatically gay?
1. I am struggling to figure why Bulma trying to cheat on her then boyfriend is relevant to this discussion? Nobody was claiming Bulma was a woman of virtue. What does that have to do with anything?

2. . The whole joke is because he's gay he's grossed out by Bulma's very feminine body. (Nevermind she's underage) Nobody has insinuate anything. That is quite literally the joke.
Last edited by MasenkoHA on Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:28 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:30 pm Why is it like nobody listening to me?

Just because Krillin and Bulma say something doesn't make it factual. They're not the best judges of character definitely not at that era of the series.

The joke is that they think General Blue is gay but he's really a narcissist thus hates slobbering and crass-flirting.

Are you guys insinuating that Bulma (who was trying to cheat on her then-boyfriend) is the perfect woman and that any man that rejects her is automatically gay?
I'm saying Dragon Ball is misogynistic and homophobic.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:41 pm

JulieYBM wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:28 pm
DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:30 pm Why is it like nobody listening to me?

Just because Krillin and Bulma say something doesn't make it factual. They're not the best judges of character definitely not at that era of the series.

The joke is that they think General Blue is gay but he's really a narcissist thus hates slobbering and crass-flirting.

Are you guys insinuating that Bulma (who was trying to cheat on her then-boyfriend) is the perfect woman and that any man that rejects her is automatically gay?
I'm saying Dragon Ball is misogynistic and homophobic.
Dragon Ball is indeed problematic and not so noble with some of its content at times, i agree. Though at the same time i don't think Toriyama was intentionally trying for it to be (of course, it's hard to judge on that for someone who's a recluse and largely out of the public eye) either of those things with malicious intent in terms of writing. Of course, seeing as this is a manga series that was written in the '80s/'90s by said mangaka who lives in Japan which has much different views on these topics culturally than other places in the western world do.

While a good few out there likely do see these kinds of things as misogynystic and homophobic, it's just as likely that Japan at large doesn't see it that way or certainly not to quite the extent as other countries do through a cultural lens.
Last edited by SuperSaiyaManZ94 on Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:47 pm

The characters say what the author wants them to say. It wasn't Krilin or Bulma saying that, it was Toriyama.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Jiren The Alpha » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:07 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:16 am
Jiren The Alpha wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:06 am I don't get why people use General Blue as an example for how bad gay people are treated in Dragon Ball, when he was one of the strongest members of the RR and actualy won against Goku and Krillin, even krillin said that he was strong and Blue only lost because of Goku's plot armor (or the Cereal Dragon Balls lol). .
Idk probably something to do with the pedophile scene or the general portrayal of being a sissy who gets afraid of a mouse and Bulma acting sexy (because she's a woman and not because she's minor)

That might be why people don't like Blue's portrayal as a gay man in Dragon Ball idk
My point was that Blue was a threat (again I'm only talking about the manga and not TOEI's shitty pedo filler scene), he didn't get the worst humiliation like most of the RR guys and he beat Krillin and Goku who needed a deus ex machina too win. And Musophobia is a thing btw, so imo this isn't that bad for a character that was created in the 80's, could still be better.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:12 pm

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:41 pm
JulieYBM wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:28 pm
DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:30 pm Why is it like nobody listening to me?

Just because Krillin and Bulma say something doesn't make it factual. They're not the best judges of character definitely not at that era of the series.

The joke is that they think General Blue is gay but he's really a narcissist thus hates slobbering and crass-flirting.

Are you guys insinuating that Bulma (who was trying to cheat on her then-boyfriend) is the perfect woman and that any man that rejects her is automatically gay?
I'm saying Dragon Ball is misogynistic and homophobic.
Dragon Ball is indeed problematic and not so noble with some of its content at times, i agree. Though at the same time i don't think Toriyama was intentionally trying for it to be (of course, it's hard to judge on that for someone who's a recluse and largely out of the public eye) either of those things with malicious intent in terms of writing. Of course, seeing as this is a manga series that was written in the '80s/'90s by said mangaka who lives in Japan which has much different views on these topics culturally than other places in the western world do.

While a good few out there likely do see these kinds of things as misogynystic and homophobic, it's just as likely that Japan at large doesn't see it that way or certainly not to quite the extent as other countries do through a cultural lens.
Intentional maliciousness or not is irrelevant. This shit is bad and needs to stop happening. Nobody gets a pass because the comic is from the 1980s, it still gets to be called out for its bullshit. We must always be aware of history to prevent repeating it and that means calling this shit bad, no exceptions.

Japan has feminists and queer people, too. Whether a majority of cishet people are fine with this nonsense is irrelevant because innocent humans beings still suffer from this nonsense.

It's bad. It sucks. They need to stop doing it. It's super easy.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:13 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:27 pm But nothing says they're wrong.
Except Blue got offended when they called him gay. A true gay man wouldn't get offended.
1. I am struggling to figure why Bulma trying to cheat on her then boyfriend is relevant to this discussion? Nobody was claiming Bulma was a woman of virtue. What does that have to do with anything?
Saying how quickly you guys take things at face value, I would assume that's the case. I mean Bulma clearly acted very inappropriately towards Blue. No class or subtly whatsoever.
2. . The whole joke is because he's gay he's grossed out by Bulma's very feminine body. (Nevermind she's underage) Nobody has insinuate anything. That is quite literally the joke.
He was also grossed out by blood and mice. It was more Bulma's behavior that grossed him out then her being female.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:19 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:13 pm
He was also grossed out by blood and mice. It was more Bulma's behavior that grossed him out then her being female.
"Gay men are wimps" is a stereotype and clearly rhe one being played.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Jiren The Alpha » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:22 pm

JulieYBM wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:17 am
Jiren The Alpha wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:06 am I don't get why people use General Blue as an example for how bad gay people are treated in Dragon Ball, when he was one of the strongest members of the RR and actualy won against Goku and Krillin, even krillin said that he was strong and Blue only lost because of Goku's plot armor (or the Cereal Dragon Balls lol). Most of the RR human members got one shotted and Mursaki got a pole up his ass unlike Blue who got beat by the best assasin on earth (and Arale who could break the earth with one punch). I would say thats pretty good for a gay character created in the 80's (am only talking about the manga version and not the Toei one).

But anyway, if Jiren was gay then the the fanbase would rage quit because of him being a homosexual and more "manly" looking then they would ever be.
Don't make your one canonically queer character a Nazi.

Don't leave your protagonist characters' homophobia toward said Nazi without criticism.

Don't make your monosexual gay character a pedophile in the cartoon adaption.

Really easy shit to do. Supremely easy.
Blue is a nazi? That sounds weird, especally when he takes orders from a black guy, but even if he was, that sounds like a ironic joke form Toriyama.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:25 pm

Wouldn’t even slightly change my opinion of Jiren, I’d still think he sucks and boring as hell.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:30 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:25 pm Wouldn’t even slightly change my opinion of Jiren, I’d still think he sucks and boring as hell.
This really should be the /thread moment.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by super michael » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:41 pm

General Blue acting like a pedo, is it a Dragon Ball episode or a Dr Slump episode? If it is Dr Slump episode, then I guess that explains why I don't know. If it is a Dragon Ball episode, then I guess I can't remember.

I am aware it is a cross over, but if it is a Dr Slump episode, then that would mean it isn't on Dragon Ball.

It is like how Dragon Ball, Toriko and One Piece had a cross over, but isn't a Dragon Ball Z episode.

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