How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
DBZAOTA482
Banned
Posts: 6995
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:04 pm
Contact:

Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:16 am

Lord Beerus wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:45 am I would certainly welcome the inclusion of a Dragon Ball character that is from the LBGTQ+ community. But I would not trust Toriyama, Toyotaro or Toei to wrote a character with an LBGTQ+ background AT ALL. They all lack the capacity to write a character from an LBGTQ+ background with the kind of nuance and sympathy required to not feel like a caricature or to serve as the punchline for a cheap, gross and unfunny gag or to rely so much on subtext than it just comes across as queer baiting.
I don't think that'll be a problem with modern Dragon Ball. The original series simply came from a different time when it was okay for the media to make fun of gay people.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

User avatar
Xeno Goku Black
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:29 am

Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:56 am

PurestEvil wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:19 amYeah, but throughout the whole discussion you made some arguments about why it SHOULD NOT be done, not just why it doesn’t need to happen.
It shouldn't be done because it doesn't matter. If there's no purpose for something to be done you generally do not do it.
Representation is important not because it’s trendy, it’s because it gives a positive impression of minorities (if done right), which can counter bigotry and promote acceptance.
So again nothing at all to do with the show whatsoever. Just a reason to inject politics into a cartoon that's already well loved by countless groups and whose main cast largely represents East Asians.

Leave such things to other shows. It is unnecessary for Dragon Ball where such things are irrelevant.
Like, you think you’re being apolitical by saying you don’t want “politics” in your Dragon ball, but in reality you’re just saying that gay representation is unfit for Dragon Ball, which is pretty political.
There's nothing political about it. You're talking about it being included for no other reason at all but to represent a minority group.

Not for anything to do with the story or the character itself. A series where almost all new major characters aren't stated to have any preference one way or the other, being that the show is about characters punching each other in the face, now suddenly needs a character to randomly be gay?

No. The show is fine and well liked as is, has been for over 35 years. Leave it. People don't care if Jiren is gay. They don't care if Hit is straight. They don't care if Granolah is bisexual.
Dragon Ball is a product made for the Japanese market.
In which case Japan are far less tolerant for pandering unlike the west. So they themselves would have no real need to include it anyway.
Rhetorical/Leading questions need not be answered directly.
So you recognise that representation does not matter in Dragon Ball a series whose current cast make up characters that look like this...

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 16503
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:33 am

People do care. It why people talk about how cool it would be to have queer characters.
She/Her💕 💜 💙
progesterone princess, estradiol empress
Lucifer's bimbo daughter

User avatar
LoganForkHands73
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1358
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:54 pm

Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:36 pm

Oddly specific to focus on Jiren of all characters. While I think you could expect a usual amount of uproar from the anti-woke crowds, I have a feeling relatively few people would notice or care at this point.

I have come to believe that representation is very important. When it comes to something like Dragon Ball though, the question really is, can it really do any of it justice? I think it's fair to point out that this series has never been overly fixated on realistic depictions of romance or sexuality. There are quite a few "obnoxiously straight" characters like Roshi and Oolong whose perversion is played for laughs, but that emphasises Dragon Ball's problematic history in depicting these things.

At any rate, I personally believe that there are far better characters to explore sexuality with than Jiren. Like many other martial artists in the series, he is not the kind of character to focus on anything besides training and improving his strength. Revealing his sexuality, if he even has one, would probably not lead anywhere at all. If fans want to construe his relationships with Goku and Toppo as being more than rivalry or close friendship respectively, they can by all means do that. He's enough of a blank slate where it's possible. A good comparison would be Tenshinhan, who may well have sexual inclinations either way (though I've always found the idea of him being "more than friends" with Chaozu to be icky considering that the little Jiangshi dude never visibly ages), but chooses to be celibate due to his dedication to Budo.

