How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:08 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:24 am
Majin Man 101 wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:11 am

I thought it was fairly obvious what was going on with the two Saiyan lesbian girls in the tournament of power arc but I have had people tell me I’m misunderstanding their relationship. I guess the writing is so bad it wouldn’t be hard to misunderstand it. However, since it wasn’t made “blatantly” made clear, I think it made everyone take a double take on it because it is very odd indeed whatever is going on there,or not?

Honestly I think it would blow up the internet either way.
I can sort of understand people interpretating Caulifa as not a woman loving woman. But I don't know how anyone could read Kale as anything other than a lesbian in love with her one and only.
Isn’t that a dub line? She just calls Caulifla ‘sis’ in the Japanese version.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Ashur » Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:15 am

If it canonizes ToppoxJiren i'm all for it :wink:

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Majin Man 101 » Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:18 am

WittyUsername wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:08 am
MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:24 am
Majin Man 101 wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:11 am

I thought it was fairly obvious what was going on with the two Saiyan lesbian girls in the tournament of power arc but I have had people tell me I’m misunderstanding their relationship. I guess the writing is so bad it wouldn’t be hard to misunderstand it. However, since it wasn’t made “blatantly” made clear, I think it made everyone take a double take on it because it is very odd indeed whatever is going on there,or not?

Honestly I think it would blow up the internet either way.
I can sort of understand people interpretating Caulifa as not a woman loving woman. But I don't know how anyone could read Kale as anything other than a lesbian in love with her one and only.
Isn’t that a dub line? She just calls Caulifla ‘sis’ in the Japanese version.
I am not aware, I have never seen the English dub of super, all I know is that there was definitely going more going on there than just sisterly vibes.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:43 am

'Ane-san' isn't literally 'sisters related by blood'. Caulifla leads a gang, so calling her 'ane-san' is like calling her the 'bis sis'or 'boss' of the gang. Kale's arc is that she learns to go from watching the back of the woman she loves to standing by her side.

Anyway, they're totally Sapphic. Sapphic relationships don't look like relationships between men and women so unless you're Sapphic you're probably going to have a hard time deciphering the vibes.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by PurestEvil » Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:58 am

BeaBumby wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:19 pm anyway so if Kale and Caulifla are lesbians does that mean Kefla loves herself
tbf all the saiyan fusions "love" themselves to an extent :lol:
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:09 am

Universe Six surrounding Kefla and congratulating her for learning to love herself like the end of Evangelion TV Episode #26: "Omedetou!"
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Ashur » Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:52 am

PurestEvil wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:58 am
BeaBumby wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:19 pm anyway so if Kale and Caulifla are lesbians does that mean Kefla loves herself
tbf all the saiyan fusions "love" themselves to an extent :lol:
They love themselves a little too much i would say lol.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:55 am

Ashur wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:52 am
PurestEvil wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:58 am
BeaBumby wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:19 pm anyway so if Kale and Caulifla are lesbians does that mean Kefla loves herself
tbf all the saiyan fusions "love" themselves to an extent :lol:
They love themselves a little too much i would say lol.
Why do you feel this way?
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Majin Buu » Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:00 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:24 am I can sort of understand people interpretating Caulifa as not a woman loving woman. But I don't know how anyone could read Kale as anything other than a lesbian in love with her one and only.
Hell, I haven't even watched the Tournament of Power yet, only experienced it through video games; and even then I can tell Kale has romantic feelings for Caulifla.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:14 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:24 am
Majin Man 101 wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:11 am

I thought it was fairly obvious what was going on with the two Saiyan lesbian girls in the tournament of power arc but I have had people tell me I’m misunderstanding their relationship. I guess the writing is so bad it wouldn’t be hard to misunderstand it. However, since it wasn’t made “blatantly” made clear, I think it made everyone take a double take on it because it is very odd indeed whatever is going on there,or not?

