To the People who Watched Dragon Ball on Toonami...

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To the People who Watched Dragon Ball on Toonami...

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Tue Sep 27, 2022 11:35 am

...would you have enjoyed Dragon Ball, Z and GT if they were all aired on the correct order and were all on the same level as Dragon Ball Kai 1.0 from the get-go?

You may ask, what would that experience be like? Well, I want you to imagine that you are once again, a child in September 1998. You've just tuned into Cartoon Network, and saw a new show airing - called Dragon Ball. You sit down and watch, and you're amazed. The fighting looks cool, you're enjoying the jazz orchestral music, and the voice acting is pretty damn good. You immediately fall in love with this show, and keep watching. The days turn to weeks, weeks to months, and months to years, as the show continues on, you love it even more and watch it all the way to the end. Then, a bit after the show ends, a sequel is announced called Dragon Ball Z. You watch Z and enjoy it even more than you enjoyed Dragon Ball. It's longer too, which is a plus. You watch this show for years too and go all the way to the end. Then, the final sequel to Dragon Ball is announced, called Dragon Ball GT. You watch the 64 episodes, and then...that's the end of the anime. You've enjoyed this anime franchise and have grown up with it, and now, thanks to it, you've found a new love for anime - particularly Shōnen.

Now, the ideal version of this would just be FUNi hiring the DB Kai cast (Chris Ayres, Sean Schemmel, Christopher Sabat, Colleen Clinkenbeard, Sonny Strait, Justin Cook, Phil Parsons, etc.) and dubbing the show without the help of Saban or Ocean Studios, not changing the music, keeping the names + pronunciation the same, and hiring Steve Simmons to translate the scripts. The realistic version would only be hiring Steve Simmons as a translator. I know that I enjoyed Dragon Ball Kai 1.0 when I saw it on Adult Swim in 2019, and I'm pretty sure that 90s kids would've liked this version of Dragon Ball Z too.


*Note: Ideally, kid Goku would still be voiced by Stephanie Nadolny and Bulma in the original DB would still be voiced by Tiffany Vollmer, and when they go into Z, then it would transition into the Kai voices, and it could be explained by Bulma growing up.

*Second Note: I don't know if I would want it to air 5 episodes a week or airing 1 episode per week every Wednesday for 10 years. You decide if you'd like that.
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Re: To the People who Watched Dragon Ball on Toonami...

Post by MrSatan2099 » Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:06 pm

I certainly think it would have progressed more naturally here if that had been the case. We could have avoided a lot of missteps and conjecture if we had gotten it all in order.

I guess the big question is, would it have been successful with the Toomami audience? Obviously Funimation tried it in 95 and we all know how that went. Would it have been different on Toomami Instead of syndication? Hard to say. I can remember reading about the original Dragon Ball for the first time when I finally had internet access in late 99 (in the middle of the Freeza saga) and immediately wanted to see all of it. I felt like it was something that I had missed out on, and I was concerned we might not ever get it here in the states.

Of course we did and at that point I was more concerned with watching it than Z, and to this day it's my favorite of all the shows. Now, in retrospect did I immediately cling to it 100% on it's own merit, or was I fascinated by the fact the fact that it was this "lost" back story to the characters I had grown to love? I would certainly like to that I would have loved the story from start to finish in sequence, but obviously I'll never know. When my kids were old enough to start watching it we watched it straight through in sequence, and they loved it. I've explained to my 10 year old son before that we had Dragon Ball Z first when I was a kid and he thinks that's just the wildest thing.

I'm 34 and I think to a lot of people in my age range that's such a major defining characteristic of the series for them. It's a big conundrum for some people whether they "need" to watch the original Dragon Ball or not, while newer fans don't even seem to think there's any rational in skipping it.

I'm often fascinated by the what-ifs of the franchise coming to the US. What if the 95 dub of Dragon Ball had been a huge success and we were finished with all three shows by 2000? What if the voice cast hadn't changed? Things could have been very different. Lots of major Japanese franchises have never been able to find consistent mainstream success here, and Dragon Ball could have easily been one of them. Long winded response haha, but to answer the question, would I have preferred to see it all in sequence? I truly believe I would have, but then who knows. Maybe I wouldn't have stuck with it for this long. The way I got to experience it back then was full of mystery and rumor, and that makes it extra fascinating.