For what it's worth, I would say Dragon Ball already has a fair amount of representation and, for the most part, it has been handled subtly enough that nobody complains or notices. I think it boils down to the fact that Dragon Ball, for the most part, does not mindfully dwell topics like sexuality and politics. Everything ultimately ties back to action or the occasional joke. Just off the top of my head, we have:
  • Whis. While it's not explicitly stated (him blushing at Beerus's exposed dong gives us about as much confirmation as we can ever expect), I'd say he's one of the best examples in the entire franchise and a personal favourite. He's a super cool, strong, intelligent and well-developed character who also happens to be extremely camp and effete in demeanour.
  • Piccolo. Piccolo is confirmed to be asexual. Of course, he's biologically determined to be, but it's important in how he interacts with the rest of the cast (i.e. his complete misunderstanding of romantic love).
  • Freeza. Freeza is also extremely queer-coded and happens to be the most iconic villain in the series. He's androgynous enough that some still get confused about his gender to this day. Being villainous does not disqualify him, IMO, since he comes from a long legacy of empoweringly cool queer antagonists in Asian and global literature.
  • Caulifla and Kale. They're lesbian Super Saiyans. It's about the most explicit queer representation we've had in the series and both characters are no less popular for it.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6201
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:52 pm

LoganForkHands73 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:36 pm
  • Whis. While it's not explicitly stated (him blushing at Beerus's exposed dong gives us about as much confirmation as we can ever expect), I'd say he's one of the best examples in the entire franchise and a personal favourite. He's a super cool, strong, intelligent and well-developed character who also happens to be extremely camp and effete in demeanour.
Yes, Whis is a great example. He's all but outright stated to be gay and is the most powerful fighter in universe 7.
  • Piccolo. Piccolo is confirmed to be asexual. Of course, he's biologically determined to be, but it's important in how he interacts with the rest of the cast (i.e. his complete misunderstanding of romantic love).
I always feel the need to point out that despite being in a traditional heterosexual marriage (that he only agreed to because he made a promise he didn't understand as a kid) Goku is very much asexual and aromantic. He clearly has no interest in either. I guess you could argue he's asexual heteroromantic in the anime since Toei does tend to add stuff suggesting his love for Chi Chi is genuine (his dream in the Princess Snake episode, the reunion when he recovers from his heart virus, agreeing with Vegeta that he likes Chi Chi being strong willed). But still.

  • Freeza. Freeza is also extremely queer-coded and happens to be the most iconic villain in the series. He's androgynous enough that some still get confused about his gender to this day. Being villainous does not disqualify him, IMO, since he comes from a long legacy of empoweringly cool queer antagonists in Asian and global literature.
Queer coded villains have been a thing forever and I don't think its necessarily a bad thing. Though the Funi Z dub plays it right into problematic territory.
  • Caulifla and Kale. They're lesbian Super Saiyans. It's about the most explicit queer representation we've had in the series and both characters are no less popular for it.
I'd argue they're pretty unpopular. At least they were for a while. Though that has way more to do with them being female warriors in the anti sjw reactionary era than anything.


Still they're awesome.

User avatar
LoganForkHands73
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1358
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:54 pm

Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:25 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:52 pm
LoganForkHands73 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:36 pm
  • Whis. While it's not explicitly stated (him blushing at Beerus's exposed dong gives us about as much confirmation as we can ever expect), I'd say he's one of the best examples in the entire franchise and a personal favourite. He's a super cool, strong, intelligent and well-developed character who also happens to be extremely camp and effete in demeanour.
Yes, Whis is a great example. He's all but outright stated to be gay and is the most powerful fighter in universe 7.
  • Piccolo. Piccolo is confirmed to be asexual. Of course, he's biologically determined to be, but it's important in how he interacts with the rest of the cast (i.e. his complete misunderstanding of romantic love).
I always feel the need to point out that despite being in a traditional heterosexual marriage (that he only agreed to because he made a promise he didn't understand as a kid) Goku is very much asexual and aromantic. He clearly has no interest in either. I guess you could argue he's asexual heteroromantic in the anime since Toei does tend to add stuff suggesting his love for Chi Chi is genuine (his dream in the Princess Snake episode, the reunion when he recovers from his heart virus, agreeing with Vegeta that he likes Chi Chi being strong willed). But still.