Honestly I think it would blow up the internet either way.
I can sort of understand people interpretating Caulifa as not a woman loving woman. But I don't know how anyone could read Kale as anything other than a lesbian in love with her one and only.
She's WLW. He interactions with Kale are very relationship-driven and she's also completely oblivious. Nothing more Sapphic than two girls who don't know if they're actually dating or not.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Ashur » Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:23 am

JulieYBM wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:55 am
Ashur wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:52 am
PurestEvil wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:58 am

tbf all the saiyan fusions "love" themselves to an extent :lol:
They love themselves a little too much i would say lol.
Why do you feel this way?
Because the fusions are all full of themselves.
Image

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:26 am

Ashur wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:23 am
JulieYBM wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:55 am
Ashur wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:52 am
They love themselves a little too much i would say lol.
Why do you feel this way?
Because the fusions are all full of themselves.
Image
Kefla can actually back it up, though.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by goku the krump dancer » Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:47 am

Does Jiren NEED to be gay though? Dragon Ball has amassed tons of gay fans over the years and counting despite what some might consider negative stereotypes.

and again plenty of people thought Freeza, Zarbon and the Ginyu squad were all gay or gay adjacent ( Hell they all very well could be) but that didnt stop the series from exploding 20+ years ago.

Why would that change for Jiren?
It's not too late. One day, it will be.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:08 am

goku the krump dancer wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:47 am Does Jiren NEED to be gay though?
Yes.
goku the krump dancer wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:47 amDragon Ball has amassed tons of gay fans over the years and counting despite what some might consider negative stereotypes.
Welcome to being queer, we roll with a ton of fucking punches.
goku the krump dancer wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:47 amand again plenty of people thought Freeza, Zarbon and the Ginyu squad were all gay or gay adjacent ( Hell they all very well could be) but that didnt stop the series from exploding 20+ years ago.
That's because it's only subtext and can therefore be 'ignored' or 'tolerated' by otherwise intolerant people.

Anyway, they're all bisexual anyway.
goku the krump dancer wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:47 amWhy would that change for Jiren?
Because after we make Jiren's queerness text we're going to make everyone's queerness text. Jiren's just the first first in the Queer Agenda.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:43 am

goku the krump dancer wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:47 am Does Jiren NEED to be gay though?
Of course not. Unless Dragon Ball wants to take the brave stand that gay people can be boring too.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:47 am

Oh, to be a bisexual fujoshi discussing Jiren with a room full of straight men. :(

Jiren's such a petulant manchild but also so inoffensively and ultimately harmless, it's hot! Jiren's personality is hot! So is his body! He should kiss Toppo, his dear friend who has believed in him all this time!!
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by goku the krump dancer » Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:08 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:43 am
goku the krump dancer wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:47 am Does Jiren NEED to be gay though?
Of course not. Unless Dragon Ball wants to take the brave stand that gay people can be boring too.
But would that be good or bad representation?
It's not too late. One day, it will be.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by PurestEvil » Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:23 am

goku the krump dancer wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:08 am
MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:43 am
goku the krump dancer wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:47 am Does Jiren NEED to be gay though?
Of course not. Unless Dragon Ball wants to take the brave stand that gay people can be boring too.
But would that be good or bad representation?
I mean, there isn't anything hateful about Jiren hypothetically being gay. If anything, it would go against the stereotype that gay men are super flamboyant and stuff.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:32 am

Good and bad representation are many things. There's always a tendency to make a queer character a little too squeaky clean, which I think does a disservice to queer characters in general, but this is ultimately a trauma response. Most of y'all aren't queer and didn't have to grow up as such consuming popularized images of characters like you that were offensive on top of living in hostile homes. I personally first and foremost trust queer creators with telling the stories of queer characters but I don't think the staff of the Dragon Ball Super cartoon were too far off from getting Kale and Caulifla done better, either. Like, I think it would have been the most natural thing in world for Caulifla and Kale to kiss just before the Potara merger or in Episode #131. Similarly, I don't think it would have been out of this world to depict tension between Jiren's disgust and attraction to Gokuu in a romantic manner. Hell, let the guy give Toppo a thank you kiss in Episode #131!

Queer love doesn't need to be justified. It can just be because.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:37 am

goku the krump dancer wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:08 am
MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:43 am
goku the krump dancer wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:47 am Does Jiren NEED to be gay though?
Of course not. Unless Dragon Ball wants to take the brave stand that gay people can be boring too.
But would that be good or bad representation?
Idk is Jiren bad representation for dudes who work out a lot at the expense of having a personality 🤷‍♂️

Would it matter if Jiren was gay or straight or bi or ace when he has all the depth of a puddle on a sunny day?

I say let him continue to exist as a blank slate so fans can project whatever they want on him.

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