How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:48 pm

super michael wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:41 pm General Blue acting like a pedo, is it a Dragon Ball episode or a Dr Slump episode? If it is Dr Slump episode, then I guess that explains why I don't know. If it is a Dragon Ball episode, then I guess I can't remember.

I am aware it is a cross over, but if it is a Dr Slump episode, then that would mean it isn't on Dragon Ball.

It is like how Dragon Ball, Toriko and One Piece had a cross over, but isn't a Dragon Ball Z episode.
Dragon Ball episode 56
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by super michael » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:50 pm

VegettoEX wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:48 pm
super michael wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:41 pm General Blue acting like a pedo, is it a Dragon Ball episode or a Dr Slump episode? If it is Dr Slump episode, then I guess that explains why I don't know. If it is a Dragon Ball episode, then I guess I can't remember.

I am aware it is a cross over, but if it is a Dr Slump episode, then that would mean it isn't on Dragon Ball.

It is like how Dragon Ball, Toriko and One Piece had a cross over, but isn't a Dragon Ball Z episode.
Dragon Ball episode 56
Thanks for the episode number, I will check it later. I can't believe that I can't remember. I have seen it in multiple dubs multiple times.
I guess after a certain time of not watching, somethings are forgotten.
Last edited by super michael on Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by PurestEvil » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:51 pm

Jiren The Alpha wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:22 pm Blue is a nazi? That sounds weird, especally when he takes orders from a black guy, but even if he was, that sounds like a ironic joke form Toriyama.
His whole outfit is reminiscent of the Nazi SA's (brownshirts) uniform.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Jiren The Alpha » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:54 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:51 pm
Jiren The Alpha wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:22 pm Blue is a nazi? That sounds weird, especally when he takes orders from a black guy, but even if he was, that sounds like a ironic joke form Toriyama.
His whole outfit is reminiscent of the Nazi SA's (brownshirts) uniform.
Yeah but he is not REALLY a nazi, just like Oolong is not really a communist even tho he has the outfit.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by BeaBumby » Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:02 pm

As a gayass myself, I wouldn't really care much, as I don't have any emotional connection to Jiren. But I feel it would still be benefitial to the gay community, since there hasn't really been any gay characters before that weren't just stereotypes.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by ankokudaishogun » Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:03 pm

Jiren The Alpha wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:54 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:51 pm
Jiren The Alpha wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:22 pm Blue is a nazi? That sounds weird, especally when he takes orders from a black guy, but even if he was, that sounds like a ironic joke form Toriyama.
His whole outfit is reminiscent of the Nazi SA's (brownshirts) uniform.
Yeah but he is not REALLY a nazi, just like Oolong is not really a communist even tho he has the outfit.
of course Oolong is a red! He's a literal commie pig!

Also, I'm surprised people were SO sexist to decide Bulma was inappropriate in her advances on Blue: she's a strong independent woman and can hit on whatever person she likes however she likes!

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:03 pm

Jiren The Alpha wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:54 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:51 pm
Jiren The Alpha wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:22 pm Blue is a nazi? That sounds weird, especally when he takes orders from a black guy, but even if he was, that sounds like a ironic joke form Toriyama.
His whole outfit is reminiscent of the Nazi SA's (brownshirts) uniform.
Yeah but he is not REALLY a nazi, just like Oolong is not really a communist even tho he has the outfit.
This is the "The crows from Dumbo aren't REALLY black people" argument a lot of you like to do.

Just because someone in fiction isn't literally the thing they're meant to invoke doesn't mean the connotations weren't put in there for a reason.

I wouldn't go as far as say Toriyama was making the connection gay=nazi but General Blue is very clearly meant to be a stand in for a nazi regardless.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by PurestEvil » Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:07 pm

Jiren The Alpha wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:54 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:51 pm
Jiren The Alpha wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:22 pm Blue is a nazi? That sounds weird, especally when he takes orders from a black guy, but even if he was, that sounds like a ironic joke form Toriyama.
His whole outfit is reminiscent of the Nazi SA's (brownshirts) uniform.
Yeah but he is not REALLY a nazi, just like Oolong is not really a communist even tho he has the outfit.
Blue is wearing a uniform of a real-life evil military organization while serving an evil military organization himself. He may not have gone on racist tirades, but he is definitely presented as a Nazi caricature.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:08 pm

BeaBumby wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:02 pm , since there hasn't really been any gay characters before that weren't just stereotypes.
Does Kale really fall into sapphic stereotypes?

And I guess arguments can be if he actually is or isn't but Whis is a good example of a character who is stereotypically gay or "gay-coded" but that isn't treated as a negative or a joke.

Stereotypes in and of themselves aren't bad, it's what you're trying to say with those stereotypes.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by BeaBumby » Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:16 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:08 pm
BeaBumby wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:02 pm since there hasn't really been any gay characters before that weren't just stereotypes.
Does Kale really fall into sapphic stereotypes?
Wait holy shit Kale is canonically sapphic? That's rad, man.