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Re: To the People who Watched Dragon Ball on Toonami...

Post by chitsunameru » Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:12 pm

Maybe, but it would have been a completely different experience there is no way around that.

I don't just mean because dragon ball itself had tried and failed twice to get off the ground in the usa. But the marketing would have been so different we would have seen it differently mentally at the time.

Z got off the ground the way it did(not at all just the way it did don't miss understand me, trolls) because of the marketing. Marketed as the biggest action show to ever throw a punch. And with it's content it worked. I don't think that would have worked for dragon ball. Even toonami marketed it as a whimsical comedy adventure.

I do enjoy og dragon ball more, but the marketing for z hit just perfectly to get the English world finally get the entire thing more than 13 episodes and a movie or 5 episodes and twoish movies.

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Re: To the People who Watched Dragon Ball on Toonami...

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:51 pm

So we're not only pretending that Dragon Ball came first and aired on Cartoon Network starting the fall of 1998 we also are pretending Funimation didn't have to go through the growing pains they had to and came out the gate with Kai level scripts, hiring a high profile fan to do translations, weren't tempted to whitewash the show with wall to wall music that would appeal to American kids, and also released an uncut version on home video instead of hemming and hawwing for 4 ish years at even doing such a thing. And that's not even going into how many of the Funi voices still evolved from imitating the Ocean voices.

But I'll play. I do think I would enjoy it and I think most kids would have too. The idea that Dragon Ball couldn't succeed without Z is a silly notion. "It failed twice" is a misleading half truth. The Harmony Gold dub only ran 5 episodes in a few cities and aired at 3pm on weekdays no less. I think it can be inferred Harmony Gold abandoned the project before they even aired it (because of the content most likely) and just sold what they had to a few local stations to make back some of the losses. And Funimation's first attempt with BLT and Seagull Entertainment only ran for half a season and has worse timeslots than what Z got from Saban and less coverage across the nation. It's not like Dragon Ball Z was a smashing success after its first 13 episodes in 1996. Even with its comparive success as the number one boys action cartoon in syndication, Dragon Ball Z didn't explode in popularity until it started airing in the after-school timeslot on Toonami.

So in an AU where Dragon Ball starts off airing on Cartoon Network around 430-530 alongside Sailor Moon and Thundercats and Reboot I do think it would have became a pretty big hit. And I think I would have gotten into at some point.

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Re: To the People who Watched Dragon Ball on Toonami...

Post by TheGreatness25 » Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:18 pm

I liked Dragon Ball Z a couple of years before it was on Toonami. At that time, I didn't know that anything about the presentation was off. I happily hummed the instrumental to Rock the Dragon and imagined the characters voices as the Ocean cast. Translated shows was not a foreign concept to me (coming from a foreign country where as a small child, I knew that they took American shows and translated them into that language), but I never put any thought into where the series originated from (very likely didn't care).

Would I like the series if it ran directly through from Dragon Ball through Z with a seasoned version of the Funimation dub? Probably, but who can say for sure? The era that I got into the series was when Batman The Animated Series, Power Rangers, Animaniacs, Tiny Toons, and those kinds of shows were on TV. Dragon Ball Z was a totally different concept, but I think that Dragon Ball is different enough to have caught my attention too.

I think that my first exposure to Dragon Ball Z happened in a point where I didn't care about accuracy, etc. I would've probably liked the series enough to watch consistently (I've consistently watched much, much worse, after all).

If I'm to pretend that I never had exposure at that point in my life and my first exposure was in 1998 when DBZ came to Toonami, it's a little harder to say, if I'm being honest. I didn't care to watch Gundam Wing, Ronin Warriors, or Yu Yu Hakusho on Toonami (though, now, I love Yu Yu Hakusho). Maybe I wasn't an anime fan at that point in my life, but loved DBZ because of my prior exposure to it.

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Re: To the People who Watched Dragon Ball on Toonami...

