Why does Vegeta still insist on using Goku's original Saiyan name?

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Why does Vegeta still insist on using Goku's original Saiyan name?

Post by Inkei9001 » Sat Aug 13, 2022 7:19 pm

He knows Goku wants to go by his chosen name of Goku not kakarot. But he insists on dead naming Goku. Like I get it back in the 80s and 90s that was cool to do. But it isn't then anymore and I personally find it hard to read a manga or watch an anime from the modern times that gleefully dear names anyone. Is there any chance they'll ever change this? I don't mean going back and changing lines in older manga and stuff I mean stopping it for new chapters and admitting it was wrong .

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Re: why does Vegeta still dead name Goku?

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Sat Aug 13, 2022 7:44 pm

He calls him Kakarot because he wants to call him Kakarot.

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Re: why does Vegeta still dead name Goku?

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Aug 13, 2022 7:46 pm

Has there ever even been a point in Toriyama’s Dragon Ball where Goku objected to being called by his Saiyan name? I can’t recall any instances off the top of my head. He just doesn’t seem to care. That’s why I find it so weird when people cite him asking Broly to call him Kakarott as an example of him learning to accept his Saiyan heritage. Goku has never had any problem accepting the fact that he’s a Saiyan. He’s never shown any denial or angst about it. On the contrary, he often uses his Saiyan heritage to justify his reckless love of fighting.

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Re: why does Vegeta still dead name Goku?

Post by Super Sonic » Sat Aug 13, 2022 8:14 pm

I think you're taking it too seriously and the Nation likely doesn't have many branches in Japan. But yeah, I'd say it's how modern Superman doesn't mind folks calling him "Kal-El" instead of Clark Kent. Grant not a lot of folks know about the latter purposely, but some concept.

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Re: why does Vegeta still dead name Goku?

Post by jjgp1112 » Sat Aug 13, 2022 8:20 pm

Goku clearly has no problem with it and even goes as far as encouraging Broly to address him by it.
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Re: why does Vegeta still dead name Goku?

Post by Grimlock » Sat Aug 13, 2022 8:50 pm

Just because there are fewer Saiyans to call him that, and more humans that call him "Goku", doesn't mean it's a "dead name".

But at any rate, complaining about this is pointless. After Raditz, we have Goku never asking anyone to not call him that. We have Goku accepting his Saiyan heritage in Freeza saga. We have Goku calling/identifying himself as "Kakarot" in Movie 1. And we have Goku finally learning his origins in Granolah saga (we also have real people and a video game calling him that). Kakarot is not a "dead name", not by a long shot.

But, if it's any consolation, we do have instances in which Vegeta calls him "Goku".
WittyUsername wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 7:46 pmHas there ever even been a point in Toriyama’s Dragon Ball where Goku objected to being called by his Saiyan name?
Yes, when he meets Raditz.
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Re: why does Vegeta still dead name Goku?

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:01 pm

Grimlock wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 8:50 pm Just because there are fewer Saiyans to call him that, and more humans that call him "Goku", doesn't mean it's a "dead name".

But at any rate, complaining about this is pointless. After Raditz, we have Goku never asking anyone to not call him that. We have Goku accepting his Saiyan heritage in Freeza saga. We have Goku calling/identifying himself as "Kakarot" in Movie 1. And we have Goku finally learning his origins in Granolah saga (we also have real people and a video game calling him that). Kakarot is not a "dead name", not by a long shot.

But, if it's any consolation, we do have instances in which Vegeta calls him "Goku".
WittyUsername wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 7:46 pmHas there ever even been a point in Toriyama’s Dragon Ball where Goku objected to being called by his Saiyan name?
Yes, when he meets Raditz.
Goku accepted his Saiyan heritage before the Freeza saga. He had no problem informing Kaio that he’s a Saiyan, and he used his Saiyan heritage to justify his desire to fight Vegeta again. Sure, he showed some initial shock to the revelation that he’s an alien, but he seemed to come to terms with it pretty quickly. He never went through any kind of arc where he had to learn to embrace who he is. Toriyama is not that kind of writer, and Goku is not that kind of character.

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Re: why does Vegeta still dead name Goku?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:30 pm

Goku resenting his heritage is mostly filler. He came in terms with it pretty quickly after his initial disgust so he doesn't mind Vegeta calling him by his birth name.
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Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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Re: why does Vegeta still dead name Goku?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:57 pm

It's ...not....a...dead name.

What.

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Re: why does Vegeta still dead name Goku?

Post by BeaBumby » Sat Aug 13, 2022 11:47 pm

dw it's not really a trans deadname thing, some trans people are actually fine with their birth name, and goku is fine with kakarot.
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Re: why does Vegeta still dead name Goku?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:44 am

The concept of "deadnaming", which has only been popularised in the last decade is unique to the transgender community. As such we can be quite sure Toriyama wasn't even thinking about it when he was writing the manga.

Nonetheless I've always got the impression Vegeta used the name because his perception of Goku was diametrically opposed to how his friends saw him. Heritage and pride in the saiyan race was important to him when defining who someone is, if they came from his home planet. Goku's friends however had no connection to the saiyans apart from Goku and after Raditz just saw them as heartless villains that they wanted Goku to have no association with.