  • Freeza. Freeza is also extremely queer-coded and happens to be the most iconic villain in the series. He's androgynous enough that some still get confused about his gender to this day. Being villainous does not disqualify him, IMO, since he comes from a long legacy of empoweringly cool queer antagonists in Asian and global literature.
Queer coded villains have been a thing forever and I don't think its necessarily a bad thing. Though the Funi Z dub plays it right into problematic territory.
  • Caulifla and Kale. They're lesbian Super Saiyans. It's about the most explicit queer representation we've had in the series and both characters are no less popular for it.
I'd argue they're pretty unpopular. At least they were for a while. Though that has way more to do with them being female warriors in the anti sjw reactionary era than anything.


Still they're awesome.
Cheers, I agree with pretty much all of that. :)

Regarding Goku, I also believe it depends on the medium to a degree. I have a feeling that the Z anime writers wanted to show him as somebody with very traditional/old-fashioned expressions of romance, i.e. stoically keeping most of his feelings about it to himself. Funnily enough, the scene of Goku and Vegeta talking about their taste in wives does go down almost identically in both the Super anime and manga (complete with Piccolo freaking out in the background), but even then, Goku talks about Chichi like one of the bros, there's not an ounce of romance in how he says it, lmao.

Like in most genre fiction, the logic and setting of Dragon Ball all orbits around the protagonist, in this case Goku, a guy who mostly cares about fighting and not at all about romance. I think that predictable simplicity is part of what makes Dragon Ball such a global hit.

User avatar
MCDaveG
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5533
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:54 pm
Location: Prague, Czechia
Contact:

Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by MCDaveG » Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:10 pm

They would have to make him gay alien first.
And Dragon ball would have to start exploring deeper character traits besides bashing skulls.

It would change nothing I guess. Jiren was boring as hell and was caring for nobody, just sheer power up to the point of stupidity.
Maybe he is gay alien if he starts caring for anybody, we don’t know :)
FighterZ: Funky_Strudel
PS4: Dynamixx88

User avatar
Majin Man 101
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:45 pm

Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Majin Man 101 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:33 am

I didn’t want to pile onto the anti-woke side, but what I will say is that if Dragon Ball ever started catering to the cravings of Western audiences cultural and political needs, it would absolutely hurt the series overall. I think that is made obvious here by how many people want the series to be something that it is not, via them not liking the views that are currently expressed in the series. The thing about Dragon Ball at its very essence is that it was written by a straight man, and he obviously wanted to write something that he enjoys writing, and his sense of humour and views are put out on parade with his work. Likewise with the writers at Toei.

I am not going to sit here and pretend to have an understanding of Japanese culture but what I will say is that if they aren’t ready for that kind of content then it would feel forced. I don’t think that there has ever been an honest to God piece of fiction where an author is thinking in his head to cater to every single different crowd of people possible that has been quality. While you obviously want your series to reach as many people as possible, I think it is obvious that the old saying still stands that if you try to please everybody, you will end up pleasing nobody.

That all being said there has been some tremendous characters in Yu Yu Hakusho/Hunter x Hunter and many different fantastic anime that definitely don’t fit into the straight category, and if Dragon Balls writing would improve then I don’t see why it wouldn’t work there.

Jiren being gay though? I don’t know why that would be interesting. There would have to be a story element or attachment to another character that would have to make that work. But based off of everything we have seen from Jiren so far, I think this would be a pretty bland choice.

Now on how the fandom would react… I think if there was a change where a member of the Original cast were made gay there would be a galactic meltdown, but new characters I don’t think anybody would really care all that much.

User avatar
Soppa Saia People
I Live Here
Posts: 3062
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:26 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Soppa Saia People » Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:33 am

japanese manga fans aren't ready for gender non conforming or non hetro normative characters ? that must be why every 70s shoujo manga failed!

i kid, obviously just because you like utena doesn't mean you automatically aren't homophobic, but japanese manga series have had those type of characters and themes in fairly popular series for a long time now.
I have borderline personality disorder, if my posts ever come off as aggressive or word vomit-y to you, please let me know.

🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸

Jord
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:13 am

Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Jord » Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:39 am

Money talks. Including more LGBT content would not make them more money. The small amount of people that will spend money on DB that don't spend money now won't outweigh the amount of backlash/people that would spend less or leave the brand.