Post by Dr. Casey » Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:55 pm

I think that I would have loved Dragon Ball and held the same general feelings on it regardless of what variables are tweaked. If you gave me a VHS collection of the original Dragon Ball series subtitled when I was four years old, I would have loved the bright colors, the beautiful scenery, enjoyed the fighting and action, and had a fondness for the characters even though I couldn't read yet. If you gave me a VHS collection of Dragon Ball and DBZ when I was eight years old immediately after the anime finished, whether dubbed or subbed, I would love both series but have a small preference for Z. If you gave me the original series, Z, and GT when I was 10, I would love the former two but feel that something was 'off' with GT and not particularly enjoy it much. I think I'm locked into "really like OG and Z, don't care much for GT" regardless of the ages. Maybe I'd enjoy the three equally if I was four years old or something since toddler brains are weird and work on a completely different dreamlike level, but by 5/6 I think my general sentiments towards all three of the original anime would be overwhelmingly the same as my older self's.
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Re: To the People who Watched Dragon Ball on Toonami...

Post by MuscleRobo » Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:10 pm

I had a real aversion to kid heroes so honestly the original show might've been a harder sell than Z.

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Re: To the People who Watched Dragon Ball on Toonami...

Post by Dbzfan94 » Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:10 am

Yeah I would’ve been fine with that.

Nowadays in my rewatches I always do DB-Z-GT anyway

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Re: To the People who Watched Dragon Ball on Toonami...

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:42 am

MuscleRobo wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:10 pm I had a real aversion to kid heroes so honestly the original show might've been a harder sell than Z.
I found the problem with most kid heroes in kid shows is there was always the "I'm so much smarter and more competent than any of the adults and also I'm all about the sassy mouth" thing that Dragon Ball avoided. Although my God did Funimation try to force the sassy kid hero trope on Goku a few times. Especially in those first 13 episodes.

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Re: To the People who Watched Dragon Ball on Toonami...

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:01 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:42 am
MuscleRobo wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:10 pm I had a real aversion to kid heroes so honestly the original show might've been a harder sell than Z.
I found the problem with most kid heroes in kid shows is there was always the "I'm so much smarter and more competent than any of the adults and also I'm all about the sassy mouth" thing that Dragon Ball avoided.
This trope never made sense to me. It doesn't make any sense that a child is smarter and more useful than all of the adults (Though there are exceptions)
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Re: To the People who Watched Dragon Ball on Toonami...

Post by MuscleRobo » Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:41 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:42 am
MuscleRobo wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:10 pm I had a real aversion to kid heroes so honestly the original show might've been a harder sell than Z.
I found the problem with most kid heroes in kid shows is there was always the "I'm so much smarter and more competent than any of the adults and also I'm all about the sassy mouth" thing that Dragon Ball avoided. Although my God did Funimation try to force the sassy kid hero trope on Goku a few times. Especially in those first 13 episodes.
True, again it's impossible for me to wonder how eight year old me would've received DB vs DBZ but I do remember in other shows finding the kid hero annoying. For example when Power Rangers added a child ranger in the "Turbo" series I remember being annoyed; even if the kid was my age! :lol:

Although, one of the first things I ever bought online was an action figure from the "Z Store" and I somehow got a tape with a few DB episodes on it. I remember liking what I saw but it was Oozaru Goku destroying Pilaf's palace so certainly more actiony than a lot of other parts near the beginning. I was a little older and had been hooked on DBZ though by that point.

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Re: To the People who Watched Dragon Ball on Toonami...

Post by ABED » Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:21 pm

FPSSJ4_Goku wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:01 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:42 am
MuscleRobo wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:10 pm I had a real aversion to kid heroes so honestly the original show might've been a harder sell than Z.
I found the problem with most kid heroes in kid shows is there was always the "I'm so much smarter and more competent than any of the adults and also I'm all about the sassy mouth" thing that Dragon Ball avoided.
This trope never made sense to me. It doesn't make any sense that a child is smarter and more useful than all of the adults (Though there are exceptions)
The trick isn't to make them smarter, it's to give them a logic that perhaps adults with more experience overlooked.