For Goku's friends his heritage didn't matter, he lived all his life on Earth and had long adapted to both the planet and its people. To Vegeta, because he had known of Goku longer he didn't see him as an Earthling, to him he was a low class warrior that never should have been the first in their time to become a Super Saiyan, and he likely associated him with his birth name out of spite because "Kakarott" was known to be low class. Any association with the Earth name (Goku) would not carry the same connotations because to Vegeta who Goku was born as mattered more than who he became, but for his friends it was the reverse, so he was defined and named appropriately as Goku.
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Re: why does Vegeta still dead name Goku?

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:52 am

Transitioning myself has taught me that everything is fake. The body, gender, sexuality and sense of self is malleable and these things ultimately belong to the individual to define alone. This is why cisheteronormative society hates and fears us. Our existence draws attention to just how fake the rules of society are and how they were made to serve the patriarchy and white supremacy.

Gokuu appears to be a trans person with a malleable sense of identity. Some people use the dual name without dysphoria from what I've managed to gleam from trans communities.

Toriyama doesn't write Gokuu as particularly 'man' esque as a way to avoid making Gokuu seem like a traditional hero. As a result it makes Gokuu come across as very queer! Gokuu's gender might even be considered outside the binary. There is, after all, no one right way to be trans!

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Re: why does Vegeta still dead name Goku?

Post by ChronoTwigger » Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:01 pm

"Sorry Goku, I've called you the whole time Kakarot, but I think this is 'dead naming', something that doesn't even exist as a definition outside of USA, and make some people exit their comfort zone. I don't want for someone to exit their comfort zone, so from now onward I'll call you Goku and I'll do public excuses so no one feel out of his comfort zone. Except those that by reading such uncanny b*****t will be thrown out of comfort, but who care?"

You said something like that.
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Re: why does Vegeta still dead name Goku?

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:18 pm

デッドネーミング actually has a Japanese Wikipedia article. I'm not sure if the trans community in Japan uses デッドネーミング or maybe a Japanese equivalent, though I have seen the term used on Twitter.

Anyway, the point is, 'deadnaming' is not a concept exclusive to the United States or to even other English-speaking nations (Canada, the UK, et cetera).
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Re: why does Vegeta still dead name Goku?

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:55 pm

It isn't deadnaming. Goku doesn't care either way and lets both Vegeta and Broly call him Kakarrot without complaint (the latter, he explicitly encourages). Yeah, he had a small identity crisis when he first found out his Saiyan heritage, who wouldn't, but he has long since come to terms with it.

Deadnaming obviously has connotations with transexuality and being referred to by the name that you were given and referred to as from birth that you abandoned during transitioning, which has never applied to Goku at all since he's A) not trans, and B) Goku was the only name he ever knew until Raditz came along.

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Re: why does Vegeta still dead name Goku?

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:10 pm

LoganForkHands73 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:55 pm It isn't deadnaming. Goku doesn't care either way and lets both Vegeta and Broly call him Kakarrot without complaint (the latter, he explicitly encourages). Yeah, he had a small identity crisis when he first found out his Saiyan heritage, who wouldn't, but he has long since come to terms with it.

Deadnaming obviously has connotations with transexuality and being referred to by the name that you were given and referred to as from birth that you abandoned during transitioning, which has never applied to Goku at all since he's A) not trans, and B) Goku was the only name he ever knew until Raditz came along.
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Re: why does Vegeta still dead name Goku?

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:47 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:10 pm Hey hon I'm just letting you know that we don't really use that term anymore. Transsexual is an outdated term and we mostly use 'transgender' or simply 'trans' to account for any older trans people who still identify with that term. The term 'transsexual' should really only be used for those who specifically identify as such. Otherwise it's best to just use 'trans'. 'Transsexual' often has a connotation of transmedicalism (the belief that you need to experience gender dysphoria, take HRT and have surgeries to be trans), which the greater trans community doesn't subscribe to.
Okay cheers, I'll take that into consideration in the future. I really just used the term because it felt more grammatically right for that sentence, but I meant to say deadnaming definitely applies to the wider trans umbrella, for sure.

I would rather you didn't patronise me about it, though (only my mother gets to call me "hon" :wink: ). While I am by all means an outsider to the trans community, I've studied and interacted enough to know a thing or two.

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Re: why does Vegeta still dead name Goku?

Post by Grimlock » Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:17 pm

WittyUsername wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:01 pmGoku accepted his Saiyan heritage before the Freeza saga. He had no problem informing Kaio that he’s a Saiyan
Right, people keep saying he accepted his Saiyan heritage in Freeza saga, I completely forgot he said that to Kaio of North.
WittyUsername wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:01 pmHe never went through any kind of arc where he had to learn to embrace who he is. Toriyama is not that kind of writer, and Goku is not that kind of character.
Something that happened quite recently. Well, not actually "embracing" it but getting the full context.


Hey, I actually never realized that there is this major contrast between Goku and alternate dimension Goku. The latter was still adamant he's Goku at least up until Movie 3. He takes a while longer to accept it. Very interesting contrast indeed.
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Re: why does Vegeta still dead name Goku?

Post by The Time Traveller » Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:22 pm

Goku isn't trans and didn't know about his birth name, he's always gone by Son Goku personally, never chose his name even then.

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Re: why does Vegeta still dead name Goku?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:27 pm

Goku probably does not care. If he did, he would told Vegeta to stop it a while ago.
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