Also yeah Whis is cool, I was just thinking about the other gay characters people brought up and he hadn't crossed my mind
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:45 pm

Kale and Caulifla fall under "we can't say it because we're not allowed to portray queerness as acceptable to kids but come the fuck on, we all know what these codes mean".
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:43 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:03 pm
Also, I'm surprised people were SO sexist to decide Bulma was inappropriate in her advances on Blue: she's a strong independent woman and can hit on whatever person she likes however she likes!
Please tell me you’re kidding.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:52 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:03 pm Also, I'm surprised people were SO sexist to decide Bulma was inappropriate in her advances on Blue: she's a strong independent woman and can hit on whatever person she likes however she likes!
If you think it's normal for women to act like horny animals then I'd say you're the sexist one.
Last edited by DBZAOTA482 on Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:55 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:03 pm Also, I'm surprised people were SO sexist to decide Bulma was inappropriate in her advances on Blue: she's a strong independent woman and can hit on whatever person she likes however she likes!
Honey she was seventeen and this is a children's franchise made and controlled by cishet men, you're not going to be getting a 'gotcha' on anybody.

Toriyama made a bad decision writing and drawing that scene, Torishima made a bad decision approving that scene, publishing made a bad decision publishing that scene, Toei Animation made a bad decision adapting that scene into their cartoon.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by WittyUsername » Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:47 pm

The idea of Kale and Caulifla being sapphic is vague enough that people can pretty much read into their relationship either way, and it apparently wasn’t even part of Toriyama’s outline. It was purely something that Toei came up with.

Regardless, there generally seems to be more of a stigma against men on men relationships when compared to lesbian relationships. I mean, for all the progress that children’s entertainment has made in the past decade when it comes to depicting queerness, most of the noteworthy examples have specifically involved lesbian relationships. With that in mind, Jiren being gay would probably piss certain people off, particularly the people who always like to gush about how non-woke Japanese entertainment is.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:06 pm

The same men complaining about Bridget from Guilty Gear coming out as a trans girl instead of being a cis boy pretty much tells us what to expect from, say, Jiren being a men-loving-man. It's really upsetting to see how the internet is tailormade to allow voices like those to overtake the voices of marginalized people celebrating new representation for them.

Ironically, it's these same men that wouldn't have as much an issue with Kale and Caulifla kissing because of how they fetishize Sapphic women. Well, until they're bisexual women who cross them, then they just abuse them. :|

With the amount of Caulifla x Cabba fan art I see I kind of dread seeing how many of those fan artists would get angry if Kale x Caulifla ever got to be more openly together.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by BeaBumby » Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:19 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:06 pm The same men complaining about Bridget from Guilty Gear coming out as a trans girl instead of being a cis boy pretty much tells us what to expect from, say, Jiren being a men-loving-man. It's really upsetting to see how the internet is tailormade to allow voices like those to overtake the voices of marginalized people celebrating new representation for them.

Ironically, it's these same men that wouldn't have as much an issue with Kale and Caulifla kissing because of how they fetishize Sapphic women. Well, until they're bisexual women who cross them, then they just abuse them. :|

With the amount of Caulifla x Cabba fan art I see I kind of dread seeing how many of those fan artists would get angry if Kale x Caulifla ever got to be more openly together.
HOLY SHIT THERE'S A TRANS GIRL IN GUILTY GEAR?? THATS FUCKIN SICK

anyway so if Kale and Caulifla are lesbians does that mean Kefla loves herself
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by ChronoTwigger » Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:20 pm

To be honest, I always tought since childhood that Blue was *totally* gay.

The internet is full of strange people that cannot part a parody from a representation, and cannot part intents of a denigration and intents of a parody. They cannot even understand that the web is not USA alone, or the world didn't started with their Internet, living in digital metatime.

So, what the theme about? Having a strong gay character in DB?
You have it already.
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FRIEZA IS GAY.
He's obviously gay, he doesn't behave etero at all.
Frieza is the most gay of the universe.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Majin Man 101 » Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:11 am

1/3rd of the fanbase would absolutely love it, 1/3rd will hate it, and 1/3 would be indifferent.

And then the age of analyzing Dragon Ball for its politics will begin. There will be whole channels dedicated to how Dragon Balls characters could be non binary, or trans or whatever. And then there will be channels nit picking every episode for being woke. And then everyone who watched it will be slightly annoyed that every time there is a Dragon Ball discussion someone will insert politics into it, and then the fanbase will spiral into never ending arguments.

I thought it was fairly obvious what was going on with the two Saiyan lesbian girls in the tournament of power arc but I have had people tell me I’m misunderstanding their relationship. I guess the writing is so bad it wouldn’t be hard to misunderstand it. However, since it wasn’t made “blatantly” made clear, I think it made everyone take a double take on it because it is very odd indeed whatever is going on there,or not?

Honestly I think it would blow up the internet either way.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:24 am

Majin Man 101 wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:11 am

I thought it was fairly obvious what was going on with the two Saiyan lesbian girls in the tournament of power arc but I have had people tell me I’m misunderstanding their relationship. I guess the writing is so bad it wouldn’t be hard to misunderstand it. However, since it wasn’t made “blatantly” made clear, I think it made everyone take a double take on it because it is very odd indeed whatever is going on there,or not?

Honestly I think it would blow up the internet either way.
I can sort of understand people interpretating Caulifa as not a woman loving woman. But I don't know how anyone could read Kale as anything other than a lesbian in love with her one and only.

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