To answer the thread question, yes, I would've watched, and like most shows back then, it likely would've gained an audience overtime. I'm certain would've found its biggest audience from the Saiyan through the Cell arc.

For anyone thinking that keeping the original score intact could've been a turnoff, I point them towards kids my generation loving older cartoons on CN and watching old Godzilla movies.
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Re: To the People who Watched Dragon Ball on Toonami...

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:08 pm

MuscleRobo wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:41 pm
True, again it's impossible for me to wonder how eight year old me would've received DB vs DBZ but I do remember in other shows finding the kid hero annoying. For example when Power Rangers added a child ranger in the "Turbo" series I remember being annoyed; even if the kid was my age! :lol:

Although, one of the first things I ever bought online was an action figure from the "Z Store" and I somehow got a tape with a few DB episodes on it. I remember liking what I saw but it was Oozaru Goku destroying Pilaf's palace so certainly more actiony than a lot of other parts near the beginning. I was a little older and had been hooked on DBZ though by that point.
Networks seem to think that shoehorning kid characters into kids' shows is a quick solution but it's never been a requirement, kids can relate to adult characters just fine.

Something that's always rubbed me the wrong way about Goten and Trunks, especially when they're in starring roles in the movies, is that they are just "kid-appeal" characters for the target shonen demographic. They're just unbearable in the Broly sequels where their whole thing is just "haha mischievous boyish antics" and acting like morons. There's only so much of that I can take. Gohan had much more to his character than just being a kid, and to build on what ABED said, he exhibited a different kind of intelligence that made him believably useful. Same with Goku himself.

Anyway, what's weird is that I've occasionally seen Japanese fans hating on Dragon Ball's score for being too "old-fashioned" and sounding too much like an old samurai movie. Maybe it's a case of cultural overexposure to that style of music, but I'm sure Western fans would've loved it if it were kept.

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Re: To the People who Watched Dragon Ball on Toonami...

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:32 am

ABED wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:21 pm

For anyone thinking that keeping the original score intact could've been a turnoff, I point them towards kids my generation loving older cartoons on CN and watching old Godzilla movies.
I point to Dead Zone and World Strongest airing multiple times on Toonami with the original Japanese music intact, Gohan insert song included, to no negative reaction.

Or the original Dragon Ball dub leaving the music alone.


Fans weren't turned off by the original score they were turned off by not hearing the Faulconer music where they had grown accustomed to hearing it.

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Re: To the People who Watched Dragon Ball on Toonami...

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:59 am

You all seem to remember Toonami DBZ way differently than I do.

My biggest memory was them rerunning Raditz to Ginyu endlessly for forever, the voices being shitty when they got back, the Freeza fight lasting forever, and capping it all off was the Garlic Junior arc.

I didn't get back into DB after that until they started airing the otherworld tournament years later, when they had like 4 new episodes every Saturday.
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Re: To the People who Watched Dragon Ball on Toonami...

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Thu Oct 06, 2022 1:54 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:32 am
ABED wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:21 pm

For anyone thinking that keeping the original score intact could've been a turnoff, I point them towards kids my generation loving older cartoons on CN and watching old Godzilla movies.
I point to Dead Zone and World Strongest airing multiple times on Toonami with the original Japanese music intact, Gohan insert song included, to no negative reaction.

Or the original Dragon Ball dub leaving the music alone.


Fans weren't turned off by the original score they were turned off by not hearing the Faulconer music where they had grown accustomed to hearing it.
Yup, in the UK and Irish broadcasts we had the original Japanese score for both original Dragon Ball and GT. OG Dragon Ball movies 1-3, Z movies 1-9 and the 3 TV specials all aired with Kikuchi or Tokunaga too. Again no issues, only thing that made any eyes roll was the Big Green cast for the movies and specials.

We didn't have the Faulconer score on air as long as the US did (or even Canada) as it was only shown for the Freeza, Garlic Junior and Fusion sagas, but I've never heard complaints about any of the various scores, even for the Kikuchi placement (which much of this site argue is badly placed) when Kai aired on Kix. Kids don't care, they just love the action and colourful characters.
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