Money makes the world go round. Dragon Ball is being made purely to make money. Dragon Ball has a financially succesful formula where Toei doesnt want to temper too much with. Even though I'm not the biggest Super fan, the current formula works for them.

User avatar
Aim
Banned
Posts: 761
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:06 am
Contact:

Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Aim » Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:02 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:56 am
Aim wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:18 am because in Dragon Ball sexuality isn’t really even discussed let alone mentioned.
Except when it is. Which is all the time.
What how

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6201
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:39 am

Aim wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:02 am
MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:56 am
Aim wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:18 am because in Dragon Ball sexuality isn’t really even discussed let alone mentioned.
Except when it is. Which is all the time.
What how
Bulma goes crazy over men and says she can't contol herself when she sees a hot guy

Oolong says he hates men (and penis) and only likes girls

Roshi constantly hits on and sexually harrasses women. He also request Goku and Kuririn find him a pichi pichi girl

Lanfang tries to distract Nam with her body

Kuririn tempts Roshi to train him with skin mags. He also laments about wanting to get married. He also cant deactivate 18 because she kissed him

Chi Chi decides since Goku kicked her in the vagina she has no choice but to be his wife


Bulma and Kuririn determine General Blue is gay because he was grossed out by her throwing herself at him.


Goku accidentally finds Murasaki's porn collection

Goku convinces Old Kaioshin to power up Gohan by promising him he can feel up Bulma.



I don't get where you and another user think sexuality just isn't a thing in Dragon Ball. It very much is.

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 16503
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:11 am

Majin Man 101 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:33 am I didn’t want to pile onto the anti-woke side, but what I will say is that if Dragon Ball ever started catering to the cravings of Western audiences cultural and political needs, it would absolutely hurt the series overall. I think that is made obvious here by how many people want the series to be something that it is not, via them not liking the views that are currently expressed in the series. The thing about Dragon Ball at its very essence is that it was written by a straight man, and he obviously wanted to write something that he enjoys writing, and his sense of humour and views are put out on parade with his work. Likewise with the writers at Toei.

I am not going to sit here and pretend to have an understanding of Japanese culture but what I will say is that if they aren’t ready for that kind of content then it would feel forced. I don’t think that there has ever been an honest to God piece of fiction where an author is thinking in his head to cater to every single different crowd of people possible that has been quality. While you obviously want your series to reach as many people as possible, I think it is obvious that the old saying still stands that if you try to please everybody, you will end up pleasing nobody.

That all being said there has been some tremendous characters in Yu Yu Hakusho/Hunter x Hunter and many different fantastic anime that definitely don’t fit into the straight category, and if Dragon Balls writing would improve then I don’t see why it wouldn’t work there.

Jiren being gay though? I don’t know why that would be interesting. There would have to be a story element or attachment to another character that would have to make that work. But based off of everything we have seen from Jiren so far, I think this would be a pretty bland choice.

Now on how the fandom would react… I think if there was a change where a member of the Original cast were made gay there would be a galactic meltdown, but new characters I don’t think anybody would really care all that much.
Putting aside the screaming queerness (subtext and text) in manga and anime in general, has it not at all occurred to you that maybe Japanese queer people do not like seeing themselves poorly treated in media?

Or is saying "fuck this shit, do better" something only the western queers are capable of?
She/Her💕 💜 💙
progesterone princess, estradiol empress
Lucifer's bimbo daughter

User avatar
PurestEvil
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1948
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:34 pm
Location: Constantinopolee!

Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by PurestEvil » Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:04 am

Xeno Goku Black wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:56 am
Representation is important not because it’s trendy, it’s because it gives a positive impression of minorities (if done right), which can counter bigotry and promote acceptance.
So again nothing at all to do with the show whatsoever. Just a reason to inject politics into a cartoon that's already well loved by countless groups and whose main cast largely represents East Asians.
You seem to have completely ignored the most important section of my comment that gave examples of how Dragon Ball was already influenced by politics.
Besides, I never said the writers were obligated to write gay characters; it’s their story and their characters. What I AM saying is that if they do write gay character and do it well, it would be good because good representation leaves a positive impact overall.
Rhetorical/Leading questions need not be answered directly.
So you recognise that representation does not matter in Dragon Ball a series whose current cast make up characters that look like this...
Your argument that DB can’t produce gay characters because they will not look like humans implies that people cannot relate to non-human characters, which is laughably wrong. Sexuality is not about appearance, it’s about feelings. That’s why I dodged your question earlier, it was based on a faulty premise.

I can’t be bothered to go on with this “discussion” with you, since you simply can’t deal with the level of nuance in this topic and will continue to clutch your pearls and repeat your trite arguments. In all seriousness, check you prejudices.
This post was brought to you by 魔族

Rest in Peace, Toriyama-san

User avatar
Majin Man 101
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:45 pm

Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Majin Man 101 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:12 am

JulieYBM wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:11 am
Majin Man 101 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:33 am I didn’t want to pile onto the anti-woke side, but what I will say is that if Dragon Ball ever started catering to the cravings of Western audiences cultural and political needs, it would absolutely hurt the series overall. I think that is made obvious here by how many people want the series to be something that it is not, via them not liking the views that are currently expressed in the series. The thing about Dragon Ball at its very essence is that it was written by a straight man, and he obviously wanted to write something that he enjoys writing, and his sense of humour and views are put out on parade with his work. Likewise with the writers at Toei.

I am not going to sit here and pretend to have an understanding of Japanese culture but what I will say is that if they aren’t ready for that kind of content then it would feel forced. I don’t think that there has ever been an honest to God piece of fiction where an author is thinking in his head to cater to every single different crowd of people possible that has been quality. While you obviously want your series to reach as many people as possible, I think it is obvious that the old saying still stands that if you try to please everybody, you will end up pleasing nobody.

That all being said there has been some tremendous characters in Yu Yu Hakusho/Hunter x Hunter and many different fantastic anime that definitely don’t fit into the straight category, and if Dragon Balls writing would improve then I don’t see why it wouldn’t work there.

Jiren being gay though? I don’t know why that would be interesting. There would have to be a story element or attachment to another character that would have to make that work. But based off of everything we have seen from Jiren so far, I think this would be a pretty bland choice.

Now on how the fandom would react… I think if there was a change where a member of the Original cast were made gay there would be a galactic meltdown, but new characters I don’t think anybody would really care all that much.
Putting aside the screaming queerness (subtext and text) in manga and anime in general, has it not at all occurred to you that maybe Japanese queer people do not like seeing themselves poorly treated in media?

Or is saying "fuck this shit, do better" something only the western queers are capable of?
I honestly cannot say for sure. Obviously there is nothing that makes westerners any more capable than anybody else in the world on any topic. But from what I have seen the desire and passion for this kind of thing is strongest in the west,(specifically North America)

Maybe I am wrong about that and I wouldn’t have a problem admitting that I am wrong, I don’t really follow the news on this sort of thing I can only talk about my observations.

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 16503
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:01 pm

Majin Man 101 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:12 am I honestly cannot say for sure. Obviously there is nothing that makes westerners any more capable than anybody else in the world on any topic. But from what I have seen the desire and passion for this kind of thing is strongest in the west,(specifically North America)

Maybe I am wrong about that and I wouldn’t have a problem admitting that I am wrong, I don’t really follow the news on this sort of thing I can only talk about my observations.
I don't understand your logic here to assume that about not only a marginalized people that you're [seemingly] unfamiliar with and not a part of—queer people in general—but also about queer people in Japan. Like, yeah, we're all here speaking on message boards in the English language because we all happen to speak English and live in nations that primarily speak English. That's kind of irrelevant to the fact maybe dealing with random bigotry from your favorite works of art kind of sucks no matter where you live? Especially considering just how awful the situation is for queer rights in Japan.
She/Her💕 💜 💙
progesterone princess, estradiol empress
Lucifer's bimbo daughter

User avatar
Majin Man 101
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:45 pm

Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Majin Man 101 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:10 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:01 pm
Majin Man 101 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:12 am I honestly cannot say for sure. Obviously there is nothing that makes westerners any more capable than anybody else in the world on any topic. But from what I have seen the desire and passion for this kind of thing is strongest in the west,(specifically North America)

Maybe I am wrong about that and I wouldn’t have a problem admitting that I am wrong, I don’t really follow the news on this sort of thing I can only talk about my observations.
I don't understand your logic here to assume that about not only a marginalized people that you're [seemingly] unfamiliar with and not a part of—queer people in general—but also about queer people in Japan. Like, yeah, we're all here speaking on message boards in the English language because we all happen to speak English and live in nations that primarily speak English. That's kind of irrelevant to the fact maybe dealing with random bigotry from your favorite works of art kind of sucks no matter where you live? Especially considering just how awful the situation is for queer rights in Japan.
I mean I’m not disagreeing with you i’m just trying to come at this from a perspective of that this is an issue that probably won’t be addressed anytime soon due to the various reasons listed previously.

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 16503
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:26 pm

Majin Man 101 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:10 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:01 pm
Majin Man 101 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:12 am I honestly cannot say for sure. Obviously there is nothing that makes westerners any more capable than anybody else in the world on any topic. But from what I have seen the desire and passion for this kind of thing is strongest in the west,(specifically North America)

Maybe I am wrong about that and I wouldn’t have a problem admitting that I am wrong, I don’t really follow the news on this sort of thing I can only talk about my observations.
I don't understand your logic here to assume that about not only a marginalized people that you're [seemingly] unfamiliar with and not a part of—queer people in general—but also about queer people in Japan. Like, yeah, we're all here speaking on message boards in the English language because we all happen to speak English and live in nations that primarily speak English. That's kind of irrelevant to the fact maybe dealing with random bigotry from your favorite works of art kind of sucks no matter where you live? Especially considering just how awful the situation is for queer rights in Japan.
I mean I’m not disagreeing with you i’m just trying to come at this from a perspective of that this is an issue that probably won’t be addressed anytime soon due to the various reasons listed previously.
Okay, but then what is your point in saying "this is an issue that probably won't be addressed anytime soon"? Are you saying people shouldn't discuss or have positions in-favor of positive queer representation in media? I'm confused.
She/Her💕 💜 💙
progesterone princess, estradiol empress
Lucifer's bimbo daughter

User avatar
Majin Man 101
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:45 pm

Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Majin Man 101 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:43 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:26 pm
Majin Man 101 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:10 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:01 pm

I don't understand your logic here to assume that about not only a marginalized people that you're [seemingly] unfamiliar with and not a part of—queer people in general—but also about queer people in Japan. Like, yeah, we're all here speaking on message boards in the English language because we all happen to speak English and live in nations that primarily speak English. That's kind of irrelevant to the fact maybe dealing with random bigotry from your favorite works of art kind of sucks no matter where you live? Especially considering just how awful the situation is for queer rights in Japan.
I mean I’m not disagreeing with you i’m just trying to come at this from a perspective of that this is an issue that probably won’t be addressed anytime soon due to the various reasons listed previously.
Okay, but then what is your point in saying "this is an issue that probably won't be addressed anytime soon"? Are you saying people shouldn't discuss or have positions in-favor of positive queer representation in media? I'm confused.
No that’s not what I’m saying at all. What I am saying is that we should not expect any overwhelming positive representation in Dragon Ball anytime soon.

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 16503
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:59 pm

Majin Man 101 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:43 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:26 pm
Majin Man 101 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:10 pm

I mean I’m not disagreeing with you i’m just trying to come at this from a perspective of that this is an issue that probably won’t be addressed anytime soon due to the various reasons listed previously.
Okay, but then what is your point in saying "this is an issue that probably won't be addressed anytime soon"? Are you saying people shouldn't discuss or have positions in-favor of positive queer representation in media? I'm confused.
No that’s not what I’m saying at all. What I am saying is that we should not expect any overwhelming positive representation in Dragon Ball anytime soon.
Nobody has been under any idea that positive representation would occur soon but that doesn't mean that we should take any other stance or attitude that contributes to that.
She/Her💕 💜 💙
progesterone princess, estradiol empress
Lucifer's bimbo daughter

Post Reply